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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > sending our MBPs back ( paired with TheSpaz's Grainy MBP topic)

sending our MBPs back ( paired with TheSpaz's Grainy MBP topic)
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outthere
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Nov 14, 2006, 03:43 PM
 
first, thanks to thespaz for bringing the whole issue up: http://forums.macnn.com/69/powerbook...-grainy-matte/
ok guys,
the problem is in the air, so it's time to talk about the the solution here.
let me again make it clear, all the new MBPs (both matte and glossy) are shipped with grainy look displays, and we all can;t do nothing about it. I;ve been desperately looking for possible "fixit", but there's no hope so far.
so whatever you are going to do (sending back, keep it, or esle,) please post it here, your experience will help others make their best choice.
many thanks:
un jour,
     
atc ben
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Nov 14, 2006, 05:03 PM
 
I'm keeping mine. To me, this really isn't that huge of a deal. (I understand that not everyone sees it this way, that's why I underlined "To me.") I realized this today, when a colleague sat down next to me and opened up his ACER, took a look at my MBP and said, "Man, that's a nice display. Is that a Mac?" I said, "yes," and pointed out the sparkle issue to him and he looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears.

These are nice machines people!
-Ben- 15" Macbook Pro 2.33, 2GB RAM, 160HD, Matte
My
     
outthere  (op)
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Nov 14, 2006, 05:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by atc ben View Post
I'm keeping mine. To me, this really isn't that huge of a deal. (I understand that not everyone sees it this way, that's why I underlined "To me.") I realized this today, when a colleague sat down next to me and opened up his ACER, took a look at my MBP and said, "Man, that's a nice display. Is that a Mac?" I said, "yes," and pointed out the sparkle issue to him and he looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears.

These are nice machines people!
well, apple is known for their superb graphic quality, but now im worrying about that
un jour,
     
enola
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Nov 14, 2006, 06:10 PM
 
I'm totally keeping mine. I just don't see what you guys are seeing. I'm not discounting anyone's personal experience with this. Mine is that I do not perceive this sparkly screen. I guess I'm just not particularly sensitive to it.
     
jlgrandam
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Nov 14, 2006, 06:25 PM
 
I also can't see what you are talking about on my C2D 15" MBP.
12.1" Powerbook G4
     
SurfSkateJeep
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Nov 14, 2006, 06:47 PM
 
my screen looks fine, its the matte finish and its clearer then any screen ive ever had. even my moms desktop 19 inch LCD
     
glnk4
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Nov 15, 2006, 02:51 AM
 
I own a PB 17" 1GHz and I use a PB 17 1.67GHz at work. The decrease in the quality of the screen is noticeable even on the 1.67 PB. The 1GHz PB has in my opinion the finest quality screen in a laptop. I have been awaiting the arrival of the C2D 17" MBP, and I'm ready to purchase but I won't until apple addresses the screen's quality issue.
( Last edited by glnk4; Nov 15, 2006 at 02:59 AM. )
     
iomatic
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Nov 15, 2006, 04:05 AM
 
Opposite for me. Way better quality on my C2D than the PB1.67. Also, realize most people are going to come here to complain.
     
mrmister
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Nov 15, 2006, 04:11 AM
 
I agree--my MBP is a big improvement over my PowerBook.
     
MartyMcSly
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Nov 15, 2006, 05:49 AM
 
I just received my C2D MBP Glossy from shanghai yesterday, I definately saw this issue on the matte screens at the store (which prompted me to go for the glossy). I have been watching these 'grain' threads avidly, convinced that I'd experience the same problems on my glossy MBP. I've only had it less than a day - but the issue with grain I saw on the matte display just isn't present on this glossy one (praise be to the loooorrd, LOL). Anyway, I suggest you compare your matte grainy ones again with some of the C2D glossy ones. I have a very sensitive eye to these kind of issues as I work in the CGI VFX film industry. Currently I am not seeing this issue at all. I've yet to 'stress' test this, but upon looking at pure white, pure black and gradients - its just not present.
     
serranot
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Nov 15, 2006, 07:30 AM
 
Just purchased a 2.33 matte. No idea what this issue is. Mine looks fine.
T-bob
     
ghporter
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Nov 15, 2006, 10:16 AM
 
My display looks fine. there's nothing wrong with it. I keep gunk off the screen so I don't get any "sparkle," and I sit far enough away that I don't see any grain at all-I had to get REALLY close to see it in the first place.

Demanding that Apple do something about a non-problem is silly. If you want a finer-grained display, then buy one. Don't complain that Apple provided the display resolution they claim. And note that there is NO WAY to avoid "grain" in a video display, because the picture is made up of discrete pixels (or phosphors on a CRT).

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
PER3
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Nov 15, 2006, 12:41 PM
 
It's so subjective.

I once changed my boss's PC display (which I work on sometimes) from large fuzzy text at the wrong resolution, to small fine clear text on a much larger workspace. When I asked her if she liked the improvement, she said she didn't notice any difference.

Maybe all of the screens do show this "defect", but some people don't register, while others feel bugs crawling under their skin when they look at it.

I'm putting off my purchase until I see one in the flesh (or acrylic, or whatever).
     
TheSpaz
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Nov 15, 2006, 12:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
My display looks fine. there's nothing wrong with it. I keep gunk off the screen so I don't get any "sparkle," and I sit far enough away that I don't see any grain at all-I had to get REALLY close to see it in the first place.

Demanding that Apple do something about a non-problem is silly. If you want a finer-grained display, then buy one. Don't complain that Apple provided the display resolution they claim. And note that there is NO WAY to avoid "grain" in a video display, because the picture is made up of discrete pixels (or phosphors on a CRT).
You know what I'm thinking? Maybe Apple's been using different display manufacturers and I got a crappy one but, some people got better ones. I can't say they're "all" the same intensity because I just do not know.
     
outthere  (op)
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Nov 15, 2006, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by MartyMcSly View Post
I just received my C2D MBP Glossy from shanghai yesterday, I definately saw this issue on the matte screens at the store (which prompted me to go for the glossy). I have been watching these 'grain' threads avidly, convinced that I'd experience the same problems on my glossy MBP. I've only had it less than a day - but the issue with grain I saw on the matte display just isn't present on this glossy one (praise be to the loooorrd, LOL). Anyway, I suggest you compare your matte grainy ones again with some of the C2D glossy ones. I have a very sensitive eye to these kind of issues as I work in the CGI VFX film industry. Currently I am not seeing this issue at all. I've yet to 'stress' test this, but upon looking at pure white, pure black and gradients - its just not present.
martymcsly,
try this, turn all the light out (make sure there's no reflective light on your screen,) then take a look at a white background, you will see.
un jour,
     
TheSpaz
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Nov 15, 2006, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by outthere View Post
martymcsly,
try this, turn all the light out (make sure there's no reflective light on your screen,) then take a look at a white background, you will see.
No... maybe he's right. All we can do is trust his eyes. I'm thinking that some people simply do NOT have this issue, while others might have it very slightly where it's not as noticeable (such as on the 17" MBP) and some people (like me) have it really bad and can't stand the sight of it.
     
MartyMcSly
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Nov 15, 2006, 02:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by outthere View Post
martymcsly,
try this, turn all the light out (make sure there's no reflective light on your screen,) then take a look at a white background, you will see.
These are the exact conditions I tested the screen under. Unfortunately I have to do most of my work in a dark room. I sampled all levels of screen brightness and looked at solid black, solid white and various gradients. My book seems fine so far. Again, I'm going to scrutinise it a bit more tonight and get some second opinions from colleagues etc. I'll be sure to report back.
     
outthere  (op)
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Nov 15, 2006, 02:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by MartyMcSly View Post
These are the exact conditions I tested the screen under. Unfortunately I have to do most of my work in a dark room. I sampled all levels of screen brightness and looked at solid black, solid white and various gradients. My book seems fine so far. Again, I'm going to scrutinise it a bit more tonight and get some second opinions from colleagues etc. I'll be sure to report back.
my bad, i;ve been testing all the display MBPs at apple stores, and my friends' ones too, i was convinced that they all have the same issue., just like thespaz stated earlier, some of them are worse than the others. but i guess i was wrong then.
however, i still believe that there are bunch of MBPs outthere have this problem, i mean lot of them
un jour,
     
StiZeven
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Nov 15, 2006, 03:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
My display looks fine. there's nothing wrong with it. I keep gunk off the screen so I don't get any "sparkle," and I sit far enough away that I don't see any grain at all-I had to get REALLY close to see it in the first place.

Demanding that Apple do something about a non-problem is silly. If you want a finer-grained display, then buy one. Don't complain that Apple provided the display resolution they claim. And note that there is NO WAY to avoid "grain" in a video display, because the picture is made up of discrete pixels (or phosphors on a CRT).
It appears to me that you still don't understand what the issue at hand is. I also don't think you know what everyone is actually concerned about, because I doubt you'd be making such comments in threads with very specific issues posted. This is NOT a resolution issue and sparkle and grain is NOT an inherent problem or default feature found in all LCD panels.

Also, what exactly does 'screen gunk' have to with the grain/sparkle issue? You can wipe your screen all day and night, and it won't do anything. Sort of like trying to rub the haze out of frosted glass - it's not going to happen.

Just because this is a non-problem for you doesn't make it a 'silly' problem for someone else. There *are* high-quality displays out there that are clear and smooth at VERY high resolutions but unfortunately, Apple simply isn't using them (at least not in this batch). Or, perhaps your display happens to be a better one and you just don't see what the rest of us are seeing.

Also, why do people go on and on about how high these new MBP resolutions are when really they aren't that high at all? Correct if I am wrong, but aren't the new resolutions merely WSXGA? I've seen Sony VAIOs with very high resolution (WUXGA) 17" displays with GORGEOUS displays that have silky smooth bright whites, deep blacks, vibrant colors and ZERO sparkle or grain.

If Apple wants to sell a $2500 'Pro' Portable, they'd better make sure that the LCD display is at LEAST as good as the one in their 'budget' portable line. I do not (and did not) tolerate shite displays from Dell, so I am certainly not going to tolerate from Apple (who happens to command a premium for their pro lines).
     
outthere  (op)
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Nov 15, 2006, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by StiZeven View Post
It appears to me that you still don't understand what the issue at hand is. I also don't think you know what everyone is actually concerned about, because I doubt you'd be making such comments in threads with very specific issues posted. This is NOT a resolution issue and sparkle and grain is NOT an inherent problem or default feature found in all LCD panels.

Also, what exactly does 'screen gunk' have to with the grain/sparkle issue? You can wipe your screen all day and night, and it won't do anything. Sort of like trying to rub the haze out of frosted glass - it's not going to happen.

Just because this is a non-problem for you doesn't make it a 'silly' problem for someone else. There *are* high-quality displays out there that are clear and smooth at VERY high resolutions but unfortunately, Apple simply isn't using them (at least not in this batch). Or, perhaps your display happens to be a better one and you just don't see what the rest of us are seeing.

Also, why do people go on and on about how high these new MBP resolutions are when really they aren't that high at all? Correct if I am wrong, but aren't the new resolutions merely WSXGA? I've seen Sony VAIOs with very high resolution (WUXGA) 17" displays with GORGEOUS displays that have silky smooth bright whites, deep blacks, vibrant colors and ZERO sparkle or grain.

If Apple wants to sell a $2500 'Pro' Portable, they'd better make sure that the LCD display is at LEAST as good as the one in their 'budget' portable line. I do not (and did not) tolerate shite displays from Dell, so I am certainly not going to tolerate from Apple (who happens to command a premium for their pro lines).

StiZeven,
i totally agree with you, at every point
un jour,
     
TheSpaz
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Nov 15, 2006, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by outthere View Post
StiZeven,
i totally agree with you, at every point
Me too!
     
LfGrdMike
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Nov 15, 2006, 04:20 PM
 
Don't notice it. Not saying anyone is wrong but I just don't see it on mine.
MacBook Pro 15" Rev B | 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo | 2GB Mem | 160GB HD | Display 15 Glossy Widescreen Display
iPod Mini Green | 35 gigs of music :-)
HP DV1040us Laptop | 1.6 Pentium M | 1GB RAM | Centrino
     
Nyuni
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Nov 15, 2006, 05:49 PM
 
I see the issue on my matte MBP, but it's so minute that I don't notice it unless I'm specifically looking for it. I have to say the screen is one of the brightest and clearest I've ever seen in a portable, and this phenomenon is one that I've seen with other LCDs before. For me, it's not worth the time without the machine to try to take it back, when the odds are that it's just how this model of screen is.
The Quintessential Featherhead.
     
TheSpaz
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Nov 15, 2006, 11:24 PM
 
Hello! I'm at the Apple Store! Here's my story.

I returned my MacBook Pro but, they insisted that I pay the restocking fee... Which is fine, I figured I would have to anyway.

The screens I looked at:

MacBook Pro 15" - Bad Grain, very visible (like my old MacBook Pro)
MacBook Pro 17" Glossy - Happens to be a Core Duo - Little or no grain
MacBook Pro 17" Matte - Also a Core Duo (for some reason) - Little or no grain
iMac 24" and 30" - Very impressed... Virtually no grain or sparkle at all (love it)
iMac 17" - Not so much... more like the MacBook Pro 17 as far as grain goes.
20" Apple Cinema Display - Little grainy but, the bigger pixels make it look better - Not bad, I wouldn't mind it
24" Apple Cinema - Same as 20"
30" Apple Cinema - Same as 20"
MacBook - Pixel perfect - Whites are pure white - No grain that I could see

On a side note: When I was looking at the 17" MBP CD Matte... I noticed that it was slightly shinier than the newer MacBook Pros with the Matte screens... it reflected more light (it was not glossy) and in my opinion those were some of the smoothest displays in the store (next to the MacBooks). The weird thing is... those MacBook Pro 17" models were not the Core 2 Duo... why does Apple even have those out on display? This makes me believe that they were using a different type of screen for the previous line of MacBook Pros (at least for the 17").
     
outthere  (op)
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Nov 16, 2006, 12:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by TheSpaz View Post
Hello! I'm at the Apple Store! Here's my story.

I returned my MacBook Pro but, they insisted that I pay the restocking fee... Which is fine, I figured I would have to anyway.

The screens I looked at:

MacBook Pro 15" - Bad Grain, very visible (like my old MacBook Pro)
MacBook Pro 17" Glossy - Happens to be a Core Duo - Little or no grain
MacBook Pro 17" Matte - Also a Core Duo (for some reason) - Little or no grain
iMac 24" and 30" - Very impressed... Virtually no grain or sparkle at all (love it)
iMac 17" - Not so much... more like the MacBook Pro 17 as far as grain goes.
20" Apple Cinema Display - Little grainy but, the bigger pixels make it look better - Not bad, I wouldn't mind it
24" Apple Cinema - Same as 20"
30" Apple Cinema - Same as 20"
MacBook - Pixel perfect - Whites are pure white - No grain that I could see

On a side note: When I was looking at the 17" MBP CD Matte... I noticed that it was slightly shinier than the newer MacBook Pros with the Matte screens... it reflected more light (it was not glossy) and in my opinion those were some of the smoothest displays in the store (next to the MacBooks). The weird thing is... those MacBook Pro 17" models were not the Core 2 Duo... why does Apple even have those out on display? This makes me believe that they were using a different type of screen for the previous line of MacBook Pros (at least for the 17").
thespaz, appreciate all your posts,
so it's it, just like we've been discussing here, we now have to deal with it: MBP with grainy display or no MBP.
i 've decided to keep mine, the reason is that i really need a laptop now and there's no other thing out there that i could go with, so...
hope u guys keep this thread posted so others could make their best decison
un jour,
     
TheSpaz
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Nov 16, 2006, 12:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by outthere View Post
thespaz, appreciate all your posts,
so it's it, just like we've been discussing here, we now have to deal with it: MBP with grainy display or no MBP.
i 've decided to keep mine, the reason is that i really need a laptop now and there's no other thing out there that i could go with, so...
hope u guys keep this thread posted so others could make their best decison
My recommendation for anyone looking for a nice Mac portable... get a 17" MBP (higher resolution display and a lot cleaner looking than the 15")
     
justinkim
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Nov 16, 2006, 08:46 PM
 
The display on my 15" C2D looks at least as good as the one on my old 1.67 PB and is a heck of a lot brighter. No complaints here.
     
   
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