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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Prediction: Israel is attacked in the next 1.5 years? No, it's Paris, France.

Prediction: Israel is attacked in the next 1.5 years? No, it's Paris, France. (Page 4)
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OAW
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Nov 16, 2015, 08:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I was exaggerating, for Christ's sake (why he hasn't continued to bomb them is a ****ing mystery though, since there's always several 1000 ISIS fighters standing around on any given day), also he's specific avoided the city center, which is absurd.
::::: sigh ::::::

Has it ever occurred to you that neither the Obama Administration nor the other Western powers actually WANT to eradicate ISIS? Just like they don't actually WANT the Assad regime to fall? A strategic stalemate serves Western interests by costing Russian and Iran and Hezbollah blood and treasure to prop up the Assad regime. And it placates the Sunni regimes in the region who are increasingly concerned about a US foreign policy "pivot to Asia" and away from Middle East that might leave them vulnerable to Shiite Iran. Now the prevailing calculus may very well change now that ISIS has demonstrated a capability to cause mass carnage outside of the Middle East. And so too may the strategy. It's one thing when ISIS was killing other Arabs. It's quite another when westerners start getting killed while sipping on a latte in a Parisian cafe. So we shall see just how aggressive the Western powers become towards ISIS in light of this terrorist attack.

But who are we kidding? A "nuanced" understanding of foreign policy isn't something I expect you to grasp. "Level the city of Raqqa! Turn it into sparking lot!" and similar jingoistic BS is more your speed.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Nov 16, 2015 at 08:20 PM. )
     
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Nov 16, 2015, 09:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Then France must not have received your memo, because they've already started bombing the hell out of them. In fact, they've been able to do something in 2 days that's eluded Obama for years. They can actually locate Raqqa on a map.
I assume you are at least prepared to entertain the possibility that France may not have much of a longer-term plan in place, and that this is largely a show of immediate and forceful response?

We're talking about a solution here. You would have to make an extremely persuasive argument to convince me that carpet bombing Raqqa will be any more effective than firebombing was against the Vietnamese.

Much like Socialist Vietnam, IS simply does not have much of a long-term future. Its unique brand of medieval Islam won't and can't last. The problem is that it appears to be much less introverted, at least when it comes to exporting its ideology - making it much harder to wait them out.
     
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Nov 17, 2015, 12:03 AM
 


Sums it up pretty well IMHO
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; Nov 17, 2015 at 12:18 AM. )
     
Chongo
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Nov 17, 2015, 09:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post


Sums it up pretty well IMHO
The Crusades may have ended 400 years ago, but the Jihad has never stopped.




Moderate Islam?

45/47
     
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Nov 17, 2015, 10:43 AM
 
Relatively speaking, wanting people prosecuted as opposed to killed for drawing cartoons of the prophet isn't all that radical. Its not exactly moderate, but at least its non-violent.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Nov 17, 2015, 03:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
::::: sigh ::::::
Defensive much? You honestly thought I was being literal about Obama's orienteering skills, if anyone has the right to be exasperated it's me, Barbara.

Has it ever occurred to you that neither the Obama Administration nor the other Western powers actually WANT to eradicate ISIS? Just like they don't actually WANT the Assad regime to fall? A strategic stalemate serves Western interests by costing Russian and Iran and Hezbollah blood and treasure to prop up the Assad regime. And it placates the Sunni regimes in the region who are increasingly concerned about a US foreign policy "pivot to Asia" and away from Middle East that might leave them vulnerable to Shiite Iran. Now the prevailing calculus may very well change now that ISIS has demonstrated a capability to cause mass carnage outside of the Middle East. And so too may the strategy. It's one thing when ISIS was killing other Arabs. It's quite another when westerners start getting killed while sipping on a latte in a Parisian cafe. So we shall see just how aggressive the Western powers become towards ISIS in light of this terrorist attack.
Only a fool would think they'd stop at other muslims, would amass such numbers and then settle down, start families, and raise little jihadis of their own. It doesn't work that way. Islam at its core is a virulent religion motivated by a supremacist, Theocratic ideology. When it isn't growing, it's dying, at least in their perception. I'd like to think this administration was simply scared, but I think it's more likely to be more Progressive idiocy run amuk, believing these little monsters are just "marginalized victims who need to be shown understanding, compassion, and inclusion". Ask Swedish citizens how they feel now, after adopting such policies:

Swedish Foreign Minister claims they 'face collapse' over refugee influx | Daily Mail Online
Sweden Opened Its Doors To Muslim Immigration, Today It’s The Rape Capital Of The West. Japan Didn’t. | The Daily Caller
Swedish city 'is largest recruiting ground for Isis' - The Local
Sweden on the way to self-destruction? - Europe - News - Arutz Sheva

If allowed to continue at their current pace, democracy will die in many European countries. Combine the terror attacks with open door policies and it isn't so much a migration as it is an invasion, a very clever invasion targeting the Left's bleeding hearts.
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Nov 17, 2015, 03:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Relatively speaking, wanting people prosecuted as opposed to killed for drawing cartoons of the prophet isn't all that radical. Its not exactly moderate, but at least its non-violent.
Either way it's still barbaric. Muhammad wasn't a prophet, he was a pedophilic mass murderer, and capitulating to his followers by limiting your own freedom of expression is completely unacceptable. The day you can't legally publish satire is the day your democracy is right and truly ****ed.

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Nov 17, 2015, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Shortcut View Post
You would have to make an extremely persuasive argument to convince me that carpet bombing Raqqa will be any more effective than firebombing was against the Vietnamese.
It was completely effective, right up until we backed down due to risking all-out war with China.
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Nov 17, 2015, 05:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Ask Swedish citizens how they feel now, after adopting such policies:
Well, since you asked... Still think that it's right to receive them. Please note that I would prefer if we helped more in areas closer to the conflict zone, because then the refugees wouldn't have to flee across a stormy Mediterranean, and we'd also get more for our money as it is much cheaper to receive them there, but by the time that they are here on our borders, the humane thing is to take them in and do the best we can. I wish the EU would share the burden more evenly, and I think it should, but still - when they are here and have nowhere else to go, it is right to take them in.

Friendly advice: Beware of headlines at Daily Mail. What she actually says in the article is if the current influx of refugees is extrapolated into infinity, the system will collapse eventually. Not that it collapses tomorrow. She is also saying it in a UK paper to try to build opinion for a common EU solution.

This one shows up every now and then, and is a result of poor translations. The statistics are for a group of crimes, called "sexual offenses", which includes rape but consists of many other things as well. The reason for the increase from the nineties and on is mainly that solicitation was made illegal, and that crime shows up in the same group. A later bump comes from a change in the definitions of rape from 2005. We currently have a quite wide definition of the word, something I'd thought an experienced Internet debater would know about from the Assange case.

Recent stats are here (in Swedish):

Våldtäkt och sexualbrott - Brå [NS4 version]

(also: that piece is absolutely terrible. Sweden "opened its doors" to immigrants from North Africa in the seventies, and this somehow shows up in stats 20-30 years later? What even happened in the seventies? We had more immigration in the years before that, and most immigration in the seventies and eighties was from Finland - not precisely a muslim country)

That piece is the best of the links you have here. For some reason authorities are lenient with people who have gone down to Syria and come back, for which they have been roundly criticized. The claims that there are 120 fighters from Gothenburg all come from that one guy, Ulf Boström, and he has never "showed his work". Since he has been trying to raise awareness locally with more reasonable-sounding numbers, I suspect that he has exaggerated his numbers to try to get anyone to listen.

Heh. Israeli papers have been printing things like that ever since Sweden announced that it would recognize Palestine as a sovereign state about a year ago. The first few months they were quoted for comedic effect on the funny pages, but by now nobody even cares. That piece has so many flaws that I won't number them all, but let me pick one: The crime "denigration of ethnic groups" that is referred to in the text is more closely translated as "inciting of violence", and is a law from the forties that was mainly used to ban showing nazi symbols. Not something Israeli papers usually complain too much about.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
If allowed to continue at their current pace, democracy will die in many European countries. Combine the terror attacks with open door policies and it isn't so much a migration as it is an invasion, a very clever invasion targeting the Left's bleeding hearts.
Right now I'm more worried about the effect of gerrymandering and unlimited donations are having on US politics, but... The main effect that the increased immigration has had is the rise of an extreme rightwing party, and of a few crazies from that side trying to kill people. One insane person attacked a school with a sword a couple of months back - as good an argument for gun control as I have ever seen, because I don't think he would have settled for a sword if he could get an assault rifle. I have many issues with how my country is run, but that our democracy is under threat? Nope.
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Nov 17, 2015, 05:49 PM
 
Yes, I've noticed how many on the Left in Sweden are downplaying this, ignoring the; dramatically increased incidents of rape (overall crime, really), overburdening of social support systems, infringement upon free speech (it's now illegal to post a picture of Muhammad), all with a smile on their blonde-haired, blue-eyed faces. While you're right that in the immediate future you'll only have a further escalation of the same (rape, unrest, and financial decline), when Muslims do win your general elections (tracking their much higher birth rates, their immigration numbers, and 99% voter turnout, it's inevitable) do you believe Sweden will remain a liberal state? That you won't become an Islamic caliphate, be held accountable under Shariah law, and be required to convert to Islam or be designated as dhimmi, with far fewer rights and privileges than Muslim citizens? They've already had the crosses removed removed from your churches and limited your right to protest.

You need a resurgence of the Right in your country, otherwise you'll eventually lose it entirely.
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Nov 17, 2015, 06:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You need a resurgence of the Right in your country, otherwise you'll eventually lose it entirely.
Not surprised you would say that at all.

Neo-Nazi rallies and PR activities in Sweden, including putting up stickers, have rocketed by 20 percent in the last three years, reaching record heights, despite a decline in the number of far-right organizations, the anti-racist Expo Foundation says.

It's an enormous increase. Just in a couple of years, in three years' time, it has almost doubled. We have never seen this many activities before,” Anna-Sofia Quensel, Expo investigator, told Swedish Radio on Tuesday, The Local reported.

In the last year, the number of neo-Nazi activities has risen by 23 percent, from 2,334 in 2013 to 2,864 or seven to eight a day. This comes as the number of neo-Nazi organizations in Sweden has declined in recent years.


“The major part of activities is the spreading of propaganda, meaning sharing flyers, putting up stickers, often by night,” Quensel said.

The official also noted that the activity of the neo-Nazi movements rose especially in the north of the country with the capital, Stockholm, topping the list.

Among the neo-Nazi organizations, the Expo foundation names the National Democrats, the Swedish Resistance Movement and the Party of the Swedes as the main groups today.

The parliamentary general election in Sweden last September was something of a shock to the nation, as the far-right Sweden Democrats party managed to garner the third-highest number of votes after running a virulent anti-immigration campaign.

The Sweden Democrats strictly oppose immigration and integration, believing those policies failed and the Swedish people should not have to bear the burden of what they see as a reckless immigration policy.


Last August, seven people suffered injuries after riot police clashed with anti-fascists at a neo-Nazi rally in Stockholm. Police reported four law enforcement officers needed treatment, along with three civilians. The rally was organized by the Party of Swedes.

The Expo Foundation is a private research foundation established in 1995 with the aim of studying anti-democratic, right-wing extremist and racist tendencies in society. The Expo platform safeguards democracy and freedom of speech against racist, right-wing extremist, anti-Semitic and totalitarian tendencies throughout society. It is not connected to any specific parties or political groups, but cooperates with everyone who shares the foundation's point of view.
Neo-Nazi activity in Sweden doubles in 3 years, anti-racist group says

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Nov 17, 2015, 06:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yes, I've noticed how many on the Left in Sweden are downplaying this,
I don't think I'm Left by Swedish measurements. Somewhere in the center probably.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
ignoring the; dramatically increased incidents of rape (overall crime, really),
I just showed you the stats that that isn't true for rapes. For crimes in general, the number of reported crimes is going up, but slowly, and it has slowed down significantly from the nineties and on (when we last had high immigration).

Brottsutvecklingen - Brå [NS4 version]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
overburdening of social support systems,
They're still way better than yours...

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
infringement upon free speech (it's now illegal to post a picture of Muhammad),
No it's not. It is illegal to incite violence against racial groups, which is indeed a limitation of free speech, but it has been there since the forties (as also mentioned in the last post). Posting pictures of Muhammad is OK - you may be thinking of the cartoon with Muhammad with a bomb in his turban, which was published by a Danish newspaper a number of years ago, but even that wasn't illegal there, and all those pictures have been reprinted in Swedish newspapers.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
all with a smile on their blonde-haired, blue-eyed faces. While you're right that in the immediate future you'll only have a further escalation of the same (rape, unrest, and financial decline),
The rape thing again? I answered that already. You'll have to be a bit more specific about the unrest, and financial decline? We're running a surplus! National debt is down to about 35% of GDP from being over 80% in the nineties. There is honestly a discussion if we should pay it down any further, as our interest rate on some bonds is negative, but it has died down now that there are more urgent things to spend money on.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
when Muslims do win your general elections (tracking their much higher birth rates, their immigration numbers, and 99% voter turnout, it's inevitable)
Voter turnout in immigrant populations is far below average. This is a real problem. Birth rates are higher, but immigration is only high just now, not constantly year over year. Currently 5% of the population are muslims.

Which gets me to the main problem with your reasoning - why would fundamentalist muslims come here in the first place? It's not like we have oil, or the weather is nice or anything. If they like what is going on in Raqqa, why not just... stay? You're portraying this as if it is some sort of massive conspiracy between hundreds of thousands of immigrants, and... why exactly?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
do you believe Sweden will remain a liberal state? That you won't become an Islamic caliphate, be held accountable under Shariah law, and be required to convert to Islam or be designated as dhimmi, with far fewer rights and privileges than Muslim citizens? They've already had the crosses removed removed from your churches and limited your right to protest.
You're quoting that Israeli piece again, I assume? Some context: That church is meant for visiting sailors to pray in, no matter what particular sect they are members of. It is not a regular congregation that follow some specific brand of Christianity, but an ecumenical chapel. They already welcomed muslims, and the proposal (from a specific church which do as they like, it is not a state church or anything) was to make this clear by removing obvious christian symbols. I have to admit I hadn't even heard of this, it has not been local news, but I don't see how the state would dictate to a specific religious congregation how they should decorate their place of worship.

Our right to protest is alive and well. If you are worried about the politician that the Israeli newspaper claimed was banned from protesting, Michael Hess, you'll be happy to learn that the judgement was reversed on appeal.
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Nov 17, 2015, 06:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Defensive much? You honestly thought I was being literal about Obama's orienteering skills, if anyone has the right to be exasperated it's me, Barbara.
I responded to what you wrote. I'm a man of many talents .... but mind reading is not one of them. Specifically, I was addressing this part .... "why he hasn't continued to bomb them is a ****ing mystery though, since there's always several 1000 ISIS fighters standing around on any given day". Were you "exaggerating" about that part too? Or do you just want to play this game of talking dumb sh*t and then when you get called on it with facts you pretend like you were just kidding.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Only a fool would think they'd stop at other muslims, would amass such numbers and then settle down, start families, and raise little jihadis of their own. It doesn't work that way.
And just where exactly did I say anything of the sort? The fact that you even said this dumb sh*t demonstrates that the concept of a strategic stalemate simply eludes you. Or were you just "exaggerating" about this too?

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Nov 17, 2015, 07:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Yes, I'm well aware that you think all people on the Right are Nazis, that and "Racism!" are the only tricks you have.
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Nov 17, 2015, 07:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
I don't think I'm Left by Swedish measurements. Somewhere in the center probably.

I just showed you the stats that that isn't true for rapes. For crimes in general, the number of reported crimes is going up, but slowly, and it has slowed down significantly from the nineties and on (when we last had high immigration).

Brottsutvecklingen - Brå [NS4 version]

They're still way better than yours...

No it's not. It is illegal to incite violence against racial groups, which is indeed a limitation of free speech, but it has been there since the forties (as also mentioned in the last post). Posting pictures of Muhammad is OK - you may be thinking of the cartoon with Muhammad with a bomb in his turban, which was published by a Danish newspaper a number of years ago, but even that wasn't illegal there, and all those pictures have been reprinted in Swedish newspapers.



The rape thing again? I answered that already. You'll have to be a bit more specific about the unrest, and financial decline? We're running a surplus! National debt is down to about 35% of GDP from being over 80% in the nineties. There is honestly a discussion if we should pay it down any further, as our interest rate on some bonds is negative, but it has died down now that there are more urgent things to spend money on.

Voter turnout in immigrant populations is far below average. This is a real problem. Birth rates are higher, but immigration is only high just now, not constantly year over year. Currently 5% of the population are muslims.

Which gets me to the main problem with your reasoning - why would fundamentalist muslims come here in the first place? It's not like we have oil, or the weather is nice or anything. If they like what is going on in Raqqa, why not just... stay? You're portraying this as if it is some sort of massive conspiracy between hundreds of thousands of immigrants, and... why exactly?

You're quoting that Israeli piece again, I assume? Some context: That church is meant for visiting sailors to pray in, no matter what particular sect they are members of. It is not a regular congregation that follow some specific brand of Christianity, but an ecumenical chapel. They already welcomed muslims, and the proposal (from a specific church which do as they like, it is not a state church or anything) was to make this clear by removing obvious christian symbols. I have to admit I hadn't even heard of this, it has not been local news, but I don't see how the state would dictate to a specific religious congregation how they should decorate their place of worship.

Our right to protest is alive and well. If you are worried about the politician that the Israeli newspaper claimed was banned from protesting, Michael Hess, you'll be happy to learn that the judgement was reversed on appeal.
Well, I'm glad all is well then, and Sweden isn't suffering from a case of mass Stockholm Syndrome, that would be too painfully ironic to bear. I'll promptly ignore any future issues reported from there as mere political wrangling. Thanks.
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Nov 17, 2015, 07:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yes, I'm well aware that you think all people on the Right are Nazis, that and "Racism!" are the only tricks you have.
I wasn't saying "all people on the Right are Nazis" in Sweden. I was making the point that your rhetoric closely aligns with those right-wingers who ARE Neo-Nazis.

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Nov 17, 2015, 07:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I responded to what you wrote. I'm a man of many talents .... but mind reading is not one of them. Specifically, I was addressing this part .... "why he hasn't continued to bomb them is a ****ing mystery though, since there's always several 1000 ISIS fighters standing around on any given day". Were you "exaggerating" about that part too? Or do you just want to play this game of talking dumb sh*t and then when you get called on it with facts you pretend like you were just kidding.
No I wasn't joking about that, now that you ask, it was poor judgement from a terrible leader. Since an estimated 100k ISIS militants (out of a population of 1M) inhabit Raqqa, and even more who are strongly sympathetic to them, your belief that they aren't walking around on the streets seems, well, stupid. Don't you think?

And just where exactly did I say anything of the sort? The fact that you even said this dumb sh*t demonstrates that the concept of a strategic stalemate simply eludes you. Or were you just "exaggerating" about this too?
I'm aware you'll lap up anything Obama does, saying anything negative about him calls you like a dog whistle.
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Nov 17, 2015, 07:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I wasn't saying "all people on the Right are Nazis" in Sweden. I was making the point that your rhetoric closely aligns with those right-wingers who ARE Neo-Nazis.
No, I merely said they need more on the Right in their gov't, you then started with the "Nazis!" canard. If you were any more intellectually dishonest there, the growth of your nose would have broken your damned computer screen.
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Nov 17, 2015, 07:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Relatively speaking, wanting people prosecuted as opposed to killed for drawing cartoons of the prophet isn't all that radical. Its not exactly moderate, but at least its non-violent.
What do you think they do when they successfully prosecute them?
     
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Nov 17, 2015, 07:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I wasn't saying "all people on the Right are Nazis" in Sweden. I was making the point that your rhetoric closely aligns with those right-wingers who ARE Neo-Nazis.

OAW
OAW, come on man, you're better than this. It's an ad hominem and you know it.
     
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Nov 17, 2015, 08:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No I wasn't joking about that, now that you ask, it was poor judgement from a terrible leader. Since an estimated 100k ISIS militants (out of a population of 1M) inhabit Raqqa, and even more who are strongly sympathetic to them, your belief that they aren't walking around on the streets seems, well, stupid. Don't you think?
And where exactly did I express any sort of belief that I didn't think they were "walking around on the streets"? Do you even read my posts before responding?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I'm aware you'll lap up anything Obama does, saying anything negative about him calls you like a dog whistle.
Well the point I made was that this wasn't an "Obama" or even a "US" strategy. Instead it was a "Western" strategy. The coalition against ISIS is "international" in scope ... but the big dogs in the fight are "Western" countries like United Kingdom, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, Italy, etc. ... along with the Kurds and Russia. And with the exception of the Kurds and the Iranians ... NONE of them are trying to actually eradicate ISIS. Not even Russia.

Russia says it’s bombing ISIS in Syria. This map shows it’s lying. - Vox

So I know you have this visceral impulse to declare Obama an idiot if he said that 2+2=4. But at the end of the day the goal of ALL the Western coalition powers and Russia ... not just Obama ... is strategic stalemate. The Western powers are trying to maintain a balance of power in Syria that applies just enough pressure upon the Assad regime to force him to relinquish power. Russia is trying to maintain a similar balance of power in Syria but they want to preserve the Assad regime ... if not Assad personally ... because Syria hosts Russia's only naval base with a warm-water port in the Mediterranean Sea. Neither side wants a wholesale collapse of the Assad regime because ISIS would fill the power vacuum.

Now again ... the calculus may very well change because of the ISIS bombing of that Russian airliner and the attacks in Paris. But heretofore strategic stalemate has been the goal. So if you think it's "poor judgement" on the part of Obama then do at least try to show a shred of intellectual integrity and make that claim about all the nations leaders involved.

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Nov 17, 2015, 08:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
OAW, come on man, you're better than this. It's an ad hominem and you know it.
It certainly was. Unfortunately, it's also true.

CTP has been grinding my last nerve lately so my posts directed at him have reflected a certain invective that isn't typical for me when interacting with just about anyone but him. And by nature I tend to respond in kind. But you are right ... I should pump my brakes.

OAW
     
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Nov 17, 2015, 08:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
And where exactly did I express any sort of belief that I didn't think they were "walking around on the streets"? Do you even read my posts before responding?


Originally Posted by OAW View Post
"why he hasn't continued to bomb them is a ****ing mystery though, since there's always several 1000 ISIS fighters standing around on any given day". Were you "exaggerating" about that part too?
Do you often forget what you're writing from one minute to the next?

Well the point I made was that this wasn't an "Obama" or even a "US" strategy. Instead it was a "Western" strategy. The coalition against ISIS is "international" in scope ... but the big dogs in the fight are "Western" countries like United Kingdom, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, Italy, etc. ... along with the Kurds and Russia. And with the exception of the Kurds and the Iranians ... NONE of them are trying to actually eradicate ISIS. Not even Russia.

Russia says it’s bombing ISIS in Syria. This map shows it’s lying. - Vox

So I know you have this visceral impulse to declare Obama an idiot if he said that 2+2=4. But at the end of the day the goal of ALL the Western coalition powers and Russia ... not just Obama ... is strategic stalemate. The Western powers are trying to maintain a balance of power in Syria that applies just enough pressure upon the Assad regime to force him to relinquish power. Russia is trying to maintain a similar balance of power in Syria but they want to preserve the Assad regime ... if not Assad personally ... because Syria hosts Russia's only naval base with a warm-water port in the Mediterranean Sea. Neither side wants a wholesale collapse of the Assad regime because ISIS would fill the power vacuum.

Now again ... the calculus may very well change because of the ISIS bombing of that Russian airliner and the attacks in Paris. But heretofore strategic stalemate has been the goal. So if you think it's "poor judgement" on the part of Obama then do at least try to show a shred of intellectual integrity and make that claim about all the nations leaders involved.
I'm aware of their convenient excuses, but unlike you I don't automatically swallow them hook, line, and sinker. They're going by assumptions of a power structure that are at a year out of date (at least I hope it's mere ****uperry, and not blatant capitulation). Russia isn't doing anything because they're broke, the oil price war has destroyed their economy.
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Nov 17, 2015, 08:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No, I merely said they need more on the Right in their gov't, you then started with the "Nazis!" canard. If you were any more intellectually dishonest there, the growth of your nose would have broken your damned computer screen.
Actually your obsession with a discredited article about some supposed massive increase in white women in Sweden being raped by Muslim immigrants is quite typical of Neo-Nazi rhetoric.

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Nov 17, 2015, 08:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
It certainly was. Unfortunately, it's also true.

CTP has been grinding my last nerve lately so my posts directed at him have reflected a certain invective that isn't typical for me
Oh please, you've been abusive for years, at least now you're finally being honest with it. Maybe take a break, go to the gym, watch some Netflix and chill. I can compartmentalize my feelings and reply while doing a lot of other things, maybe you can't?
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Nov 17, 2015, 08:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Originally Posted by OAW
"why he hasn't continued to bomb them is a ****ing mystery though, since there's always several 1000 ISIS fighters standing around on any given day". Were you "exaggerating" about that part too?
Do you often forget what you're writing from one minute to the next?
You do realize that the part in italics were your words right? So when I asked you if you were "exaggerating about that part too" that was in reference to YOUR CONTENTION. Because when you claimed that Obama couldn't find Raqqa on a map you said you were "exaggerating" about that part. Remember? So what about that follow up statement? Moreover, I already answered your question when I first mentioned strategic stalemate. Why would I say that the Western powers were deliberately going easy on ISIS soldiers that I didn't think were actually there?

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Nov 17, 2015, 08:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Actually your obsession with a discredited article about some supposed massive increase in white women in Sweden being raped by Muslim immigrants is quite typical of Neo-Nazi rhetoric.
Is that supposed to matter to me? What you call me doesn't mean anything. As far as I know, The Daily Caller isn't funded by the KKK or the White Nationalist party. Remember kids, facts and statistics aren't "racist", only people are. Don't let progressive blowhards push you off course with labels, they use them as a means to an end.

The tale is an important one as the two countries involved have taken completely different approaches to Muslim immigration and the preservation of their own culture. As such, both provide examples of the proverbial canary in the coal mine on this matter.

Sweden began opening its doors to Muslim immigrants in the 1970s. Today it pays a high price for having done so. The group suffering the severest consequences of such an open door policy has been Swedish women.

As Muslim men immigrated to Sweden, they brought with them an Islamic culture sanctioning rape. It is a culture bad enough inherently in the treatment of its own women. Under sharia, Muslim women serve little more purpose beyond catering to their husbands’ sexual demands. A non-submissive wife runs the risk of being raped by her husband.

But under sharia, this rape culture also impacts upon Swedish women as they are “infidels” and, as such, are — according to Allah’s teachings — sanctioned targets for rape by Muslim men. Such an Islamic belief system has born witness to a drastic increase in rapes in Sweden — more than a thousand fold — since first opening its doors to Muslim immigration.

A 1996 Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention report bears this out. It noted that Muslim immigrants from North Africa were 23 times more likely to commit rape than Swedish men. It is no wonder why today Sweden is deemed the rape capital of the Western world.
Why aren't there more modern studies, surely the Swedish gov't wants to know such things?

Interestingly, between 1995-2006, the Swedish government tracked gang rapes, identifying a drastically increasing trend. Unbelievably, after discovering the problem, it then adopted an ostrich-like “head in the sand” approach, terminating any further studies on them . Apparently the government’s fear of being labeled Islamophobic proved greater than its concerns about warning Swedish women about the threat. While no studies on gang rape have been conducted since 2006, one can assume these numbers have continued to rise.
and there you go, PC culture trumps concern for its citizenry. Nauseating.
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Nov 17, 2015, 08:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
You do realize that the part in italics were your words right? So when I asked you if you were "exaggerating about that part too" that was in reference to YOUR CONTENTION. Because when you claimed that Obama couldn't find Raqqa on a map you said you were "exaggerating" about that part. Remember? So what about that follow up statement? Moreover, I already answered your question when I first mentioned strategic stalemate. Why would I say that the Western powers were deliberately going easy on ISIS soldiers that I didn't think were actually there?
I said there were 1000s of ISIS militants standing around (obviously that's true due to their sheer numbers in Raqqa), you asked if I was exaggerating about that too. No, I wasn't. The only thing I was exaggerating was Obama's map reading skills, the rest you can except as written. Good, glad that's settled then.
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Nov 17, 2015, 09:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Remember kids, facts and statistics aren't "racist", only people are.
My point exactly.

Originally Posted by P
The reason for the increase from the nineties and on is mainly that solicitation was made illegal, and that crime shows up in the same group. A later bump comes from a change in the definitions of rape from 2005. We currently have a quite wide definition of the word, something I'd thought an experienced Internet debater would know about from the Assange case.
Originally Posted by P
I just showed you the stats that that isn't true for rapes.
Yet you remain obsessed with the topic.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Nov 17, 2015 at 09:24 PM. )
     
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Nov 17, 2015, 11:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
My point exactly.
Hardly, in fact, not even a little bit.

Yet you remain obsessed with the topic.
Because the more these countries ignore the problems surrounding their growing Muslim populations, the worse it is for everyone else.
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Nov 17, 2015, 11:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Maybe take a break, watch some Netflix and chill.
I'm hardly down with the kids but I think this now constitutes a come-on.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Nov 18, 2015, 02:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I wasn't saying "all people on the Right are Nazis" in Sweden. I was making the point that your rhetoric closely aligns with those right-wingers who ARE Neo-Nazis.

OAW
And your rhetoric seems to support people who practice an ideaology which suppresses women, executes homesexuals, abolishes free speech, persecutes and murders minorities and terminates people who choose to leave.

Why would you support such a "right wing" ideaology? And FYI the "conseratives" in the west are not neonazis, they are trying to conserve the very thing lefties are all too eager to surrender; liberty (the polar opposite of nazism).
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; Nov 18, 2015 at 07:52 PM. )
     
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Nov 18, 2015, 09:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Hardly, in fact, not even a little bit.



Because the more these countries ignore the problems surrounding their growing Muslim populations, the worse it is for everyone else.
The Rotherham scandal is a good example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rother...tation_scandal
Who will be held to account for the horror in Rotherham? » The Spectator
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Nov 18, 2015, 11:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I'm hardly down with the kids but I think this now constitutes a come-on.
My wife said it means to watch something sexy on TV and make out. It always relaxes me, and assuming he has an SO, it may chill him out too.
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Nov 18, 2015, 09:45 PM
 
I was shocked at how fast this story disappeared from the news cycle.

The most persecuted minority:


"... since the beginning of Syria’s civil war in 2011. Of them, only 53 (2.4%) have been Christians, while 2,098 (96%) have been Muslims..." - www.dailywire.com

The Yazidis & Christians communities in Iraq which predate Islam itself, have almost been wiped off the face of the earth. Those people, and communities will not be coming back. Yet, the leadership in this country, and in Europe seem to be willing to take in people who share the same ideology as the perpetrators, instead of prioritizing those most vulnerable.

It seems they are too Christian for the "Left" and too Arab for the "Right". And so, all we can do is witness minorities being violently eradicated by muslims in the name of Islam. "The religion of peace".

Please take note of the lengths the 1 billion muslims of the world go to, to try and save the lives of these minorities. And compare that to their reactions when they see a cartoon.

I am proud that the Australian government has indicated that it will be prioritizing refugee resettlement of persecuted minorities, despite the unprecedented opposition from the left and the leftist media.
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; Nov 18, 2015 at 10:40 PM. )
     
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Nov 29, 2015, 04:24 PM
 
Syrian Lannister

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May 20, 2016, 06:02 PM
 
[QUOTE=The Final Dakar;4314165]Real piece of shit. Personally this struck me more: Israel's PM Netanyahu: No Palestinian state on my watch - CNN.com/QUOTE]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...05d_story.html
In a press conference Friday, Yaalon, a fellow member of Netanyahu’s Likud party, warned that Israel was drifting dangerously toward extremism.

“I fought with all my might against manifestations of extremism, violence and racism in Israeli society, which are threatening its sturdiness and trickling into the armed forces, hurting it already,” he said.

Yaalon appeared to be referring to widespread support by Israeli leaders for a combat medic who shot to death a wounded Palestinian attacker as he lay on a street in Hebron in the occupied West Bank.

Thousands of Israelis rallied in Tel Aviv and proclaimed the soldier a hero. Israeli human-rights activists called it a cold-blooded execution. The killing was captured on video.
Maybe in: Avigdor Lieberman. He’s a former foreign minister and current leader of an ultranationalist political party built around the 1 million Russian-speaking immigrants to Israel.
Netanyahu living up to his promises.
     
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May 20, 2016, 09:52 PM
 
Makes one wonder if such posters ever notice all the human rights violations anywhere else in the world, specifically in the parts of the world which Israel's adversaries control.

Impossible standards being applied to the Jew among nations, is anti semitism.

     
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May 20, 2016, 10:06 PM
 
Likud is reaping what it has sown … just like the Republicans in the US. :/
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May 21, 2016, 08:21 AM
 
You perception of what's going on in the USA is very... interesting.
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May 21, 2016, 08:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
Makes one wonder if such posters ever notice all the human rights violations anywhere else in the world, specifically in the parts of the world which Israel's adversaries control.

Impossible standards being applied to the Jew among nations, is anti semitism.
Without context for the situation, making a judgement is ridiculous. Israel would need to be 100x worse before they caught up with the actions of the "Palestinians".
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The Final Dakar
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May 27, 2016, 02:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
Makes one wonder if such posters ever notice all the human rights violations anywhere else in the world, specifically in the parts of the world which Israel's adversaries control.
We do. We also notice Israel is supposed to be a civilized nation, our ally, and we give them money. I think it's ok to expect better of them. I also think 'other countries do it' is a sad defense.

Impossible standards being applied to the Jew among nations, is anti semitism.
What's the impossible standard? Not occupying territory? Not building illegal settlements? Expecting an honest attempt at a two nation solution?

But LOL. Seems like almost any critical opinion of Israel can get slapped as antisemitism. I hear BDS is antisemitic, too.
     
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May 28, 2016, 06:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Seems like almost any critical opinion of Israel can get slapped as antisemitism.
I have a Jewish ex-friend who is an ex-friend for doing exactly this. Disagree with anything Israel says or does, you're an anti-semite. She even got to the point where she decided that disagreeing with her was anti-semitic, which made things difficult because she isn't half as bright as she likes to think she is and was wrong about pretty much everything important.

Jews are rather unique in that their race, religion and to a slightly lesser extent nationality are all under the one umbrella. Many seem to think that this gives them the right to label any criticism of any of them as anti-semitism.

During my friendship, I came to really resent the use of the term 'anti-semitism' as well. She would send me terrible Jewish and Israeli propaganda articles to read (most of which read like they were from a Jewish arm of Fox News in their unashamed bias) and they would talk about situations where several races were being persecuted at once but they were only complaining about the anti-semitism. Like its fine to persecute other races, or they simply didn't care about anyone else.

The term 'racism' seems to be adequate for all the other races when persecuted, I'm not sure why Jews need their own special one any more. I think it probably does them more harm than good nowadays.
( Last edited by Waragainstsleep; May 29, 2016 at 11:15 AM. )
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May 28, 2016, 11:17 AM
 


Because said "actors" have had very little to say (if anything) about the plight/struggle of the Kurds, Tibetans, Armenians, Cambodians, North Koreans, Rwandans, etc.... yet they latch onto the "Palestinians" against the one and only Jewish State. Is it because Israel is a Jewish state? Maybe there's some other reason in their heads that one isn't aware of? Call it what you want, I call it anti-semitism, not because they are critical of Israel, but because they are specifically, almost exclusively and disproportionately critical of Israel.

One is clearly a bigot because they think arabs/muslims are not capable of being held up to the same standards as everyone else, and what's worse they hold *only* the Jewish state up to the impossible standards in their heads (anti semitism), while the real human rights violators, genocidal maniacs, etc.. are never faced with criticisms from said actors in proportion to the crimes they commit.

If foreign aid was a factor, said actors would be even more critical of maniacal arab/muslim countries which receive aid as well and afford their minorities, their own female populations and homosexuals nothing when compared to Israel, not even basic human rights. Could the relative silence be because they are not Jewish states?

The BDS movement is the the most anti-semitic movement since the expulsion of sephardic and mizrahi Jewish communities from the middle east and north africa, because of all the issues, violations, genocides, etc... happening in the middle east *today*, I would hardly consider the Israel/palestinean issue to be at the top of any list. The fact that such a movement exists, against the only Jewish state, and no such movement in any muslim majority communities against Hammas, Hezbullah, ISIS, AlQudea, etc.... speaks volumes about "BDS", their supporters, their intentions and motives. It isnt about arab "rights", it's about hating the one Jewish state.

For anyone who's interested:
BDS Movement Debate | Oxford Union (YouTube)
Hamas is a Greater Obstacle to Peace Than Israel | Oxford Union (YouTube)
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; May 28, 2016 at 11:50 AM. )
     
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May 28, 2016, 11:47 AM
 
I think Bibi is an asshole, and Israel should give up the West Bank, because that's the contract they signed (if I understand the history properly).

That said, you can sit in the West Bank and lob mortars right into Jerusalem.

We here in the "civilized" U.S. just finished blowing away Iraq for snoring too loud, and we yell at Israel, who is in a situation equivalent to having New York City border Afghanistan.

     
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May 28, 2016, 10:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
Could the relative silence be because they are not Jewish states?
No, it's because of personal relations. I'm much more interested in Israel because plenty of co-workers, colleagues and co-authors of mine are Jewish or Israeli (not always the same thing). That's also why I'm more interested in the goings-on in Japan (my wife is Japanese and I currently live in Japan) than, say, Mongolia or Senegal. On a larger scale, the same is true: Israel's most important allies are the US and Europe — also because of the sizable Jewish populations there.
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
The BDS movement is the the most anti-semitic movement since the expulsion of sephardic and mizrahi Jewish communities from the middle east and north africa, because of all the issues, violations, genocides, etc...
I'm very wary to broadly apply the label “anti-semitic” to a movement that involves so many Jews.
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May 28, 2016, 10:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
We here in the "civilized" U.S. just finished blowing away Iraq for snoring too loud, and we yell at Israel, who is in a situation equivalent to having New York City border Afghanistan.
That simplistic argument invariably leads to war, because the issue at hand here is that you want to create a safe buffer zone around you. The US used this argument in the war against the Spanish, Russia is using it to justify its involvement in Ukraine and for Israel it will always remain an issue due to its geographic location. It's been the reason why the various nations and fiefdoms in Europe had been at war with one another since the dawn of time. The only permanent solution is a political solution such as the European Union. The current power brokers in Israel like to pretend that the only options are to “let them attack us or we periodically mow the lawn over there”, but it's not.

PS Very soon we can answer the initial question of this thread with a “No, Israel was not attacked and did not suffer a 9/11-like terrorist attack.”
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Jun 8, 2016, 04:29 PM
 
Shooting at Tel Aviv market. Mulsim men alledgedly dressed as Orthodox
At least 4 dead in shooting at Tel Aviv market | Fox News
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Jun 11, 2016, 04:30 PM
 
Dispute ruptures between UN's Ban Ki Moon and Saudi Arabia - CNN.com

1. I wonder where all the muslim/leftie protesters are.
2. If SA can wage a war in Yemen, why was it(and the other muslim counties in the region) incapable of doing anything to stop ISIS when they were ethnically cleansing Christians and Yazidis?
3. Why are the anti-semites and bigots so quite regarding this issue? (ie proving me right)
     
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Afghani Omar Mateen kills fifty, injures scores more in Orlando terrorist attack.
Orlando shooting sees gunman shoot dead at least 20 at Florida gay club | Daily Mail Online
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