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IonCable · Oct 26, 2003, 08:57 AM

I think Classic support will disappear with 10.4 next year. What do you guys think?

gorickey · Oct 26, 2003, 09:03 AM

Hope so.

SMacTech · Oct 26, 2003, 09:09 AM

Apple has worked hard to maintain Classic and they have improved it with Panther. I hardly see them dropping it anytime soon.
I have many legacy apps that I periodically use, so I would hate to see it disappear.
If you don't use it, why should you care that it still exists?

Detrius · Oct 26, 2003, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Apple has worked hard to maintain Classic and they have improved it with Panther. I hardly see them dropping it anytime soon.
I have many legacy apps that I periodically use, so I would hate to see it disappear.
If you don't use it, why should you care that it still exists?

Agreed. What difference does it make? It doesn't hurt anything to be there. It hardly even takes up disk space.

gorickey · Oct 26, 2003, 09:25 AM

For those still using Classic...what applications are you using that it's totally impossible to replicate in OS X by now in one way or another? Just wondering...

SMacTech · Oct 26, 2003, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Detrius:
Agreed. What difference does it make? It doesn't hurt anything to be there. It hardly even takes up disk space.

It's easy enough to remove, so for those who don't want it, trash it.
I hope Apple develops better Classic integration in the future. Something as simple as the menu bar in Classic being just like OS X.

Love Calm Quiet · Oct 26, 2003, 09:28 AM

Alas, PageMaker. I've still got old publications archived that I sometimes have to dig into.
::hexing Adobe::

Terri · Oct 26, 2003, 09:38 AM

PageMaker is one of the big ones. I work in printing and a large amount of people use PageMaker and we have to RIP their files.

Colonel Panic · Oct 26, 2003, 09:48 AM

outlook 2001 for imap exchange server compatibility....

why WOULD apple drop it? it doesn't hurt, and can only help...you never know when it might come in handy. mountains of software run in that environment...

bjresta · Oct 30, 2003, 08:56 PM

What Classic apps do I use?

I use an application called MacBible 3.0 from Zondervan Corporation (copyright 1993). It allows me to compare and search text from three different versions of the Bible. It works great, is very fast in Classic on my 450 MHz iMac, and would be very expensive to replace in OS X. In fact, I haven't found any program that offers all the features of MacBible for less than $500.

I use Quicken Deluxe 2000, which also works great for me. Why pay to replace it?

I also use an old shareware app called CalcWorks SE. It was the best calculator app under OS 9 and so far I haven't seen its equal among the various OS X calculators.

swatson · Oct 30, 2003, 09:38 PM

I have a spanish grammar checker - os 9 only.

I have looked and looked and can't find one for OS X, if you know of one let me know.

zeebe · Oct 30, 2003, 09:59 PM

I work at a school and there are a ton of great apps that they do not make OS X versions for. One MAJOR one is Kid Pix. No OS X support there yet, and from my discussions with the company, none coming soon.

CIA · Oct 30, 2003, 10:00 PM

There are a ton of old games that only run in OS9. OK, granted these are not Doom III, but they can still be a lot of fun.

Brass · Oct 30, 2003, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
For those still using Classic...what applications are you using that it's totally impossible to replicate in OS X by now in one way or another? Just wondering...

DesignWorkshop Lite (3D modelling) is Mac OS 9 only (or Windows). There is nothing else like it in terms of ease of use for it's power and speed of building good 3D models for the price (FREE).

Also the Australia Taxation Office BAS submission software is Classic only (or Windows).

There are many applications (usually small and specialised) that require classic.

There is no reason for Apple to remove Classic access. I can see that it will eventually disappear (perhaps even be an optional part of the install first) in future versions of the OS, but there's no need to remove it, if it doesn't require much further maintenance by their developers.

I can't imagine it disappearing before 10.5, and don't expect it to disappear until at least 10.6.

Kenstee · Oct 30, 2003, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
For those still using Classic...what applications are you using that it's totally impossible to replicate in OS X by now in one way or another? Just wondering...

I use a money/business/personal finance program called Managing Your Money. It's great. Simple. Not bloated. I've got 12 years of data in it. And...its discontinued. OS 9 was the last and final release.

So, FWIW...I'm hoping Classic is here to stay.

Brass · Oct 30, 2003, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Kenstee:
I use a money/business/personal finance program called Managing Your Money. It's great. Simple. Not bloated. I've got 12 years of data in it. And...its discontinued. OS 9 was the last and final release.

So, FWIW...I'm hoping Classic is here to stay.

Wow, if it is truly not going to be updated, you should seriously look into migrating that data to something else. Can you export it into some form that another application could read it? (With perhaps a 3rd application in between to massage the data into a state the destination application could read).

mitchell_pgh · Oct 30, 2003, 10:38 PM

If it's not too much trouble, they will keep it around for years...

giantmike · Oct 30, 2003, 11:16 PM

How about all those older games that were made before MacOS X, but have been updated for MacOS X. Many (most) of those need Classic installed so they can be installed, and then updated to MacOS X compatibility.

Landos Mustache · Oct 30, 2003, 11:20 PM

Why? Does it traumatize you with it sitting on your harddrive? I hope it is still there in 10.8.

ryaxnb · Oct 30, 2003, 11:45 PM

Better not... or else I won't upgrade until [if ever] someone hacks it to work with Classic.

ryaxnb · Oct 30, 2003, 11:47 PM

After Dark Games. And Color It! because for a program iUse so little I don't want to spend money on Photoshop Elements.

ryaxnb · Oct 30, 2003, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
Why? Does it traumatize you with it sitting on your harddrive? I hope it is still there in 10.8.

me too. [likes Classic] and don't forget "holdouts" using emailer and homepage from Claris.

waffffffle · Oct 31, 2003, 12:15 AM

I use classic sometimes simply because it is cheaper to use old OS 9 versions of some applications than to upgrade to newer versions. I have Phoshop 6 and Eye Candy 4000 in OS 9. I don't use the programs all that much so why pay up for new versions for OS X?

Also, my favorite OS-only app (not classic) is Coaster, a very powerful, yet free, sound recording application. The developer has no plans to create an OS X version so I continue to boot my iBook into OS 9 to do live recording with Coaster. There is still not alternative in OS X that is as good as Coaster. I'm thinking that I may start to use a combination of Rogue Amoeba's LineIn and Audio Hijack or Ambrosia's WireTap but thats a pretty clunky solution.

Brass · Oct 31, 2003, 12:29 AM

Not to mention that there are actually an awful lot of Macs out there that haven't even got Mac OS X on them at all yet, and are still on OS 9 (or some even earlier).

You can be sure that these people will not be upgrading all of their applications AND purchasing a new operating system at the same time, as if they could afford that, they would have done so already.

I know of at least one entire department at the University here that is all OS 9 based! Painful, I know.

thePurpleGiant · Oct 31, 2003, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by zeebe:
I work at a school and there are a ton of great apps that they do not make OS X versions for. One MAJOR one is Kid Pix. No OS X support there yet, and from my discussions with the company, none coming soon.

Kids Pix is coming to OS X:

www.mackiev.com

thePurpleGiant · Oct 31, 2003, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by Brass:
I know of at least one entire department at the University here that is all OS 9 based! Painful, I know.

Hey, my entire univeristy is OS 9 based! And they have Flat-Panel iMacs...

zeebe · Oct 31, 2003, 12:57 AM

Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:
Kids Pix is coming to OS X:

www.mackiev.com

That is good news to hear, although I would like to see them also upgrade Kid Pix Studio Deluxe 2. Thanks for the update!

yukon · Oct 31, 2003, 01:03 AM

the Intel Indeo video codecs aren't in OS X, and they're the last two codecs that i can't play.....unless i boot up classic and run Quicktime Player. codecs IV32 and IV50 to be specific.

sahara · Oct 31, 2003, 01:41 AM

My damn Epson PhotoPC 750Z requires OS 9. When is Epson going to come out with digital more camera drivers. Grrr...

zeebe · Oct 31, 2003, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by sahara:
My damn Epson PhotoPC 750Z requires OS 9. When is Epson going to come out with digital more camera drivers. Grrr...

I don't know this camera, does it only have internal memory? If not, get a card reader and OS X will read the card, no software necessary to install.

I use a Kodak Multicard reader. The only thing that sucks is that Kodak EasyShare software doesn't work in Panther. I like that over iPhoto as it lists photos by dates taken.

Has anyone else used EasyShare with any success?

moonmonkey · Oct 31, 2003, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by bjresta:
What Classic apps do I use?

I use an application called MacBible 3.0 . It allows me to compare and search text from three different versions of the Bible.

Hmm, have you found any inconsistencies?

typoon · Oct 31, 2003, 12:20 PM

Yeah I don't understand what the big deal about having classic on the computer. YOu can if you do a format and re-install it is possible to get OS 9 to about a 50-60 meg install. If you don't want to even have the classic menu in your System prefs download Diablotin and have it removed. Just don't install OS 9 on your older machine then you won't even have to worry about it. I don't have Classic installed at all, for me it's OS X or nothing.

Eriamjh · Oct 31, 2003, 03:11 PM

Apple usually drops hardware that is over five-years old when OS updates come out (retail updates, that is). If OS9 was last released in 2000 fall (the sawtooth G4s I think), then it will be dropped no sooner than fall 2005.

There really is no reason to drop classic support. Eventually, Apple will see no need to improve classic and it will either be dropped or no longer updated. If Apple has to invest significantly to keep classic compatible with new hardware (not likely needed since classic doesn't really talk to hardware), it will stop including it and stop working on keeping it.

If you don't use it, fine. If you still do, fine. What's next? Asking when the G6s are coming out?

Scooterboy · Oct 31, 2003, 04:53 PM

I use Classic sometimes, for Transparant Language as they haven't updated the one I'm trying to learn, and sometimes Photoshop 6.

clarkgoble · Oct 31, 2003, 04:59 PM

Apple ideally should never drop classic. You never know when you need something from years ago.

Just recently I had to convert an old MacWrite file over. (Fortunately I had MacLinks Delux)

One of my favorite games Strategic Conquest also is classic only. It's a very simple game and I'm surprised it hasn't been ported.

Morenix · Oct 31, 2003, 05:36 PM

never. i hope.

Luca Rescigno · Oct 31, 2003, 06:01 PM

I use Classic for two things (soon to be three things):

- ResEdit. There are alternative resource fork editors for OS X, but they all cost money and they're not as familiar to me as ResEdit.
- Escape Velocity. I know, EV Nova is way cooler, and there's even a total conversion of EV Nova to make it like EV Classic, but the conversion is messed up. All the speed values are off, and it's not compatible with any of the great plugins made for original EV. You really need the original game for the full experience.
- Soon, Illustrator 6. I "borrowed" a copy of Illustrator 10 but I hate it. Argh, Illustrator 6 is so much more intuitive and there are fewer features - which is a good thing. I used Illustrator 6 for years on my PowerMac 7100 and version 10 is just messed up. In fact, my mom continues to use Illustrator 6 for her business, and many of her clients won't even accept files created in version 10 because they are usually too new. Print shops don't update often - it is way too much of a hassle when there are multi-million dollar printing machines that may or may not continue to work after an upgrade to their computer systems.

prutz11 · Nov 1, 2003, 02:06 PM

What are the current OS 9 vs OS X usage numbers? Minus a few pieces of software missing I can't imagine a reason for continuing to use OS 9 if your hardware can handle OS X.

Earlier in the week I had an experience that made me wish OS 9 and classic were dead. My girlfriend uses iVisit to talk to her family in Europe. iVisit has proven very problematic in OS X and I don't have OS 9 on my system. This week iVisit released a new version... the catch was that they only released an OS 9 installer. The program is carbon and will run natively in X, but it has an OS 9 installer. Reading on the iVisit forums and version tracker reveals that they don't really see X as a high priority.
Isn't it time that developers should be putting zero effort into OS 9 software? Not that OS 9 wasn't great, but it just cant compare to X.

hart · Nov 3, 2003, 12:31 PM

I have a huge library of children's software that is not available in OSX. This market seems to be very slow to upgrade (I'm eager for Kid pix to appear). In any case I wouldn't want to repurchase Reader Rabbit Toddler and other little kid software when in a year or so I won't be using it any more.

Plus we play a wide array of OS9 games like Descent 3, Star Wars Racer, Star Trek Elite Force, After Dark Games, etc etc,etc. We'll be keeping Classic around for a while.

zeebe · Nov 3, 2003, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by hart:
I have a huge library of children's software that is not available in OSX. This market seems to be very slow to upgrade (I'm eager for Kid pix to appear). In any case I wouldn't want to repurchase Reader Rabbit Toddler and other little kid software when in a year or so I won't be using it any more.

Plus we play a wide array of OS9 games like Descent 3, Star Wars Racer, Star Trek Elite Force, After Dark Games, etc etc,etc. We'll be keeping Classic around for a while.

Am I wrong or is Star Trek Elite Force now have an OS X version? I too am waiting for the Kid Pix update. I wish someone would carbonize Star Wars Racer. Does anyone know if this works in a network in Classic?