[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I agree Wisk. But one should also not show everyone your red button.

The cartoons are a great weapon and should be used against fanatical terrorists everywhere. They're much cheaper than bombs and hopefully US Psy-Ops forces will employ some sort of cartoons when engaging terrorists. If terrorists are hold up somewhere, an airdrop can deploy massive amounts of offensive cartoons and that will get them all worked up and it will be far easier to eliminate the terrorists when the military arrives.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Rolling Bones

Isn't that Wacko Jacko?

I read that he got kicked out of the mideast country that was hosting him recently.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I agree Wisk. But one should also not show everyone your red button.

True. Everyone is pushing this particular one now just to see the reaction it produces. Two publications where I live have pushed this button now, and there has previously been no friction with the local Muslim community (local Muslim leaders are expressing disappointment, but asking their followers not to respond with violence)

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

All I'm asking is that people take into consideration how moderate Muslims (those who aren't inclined to riot) feel when they see these cartoons.

One can't necessarily change how one feels about a provocation but the response is always either, learned or prescribed and thus chosen and controllable.

Soccer matches don't justify hooliganism. Drinking is no excuse for bar fighting. "She" didn't make you beat her.

Cartoons about the prophet don't give anyone a free pass to commit violence.

So, how DOES a moderate muslim feel when viewing the cartoons?

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by PacHead

The cartoons are a great weapon and should be used against fanatical terrorists everywhere. They're much cheaper than bombs and hopefully US Psy-Ops forces will employ some sort of cartoons when engaging terrorists. If terrorists are hold up somewhere, an airdrop can deploy massive amounts of offensive cartoons and that will get them all worked up and it will be far easier to eliminate the terrorists when the military arrives.

That's funny!

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

So, how DOES a moderate muslim feel when viewing the cartoons?

I suspect much the same way moderate Christians feel when seeing caricatures of their god or how moderate Americans feel when they see cartoons of 9/11: offended

The difference between the moderates and the extremists is the reaction. Extremists are using this as an excuse for violence (as extremists from all walks of life are prone to do). If all Muslims were to respond with violence, we'd have a very big problem on our hands.

I work with a few Muslims. They are not happy about the caricatures. However, none have burned down any buildings.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

I suspect much the same way moderate Christians feel when seeing caricatures of their god or how moderate Americans feel when they see cartoons of 9/11: offended

The difference between the moderates and the extremists is the reaction. Extremists are using this as an excuse for violence (as extremists from all walks of life are prone to do). If all Muslims were to respond with violence, we'd have a very big problem on our hands.

I work with a few Muslims. They are not happy about the caricatures. However, none have burned down any buildings.

Do they feel inclined to do anything about any (ALL?) of the bad things being done in the name of Islam? Or are they just trying to live quiet peaceful lives?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

Do they feel inclined to do anything about any (ALL?) of the bad things being done in the name of Islam? Or are they just trying to live quiet peaceful lives?

Is it not "doing something" to live peacefully, and show to other Muslims that one can be offended without resorting to violence?

[tthmaz]

Some of my friends are muslims as well... i haven't ask their opinion on how they se the cartoons. But here in my country muslims didn't make a big fuss about it compared to those in the arabs countries / strong muslims countries.

Is that they need more eduction before they can react more rationally? Why couldn't ppl take it peacefully? Would it be possible that the westerm media is using this to arise a war/conflict or some other political benefits? Think, my friends!

[himself]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

Do they feel inclined to do anything about any (ALL?) of the bad things being done in the name of Islam? Or are they just trying to live quiet peaceful lives?

They probably feel just as inclined to do something about that as moderate Christians do about their extremists. Ditto for Jews.

Please tell us, what more could the moderate Muslims do that they haven't already been doing? You do understand that it can't be reasonably expected for them to, for example, go into these particular communities and just talk the excited folk down, right? The moderates Muslims have little to no control over what the extremists do; they can only influence social contempt for that kind of response (which may not even be effective).

So please, give some examples of what you expect mainstream Muslims to do that they haven't already tried.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Is it not "doing something" to live peacefully, and show to other Muslims that one can be offended without resorting to violence?

Sure. Just as long as they don't complain about any of the remedies the rest of the world imposes when being a splendid example of peaceful living (and hasn't during any and all of this terrorism stuff) doesn't work.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by himself

They probably feel just as inclined to do something about that as moderate Christians do about their extremists. Ditto for Jews.

Please tell us, what more could the moderate Muslims do that they haven't already been doing? You do understand that it can't be reasonably expected for them to, for example, go into these particular communities and just talk the excited folk down, right? The moderates Muslims have little to no control over what the extremists do; they can only influence social contempt for that kind of response (which may not even be effective).

So please, give some examples of what you expect mainstream Muslims to do that they haven't already tried.

Just off the top of my head, why not take every example of the liberals who have opposed the President's election, advisors, actions, inactions, things he's said, things he's not said and then mount the same kinds of protests and write the same kinds of articles and books and cultivate the same kind of media coverage but with a different motivating cause, different posters and signs and flags.

Or, off the top of my head, how about imagining all these riots and protests we see over the cartoons but instead of protesting these cartoons which show the prophet in a negative light, why not have protests against those who show the whole daggum religion in a negative light.

When the world really runs out of patience or when the world gets desperate and has little other resorts, the last resort will be to fear, suspect and guard against ANY Muslims.

At that point it would be too late for the moderate Muslims to protest. Better they should do it now as though their freedom and their lives and their very religion were at stake.

IMHO.

EDIT: As it is moderate Muslims have sat still and allowed themselves to be demonized all because of the actions of their brethren.

And need I remind you that when you talk about extremist Christians and Jews you aren't talking about them committing acts of widespread global terrorism and suicide bombings. And when Christians and jews go to extremes the Christian and Jewish world quickly and firmly denounces those individuals and uses any and all legal means to prevent their doing that stuff again.

See, why don't the moderate Muslims act like that? It's really in their interests to do so. Then, maybe no one would get upset at the headscarves in school issue or get to bent out of shape at Burger King for pulling their "Allah" Ice Cream wrappers.

Here's a clue why they don't. The Koran tells them not to.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

Or, off the top of my head, how about imagining all these riots and protests we see over the cartoons but instead of protesting these cartoons which show the prophet in a negative light, why not have protests against those who show the whole daggum religion in a negative light.

When the world really runs out of patience or when the world gets desperate and has little other resorts, the last resort will be to fear, suspect and guard against ANY Muslims.

At that point it would be too late for the moderate Muslims to protest. Better they should do it now as though their freedom and their lives and their very religion were at stake.

IMHO.

Good points, but more easily said than done. It's difficult to protest against someone who positions themselves as fighting on your behalf, even if you disagree with them.

This is obviously on a completely different scale (as it does not involve terrorism), but where are the Christian protests against the views of Pat Robertson. I know several Christians who are unhappy with the face he puts onto Christianity and the negative light he places it in, yet Christians seem content to allow him to continue speaking on their behalf. Why? Because it's difficult to protest against someone who positions themselves as fighting on your behalf, even if you disagree with them.

[himself]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

Just off the top of my head, why not take every example of the liberals who have opposed the President's election, advisors, actions, inactions, things he's said, things he's not said and then mount the same kinds of protests and write the same kinds of articles and books and cultivate the same kind of media coverage but with a different motivating cause, different posters and signs and flags.

You really oughta take a break from the mainstream American news outlets. There have been plenty of stories and reports about mainstream Muslims speaking out against the violent protests and over-reactions, but they aren't covered to well in the U.S. You definitely won't hear about it if you happen to watch FOX (those types of stories don't make "good news"; folks would much rather hear about Cheney gunning down oblivious lawyers and such). If you hadn't noticed them, you weren't looking in the right places.

Keep in mind... what you see covered by the news everyday doesn't convey everything that goes on in the world. Just because you didn't witness it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

When the world really runs out of patience or when the world gets desperate and has little other resorts, the last resort will be to fear, suspect and guard against ANY Muslims.

Uhh... isn't that where we're at now? Otherwise, I don't think 4 out of 5 threads here would be so obsessed with All Things Islam™. And let's be clear... there has never been a moment in modern history (or history, period) when there wasn't some group that had been viewed as "fear[ed], suspect and guard[ed] against." Muslims are just the new "Them."

At that point it would be too late for the moderate Muslims to protest. Better they should do it now as though their freedom and their lives and their very religion were at stake.

IMHO.

There is more than one way to protest. If you haven't noticed them, you're likely not interested in hearing them anyway.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Good points, but more easily said than done. It's difficult to protest against someone who positions themselves as fighting on your behalf, even if you disagree with them.

Thanks. And for many weeks that has been my understanding as to why they DIDN'T speak out. Because they were being good lion cubs and being still and quiet while their mother moved them from place to place held firmly, but not to firmly, within her giant powerful jaws.

And I have several times here wished our American dems/libs/war protesters/Fuzzies would practice that same discipline, pay that same kind of allegiance to our leaders who are fighting on their behalf, even though they disagree with them.

But as I have wished our leftists could be more like the leftist (???) Muslims, I also wish the leftist or moderate Muslims could take a lesson from our American dissenters. It really is a practical lesson they could benefit from. Just Google it and see exactly how it's done and the effect it can have.

This is obviously on a completely different scale (as it does not involve terrorism), but where are the Christian protests against the views of Pat Robertson. I know several Christians who are unhappy with the face he puts onto Christianity and the negative light he places it in, yet Christians seem content to allow him to continue speaking on their behalf. Why? Because it's difficult to protest against someone who positions themselves as fighting on your behalf, even if you disagree with them.

Well, I agree with the point you make and I agree with you that Robertson's extremism is not completely analogous to terrorism, as you said.

But he IS an example of how displeasure with a certain view or action is dealt with in America.

He ONLY had such a public platform from which to gain followers and celebrity because the things he was saying were popular. Because of that he gained wealth and his organization grew and he was able to form his own TV network.

Well, now that he has said the things he has many people have stopped viewing him. They have stopped making donations. Have stopped their commercial support of his organization/ministry.

But even at his most popular neither he nor anyone else had any illusion that he represented Christianity. He didn't and didn't come close. Nor did he ever try to wrest control of Christianity from any group. Nor was he able to. And finally, he didn't use terrorism or break the law. So he was free to be dealt with by his God, his sponsors and his followers.

The latter forces representing the free market system.

He has suffered. And if he values the organization he still has he will knock off his incindiary remarks.

But if he doesn't then that's his business as long as he doesn't break the law.

Free speech and all that, ya know?

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by himself

You really oughta take a break from the mainstream American news outlets. There have been plenty of stories and reports about mainstream Muslims speaking out against the violent protests and over-reactions, but they aren't covered to well in the U.S. You definitely won't hear about it if you happen to watch FOX (those types of stories don't make "good news"; folks would much rather hear about Cheney gunning down oblivious lawyers and such). If you hadn't noticed them, you weren't looking in the right places.

The proof is in the pudding. If we see a decrease in terrorism and protests then that means it's effective. If we don't then it isn't. While we very well may not see all the anti-OBL protests and etc. we WILL see it when the number of attacks significantly decreases.

Uhh... isn't that where we're at now? Otherwise, I don't think 4 out of 5 threads here would be so obsessed with All Things Islam™. And let's be clear... there has never been a moment in modern history (or history, period) when there wasn't some group that had been viewed as "fear[ed], suspect and guard[ed] against." Muslims are just the new "Them."

This is what I call "The MacNN curve." Which is the amount of time between a news item, event or issue showing up on MacNN or an issue, item or event making it from MacNN to the MSM. Believe it or not there are things said or created here that HAVE gone from here to there. Whether it was a direct connection I don't know. And please don't ask for examples. Just be aware of the things being said here in the P/L and then watch the Sunday morning talk shows like Meet the Press and others. If you are well enough acquainted with the arguments going on here sometimes you will find the debate here is better informed and better argued than by the expert pundits.

About this point in time being the last resort point, I believe we have about 6 months to a year before the rest of the world reaches the level of resolution we have here at MacNN. What might change this timeframe are actions by any of the principals before August...a strike on Iran, for example.

As for having a boogieman, what you say may be true, but there has never been a greater real threat. Last evening I was watching "The Sum of all Fears" and was feeling nostalgic for the Cold War.

Why?

We had at least ONE thing in common with the Russians. We both wanted to live and wanted a better world for our children.

And while I recognize Muslims, of course want to live and want what's best for their children, Muslims the world over are indoctrinating their children to love and want martyrdom!

OBL has said in his speeches he doesn't mind losing 9 of his sons to martyrdom or jihad because he knows 3 will live.

Ahmadinejad has said he looks forward to the end of the world which would mark the return of the Mahdi.

And like we saw from the 9/11 attacks the people who might kill you can be a friendly, nice looking fellow you'd never think would kill a fly. And he is indistinguishable from anyone else.

And, we must not overlook the fact that these guys HAVE ATTACKED US SEVERAL TIMES!

So, rather than this being just the latest boogieman, this one is by far the most worrying. The most dangerous.

There is more than one way to protest. If you haven't noticed them, you're likely not interested in hearing them anyway.

I'm not saying I'm disinterested in the protests or the efforts to eliminate or negate the dangers from Islamists, but I'm MOST interested in the results or the lack of results from those efforts.

[himself]

Originally Posted by aberdeenwriter

The proof is in the pudding. If we see a decrease in terrorism and protests then that means it's effective. If we don't then it isn't. While we very well may not see all the anti-OBL protests and etc. we WILL see it when the number of attacks significantly decreases.

Therein lies the "gotcha..." the terrorists/extremists/agitators don't care what anyone else says or thinks. They have their own agenda, their own measure of success, and they are willing to go farther than anyone else ("martyrdom," for example) to say their piece. There is little that the moderate Muslims can do to placate the extremists, because the moderate Muslims aren't even on their radar. Their sights are set on the "West." Hence, the "West" has to formulate more thoughtful strategies (more thoughtful than "invade and lay the M.E. to waste") if we are truly serious about eliminating terrorism (as if "terrorism" could actually be eliminated, with the way our leaders manage geo-politics today; this is what needs to be modified).

This is what I call "The MacNN curve." Which is the amount of time between a news item, event or issue showing up on MacNN or an issue, item or event making it from MacNN to the MSM. Believe it or not there are things said or created here that HAVE gone from here to there. Whether it was a direct connection I don't know. And please don't ask for examples. Just be aware of the things being said here in the P/L and then watch the Sunday morning talk shows like Meet the Press and others. If you are well enough acquainted with the arguments going on here sometimes you will find the debate here is better informed and better argued than by the expert pundits.

yeah, I can just imagine the new tagline: MacNN: CNN ain't got sh*t on us!

About this point in time being the last resort point, I believe we have about 6 months to a year before the rest of the world reaches the level of resolution we have here at MacNN...

I'm not sure if that is a good thing, or a bad thing. There are a few level-headed "moderates" here, but nearly every argument ends up getting decimated by useless partisan rhetoric and bashing and grandstanding. I would like to hope that we don't have yet more of this to look forward to in our society six months from now. And any new [unprovoked] attacks against another arab nation (i.e., Iran) will blow the current situation into extremely dire straits.

As for having a boogieman, what you say may be true, but there has never been a greater real threat. Last evening I was watching "The Sum of all Fears" and was feeling nostalgic for the Cold War.

Why?

We had at least ONE thing in common with the Russians. We both wanted to live and wanted a better world for our children.

And while I recognize Muslims, of course want to live and want what's best for their children, Muslims the world over are indoctrinating their children to love and want martyrdom!

OBL has said in his speeches he doesn't mind losing 9 of his sons to martyrdom or jihad because he knows 3 will live.

Ahmadinejad has said he looks forward to the end of the world which would mark the return of the Mahdi.

And like we saw from the 9/11 attacks the people who might kill you can be a friendly, nice looking fellow you'd never think would kill a fly. And he is indistinguishable from anyone else.

And, we must not overlook the fact that these guys HAVE ATTACKED US SEVERAL TIMES!

So, rather than this being just the latest boogieman, this one is by far the most worrying. The most dangerous.

It easy to think the cold war era was "better times," because we survived that. Hindsight being 20/20 and all... But this situation can be overcome to. It takes people from the "civilized" parts of the world (those who are among the targeted in the "West", and have power over foreign policy) to stop beating their chest and actually sit down and analyze the situation, and make a sincere effort to make things right. Example, the U.S. cannot be taken seriously with talk about spreading democracy when the government supports an oppressive government like that in Saudi Arabia, or when the president refers to Iran as a member of the "new axis of evil" when the citizens there were desperate for a real secular democracy and a relationship with the U.S. (this is before the recent elections). Actions like that are likely to push people away, when we need to be bringing those same folks to the side of moderation.

But I'm not convinced this is the biggest "threat" we have faced. The cold war was pretty big. Not knowing what the future held at the time, and with all of the nuclear stockpiling, everyone was scared sh*tless that they would be wiped off of the face of the earth in a shower of nuclear warheads. Just as we survived that, we can survive this as well. All it takes is some real leadership (on all sides) and true cooperation.

I'm not saying I'm disinterested in the protests or the efforts to eliminate or negate the dangers from Islamists, but I'm MOST interested in the results or the lack of results from those efforts.

Counter-protesting is not a science. Moderate muslims protesting en-masse won't guarantee a positive outcome, if any change at all. We can encourage them to be more vocal, I'm all for that, but what is needed more than anything is more coverage. They are out there, but they are not out in the streets in equal numbers, but they have been consistently speaking out against these reactionaries. You have to consider, in our knee-jerk reactionary world, Muslims protesting in large numbers (even if thoroughly peaceful) will draw all kinds of suspicion and scrutiny. And seeing as there are no lack of Islamophobes in the western world, I would fully expect someone would attempt to sabotage the attempt. But it doesn't mean they shouldn't try. I just wouldn't bank on counter-protesting achieving the desired goal.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by himself

Therein lies the "gotcha..." the terrorists/extremists/agitators don't care what anyone else says or thinks. They have their own agenda, their own measure of success, and they are willing to go farther than anyone else ("martyrdom," for example) to say their piece. There is little that the moderate Muslims can do to placate the extremists, because the moderate Muslims aren't even on their radar. Their sights are set on the "West." Hence, the "West" has to formulate more thoughtful strategies (more thoughtful than "invade and lay the M.E. to waste") if we are truly serious about eliminating terrorism (as if "terrorism" could actually be eliminated, with the way our leaders manage geo-politics today; this is what needs to be modified).

What's your plan?

I'm not sure if that is a good thing, or a bad thing. There are a few level-headed "moderates" here, but nearly every argument ends up getting decimated by useless partisan rhetoric and bashing and grandstanding. I would like to hope that we don't have yet more of this to look forward to in our society six months from now. And any new [unprovoked] attacks against another arab nation (i.e., Iran) will blow the current situation into extremely dire straits.

Whatever the time frame is or might be all we can do is to keep trying and never give up the hope and efforts to achieve peace.

I am well aware of the end times scenario envisioned by Ahmadinejad. I know there are any number of power brokers to deal with in some fashion and that includes individuals who are willing to trade their own life if they can annihilate a large American city, as well as national leaders who have ambitions that include an end to ALL human life on Earth.

I am aware that there is a call for the Muslim nation to cover the world with Islam and have everyone worship Allah. I know there is a sense of patience that some Muslims feel about this call to conquer but there are others who envision a Muslim Caliphate...global Islamic domination, within our lifetimes. And some Muslims are committed to be the tip of the spear to make this happen.

And I'm aware that there are hundreds of thousands of the faithful as well as hundreds of thousands of trained Iranian soldiers who are willing to become terrorist martyrs.

And with these kinds of adversaries poised and ready to act there is every reason for pessimism.

Example, the U.S. cannot be taken seriously with talk about spreading democracy when the government supports an oppressive government like that in Saudi Arabia, or when the president refers to Iran as a member of the "new axis of evil" when the citizens there were desperate for a real secular democracy and a relationship with the U.S. (this is before the recent elections). Actions like that are likely to push people away, when we need to be bringing those same folks to the side of moderation.

What to do...what to do? We can not, we will not sever our ties with the only major oil producing country, (the one with the greatest oil reserves), with whom we have such a harmonious relationship. There are relationships between people that can have quite serious problems without the relationship ending and as much as our leaders realize the ugly teachings going on there, I hope because of our relationship we will be able to convince the government and the Saudi people to abandon their evil ways.

If you have a cow that gives copious amounts of sweet, delicious milk even though she tramples your daisies and sh!ts in your petunias you make certain allowances.

The Iranian people may be lovely, but just as we have to deal with al Qaeda and terrorists, specifically, since they are the ones who have the ability and the will to inflict harm, so we must try to deal with the threat posed by the Iranian government, specifically.

If the West launches an attack on Iran the Iranian government will command the people to go to war against us but the fact is that if Iran were able to be trusted there would be no objection by the world to their having a nuclear program.

However, the bottom line is that if they proceed beyond a certain point an attack will be necessary.

To do nothing in the face of their obvious escalation and their obvious intent to eliminate the State of Israel would make the US and any other body with the power to prevent it, complicit in whatever death and destruction occurred.

But I'm not convinced this is the biggest "threat" we have faced. The cold war was pretty big. Not knowing what the future held at the time, and with all of the nuclear stockpiling, everyone was scared sh*tless that they would be wiped off of the face of the earth in a shower of nuclear warheads. Just as we survived that, we can survive this as well. All it takes is some real leadership (on all sides) and true cooperation.

If there were some MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) threat that might act as a failsafe then perhaps I'd be less worried. But there is absolutely NOTHING I can see that would represent a down side for Ahmadinejad.

Let's say Iran continues building a nuclear program to the point when we would HAVE to act, here is one possible scenario.

If we attack Iran we won't probably get all their sites. The Iranian leadership orders a Fatwa and hundreds of thousands of trained as well as impromptu Holy believers answer the call all over the world to strike at the US and/or Israel and/or Britain and etc.

Ahmadinejad gets his Holy War and we leave Iran a smoking crater. Sleeper terrorists touch off the WMD's in their possession. Some already pre-positioned in the US. Some, aboard commercial ships at sea. We begin suffering attack after attack. But, after Iran has been cratered and the attacks on us continue, how do we protect ourselves? Who do we target for attack?

Counter-protesting is not a science. Moderate muslims protesting en-masse won't guarantee a positive outcome, if any change at all. We can encourage them to be more vocal, I'm all for that, but what is needed more than anything is more coverage. They are out there, but they are not out in the streets in equal numbers, but they have been consistently speaking out against these reactionaries. You have to consider, in our knee-jerk reactionary world, Muslims protesting in large numbers (even if thoroughly peaceful) will draw all kinds of suspicion and scrutiny. And seeing as there are no lack of Islamophobes in the western world, I would fully expect someone would attempt to sabotage the attempt. But it doesn't mean they shouldn't try. I just wouldn't bank on counter-protesting achieving the desired goal.

There are any numbers of reasons why protesting wouldn't work and moderate Muslims would want to do it, but until they see that it is the least odious of all other options they won't want to take whatever risks there might be.

I'd say if they called the local Police and the local network affiliated TV station and told them what they were going to do, they would get police protection and news coverage.

If you were trying to save you children's life what WOULDN'T you do to save them?

This might be along those lines. You can only do what you can do but because it may not be successful doesn't mean you shouldn't do it anyway.

One of our posters volunteered to go to Ohio last Presidential election and get the vote out. I think some of our posters believed it was a futile cause, working for Kerry. And many posters believed their vote wouldn't count anyway so why bother.

But you must never lose hope and you must always permit hope a chance to work. You just do everything you can and then you can live or die with whatever happens. You fight to the end.

I am pessimistic but I don't intend to stop trying.

[Buckaroo]

Anyone seen any new cartoons?

[yakkiebah]

No, but found something else that might interest you.

The Muslim Madonna
No, it's not only about cartoons - it is also about the rise of women in the tribal-religious Islamic world.

The whole thing, the violence, the hatred, the hysterical agression, is about the male Muslim fear of female sexuality and female sexual awakening.

Ayaan is not only hated because she is a dissident, but because she is a woman, and a black woman on top of that. Traditional Muslim men are enraged by the seduction by Western individualism, which is giving women an equal position, also in sexual terms, to men. The whole tribal-Beduin code of honor and shame is being attacked by the West, they feel. And they are right.

Now, a beautiful and courageous and young Muslim singer, Deeyah, already described as the Muslim Madonna, is revealing her body from under a burqa in a great video.

'A Muslim pop singer has been forced to hire bodyguards to protect her during a visit to Britain next month after she received a string of death threats from religious extremists.' (The Independent)

'Deeyah, an Iranian pop-singer now in Britain and hailed as the Muslim Madonna, has a new video out. It's a pop screed against the hideous abuse of women sanctioned by unreconstructed Islam. Of course, she's had death threats and now has to be accompanied by bodyguards. But she's still expressing herself. Here's her website. Send her love.' (Andrew Sullivan)

Persian Journal reports:

'The singer, who was born in Norway but moved to the UK after her act alienated her from the Muslim community, has been forced to cancel performances and hire a team of bodyguards after inciting anger from British Muslims as well.

"I can't walk around without bodyguards. I would be lying if I said abuse from religious fanatics did not upset or scare me," the 28-year-old, dubbed as the 'Muslim Madonna' was quoted by Contactmusic, as saying.'

Patients suffering from religious schizoid paranioa can be enraged by a cartoon, a female mouth, a Christian bible, by virtually everything that they associate wth their sensibilities - which are boundless.

See her video here.

And here is another nice video of the nutballs who were protesting in London a few weeks back...

A hot muslim chick vs. bearded cavemen

[glyph]

Har har har! Yuk yuk! I wanna see one with Lyndie England shoving a stick up Mohammads bum!

[PacHead]

Do these two guys have huge balls or what ? At a Muslim demonstration in Paris against the cartoons, these two infidels decide to attend it while carrying Free Speech and support Denmark signs. See the video:

http://labaf.blogspot.com/2006/02/la...mistes-english

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Do these two guys have huge balls or what ? At a Muslim demonstration in Paris against the cartoons, these two infidels decide to attend it while carrying Free Speech and support Denmark signs. See the video:

http://labaf.blogspot.com/2006/02/la...mistes-english

Two mayor thumbsup to these guys. viva la liberté

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by glyph

Har har har! Yuk yuk! I wanna see one with Lyndie England shoving a stick up Mohammads bum!

Well, this does come as a bit of a shock. Your America-bashing never gave a clue to your aberrant viewing tastes. So, you like that sort of thing, eh?

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

No, but found something else that might interest you.



See her video here.

And here is another nice video of the nutballs who were protesting in London a few weeks back...

A hot muslim chick vs. bearded cavemen

Your post made me think poetically...




Meet

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Do these two guys have huge balls or what ? At a Muslim demonstration in Paris against the cartoons, these two infidels decide to attend it while carrying Free Speech and support Denmark signs. See the video:

http://labaf.blogspot.com/2006/02/la...mistes-english

Un...be...lievable...

I can't tell you how creepy it was watching that. Gutsy little cowboys, weren't they?

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Un...be...lievable...

I can't tell you how creepy it was watching that. Gutsy little cowboys, weren't they?

And I loved how that grey-bearded guy in the blue jacket was crying out, "They provked us, they provoked us!"

[Sky Captain]

Mighty tollerant and supportive of free speech aren't that.(the moozlem "protesters")

We have men who cover their faces here in the U.S.
But they use white hoods. All are cowards.

[glyph]

Well, this does come as a bit of a shock. Your America-bashing never gave a clue to your aberrant viewing tastes. So, you like that sort of thing, eh?

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by glyph

[IMG]http://www.socialnerve.org/art/latuff/Vet09.gif

Well, let's trade grotesque heart rending emotionally provocative images, shall we? And we could very well match your heart breaking with one from my point of view. But who are we trying to kid here?

You see, only women, children and weak hearted men are unable to rise above their emotions to see the wisdom of a decision and stay a necessary course. And only cheap opportunists resort to such tactics. So, you go right ahead with your blatant attempts at manipulation.

You will probably have some children here in tears.

It figures.

[glyph]

What's the fuss? First one is really funny. Anyhoo, I'd just like to apologise if I offended anybody. How could I have been so inconsiderate. There oughta be a law.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by glyph

What's the fuss? First one is really funny. Anyhoo, I'd just like to apologise if I offended anybody. How could I have been so inconsiderate. There oughta be a law.

Nahhh. We see that creating a law to govern that sort of offense results in people acting like mad dogs. That sort of law is not the wisest policy.

[moodymonster]

little 'satirical' cartoon about the cartoons.

WARNING - got a bit of swearing in it by a purple ...thing, and insults all religions. Probably NSFW, depends where you work.

http://www.zipperfish.net/free/yaafm12.php

If you are offended - I did warn you.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by moodymonster

little 'satirical' cartoon about the cartoons.

WARNING - got a bit of swearing in it by a purple ...thing, and insults all religions. Probably NSFW, depends where you work.

http://www.zipperfish.net/free/yaafm12.php

If you are offended - I did warn you.

I think this cartoon says what millions of Americans feel. And it makes good points, although I don't agree with every assertion.

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

[Jawbone54]

Another perfectionist melancholy, I see.

[Sky Captain]

Mardi Gras...

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Mardi Gras...

[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/payphonebone/Mobombhead.jpg

THAT IS FUNNY!

[Chongo]

Sorry for the zombie thread. This is today's (01/19/08) Bizarro