[The Godfather]

I say we bring back forced labor to the prison, not as a punishment, but as a way to pay their own subsistence. Prisoners could do hard work that's not aimless like chipping rocks, but they could build houses and grow tomatoes as a State-owned contracting entity. The prisoners could wear a GPS leash, and be away from free civilians at all times.

This way, no taxes would have to be diverted toward their room, board, and healthcare. It also would remove the biggest excuse for Capital Punishment: "we shouldn't spend 1 extra dollar for her jailing". How does that sound?

[Doofy]

I really wouldn't want to live in a house which has been built by prisoners - I have a hard enough time trust normal workmen to do the job properly.

I say we pop them in big hamster wheels and generate some electricity. Heck, if they work long and hard enough at it one day they might become governor of Cali.

[JoshuaZ]

The State of South Dakota used prisoners to wire the High Schools in my city with ethernet. Can't say it was the best job ever.

[vmarks]

Some prisons do trash collection on highways with prisoners. Some teach them auto shop and have them repair cars that are then sold.

Some prisons are farms.

[Spliffdaddy]

"I say we pop them in big hamster wheels and generate some electricity. Heck, if they work long and hard enough at it one day they might become governor of Cali."

Or mayor of Washington DC.

I think a better way would be to rent them out to private businesses. Most prisoners would volunteer to work for free. I've seen plenty of them volunteer to pick up trash beside highways - just so they could see sunlight.

[The Godfather]

Yea, but working for free is not going to pay the prison utility bills. The point here is that a prison could stop being a burden on tax payers.

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

Yea, but working for free is not going to pay the prison utility bills. The point here is that a prison could stop being a burden on tax payers.

Well, working for free is helping the tax payer. Oiling a road, picking up trash, doing gardening. Its all work you'd have to pay someone else, privately, a lot more for. So its saving money.

I'm all for teaching real life job skills in prison. If someone learns how to fix a car, or do gardening, or even clerical work in prison is means he/she will have those skills to use in the outside world.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

"I say we pop them in big hamster wheels and generate some electricity. Heck, if they work long and hard enough at it one day they might become governor of Cali."

Or mayor of Washington DC.

/Watches as Conan The Barbarian reference flies over Spliffy's head.

[BRussell]

I'm involved with a non-profit agency that has prisoners get jobs (a lot of construction, roofing, landscaping, dishwashing, etc.), and then they pay their room and board, and any restitution. It gets some state grant funds, but the vast majority of its funding comes from the jobs of the offenders.

Obviously these are only low-risk offenders, and they have to be approved by the Department of Corrections. But with prison overcrowding, there are plenty of takers.

[The Godfather]

Please define low-risk offenders.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

Please define low-risk offenders.

I'm just taking a stab in the dark here ... but I'd be guessing non-violent offenders and chronic "petty crime" offenders.

[The Godfather]

So, only a very tiny fraction of prisoners would be allowed to to forced labor?

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

So, only a very tiny fraction of prisoners would be allowed to to forced labor?

Yes, and the others will spend their day finely chopping garlic so it disolves just right when it hits the olive oil for the sauce, while someone else minds the pasta. Haven't any of you seen Goodfellas?

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

Please define low-risk offenders.

Yeah, as Krusty says, non-violent. Or, if violent, things like assault or domestic abuse rather than murder. And that includes majority of offenders. I'm not saying this is the only or best way, I'm just telling you my experience.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

"I say we pop them in big hamster wheels and generate some electricity. Heck, if they work long and hard enough at it one day they might become governor of Cali."

Or mayor of Washington DC.

I think a better way would be to rent them out to private businesses. Most prisoners would volunteer to work for free. I've seen plenty of them volunteer to pick up trash beside highways - just so they could see sunlight.

That would only work if the prisoner didn't have to leave the prison itself to do the work. I believe prisoners already work at call centers from within their facility. Taking them offsite would probably require too much security for their work to be much benefit.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

I say we bring back forced labor to the prison, not as a punishment, but as a way to pay their own subsistence. Prisoners could do hard work that's not aimless like chipping rocks, but they could build houses and grow tomatoes as a State-owned contracting entity. The prisoners could wear a GPS leash, and be away from free civilians at all times.

This way, no taxes would have to be diverted toward their room, board, and healthcare. It also would remove the biggest excuse for Capital Punishment: "we shouldn't spend 1 extra dollar for her jailing". How does that sound?

And who would watch over the wardens and guards so there would be no abuse.

Here is a good way to bring back corruption and abuse into the prison system.

I wish I was a genius and I knew how to rehabilitate prisoners. But, I am not. I just know there was so much abuse and corruption before. I am afraid with this method you are invinting it back.

[Rumor]

Why not ship them to Mexico? Pretty soon there won't be any Mexicans there anyways.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

Why not ship them to Mexico? Pretty soon there won't be any Mexicans there anyways.

What's with you guys and Mexicans these days?

[RAILhead]

Maybe if Canada was being infested with illegal Mexicans, you'd understand.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Maybe if Canada was being infested with illegal Mexicans, you'd understand.

Do you know any Latino? Or you were always a racist.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Monique 

Do you know any Latino? Or you were always a racist.

What's racist about my comment? They're mexicans because they're from Mexico, the ones I'm talking about are here illegally, and they're coming in numbers so large and taking over so many resources, it's like an infestation.

Pretty plain and simple to me.

And yes, I know a lot of Mexicans, a few Argentineans, a Colombian, and loads of blacks. Are you happy now?

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Monique 

Do you know any Latino? Or you were always a racist.

Asking if he knows any Latinos is like asking if he knows any white people.

Oh, I'm Puerto Rican btw.

[Rumor]

back on topic

Don't the prisons in California make license plates?

[kmkkid]

Yes. They should sustain themselves. They should live like Mennonites, no power, grow they're own food, and harvest their own food. That way it's not costing us anything except for guards and the electricity to keep them locked inside the compound.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

Yes. They should sustain themselves. They should live like Mennonites, no power, grow they're own food, and harvest their own food. That way it's not costing us anything except for guards and the electricity to keep them locked inside the compound.

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing.

Even if it isn't feasible for them all to be doing 'regular' jobs on the outside, the rest could still work, and still ease the cost of prisons, by doing things like farming on prison grounds to feed the prisoner population.

[Buckaroo]

Let the prisoners do the job that the illegal aliens are doing. Put the prisoners out in the fields picking food, and send the illegal aliens back to MEXICO.

[puppetswhokill]

....

[puppetswhokill]

Wasn't there a prison in Equador or someplace that was run by the prisoners?

[Nicko]

Wow, between the astronomically high prison population and estimated ~15million illegal immegrants, the US is well on its way to permanently creating an underclass of subcitizens with no rights whose only purpose is slave labour... no needed really, because its already a reality.




-----
August 18, 2003 edition

US notches world's highest incarceration rate
A report highlights extent to which many citizens have served time in prison.
By Gail Russell Chaddock | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
WASHINGTON – More than 5.6 million Americans are in prison or have served time there, according to a new report by the Justice Department released Sunday. That's 1 in 37 adults living in the United States, the highest incarceration level in the world.

It's the first time the US government has released estimates of the extent of imprisonment, and the report's statistics have broad implications for everything from state fiscal crises to how other nations view the American experience.
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12/02/02
Opinion: End of the prison boom?
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If current trends continue, it means that a black male in the United States would have about a 1 in 3 chance of going to prison during his lifetime. For a Hispanic male, it's 1 in 6; for a white male, 1 in 17.

The numbers come after many years of get-tough policies - and years when violent-crime rates have generally fallen. But to some observers, they point to broader failures in US society, particularly in regard to racial minorities and others who are economically disadvantaged.

"These new numbers are shocking enough, but what we don't see are the ripple effects of what they mean: For the generation of black children today, there's almost an inevitable aspect of going to prison," says Marc Mauer, assistant director of The Sentencing Project, a nonprofit advocacy group based in Washington. "We have the wealthiest society in human history, and we maintain the highest level of imprisonment. It's striking what that says about our approach to social problems and inequality."

Numbering in the millions

Justice Department analysts say that experts in criminal justice have long known of the stark disparities in prison experience, but they have never been as fully documented. By the end of year 2001, some 1,319,000 adults were confined in state or federal prisons. An estimated 4,299,000 former prisoners are still alive, the new report concludes.

"What we are seeing is a substantial involvement of the public in the criminal-justice system. It raises a lot of questions in the national dialogue on everything from voting and sentencing to priorities related to state's expenditures," says Allen Beck, chief of correction statistics at the Bureau of Justice Statistics, who directed the report.

Nor does the impact of incarceration end with the sentence. Former inmates can be excluded from receiving public assistance, living in public housing, or receiving financial aid for college. Ex-felons are prohibited from voting in many states. And with the increased use of background checks - especially since 9/11 - they may be permanently locked out of jobs in many professions, including education, child care, driving a bus, or working in a nursing home.

Enfranchisement for ex-felons

More than 4 million prisoners or former prisoners are denied a right to vote; in 12 states, that ban is for life.

"That's why racial profiling has become such a priority issue for African-Americans, because it is the gateway to just such a statistic," says Yvonne Scruggs- Leftwich, chief operating officer of the Black Leadership Forum, in Washington. "It means that large numbers in the African-American community are disenfranchised, sometimes permanently."

Some states are already scaling back prohibitions or limits on voting affecting former inmates, including Maryland, Delaware, New Mexico, and Texas.

In addition, critics say that efforts to purge voting rolls of former felons could lead to abuses, and effectively disenfranchise many minority voters.

"On the day of the 2000 [presidential] election, there were an estimated 600,000 former felons who had completed their sentence yet because of Florida's restrictive laws were unable to vote," says Mr. Mauer of the Sentencing Project.

The new report also informs - but does not settle - one of the toughest debates in American politics: whether high rates of imprisonment are related to a drop in crime rates over the past decade.

The prison population has quadrupled since 1980. Much of that surge is the result of public policy, such as the war on drugs and mandatory minimum sentencing. Nearly 1 in 4 of the inmates in federal and state prisons are there because of drug-related offenses, most of them nonviolent.

Narcotic-related arrests

New drug policies have especially affected incarceration rates for women, which have increased at nearly double the rate for men since 1980. Nearly 1 in 3 women in prison today are serving sentences for drug-related crimes.

"A lot of people think that the reason crime rates have been dropping over the past several years is, in part, because we're incarcerating the people most likely to commit crimes," says Stephan Thernstrom, a historian at Harvard University.

Others say the drop has more to do with factors such as a generally healthy economy in the 1990s, more opportunity for urban youth, or better community policing.

But no one disagrees that prison experience will be a part of the lives of more and more Americans. By 2010, the number of American residents in prison or with prison experience is expected to jump to 7.7 million, or 3.4 percent of all adults, according to the new report.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by puppetswhokill 

Ask Railroader about that one. Calling one a Mexican IS racist.

No, calling them a Spic would be racist... Calling them a Mexican is no different from calling someone an American or a Brit.

[Rumor]

For some reason, prison just read as pigeon.

"Pigeons ought to be self supporting"

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by puppetswhokill 

Ask Railroader about that one. Calling one a Mexican IS racist.

Not to any of the Mexicans I know.

[kmkkid]

Just call them 'The Peoples of Central America' and be done with it.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

Just call them 'The Peoples of Central America' and be done with it.

Are they anything like the People under the Stairs?

[puppetswhokill]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

Just call them 'The Peoples of Central America' and be done with it.

Aren't they Kansans and such?

[TheWOAT]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

Just call them 'The Peoples of Central America' and be done with it.

Mexico is not part of Central America.

Originally Posted by puppetswhokill 

Ask Railroader about that one. Calling one a Mexican IS racist.

I myself being Mexican, that statement above I do consider as racist.

[Your Mama]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

Yea, but working for free is not going to pay the prison utility bills. The point here is that a prison could stop being a burden on tax payers.

That's what the death penalty is for.

Uhm, no, wait, nevermind.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Let the prisoners do the job that the illegal aliens are doing. Put the prisoners out in the fields picking food, and send the illegal aliens back to MEXICO.

The best part about this entire debate is whether the Mexicans are in Mexico or the US, American's are still going to be sending money to the "illegals". A lot of outsourcing is done to Mexico.

Oh, and I don't want prisoners picking my food.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by puppetswhokill 

Ask Railroader about that one. Calling one a Mexican IS racist.

Ummmm no. No body gets mad at me when I call a Potato a Potato, a truck a truck, or a Swede a Swede.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Not to any of the Mexicans I know.

Originally Posted by TheWOAT 

I myself being Mexican, that statement above I do consider as racist.

Originally Posted by goMac 

Ummmm no. No body gets mad at me when I call a Potato a Potato, a truck a truck, or a Swede a Swede.

Don't worry, I never said or implied such a thing. This person is being purposefully dishonest. If you want I can dig up some old threads setting the record striaght.

Someone has a bone to pick.

Originally Posted by puppetswhokill 

Ask Railroader about that one. Calling one a Mexican IS racist.

HUH?!?! Quit being dishonest.

BTW: Nice new nickname.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by TheWOAT 

Mexico is not part of Central America.



I myself being Mexican, that statement above I do consider as racist.

I had always been under the impression that the southern part of mexico was included in central america.


But to please you, we'll call them "the peoples of the southern most part of north america"

[The Godfather]

No. If you meet a non-Mexican hispanic and you call her a "Mexican", that is (1) idiotic and (2) racist.

[Cody Dawg]

How did I miss this great thread?

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

No. If you meet a non-Mexican hispanic and you call her a "Mexican", that is (1) idiotic and (2) racist.

And if you meet a non-Latin Mexican?

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

No. If you meet a non-Mexican hispanic and you call her a "Mexican", that is (1) idiotic and (2) racist.

I would be offended if someone called me Mexican. Nothing against Mexicans, but I'm Puerto Rican and there is a massive difference.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

Nothing against Mexicans, but I'm Puerto Rican and there is a massive difference.

You have US citizenship?

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

You have US citizenship?

Puerto Rico is a territory. We don't immigrate. We just buy a plane ticket for $99 and relocate to New York.

(I was born in Hawaii)

[Cody Dawg]

Rumor

I would be offended if someone called me Mexican. Nothing against Mexicans, but I'm Puerto Rican and there is a massive difference.

Because of the fact that Puerto Ricans all drive around in souped up older model Japanese cars and have little flags hanging from the rear view mirror and Mexicans don't?



Hawaii is cool to be from...you're not a haole.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg 

Because of the fact that Puerto Ricans all drive around in souped up older model Japanese cars and have little flags hanging from the rear view mirror and Mexicans don't?



Hawaii is cool to be from...you're not a haole.

Hmm, interesting stereotype. Not entirely accurate though. It depends on the age group.

[Dakar²]

Everything I need to know about stereotypes I learned from the Fast & the Furious.