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Suggestions for a purely technical forum
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Simon
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Nov 23, 2008, 05:06 AM
 
I feel that lately the tech side of this board has received less attention while the "social areas" and topics seem to be gaining. I have also noted that certain technical forums have suffered from a spillover of bad manners and lack of etiquette which seem to be customary for certain Lounge denizens. I am strongly apposed to these tendencies. I believe there are IRC channels for personal conversations and chats, there are places like MySpace and Facebook for social exchange, and there are real life friends for well, friends. This board should not be a social gathering. This board should serve a technical purpose. It should host discussions on Mac and tech related discussions, it should be a repository of tips and advice, and it should be a place where facts come before opinions, personal preferences, or clique for that matter. Also, social forums are not required to attract members that can give technical advice. Experience shows that the most active "social posters" rarely offer useful technical advice. Participants on a tech board should see the technical discussions as the cookie, not the burden.

I believe one very efficient way to redirect this misguided focus is to terminate the social forums, reduce all forms of personalization, and put more emphasis on technical forums. In terms of specific measures I suggest the following, listed from most to least relevant.

• Remove post counts entirely. They encourage the wrong posting attitude.

• +1 style posts or derailing lead to a single final warning. Recurring offenders receive two week bans.

• Remove stars, ranks, and titles. Leave only proper designations like Mod or Admin.

• Remove all signatures. Names of people who are especially competent will stick out by themselves. Enjoy the reduced bandwidth bill.

• Close the PWL.

• Open a new Lounge solely for topics that do not really fit other forums, but restrict all discussions to purely technical matters. Politics, religion, personal matters, etc. are not tolerated. If they pop up in other threads or forums, they are deleted and the poster gets a two week ban.

• Ad-hominem attacks, spite, or groups of posters ganging up on others are no longer tolerated at all. All personal attacks immediately lead to a two week ban. Recurring offenders are permabanned.

• Chatting in threads leads to a warning. Recurring offenders get two week vacations.

• The rules make crystal clear that people are not to register more than one handle. All known secondary handles are permabanned w/o further warning. If the mods have good reason to believe somebody is hiding behind a secondary handle (including ban evasion) that handle plus the primary get permabanned without further warning.

These measures should reduce the incentives for post whoring, thread crapping, OT posting, and ganging up of certain member groups against others. The "social" elements that water down or interfere with technical issues will be minimized. I truly believe there should be only one way to get a reputation here: through solid tech advice or insightful posting. And there are several members who have already done that. If somebody repeatedly posts good advice, people will remember the name. If you want to find out about another member you can look at his previous posts (as easy as a right click on a user name) and make up your own mind. No stars or post count figures give a more accurate picture.

I am aware some of these issues might be controversial. Nevertheless, I believe they are worthy of an objective discussion.
     
rickey939
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Nov 23, 2008, 10:58 AM
 
Sounds good!
     
calverson
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Nov 23, 2008, 11:24 AM
 
The whole purpose of the lounge is not to be technical.

I think that if what Simon suggests was done, the amount of pageviews and ad revenue that MacNN receives would decline, and it would become a niche forum.

I don't think that anyone is going to do anything that will directly lower their web-based income.
     
besson3c
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Nov 23, 2008, 12:05 PM
 
Simon: isn't being an avid Mac user, or an avid user of just about anything social in its nature? Isn't this why Mac user groups exist - so that people can meet amongst other like-minded individuals for social reasons? Are the "here is what my Desktop looks like" threads technical or social?

The Mac will always be an area of common ground, what binds us together, but it does not have to be central to every discussion. If it was, like calverson said, the interest and excitement of MacNN would diminish greatly. How many threads have been created posing the same questions about viruses, repairing your disk with Disk Warrior, etc.? Not only would activity be reduced a great deal, but the repetitive nature of some of the technical questions will drive away those of us that have answered/read/dealt with those threads before - there needs to be something in it for all kinds of Mac user, this place needs to remain flexible.

Take me, for instance... I'm a Mac user, have been for years, that's where I started, it's sort of part of my computing DNA... However, I'm far more interested in Linux/Unix servers these days. If, hypothetically speaking, there were no threads about these things (as it stands they are fairly rare), would I essentially be unwelcome here if I couldn't find something that interested me?

Our interests all grow, wander, and diverge. There may be several people in here that are well established members of MacNN whose lives and jobs have wandered away from the world of all things Mac. Are they of little use to a place like this if they can't contribute to technical discussion?

I think the solution is pretty simple: if you are interested in technical discussion, monitor the non-lounge areas. Maybe there are even vBulletin plugs that allow email subscriptions to particular sections of the forum, I don't know. For the rest of us that are also interested in community, we have the lounge.
     
Cold Warrior
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Nov 23, 2008, 12:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Maybe there are even vBulletin plugs that allow email subscriptions to particular sections of the forum, I don't know.
One can subscribe to specific forums and get daily emails or subscribe to specific threads for instant notifications. I wouldn't mind an option for instant emails on new threads in an entire forum, but I imagine that might be too server-intensive.
     
Simon  (op)
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Nov 23, 2008, 12:15 PM
 
Just to make myself absolutely clear. Linux, Unix, Xbox, Segways, etc. is all technical. So are Mac desktop images. That would all still be here. It's politics, religion, and personal life that would be gone.
     
besson3c
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Nov 23, 2008, 12:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
One can subscribe to specific forums and get daily emails or subscribe to specific threads for instant notifications. I wouldn't mind an option for instant emails on new threads in an entire forum, but I imagine that might be too server-intensive.
Yeah, I hear you. The notion of putting a copy of a single message in everybody's mailbox always seems like a silly way of getting information out there in comparison to RSS. Users who are wanting to ignore the Lounge could simply subscribe to the areas they are interested in via RSS.
     
besson3c
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Nov 23, 2008, 12:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Just to make myself absolutely clear. Linux, Unix, Xbox, Segways, etc. is all technical. So are Mac desktop images. That would all still be here. It's politics, religion, and personal life that would be gone.
Do you think that people that go to a Macworld, for instance, and meet friends don't talk about these things?
     
Laminar
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Nov 23, 2008, 01:15 PM
 
I'd like to see some examples of how the awful personal side of things has spilled into and seriously diminished the technical side of the forums. If you want something purely technical, go hang out at Apple's boards.
     
scaught
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Nov 23, 2008, 03:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I am aware some of these issues might be controversial. Nevertheless, I believe they are worthy of an objective discussion.
Sounds like you got an idea for a messageboard, but it would be nigh-impossible to turn this ship around at this point.
     
Railroader
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Nov 24, 2008, 12:07 AM
 
Why do you post in the lounge Simon. If you hate something so much, why do you spend time there?
     
brassplayersrock²
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Nov 24, 2008, 03:15 AM
 
This place wouldn't be any fun if you're (the OP) ways are implemented.
     
Simon  (op)
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Nov 24, 2008, 03:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Why do you post in the lounge Simon. If you hate something so much, why do you spend time there?
Originally Posted by Simon
I have also noted that certain technical forums have suffered from a spillover of bad manners and lack of etiquette which seem to be customary for certain Lounge denizens.
[quote from the very first post]

Note also that none of this has to do with hate. These are suggestions to make this a better technical board.
     
Simon  (op)
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Nov 24, 2008, 04:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Do you think that people that go to a Macworld, for instance, and meet friends don't talk about these things?
I'm sure they do. But usually when you talk to friends you are polite. And even when you talk to strangers you usually treat them with a certain respect. On boards this is different. People chose a tone and say things they would otherwise never use face to face with the people they're talking to. Partly it is due to the fact that we are not all friends. We chose our friends. This board however is anonymous. And you have to deal with whoever is here. That's fundamentally different from a little chitchat you have with your friends. Another issue is maturity. Or rather a lack thereof. Users hiding behind their anonymity will act in a way they never would at your little Macworld gathering.

I'm not at all against these topics per se. But this isn't a voluntary gathering of frieds. It's an anonymous group of random persons on a board. Politics, religion, etc. usually end up in bickering or insults. There's more than enough proof in the Lounge. And that's why I want these issues banned. Not from our lives, but from this board.
( Last edited by Simon; Nov 24, 2008 at 04:09 AM. )
     
Maflynn
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Nov 24, 2008, 08:56 AM
 
I've been contemplating the OP's recommendations and it seems Simon if you don't like something don't do it. If the lounge activity doesn't lite your fuse, then don't frequent the forum.

I do think that the lounge as gotten a little out of hand with some a fair amount of nonesense threads, such as besson's abnormal obsession with feces, but I just skip by them or any other thread that may have a subject matter the doesn't matter to me.. Using Besson as an example, he and others seem to enjoy those threads so I just move on. To that end, I find myself posting less in the lounge - for the most part - because I've been enjoying the contributing to the technical forums. That doesn't mean I advocate we kill off the lounge, just because I'm in there less.

If you want a forum of purely technical merit, I suggest you head over to apple discussion forums, or another mac forum. You'll see those are small and the activity level is lower because there's less sense of a community. If you feel that strongly you could start your own Mac (or technical) forum and craft it in your own image.

As for post counts, it really doesn't bother me that there are any. There's certainly people who are posting whores and there numbers are inflated but there's also a bunch of people who have posted quality and quantity. To be honest, how cares how many starts you have in comparison to others.

I like the sig rules, and personally I think it would be a huge step back if 'NN abolished sigs completely.

The bottom line all that you are recommending have helped build up 'NN to what it is now, and removing them (lounge, post counts, sigs, etc) would actually decrease membership, and posting. Quality posting would also decrease just because there would be less members.
~Mike
     
besson3c
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Nov 24, 2008, 09:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I'm sure they do. But usually when you talk to friends you are polite. And even when you talk to strangers you usually treat them with a certain respect. On boards this is different. People chose a tone and say things they would otherwise never use face to face with the people they're talking to. Partly it is due to the fact that we are not all friends. We chose our friends. This board however is anonymous. And you have to deal with whoever is here. That's fundamentally different from a little chitchat you have with your friends. Another issue is maturity. Or rather a lack thereof. Users hiding behind their anonymity will act in a way they never would at your little Macworld gathering.

I'm not at all against these topics per se. But this isn't a voluntary gathering of frieds. It's an anonymous group of random persons on a board. Politics, religion, etc. usually end up in bickering or insults. There's more than enough proof in the Lounge. And that's why I want these issues banned. Not from our lives, but from this board.

Maybe our efforts would be best spent coming up with ways to ensure politeness and less bickering then, as this is a fundamental problem that may very well exist even if the board was purely technical. What you are proposing would likely only minimize this, but at great cost, and there are no guarantees that whatever motivates people to bicker, be hostile, whatever wouldn't trickle into the technical threads...
     
Railroader
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Nov 24, 2008, 11:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
This board should serve a technical purpose. It should host discussions on Mac and tech related discussions,
Actually, it should bring in ad revenue and an income stream for its owners. MacNN does not host the forums out of purely altruistic motivations. They want to make money.
     
Railroader
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Nov 24, 2008, 11:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I'm not at all against these topics per se. But this isn't a voluntary gathering of frieds. It's an anonymous group of random persons on a board. Politics, religion, etc. usually end up in bickering or insults. There's more than enough proof in the Lounge. And that's why I want these issues banned. Not from our lives, but from this board.
Originally Posted by Simon
your little Macworld gathering
If you don't want to see insults, don't throw any out yourself.
     
Simon  (op)
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Nov 24, 2008, 11:37 AM
 
Absolutely no insult intended. With "your little MW gathering" I meant literally that: Besson's example of a small group of people gathering while at Macworld. Apologies if any of that came across as an insult. There was certainly none intended.
     
Railroader
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Nov 24, 2008, 11:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Maflynn View Post
I do think that the lounge as gotten a little out of hand with some a fair amount of nonesense threads, such as besson's abnormal obsession with feces, but I just skip by them or any other thread that may have a subject matter the doesn't matter to me.. Using Besson as an example, he and others seem to enjoy those threads so I just move on. To that end, I find myself posting less in the lounge - for the most part - because I've been enjoying the contributing to the technical forums. That doesn't mean I advocate we kill off the lounge, just because I'm in there less.


I feel the same way you do. besson3c's inane fecal oriented posts have certainly caused me to spend less time here.

If the mods want to drive people away, there are two ways to do that:
  1. Make MacNN a purely tech oriented forums
  2. Allow besson3c to continue in his childish, inanae, fecal-oriented posting
     
Dakar V
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Nov 24, 2008, 11:39 AM
 
While I think the suggestions for a purely technical forum have a lot of merit on their own (though some parts are quite heavy-handed), I also think they overlook the fact that this doesn't appear to be what MacNN strives to be.

I haven't been here long enough to know what this place used to be like, but from the four years I've been here, it seems the place enjoys having a personality, and allowing its members to display theirs. Simon's suggestion feels like the polar opposite of that.

And yes, as someone noted, we're probably long past the point of no return for such an endeavor. You'd practically have to create some kind of "Hardcore" sub-forum with all these new rules for it to work out. I suspect it wouldn't get the kind of traffic the rest of the forum does.

Edit: Also, the last thing we need is less traffic. Half the time when I post a legit problem it's like pulling teeth to get a response, let alone someone with insight. I don't think this can be blamed on the Lounge.
     
Railroader
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Nov 24, 2008, 11:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Absolutely no insult intended. With "your little MW gathering" I meant literally that: Besson's example of a small group of people gathering while at Macworld. Apologies if any of that came across as an insult. There was certainly none intended.
It came off to me as an insult. Do you think I misinterpreted your post? Maybe you are misinterpreting other people's posts as well.
     
Simon  (op)
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Nov 24, 2008, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
It came off to me as an insult. Do you think I misinterpreted your post?
You quite obviously did.

Maybe you are misinterpreting other people's posts as well.
I'm sure that can happen. But it is entirely irrelevant how I interpret other posts as I am not the topic here.

On topic, my suggestions emphasize cracking down on personal attacks. But they change nothing about how that happens. Just like today it would be the mods that determine if something is a factual/objective post or a personal attack. And in the past the mods have shown that they are absolutely capable of distinguishing between attacks/insults and mere misunderstandings.
     
subego
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Nov 24, 2008, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
On topic, my suggestions emphasize cracking down on personal attacks.

Honestly, and as objectively as possible, I don't think they do. They emphasize changing the entire nature of the board in such a way as to have the side effect of eliminating personal attacks.

Here is a suggestion that emphasizes cracking down on personal attacks:

Moderators, I suggest you crack down on personal attacks.

This is a suggestion I agree with and have more or less given in the past. Personal attacks should be officially against forum rules. Problem solved.


I don't think most of your problems have anything to do with the structure of the forums. I see it as the greater internet ****wad theory magnified by the fact that our overlords here give us users a lot of rope.
     
Laminar
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Nov 24, 2008, 03:19 PM
 
And I'd still like to see some evidence that Lounge drama has significantly, detrimentally affected other areas of the boards.
     
Railroader
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Nov 24, 2008, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
You quite obviously did.
Hopefully I made my point.

Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I'm sure that can happen. But it is entirely irrelevant how I interpret other posts as I am not the topic here.

On topic, my suggestions emphasize cracking down on personal attacks. But they change nothing about how that happens. Just like today it would be the mods that determine if something is a factual/objective post or a personal attack. And in the past the mods have shown that they are absolutely capable of distinguishing between attacks/insults and mere misunderstandings.
It is entirely relevant. Many things can be interpreted many different ways. What some view as good hearted joshing around, some view as deeply insulting. What some view as a comment about a size of a group, some view as a belittling of the group as a whole.

I am glad the forums aren't as you would desire them. But that's not to say I like them entirely the way they are now. I wish the mods would crack down on the disgusting childish behavior. I wish the mods would crack down on personal attacks and stalking by some members. I hit the "report" button and let the mods decide what to do. I don't always agree with the outcome, but it is their playground and if I don't like it I'll take my ball and play elsewhere.
     
Simon  (op)
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Nov 24, 2008, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Hopefully I made my point.
Actually IMHO you missed the point entirely.

In the past the mods have already faced the problem of interpretation. And faced with that challenge they have shown that they are well capable of distinguishing jokes from abuse. Nothing about that would change if my proposed changes were implemented.

If the rules said "no politics, no religion, no personal baloney" I'd have absolutely confidence in the mod's capabilities to enforce these rules. This thread is to discuss these suggestions for new rules. Not the mod's enforcement thereof.
     
Railroader
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Nov 24, 2008, 07:40 PM
 
Yup. I made my point. You missed it though.

Your changes aren't going to happen. It appears you are one who likes to take on fruitless endeavors.
     
Doofy
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Nov 25, 2008, 02:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
• Remove all signatures. Names of people who are especially competent will stick out by themselves. Enjoy the reduced bandwidth bill.
OK, you start. Nobody's impressed by your collection of Macs anyways.

Does the existence of the Lounge keep you up at night or something? I mean, you keep bringing this topic up at every available opportunity.

Can't you just ask an admin to ban you from the Lounge or something?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Doofy
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Nov 25, 2008, 02:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
But usually when you talk to friends you are polite. And even when you talk to strangers you usually treat them with a certain respect. On boards this is different. People chose a tone and say things they would otherwise never use face to face with the people they're talking to. Partly it is due to the fact that we are not all friends. We chose our friends. This board however is anonymous. And you have to deal with whoever is here. That's fundamentally different from a little chitchat you have with your friends. Another issue is maturity. Or rather a lack thereof. Users hiding behind their anonymity will act in a way they never would at your little Macworld gathering.
You're assuming a lot.

I, for example, am exactly the same off these boards as I am on them. Only tonight I phoned my guitarist up and called him a "rancid commie", to which he replied by calling me a "filthy hippie". Before much laughter and a plan to down some Jack was hatched.

Just because you want everything to be boring, it doesn't mean everyone else wants it that way.

And let's take your suggestion that it'd make for a better technical board. I wager that it wouldn't because the people around here with proper knowledge (like Bess, with his arcane knowledge of the command line) don't just want to sit around eagerly waiting for someone to ask a question about their particular major - how boring would that be? They want fun while they hang, and when the time comes that they can share their knowledge, they do it.
Plus, this is a Mac board. Macs don't really go wrong - they just work. So waiting around for that little problem to develop and not conversing in the meantime is going to be awfully boring.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
analogika
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Nov 25, 2008, 05:39 AM
 
^ What the filthy hippie said.

Except that my board persona is slightly different from real life in that it's more of a sport to snipe at idiots and assholes that I would tend to just avoid in real life. At least, it's a sport until I decide to put them on ignore.

So I guess my persona isn't all that different, after all.
     
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Nov 25, 2008, 05:48 AM
 
<Moderator speak>Doofy, Railroader, there is no need attacking Simon for making suggestions. Please contribute productively to this discussion.
</Moderator speak>

<personal opinion>While I can see the benefits of a purely tech forum, I think it's way too late to start that here at MacNN. People have formed too much of a community and my guess is that they wouldn't appreciate if we closed down the Lounge. The mods try to keep the animosities out of the tech forums.

Simon, do you think the staff is lax/unsuccessful in trying to keep out arguments that originated in the Lounges from spilling over to the tech forums? </personal opinion>
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Simon  (op)
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Nov 25, 2008, 08:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Simon, do you think the staff is lax/unsuccessful in trying to keep out arguments that originated in the Lounges from spilling over to the tech forums?
I think most of the time the staff is doing a commendable job of enforcing the rules. The only thing I might do differently is be more decisive about recurring offenders. But I say might as I am aware only the mods see the entire picture and things are usually more complicated when seen from the "inside".

So no, I don't think it's a problem of moderation at all. I do think however, the rules could be more strict when it comes to how members treat each other. And that's what some of my suggestions are geared at. Especially the call for a zero-tolerance policy on personal attacks. In my book it's unacceptable when people go up against others just for having an opposing opinion. There's a difference between "I don't agree because of ..." and "you're an idiot, piss off". Everybody knows that difference very well. IMHO if somebody voluntarily choses to cross that line he should be banned immediately. Recurring offenders are to be permabanned. The effect of that simple but crystal clear measure should not be underestimated. I'm convince the general tone would improve immediately.
     
ghporter
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Nov 25, 2008, 08:55 AM
 
What Oreo said...and then some. Starting with his "moderator" statements.

I think there is WAY too much grade-school crap in all the forums, particularly the Lounge, but also the technical forums. Unfortunately it's impossible for the (all volunteer, all on their free time) staff to police all the forums the way a kindergarten teacher does in his/her class. And that should not be necessary. The membership should do most of the policing. Social pressure in the form of "that was not called for; contribute constructively or keep your negativism to yourself" posts by regulars should be all it takes to keep most of the threads running smoothly. However, as has been shown in this thread, our regulars don't seem to feel much responsibility for the forums. They seem to think that they can play, act out, be rude and insensitive, and that this is OK. But it's not.

Railroader and Doofy, your posts, while they (may or) may not have been intentionally rude and obnoxious, came across that way. I shouldn't have to remind anyone that conversing purely by text loses something like 90% of the communication value of a face-to-face conversation. Body language, facial expression, tone and inflection are all lost, and what could have been a sarcastic or ironic statement comes across as boorish and over-the-top rude. Like your posts immediately above.

Simon, Doofy does have a point. Lead by example; if you don't see a purpose in signatures, then do away with yours. Your technical posts stand for themselves in establishing your credentials, and your signature's listing of your impressive fleet of Macs doesn't really add anything to that. If your idea is a good one, adopt it as much as possible yourself and demonstrate how good it is.

And this is one of a number of forums for discussion, not argument. If we cannot be civil, then we should not be interacting here. And we, the staff, will close uncivil threads as WE see the need. That's our job. Not running a daycare for antisocial kids.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Doofy
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Nov 25, 2008, 10:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
<Moderator speak>Doofy, Railroader, there is no need attacking Simon for making suggestions. Please contribute productively to this discussion.
</Moderator speak>
Well thanks for the infraction, Oreo.

I wasn't attacking Simon - I was questioning why he was being hypocritical about sigs. And questioning why he brings this subject up all the time - if he's so bothered by the lounge, why can't he ask to be banned from it? If he's so bothered by sigs, why doesn't he go into his CP and turn them off?
Why has our social interaction in this little community got to suffer because he lies awake at night desperately wanting everyone else on this forum to have no fun at all? If he wants a purely technical Mac forum, then how much does a copy of phpBB cost exactly?
I mean, it's like someone walking into a pub/bar and demanding that everyone else stop talking about anything but beer. I class that kind of demand as a personal attack - and this particular one is ongoing because he brings it up all the time.

Straight questions - no offence intended.

And Simon, you've still got a sig mate, so it's still hypocrisy.
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Maflynn
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Nov 25, 2008, 11:17 AM
 
I have to agree with doofy, if a member does not like a particular forum, don't go there. If a member doesn't like sigs, turn them off. What is hypocritical is that he rails against sigs but he's got one of the largest sigs. Does it bother me, no I'm not that anal, towards his sig but he's already stated his distaste.

I already stated that in general the thread content of the lounge hasn't really done anything to me, at times it does seem a bit juvenile, yet there are a number of members who do like the content and post there. Instead of requesting its destruction, because I don't care for the content I just avoid.

I recommend the same to the OP - don't like it, don't go there.
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OreoCookie
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Nov 25, 2008, 11:19 AM
 
I've issued a warning, not an infraction. ghporter and I have both asked you to tone it down and bring your point across without being snide. I don't think there is anything to add.

It's also your social interaction that makes or breaks a good forum, i. e. whether you tend to answer aggressively influences the style of this forum and the environment we give to users.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Dakar V
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Nov 25, 2008, 11:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Maflynn View Post
If a member doesn't like sigs, turn them off.
I completely forgot about this. Well, geeze, the admin have already given the power to solve the problem is in your user cp.
     
Ted L. Nancy
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Nov 25, 2008, 11:33 AM
 
I thought Apple was against this type of control. Have we reverted back to pre-1984? Did I miss something?

-Forum "newbie"
10.7.1 on Mac Pro 8x2.8
     
Doofy
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Nov 25, 2008, 11:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I've issued a warning, not an infraction.
So it was. My bad.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
ghporter and I have both asked you to tone it down and bring your point across without being snide. I don't think there is anything to add.
The point has been put across without being snide many, many times. But the dude keeps asking the same thing over and over and over again. So forgive me for not crafting a perfectly unambiguous tonally-neutral technical answer this time.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
It's also your social interaction that makes or breaks a good forum, i. e. whether you tend to answer aggressively influences the style of this forum and the environment we give to users.
Yeah, I'm the resident loudmouth gobshite. Everyone knows that. Everyone expects that. Having a loudmouth gobshite around is an essential requirement for a non-boring community.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 25, 2008, 11:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
The point has been put across without being snide many, many times. But the dude keeps asking the same thing over and over and over again. So forgive me for not crafting a perfectly unambiguous tonally-neutral technical answer this time.
You also have the choice of not saying anything at all. And if the only other choice is to make a snide remark, its better to not say anything at all.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Doofy
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Nov 25, 2008, 11:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
You also have the choice of not saying anything at all. And if the only other choice is to make a snide remark, its better to not say anything at all.
See, there's the thing. You think it was snide. I think it was straight.

Now if I'd have typed what I was really thinking...
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sek929
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Nov 25, 2008, 11:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Plus, this is a Mac board. Macs don't really go wrong - they just work. So waiting around for that little problem to develop and not conversing in the meantime is going to be awfully boring.
Emphasis™

I joined because I had problems with my old Mac. but ever since OSX I've had...let's see, like zero problems.

So instead I waste my time here and there chatting with my fellow Mac chaps about all sorts of convoluted jazz, and every once and a while I poke my head into the tech forums and realize I have absolutely no idea how OSX works, luckily I never have to fiddle with it.
     
Laminar
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Nov 25, 2008, 01:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Well thanks for the infraction, Oreo.

I wasn't attacking Simon - I was questioning why he was being hypocritical about sigs. And questioning why he brings this subject up all the time - if he's so bothered by the lounge, why can't he ask to be banned from it? If he's so bothered by sigs, why doesn't he go into his CP and turn them off?
Why has our social interaction in this little community got to suffer because he lies awake at night desperately wanting everyone else on this forum to have no fun at all? If he wants a purely technical Mac forum, then how much does a copy of phpBB cost exactly?
I mean, it's like someone walking into a pub/bar and demanding that everyone else stop talking about anything but beer. I class that kind of demand as a personal attack - and this particular one is ongoing because he brings it up all the time.

Straight questions - no offence intended.

And Simon, you've still got a sig mate, so it's still hypocrisy.
Says the guy that's previously bragged on and on about how he can take an infraction like a man and won't go whining about it like the "libs" and "dems."
     
Doofy
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Nov 25, 2008, 01:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Says the guy that's previously bragged on and on about how he can take an infraction like a man and won't go whining about it like the "libs" and "dems."
Is there some kind of point to this post of yours here, Brian?
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turtle777
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Nov 25, 2008, 02:10 PM
 
Let me summarize so far:

Simon hates teh 'NN.

Doofy et. al. likes it.

-t
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 25, 2008, 02:21 PM
 
See how much shorter this thread without much the bickering is?

And keep it on topic from now on, don't insult people, be it Simon for starting this thread, Besson or Doofy for hating Jazz (Despite the smiley, yes, I mean it!)
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
calverson
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Nov 25, 2008, 02:57 PM
 
Doofy just got Banananated. Wonder what for?
     
Laminar
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Nov 25, 2008, 02:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by calverson View Post
Doofy just got Banananated. Wonder what for?
No, temp banned.
     
Simon  (op)
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Nov 25, 2008, 03:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Let me summarize so far:
Simon hates teh 'NN.
Originally Posted by calverson View Post
I think that Simon hates anything that does not directly have to do with anything according to a strict application or interpretation of the law or rules regarding Apple Computers.
I posted this about 20 posts before:

Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Note also that none of this has to do with hate. These are suggestions to make this a better technical board.
So I really don't know what all this hate nonsense is about. It's actually some of the hateful posts I'd like to see gone from this board.

Also, this thread isn't about Simon. It's about the ideas he proposed to change this place. Is it so hard to stick to that?
     
 
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