[Polopo43]

www.macgeneration.com
Julien Dumas tested Macos X 10.1 versus 10.0.4 on two dual 800MHZ machines:

"Mac OS 10.1, qui est tout simplement PH�NOM�NAL ! J’ai pu faire la comparaison entre la version actuelle (la 10.0.4) et cette preview, c’est sans commune mesure, (test r�alis� sur deux G4 Bi-800). Avec cette nouvelle version, les applications se lancent quasi instantan�ment ! les menus se d�roulent et se r�-enroulent sans la moindre h�sitation, plus aucune inertie au redimensionnement des fen�tres ! Voici enfin une version commerciale digne de ce nom ! "

In summary: he noticed a great improvment !!
Looking forward for september...

Originally posted by Polopo43:
<STRONG>www.macgeneration.com
Julien Dumas tested Macos X 10.1 versus 10.0.4 on two dual 800MHZ machines:

"Mac OS 10.1, qui est tout simplement PH�NOM�NAL ! J�ai pu faire la comparaison entre la version actuelle (la 10.0.4) et cette preview, c�est sans commune mesure, (test r�alis� sur deux G4 Bi-800). Avec cette nouvelle version, les applications se lancent quasi instantan�ment ! les menus se d�roulent et se r�-enroulent sans la moindre h�sitation, plus aucune inertie au redimensionnement des fen�tres ! Voici enfin une version commerciale digne de ce nom ! "

In summary: he noticed a great improvment !!
Looking forward for september...
</STRONG>

Translation via babel fish...
Mac OS 10.1, which is quite simply PHENOMENAL! J.ai which been able to make the comparison enters the current version (10.0.4) and this preview, c.est without common measurement, (test carried out on two G4 Bi-800). With this new version, the applications launch out quasi instantaneously! the menus are held and are rewound without the least hesitation, plus any inertia with the redimensioning of the windows! Here finally a commercial version worthy of this name!

[Mediaman_12]

Steve was CLEARLY using one of the NEW G4's during the demo. The new ones are easly identifiable from the SIDE, the colour of the Apple logo on the side of new cases is significantly lighter than on the old ones & the Logo on the back of the LCD monitor steve was using. ( I had a good picture on my ADSL and could pick out these details)

Hey Mediaman_12,

I was at the expo, must have been in the third row from the press rows and the computer that Steve was using was an original G4. That computer was there before he even came up to spoke so why would they put up a new G4 before Quicksilver was even announced.

I rest my case.

Steve was using the old G4... It had the OLD case.

Steve demoed 10.1 before he announced the new G4s. He doesn't want to reveal the case before the crowd before the official announcement, does he?

[Zadian]

Originally posted by &lt;Daniel Canaris&gt;:
<STRONG>Steve was using the old G4... It had the OLD case. </STRONG>

It could have been a new motherboard in an old case, it could have been almost everything - even a dual pentium 4 1,8 GHz. ( )

Fakt is we don't know it and we won't be able to verify what computer Steve Jobs used.
We will be able to verify how fast mac os 10.1 is on our own computes in september. Everything else is useless speculation or FDU.

[Group51]

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
<STRONG>Menu icons on the right are very good. Will check tomorrow if the menus have optional smart scrolling.

But Carbon has Services! YES! </STRONG>

Great. Could you have a look for any sort of IRDA support? I can't see it in the pics on the Apple site.

Thanks.

[rogerkylin]

I don't understand why so many people think Steve wants to fool us. If he says 10.1 will be much faster than 10.0.4, then it turns out it is only marginally better, he is screwing himself.

Maybe lying about a product due out in 2-3 years, there could be more 'excuses' but this thing is going to be out soon. Sure maybe he did the demo on a dual 800...why not... but if there is no real improvement on g3's or at older g4's, people will be pissed at the blatant lie.

[ntsc]

God you conspiracy theorists really need to get out more! No, no, no and no again. You know if they wanted to demo OS X on the new G4 the simple answer is announce the G4s before the OS X demo. Surely that would be easier than making some non-standard machine for Steve personally!

Next to the person who suggested that Apple released Puma now. Do you think that Apple would be holding the update until September if it worked well enough to be released now? Think before you type!

My personal opinion having watched the keynote via a modem is that 10.1 sounds great and i can't wait to get that guy on my iMac DV. Also i am pleased that these guys who bought computers instead of DVD players will quit whining soon and fixes many of the gripes with the current 4Kxx series.

To the person who said that they were in OS 9 full time because amongst other things there were no audio apps. Apparently there is one sound developer crowd who have pledged complete support (hardware and software wise) for OS X take a look. I don't do audio stuff at all but i saw this earlier and thought about it when i read your post.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by rogerkylin:
<STRONG>I don't understand why so many people think Steve wants to fool us. If he says 10.1 will be much faster than 10.0.4, then it turns out it is only marginally better, he is screwing himself. </STRONG>

I agree but this is what it has said on the OSX page since day 1:

"Darwin evolved from a joint effort by Apple engineers and programmers in the Open Source software community. Together, they�ve created a robust, modern operating system foundation to help your Mac run faster and more reliably than ever."

Now if someone upgrades to OSX from 9 do you actually think OSX feels faster then 9?

I am not a conspiracy theorist but Steve has givin' us bull a plenty in the past. Remember when he demoed 4K17in January? IT FLEW! Window resizing was stunning and thing launched fast. All that he had next to him on the desk was a G4 Cube.

Also anyone remember that phoney presentation he gave of the NeXt cube running full colour video. As it turned out it was just a VCR under the desk playing the video.

I don't trust Steve even though I want to.

[SYN]

Also anyone remember that phoney presentation he gave of the NeXt cube running full colour video. As it turned out it was just a VCR under the desk playing the video

That was a proof of concept for a video card. What turned wrong was that the chip maker for that card went bankrupt before shipping the card. It wouldn't have been a problem if that hadn't happened. You're blowing things out of proportion.

All of the people at MWNY, including gorgonzola, have said the build is indeed very fast.

So quit the bitching.

[Vader's Robotic Stump]

Originally posted by SYN:
<STRONG>All of the people at MWNY, including gorgonzola, have said the build is indeed very fast.

So quit the bitching.</STRONG>

That is because all the computers at MWNY with 10.1 on them are Dual 800MHz computers with 256 megs of RAM.

[bcaslis]

You know, all the people that gripe about Apple fooling us with window resizing and 10.0 really need to get a grip. Go to the video streams and rewatch the demo. Watch what is used for resizing. Steve did not demo window resizing in the Finder. He use a photo and resized it. Try that right now on your 10.0.4 machine. Guess what? It flies. The problem is windows that are dynamically resizing elements like the Finder. That's what Steve demoed in 10.1.

Apple has no advantage in trying to fool the faithful. Like any good marketeer they will demo the good parts and not the slow or bad parts. That's a normal part of selling.

I'm really looking forward to 10.1. I believe it will be much faster than 10.0. I also believe it will be slower in many instances than 9.1. I'ved used many professional UNIX systems in and in all them in general the UI feels slower than 9.1 (even top-end system) because of the pre-emptive multi-tasking, though they will feel much faster in certain tasks just like 10.0.

Let's enjoy our Macs, and hope Apple accountable for things they really need to do, but this conspiracy stuff has gotten really old.

Thanks

[SYN]

That is because all the computers at MWNY with 10.1 on them are Dual 800MHz computers with 256 megs of RAM.

And? Is the 10.0.4 OSX on the same machine a special MWNY crippled OSX? Of course not. There's no point in saying OSX is faster at MWNY because it runs on top end macs. What counts is relative performance. 10.1 seems 3x faster than 10.0.4 on the same machines, so it'll be the same (3x faster) on ALL machines. Launching apps isn't really dependent on CPU speed, as has been said previously by developers, and if window resizing suddenly got so damn faster, it's obviously because the algorithms got completely overhauled, and probably even because the video card is starting to kick in. So don't give me that "IE launches in one bounce on a dual 800, so that's 2 on a single 800, make that 4 on a 400" BullShiite.

As far as RAM is concerned, I wouldn't consider using OSX on anything less that 128Megs.

Chill.

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by Group51:
<STRONG>


Great. Could you have a look for any sort of IRDA support? I can't see it in the pics on the Apple site.

Thanks.</STRONG>

I haven't bothered checking the actual build (WAY too many people at the Puma stand), but I spoke to the USB and kernel engineer and he said that he's been seeing internal emails about that from the modem team and stuff. He said that it might not be as full-blown as OS 9's by September but that he's pretty sure there'd be something.

BTW, the new PowerMacs are weird. There's no emergency eject pin, and you *have* to eject via the Pro Keyboard (or via a control strip), I believe -- what if you don't use a Pro Keyboard and aren't using Mac OS 9?!

Seems like a bizarre move, but let's not get OT...

[el chupacabra]

severed hand agree but this is what it has said on the OSX page since day 1:

"Darwin evolved from a joint effort by Apple engineers and programmers in the Open Source software community. Together,
they�ve created a robust, modern operating system foundation to help your Mac run faster and more reliably than ever."

Now if someone upgrades to OSX from 9 do you actually think OSX feels faster then 9?

I am not a conspiracy theorist but Steve has givin' us bull a plenty in the past. Remember when he demoed 4K17in January? IT
FLEW! Window resizing was stunning and thing launched fast. All that he had next to him on the desk was a G4 Cube.

Also anyone remember that phoney presentation he gave of the NeXt cube running full colour video. As it turned out it was just a
VCR under the desk playing the video.

I don't trust Steve even though I want to.

exactly! And don't forget the whole G3 thing where it was twice as fast as the Pentium only to find later when we bought it the system bus limited it to about half the speed of a pentium.


Lieing is something all companies do. And if you think it would be hard to build steve a custom machine your wrong. I'm sure you all know that apple has been testing prototype 1ghz G4s for about a year. They do get a few of them. So the design is most likly perfected (in other words a dual 1 Ghz machine would not be the slightest bit unstable), so it could be that. and it would just be a matter of grabbing one from the lab. Im just saying don't get all excited yet from what looked to me like too much magic....never thought a computer could be that fast. You know how Apple is. Hope I'm wrong though.

If he really wanted to show it off he would of done the demo on an iMac.

[GnOm]

Originally posted by bcaslis:
<STRONG>Watch what is used for resizing. Steve did not demo window resizing in the Finder. He use a photo and resized it.</STRONG>

for your first point, please rewatch it again, he actually did resizing in Finder, I agrre with the rest though

cu

[Vader's Robotic Stump]

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
<STRONG>BTW, the new PowerMacs are weird. There's no emergency eject pin, and you *have* to eject via the Pro Keyboard (or via a control strip), I believe -- what if you don't use a Pro Keyboard and aren't using Mac OS 9?!</STRONG>

The G4 Cube also does not have a emergency eject button.

I assume that if you are not using a Pro Keyboard and OSX that you can eject disks using the "eject" command in the Finder menu or the "eject" in the customizable toolbar. I also assume that Apple will make a new System Menu for ejecting disks just like those ones for sound and soforth.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by GnOm:
<STRONG>

for your first point, please rewatch it again, he actually did resizing in Finder, I agrre with the rest though
</STRONG>

He was referring to the 10.0 presentation, not last Wednesday's.

Jobs first demonstrated Finder window resizing at the 10.1 presentation.

[theolein]

My god, you lot are terrible. 10.1 will come sooner or later. It will be faster. It will be more reliable. it will include DVD. And it will include the terminal.......

[GnOm]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
<STRONG>

He was referring to the 10.0 presentation, not last Wednesday's.
</STRONG>

oh, sorry then.

btw. do you hang around macnews.de too?
Vielleicht "kennen" wir uns sogar?


cu.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by GnOm:
<STRONG>oh, sorry then.

btw. do you hang around macnews.de too?
Vielleicht "kennen" wir uns sogar?
</STRONG>

Ich glaube nicht...

Are the macnews.de fora any better than the heise.de/newsticker commentaries? God, what a bunch of prepubescent L4m3Rz...

I'll hafta check them out.

-chris.

[Dalgo]

This is reminds me a lot of the Newton. when the Newton first came out it's handwriting recognition sucked. I remember comedians on TV making fun of it. Then, they fixed the Newton's handwriting recognition. If you have ever used a palm pilot and one of the newer Netons you know that the Newton, albeit discontinued for some time, is WAY better at handwriting recognition than the pilot. It will learn your handwriting; you don't have to learn it's own cryptic style of writing.

The moral? The newton sucked when it first came out. mac OS X sucks now. Then they made the Newton better than the competition. I assume that 10.1 should do that for X. The only difference here is that OS X hasn't been totally ruined in the media the way that the Newton was. Apple was smart for noty advertising OS X while it was a POS. Once 10.1 comes out I'll bet that we will begin to see OS X as the default OS on the new machines and OS X commercials emerging.

Just my 2�.

[Milio]

Where's the Newton now?

[Nonsuch]

God, some of you people are worse than the guy who used to pick through Dylan's garbage cans.

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
<STRONG>

I agree but this is what it has said on the OSX page since day 1:

"Darwin evolved from a joint effort by Apple engineers and programmers in the Open Source software community. Together, they’ve created a robust, modern operating system foundation to help your Mac run faster and more reliably than ever."

Now if someone upgrades to OSX from 9 do you actually think OSX feels faster then 9?</STRONG>

The copy doesn't say that the GUI "feels faster." It says you can run your Mac faster. In other words, a busy application that would've held the system hostage in OS 9/earlier no longer does so; you can click over to another app without having to rationalize the delay by saying you needed an excuse to go to the bathroom or get a sandwich. In other words, you can use the new Finder and in an instant find a buried file that would have taken you dozens of mouse clicks under the old OS. Even with the sluggish GUI, you can get things done more efficiently in X by unlearning old habits and taking advantage of its strengths.

And more to the point, it's ad copy, not a freakin' white paper. If you routinely take Apple's boilerplate as gospel and parse it down to the last word, you need to go out and play for a while.

Where's the Newton now?

Discontinued as a non-essential product, like scanners, printers and other things made by Apple pre-Jobs v2. even though the unit DID turn a profit.

What's the point? Is this some bad causality analogy game, because we can also play this way:

The [name any MS product except BOB] sucked, but then version [any number] came out and its much better.

Then I ask where's the [MS product] now?

[Skywalkers new Hand]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
[QBAnd more to the point, it's ad copy, not a freakin' white paper. If you routinely take Apple's boilerplate as gospel and parse it down to the last word, you need to go out and play for a while.[/QB]

Hey, you are the one that parses my comment about the "ad copy" down to the last word.

Perhaps we should both go out and play

[ckohler]

Ironically, some of the Netwon's handwriting recognition technology lives on in Microsoft PocketPC based handhelds. ParaGraph, who made the great handwriting alternative input method for the Newton called Free Style, later released a WinCE program based on the same engine called Calligrapher. Later, that older WinCE version of Calligrapher was purchased by Microsoft. Renamed Transcriber, it is now offered as a free, downloadable addon to PocketPC devices.



[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: ckohler ]

[frawgz]

NO! 10.1 is NOT faster!! Stop saying that!! Won't somebody think of the children?? Please, won't somebody think of the CHILDREN?? It's all a lie! *gasp* *cough* *gurgle*

[pinlo]

Originally posted by frawgz:
<STRONG>NO! 10.1 is NOT faster!! Stop saying that!! Won't somebody think of the children?? Please, won't somebody think of the CHILDREN?? It's all a lie! *gasp* *cough* *gurgle*</STRONG>

I think Apple just slowed down the bounce speed so that apps would *appear* to launch faster.

[frawgz]

Oh, by the way, is there any word on digital camera support? Steve said it's been drastically improved, but wherehow?

You can currently see (sort of) support for digital cameras in /System/Library/Image Capture/Devices

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by Kate:
<STRONG>

How's it doin' on a G3? Any chance to test it?</STRONG>

I was talking with a guy on carracho hoo was hosting 5F15 and he told me that it was fast even on his 300 mHz G3 iBook.

1-3 bounces to start apps.

I TRULY think that apple is not lyeing to us about OS X being faster.

-Owl

[spectre]

OwlBoy I think he was actually using 5D15 I've also talked to that same person (i think) and he says the speed is great, even on his ibook.

I'm about to test out 5F7 on my Rev A iMac. I'll let you know how it performs

[m2bored]

Originally posted by spectre:
<STRONG>OwlBoy I think he was actually using 5D15 I've also talked to that same person (i think) and he says the speed is great, even on his ibook.

I'm about to test out 5F7 on my Rev A iMac. I'll let you know how it performs </STRONG>

Let me know how it turns out

M2

[naden]

I think a lot of people on here need to seriously take a chill pill. Just remember deep breaths.

For those that think OS 10.1 won't do amazing things are just being silly. Apple has/will have a long time to do basically what is straight performance increasing.

Anyone who has ever done product developed will know that all of the effort is in just getting the initial product out. There are few if any great first release products that have no bugs or issues. Hell even Apple hardware has second revisions.

I think people are moronic to be comparing 9.1 to 10. 9.1 is a nine-generation release, 10 is a first release. After a few revisions 10 will be a great OS with the refinements that you see after time.

Just relax a bit and be patient

-- Naden

[uochris]

Originally posted by spectre:
<STRONG>OwlBoy I think he was actually using 5D15 I've also talked to that same person (i think) and he says the speed is great, even on his ibook.

I'm about to test out 5F7 on my Rev A iMac. I'll let you know how it performs </STRONG>

Ever since I saw 10.1 demoed at Macworld I just can't get enough info on it. It reminds me of the pre release days of 10.0. I'm checking these forums every couple of minutes searching for people who have actually used or seen it in action. 10.1 seems to address just about everything that I hoped 10.0 would become. Acceptable launch times, fast scrolling, long file names are now fully displayed, resizeable colums, SMB client for windows networks, DVD player, a more flexible apple menu and more. I only hope 10.1 can live up to my hopes. I look forward to your reactions after using this early version on your iMac.

[iloveOSX]

you and me both uochris

[FAerrorTAL]

about the cds....

on macosrumors.com they talk about the 9.2 release being only with 10.1... and that the CD upgrade would be multiple disks.
With 3 CDs, the math doesn't indicate that they would the 300% profit everyone seems to think they would.

about 10.1? I think that before MWNY we were all in agreement that any update is a good update... now 10.1 (though unreleased) is no good at all?

It's time i start reading less and doing more.

aaron

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lookmark:
[QB]

- In "General" too is an option to hide file extensions. Also interesting is the addition to hide file extensions on a file-by-file basis as well, in the Show Info window. (I doubt the guys on the Apple HI mailing lists are be very happy with this, but I think it's a sort of decent compromise.)

Boy did you call that one! Over 150 messages on that topic alone on the HI list just today. This feature is a pain in the rump to support in Windows when an inexperienced user is confronted with a list of files in the File Manager all with seemingly identical names. I hope Apple sets the default to viseable extensions.

[Skywalkers new Hand]

From: http://www.macosx.org

Power Macintosh Cube
* 500 Mhz G4
* 640 MB RAM
* DVD-ROM
* 30 GB EIDE Internal Hard Drive
* 40 GB Firewire Ext. Hard Drive
* 12x Sony Firewire CD-RW
* AirPort Wireless

10.1 5D15

"First off, let's talk speed, because that is what 90% of MacOSX users care about. Window resizing is terrible, and is no where near what Steve Jobs was showing on stage. It is still very choppy. But as for opening programs:

* Mail- 2 bounces
* IE- 2 bounces
* Sys. Prefs- 2 bounces
* Quicktime 5- 5 bounces
* Opening all 4 at once- 16 bounces."

Hmm, I don't know what to think about that. I know that mail, system prefs and quicktime on 10.0.4 are the same launch times for me on my 450 Cube.

Here is hoping something is wrong.

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: Skywalkers new Hand ]

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by Skywalkers new Hand:
<STRONG>From: http://www.macosx.org

10.1 5F25

"First off, let's talk speed, because that is what 90% of MacOSX users care about. Window resizing is terrible, and is no where near what Steve Jobs was showing on stage. It is still very choppy. </STRONG>

Weird .. isn't this the same sight that was so unrelentingly negative in the days leading up to the initial release?

Well, even if it's true, we're more than a month away from the street date. Still time for fine-tuning.[/LIST]

[Skywalkers new Hand]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
<STRONG>Weird .. isn't this the same sight that was so unrelentingly negative in the days leading up to the initial release?
</STRONG>

Ya, but they were bang on with that one.
Anywho, this is an old build and the one Steve used was 5F25.

[proceedNeXT]

I WANT TO BELIEVE.

[Skywalkers new Hand]

Well, I am in the process of getting 5F7 and if successful I will install and test in on a beige G3 and 450 Cube and give a full honest report...

Wish me luck.

[John Tanner]

This is in response to LookMark's remark about file name extension hiding. He mentioned that we could choose to hide extensions on a file-by-file basis. Can we hide extensions on a type/extension basis? That is, "The BIG Thesis.doc" could become "The BIG Thesis", while "THE_Game.cpp" could remain the same (if I choose to hide ".doc" and expose ".cpp")

John Tanner

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by John Tanner:
<STRONG>This is in response to LookMark's remark about file name extension hiding. He mentioned that we could choose to hide extensions on a file-by-file basis. Can we hide extensions on a type/extension basis? That is, "The BIG Thesis.doc" could become "The BIG Thesis", while "THE_Game.cpp" could remain the same (if I choose to hide ".doc" and expose ".cpp")</STRONG>

If we can't do it with the default installation, I imagine a third party will fill the need soon enough.

Firstly, iDriveX probably just snagged that copy of 5D15 off Hotline. It is a very old build.

You can't compare that build with the one shown at MacWorld. Try using a more recent build like 5F7 (which is available on Hotline), and 5F27.

Originally posted by bcaslis:
<STRONG>Watch what is used for resizing. Steve did not demo window resizing in the Finder. He use a photo and resized it. Try that right now on your 10.0.4 machine. Guess what? It flies. The problem is windows that are dynamically resizing elements like the Finder. That's what Steve demoed in 10.1.
</STRONG>

Yes he did. He resized practicly everything. Rewatch the keynote, obviously you weren't very observent.

Guys, why do you think Steve will try to 'trick us'. Thats a bad strategy, and that will not help the company.

Mac OS X did not fly on DP3, I remember the demo. Steve was talking about how it will be running faster in the future. And I remember everyone talking about how slow OS X was compared to Rhapsody a few years ago.

Back up your claims before you write your posts people.

[GnOm]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
<STRONG>
Are the macnews.de fora any better than the heise.de/newsticker commentaries?</STRONG>

depends, it�s about the same as everywhere, some are complaining about everything some flame them, some like stuff the others flame them
Nah, it�s not that bad at all.


cu.

[proceedNeXT]

Stupid post. NEXTSTEP 3.3 Flies in Virtual PC, too. When you double the processor speed, the OS of cause gets faster, too. Though I have to admit that the final is much faster than DP 4 on the same mashine. But not that faster.