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Kevin · Nov 6, 2007, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by roosta

has anyone tried to replace the traffic light buttons in the upper left of the finder?

i placed new ones in Extras2,rsrc but they didn't take hold.

I haven't tried with the Extras.rsrc because then it would clash with iTunes.. I did it the other way around. Later if I want to get rid of them I will see what the dealio is.

Remember, at one time NONE of 10.0 could be modified. Then a group of people in this very forum started hacking it bit by bit till everything was figured out.

Might as well start now.

goMac · Nov 6, 2007, 03:03 PM

Something for you guys to be aware of:
Leopard App Casualty List Grows - Yahoo! News

"As far as the firewall's crippling of programs goes, security consultant Rich Mogull said in a Nov. 1 posting that enabling the firewall in the "Set access for specific services and applications" mode causes Leopard to digitally sign applications on launch that aren't already signed via Apple's mechanism.

"If that application happens to change during run-time, as Skype seems to, the signature no longer matches and the application won't run," Mogull said. "There are no dialogs or warnings—the icon just dances on the dock for a few bounces then disappears.""

This will also affect applications whose resources folder you mess with.

swiz · Nov 6, 2007, 03:26 PM

According to that article the Firewall is disabled by default? So this will only affect you if the Firewall is enabled?

goMac · Nov 6, 2007, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by swiz

According to that article the Firewall is disabled by default? So this will only affect you if the Firewall is enabled?

Correct, sort of. The issue will be more pervasive as Apple continues to expand the role of signed code.

Currently the issue affects firewall, keychain, and parental controls. If you modify an application, all those parts of OS X will begin to act odd within the modified app. Firewall will keep your app from working, parental controls will stop recognizing your application, and keychain won't let your application access it's passwords.

Code signing will figure out if the app has been changed either by patching in memory, or by hand on the disk.

Kevin · Nov 6, 2007, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Something for you guys to be aware of:
Leopard App Casualty List Grows - Yahoo! News

"As far as the firewall's crippling of programs goes, security consultant Rich Mogull said in a Nov. 1 posting that enabling the firewall in the "Set access for specific services and applications" mode causes Leopard to digitally sign applications on launch that aren't already signed via Apple's mechanism.

"If that application happens to change during run-time, as Skype seems to, the signature no longer matches and the application won't run," Mogull said. "There are no dialogs or warnings—the icon just dances on the dock for a few bounces then disappears.""

This will also affect applications whose resources folder you mess with.

Hasn't happened to me. And I've hacked the crap out of applications.

If Apple makes this not possible, it would be a sad sad sad move.

Most of the fondest memories I've had with my Mac where in Resedit in the early days.

My ability to customize my OS to my specifications.

No one wants to have the same Trapper Keeper Steve.

swiz · Nov 6, 2007, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

No one wants to have the same Trapper Keeper Steve.

Thats awesome!

goMac · Nov 6, 2007, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Hasn't happened to me. And I've hacked the crap out of applications.

This is new to 10.5.

Originally Posted by Kevin

If Apple makes this not possible, it would be a sad sad sad move.

If you modify an application once you can resign it, and it will continue working. You may have to create a new keychain for it, and create a new set of rules in the firewall for it. Once you resign the application, Mac OS X will act like it's a new app.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Most of the fondest memories I've had with my Mac where in Resedit in the early days.

The reason this is being done is so that developers can protect their code, and not have to answer support emails on copies of their programs that have been modified, either by APE or by messing with the resources folder.

Keep in mind, this is just the start. I've heard whispers that applications that have an invalid signature may eventually not run at all, period.

Originally Posted by Kevin

My ability to customize my OS to my specifications.

No one wants to have the same Trapper Keeper Steve.

If you just change the resources folder of an app once, you may be ok. Patching in RAM may not work so hot, given that the application would exist in one state on the drive and one state in memory. But apparently Unsanity has plans to go ahead and get APE working on 10.5... more power to them I guess.

The next transition we're looking at is 64 bit. Under 64 bit applications, a lot of patching routines are just gone, and input managers are also gone.

Kevin · Nov 6, 2007, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

This is new to 10.5.

Well I've hacked iTunes in 10.5 without any repercussions. I think you also told me I couldn't or wouldn't be able to change the scroll bars without breaking 10.5 too. Or was that someone else..

If you modify an application once you can resign it, and it will continue working. You may have to create a new keychain for it, and create a new set of rules in the firewall for it. Once you resign the application, Mac OS X will act like it's a new app.

Didn't do that for me.

The reason this is being done is so that developers can protect their code, and not have to answer support emails on copies of their programs that have been modified, either by APE or by messing with the resources folder.

I can understand why they would do that. But simply stating if you modified the application in any way that they wont support or help you solved that. It's what they have been doing for years.

If you just change the resources folder of an app once, you may be ok. Patching in RAM may not work so hot, given that the application would exist in one state on the drive and one state in memory. But apparently Unsanity has plans to go ahead and get APE working on 10.5... more power to them I guess.

I'd advise anyone and everyone to stay away from APE hacks for simply security reasons. I know I'll get flamed for it. But what the hey.

The next transition we're looking at is 64 bit. Under 64 bit applications, a lot of patching routines are just gone, and input managers are also gone.

I am sure something will replace it.

Kevin · Nov 6, 2007, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by swiz

Thats awesome!

I thought it was a decent analogy.

Kids went to great measures to personalize their Trapper Keepers in the 80s for those that remember them. Ahh.. if Apple just had scratch and sniff icons...

.Neo · Nov 6, 2007, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

BTW even if JUST the scroll bars were to be changed, it would be an improvement. At least the applications would be consistent. And they look no more out of place than the Aqua ones do with the "Unified" looking GUI.

There's absolutely nothing consistent about an application using iTunes scroll bars without any other elements matching is as well. In order for this to look truly good we need to find a way to do the whole works.

That said, I really don't get why some elements are still drawn from Extras(2).rsrc

swiz · Nov 6, 2007, 05:10 PM

I think its just because Apple wasn't done switching over to the new code based GUI before they released Leopard. I have a strong feeling one of the first few updates of Leopard will include moving more toward the code GUI and Extras will do what it always does... house deprecated dataz that should have been housecleaned years ago.

goMac · Nov 6, 2007, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well I've hacked iTunes in 10.5 without any repercussions. I think you also told me I couldn't or wouldn't be able to change the scroll bars without breaking 10.5 too. Or was that someone else..

I don't think we ever talked about scroll bars or anything specific.

You may be able to hack iTunes for one of the following reasons:

a) You aren't using keychain or firewall with iTunes.
b) iTunes isn't signed (although making firewall rules for iTunes or putting it under parental controls will definetly automatically sign it).

You can use the codesign -v tool in the terminal to verify if an application is signed, and if it's signiture is valid. Go ahead and give it a go. Take a signed app, modify it, and then run the tool on the app. If the tool gives no output the signature is valid.

Originally Posted by Kevin

I can understand why they would do that. But simply stating if you modified the application in any way that they wont support or help you solved that. It's what they have been doing for years.

It goes beyond that. An author of an application now has a way to tell if they have been APE'd or had their resources folder mucked with, and they can do anything they want in response. Not to mention Apple is free to change the rules at any time.

Originally Posted by Kevin

I am sure something will replace it.

I think Apple's view of patching is changing from a minor nuisance, to being a security hole, and I think they will start to deal with patching as a security issue. If a way around is found, I fully expect Apple will tackle it as a security hole.

mrtew · Nov 6, 2007, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

My hack is just temporary measures till Apple gets it's GUI act together. Obviously 10.5 is in-between stages.

Now THAT's hilarious. I hope that was a joke! I guess it's even funnier if you really mean it though!

Why don't you do a new theme based on the old Sosumi theme once you get done with your iTunes theme... that was really cool!

roosta · Nov 7, 2007, 12:05 AM

here is the Extras2.rsrc file i'm working on. intel only i'm afraid.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/elgkcha6mj.rsrc

bear in mind this is a work in progress and contains parts hobbled from all over the place. it only has scrollbars modified.

goMac · 01:00 AM

To follow up on my own comments (re: Kevin)...

I took a look at iTunes tonight and ran the codesign tool on it. I first ran the tool on the stock iTunes. No modifications.

[codex]colin-cornabys-macbook-pro-15:Library colincornaby$ codesign -v /Applications/iTunes.app[/codex]

Terminal gave me back an empty result, which means two things:

a) iTunes is signed.
b) iTunes has not been modified since it was created at Apple and it is valid application.

I then changed the "iTunes-aiff.icns" icon, and ran codesign again. This time the terminal gave me.

[codex]colin-cornabys-macbook-pro-15:Library colincornaby$ codesign -v /Applications/iTunes.app
/Applications/iTunes.app: a sealed resource is missing or invalid[/codex]

What does this mean? Mac OS X knows that iTunes has been modified since it left Apple. Mac OS X, for all intents and purposes, no longer considers this application iTunes and no longer trusts it. This means any services that iTunes has registered with (firewall, parental controls, keychain) no longer see it as iTunes. Again, this was just a file swap, I didn't even patch iTunes.

If I put the original icon back, iTunes is restored as a valid application.

[codex]colin-cornabys-macbook-pro-15:Library colincornaby$ codesign -v /Applications/iTunes.app[/codex]

The bright side of all this is that the HIToolbox.framework is not signed last I checked, meaning you can still swap out the Extras.rsrc without upsetting the OS. This isn't to say this won't change at a later date.

If anyone is looking for more technical details on code signing, and has ADC TV access, WWDC 2006 Session 413 has more information on Code Signing, including a demo involving keychain. I honestly don't care what people decide to theme and not theme, as long as they realize what could happen if they redistribute their themes to other people. As I said, Apple could change the rules at any time and be more strict about dealing with invalid applications.

MindFad · Nov 7, 2007, 12:39 AM

It's "for all intents and purposes," by the way. Just a heads up before the expression Nazis get ya.

goMac · Nov 7, 2007, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by MindFad

It's "for all intents and purposes," by the way. Just a heads up before the expression Nazis get ya.

Sorry, that's my inner "spell it how it sounds" typing.

Kevin · Nov 7, 2007, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by .Neo

There's absolutely nothing consistent about an application using iTunes scroll bars without any other elements matching is as well.

I said I was making the Finder match iTunes. That is all I am doing. Even then they don't match very well. But it's an IMPROVEMENT over what Leopard is now.

As long as the apps and OS are consistently inconsistent I am happy.

As I made 10.4 consistently inconsistent too.

Kevin · Nov 7, 2007, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by mrtew

Now THAT's hilarious. I hope that was a joke! I guess it's even funnier if you really mean it though!

Well mrtew what was so funny about it? I haven't said anything that a ton of people haven't already said.

Why don't you do a new theme based on the old Sosumi theme once you get done with your iTunes theme... that was really cool!

Because of consistency. It took waaaaaay too much work to KEEP Sosumi consistent. Not only that, I got sick of people using my theme, slightly changing a few things, making a web page for it and claiming it was their design. This happened constantly.

silver · Nov 7, 2007, 07:20 AM

@Kevin thanks for the rsrc file. At least for me the scroll bars are way better now.

silver

Kevin · Nov 7, 2007, 07:23 AM

I've never given out my version of the resources. And since others are doing this, I doubt I will. Since most all people seem to want is the scrollbars changed. I think you were referring to roosta.

I have more than just the scrollbars changed now.

I don't want to be held responsible if something I send someone screws up their computer. I know it works on "my" computer. That is all.

mrtew · Nov 7, 2007, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well mrtew what was so funny about it? I haven't said anything that a ton of people haven't already said.

You said, "My hack is just temporary measures till Apple gets it's GUI act together. Obviously 10.5 is in-between stages." which implies that you actually expect some future version to be more consistent. Every change in the OSX GUI has looked more and more like and inconsistent in-between stage than the last and your expectation that they're going to get their GUI act together is so beautifully naive (and out of character for you) that it's hilarious to me!

silver · Nov 7, 2007, 08:00 AM

@Kevin Oops my bad, thanks for clearing that up. If at all possible please do release yours as well.

and @ roosta thanks, scroll bars look better now.

Anyone now where the traffic light close-min-max files are? Would love to get rid of that shiny jelly bean look.

silver

Kevin · Nov 7, 2007, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by mrtew

You said, "My hack is just temporary measures till Apple gets it's GUI act together. Obviously 10.5 is in-between stages." which implies that you actually expect some future version to be more consistent.

No, my reply was in reference to the ArsTech article. Which pretty much says the same thing.10.5 is in a between stage for Apple. So whatever you think I was referring to. You were wrong.

BTW Apple just added the new blue bars to iCal's latest update.

Kevin · Nov 7, 2007, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by silver

Anyone now where the traffic light close-min-max files are? Would love to get rid of that shiny jelly bean look.

Why not just use Graphite?

mrtew · Nov 7, 2007, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why not just use Graphite?

Well, I do use graphite, but they're still shiny grey jelly beans.

Originally Posted by roosta

here is the Extras2.rsrc file i'm working on. intel only i'm afraid.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/elgkcha6mj.rsrc

bear in mind this is a work in progress and contains parts hobbled from all over the place. it only has scrollbars modified.

WOW, that's GREAT!!! Just what the doctor ordered!!!!!! Thanks!!!!

Kevin · Nov 7, 2007, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by mrtew

Well, I do use graphite, but they're still shiny grey jelly beans.

Yeah, Apple should get rid of all of Aqua completely instead of leaving 1/2 of it still in. But my goal is consistency between applications right now. Going from iTunes which I use a lot, and the Finder, which I also use a lot is a different UI experience. I want to make them similar. BTW, you can make the Finder work like itunes sorta as well. Now if only the Finder displayed meta data...

WOW, that's GREAT!!! Just what the doctor ordered!!!!!! Thanks!!!!

This proves it doesn't take long to make such a consistent look between the two. Why Apple didn't take a few hours out to fix this is beyond me.

silver · Nov 7, 2007, 11:27 AM

Yes I know about graphite, but like mrtew said it's still shiny jelly beans. I was hoping to match the scroll bars that are in roosta's rsrc file.

SpaceCat85 · Nov 7, 2007, 11:28 AM

I just installed Leopard last night and noticed this one. Not sure if I like this little GUI change or not, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet and thought it might make good theme fodder

updated "stretch" buttons" (in Camino, with userstyles.org CSS for Google)

They look like the ordinary "flat" stretch buttons used in places in the Adobe palettes, but in their pressed in state (they're noticeably darker).

Of course, in typical Apple fashion the stretchy drop-down menus weren't updated to match, so places where they're side-by-side like the "Jump to" features on forums look strange

sogbrightlight · Nov 7, 2007, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, my reply was in reference to the ArsTech article. Which pretty much says the same thing.10.5 is in a between stage for Apple. So whatever you think I was referring to. You were wrong.

BTW Apple just added the new blue bars to iCal's latest update.

what blue bars are you talking about? like the iTunes ones? I don't see that.

swiz · Nov 7, 2007, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by silver

Yes I know about graphite, but like mrtew said it's still shiny jelly beans. I was hoping to match the scroll bars that are in roosta's rsrc file.

We're SOL for changing those right now, they are code created.

silver · Nov 7, 2007, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by swiz

We're SOL for changing those right now, they are code created.

Oh well, thanks for the heads up.

Kevin · Nov 7, 2007, 08:09 PM

Yeah I was going to change them myself. But since you can't, I am now sticking to making the Finder just match iTunes. For the most part.

This is the most convoluted OS Apple has put out GUI wise.

Kevin · Nov 8, 2007, 08:58 AM

Thank macthemes2.net for this bundle of goodness.

cabel.name: January 2007

:o

Apple MUST release that program. This is what I am referring to when I say 10.5 is in a transition period.

They gotta release that application!

It could be the new interface builder. Could you imagine?

alex_kac · Nov 8, 2007, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Thank macthemes2.net for this bundle of goodness.

cabel.name: January 2007

:o

Apple MUST release that program. This is what I am referring to when I say 10.5 is in a transition period.

They gotta release that application!

It could be the new interface builder. Could you imagine?

Apple won't release that. Its what they use to create their CoreUI components.

Kevin · Nov 8, 2007, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by alex_kac

Apple won't release that. Its what they use to create their CoreUI components.

I know what it is alex. They just got a patent for it and it's way of manipulating resources.

I said it would be NICE if they used it as a replacement for Interface Builder. You know, the GUI builder that comes with the Dev tools?

I also wanted to show that 10.5 IS in the middle of a major make-over. That what we see now wont be lasting very long.

I am sure Steve wanted this stuff for 10.5, but it didn't make it in time for release. That is why 10.5 has that in-between/unfinished feel that a lot of people are complaining about.

So obviously a great deal of GUI work has been done during this time. We just have yet to really see the outcome of such endeavors.

arcticmac · Nov 8, 2007, 01:23 PM

at UISF >1, they're code generated, but at 1.0, they're drawn using bitmap graphics in CoreUI's ArtFile.bin

goMac · Nov 8, 2007, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I said it would be NICE if they used it as a replacement for Interface Builder. You know, the GUI builder that comes with the Dev tools?

Why would they do that?

a) Interface Builder 3.0 just got released.
b) Interface Builder and that theme tool are used for completely different purposes.

It would be like replacing Dreamweaver with Excel.

TheSpaz · Nov 8, 2007, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by MindFad

I'm not seein' it anywhere.

How is it reproduced exactly?

You're using the Aqua variation right? It only happens on the Graphite variation.

Kevin · Nov 8, 2007, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Why would they do that?

a) Interface Builder 3.0 just got released.
b) Interface Builder and that theme tool are used for completely different purposes.

It would be like replacing Dreamweaver with Excel.

I mean release something like this as a Interface Builder.

And 3.0 is missing features that Apple applications use.

Chuckit · Nov 8, 2007, 08:00 PM

Judging from the shots, the Apple theme tool is really not comparable to Interface Builder — it's a graphics editor rather than, well, an interface builder. It's kind of like the difference between HTML and CSS — IB specifies the what, while the mysterious theme tool specifies the what's it look like. It would be cool if they would release it, though.

TheSpaz · Nov 8, 2007, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Something for you guys to be aware of:
Leopard App Casualty List Grows - Yahoo! News

"As far as the firewall's crippling of programs goes, security consultant Rich Mogull said in a Nov. 1 posting that enabling the firewall in the "Set access for specific services and applications" mode causes Leopard to digitally sign applications on launch that aren't already signed via Apple's mechanism.

"If that application happens to change during run-time, as Skype seems to, the signature no longer matches and the application won't run," Mogull said. "There are no dialogs or warnings—the icon just dances on the dock for a few bounces then disappears.""

This will also affect applications whose resources folder you mess with.

This is already happening to me...

I modified the info.plist file in Mail.app and now Mail won't remember my email password even when I check the box "Remember in Keychain". When I go back and put the old info.plist file there, everything works fine again... it remembers my password. DAMNIT!

CharlesS · Nov 8, 2007, 09:02 PM

That's because Mail is code-signed. If you tamper with it, it breaks the code signing. And if an app's code signing is invalid, the OS won't let it automatically open the keychain without a password. The feature is intended to keep nasties like viruses from getting into a program's code and reading your Keychain passwords.

I'm afraid you're just going to have to deal with the menu highlighting.

TheSpaz · Nov 8, 2007, 10:41 PM

Is there a way I can possibly re-sign the App? Or perhaps modifying the file and then re-writing the original time and date on it?

Kevin · Nov 9, 2007, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Judging from the shots, the Apple theme tool is really not comparable to Interface Builder — it's a graphics editor rather than, well, an interface builder. It's kind of like the difference between HTML and CSS — IB specifies the what, while the mysterious theme tool specifies the what's it look like. It would be cool if they would release it, though.

I was referring to what they could turn the program into eventually. Such design principles would be neat for IB.

Kevin · Nov 9, 2007, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

This is already happening to me...

I modified the info.plist file in Mail.app and now Mail won't remember my email password even when I check the box "Remember in Keychain". When I go back and put the old info.plist file there, everything works fine again... it remembers my password. DAMNIT!

Yup mail is coded. Not all application however work this way. I think it's important that a few like mail and safari etc do. But there will always be a way around it. Someone will find a way to "fool" it.

Chuckit · Nov 9, 2007, 04:52 AM

OK, there are lots of GUI-smart people here, so I figure I might as well try asking: Can anybody reliably reproduce the menubar's effect? I initially thought it was fairly simple (white/transparent linear gradient + 2px Gaussian blur), but of course it's actually much more dynamic than that. Now I'm thinking maybe it varies the maximum value of the gradient depending on the luminosity of the underlying image, but I still can't always predict what it's going to do on a given picture.

arcticmac · Nov 9, 2007, 06:28 AM

SO, for those of you complaining about signing, I've got something to try... not sure if it works, but... *.app/Contents/CodeResources is a big long plist with a bunch of data objects that have sha hashes of the resources in them. In other words, try doing

Code:
openssl dgst -sha1 -binary modifiedresourcefile | openssl enc -base64

and putting that result into the CodeResources XML (if you want to use Property list editor, you should just do

Code:
openssl dgst -sha1 modifiedresourcefile

since it takes care of the base64 encoding for you. When I do that, the message I get changes from "a sealed resource is missing or invalid" to "code or signature modified". Maybe this fixes the problem? if not, dig deeper.

cheers!

Kevin · Nov 9, 2007, 09:28 AM

To get this back on track

Looks 10x better.

0157988944 · Nov 9, 2007, 04:14 PM

Hells yeah.