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retep · Apr 28, 2003, 01:44 PM

From MacMinute.com: -

Welcome to MacMinute's live coverage of Apple's press event!

* 1:00 Online Apple Store down
* 1:05 Event has begun
* Steve Jobs is going over recent annoucments -- 12" PowerBook, 17" PowerBook, Safari, Keynote, iLife Final Cut Pro 4.
* "Today we are going to innovate more?'
* Running the old Rip. Mix. Burn." ad
* Talking about iTunes, iPod
* Talking what Rip. Mix. Burn. "really means" -- "Acquire. Manage. Listen."
* 700,000 iPods sold -- number 1 in the world
* new iPods 3rd generation - 10GB 15GB 30GB
* Lighter than the weight of 2 cds in their cases and thinner higher contrast screen, FireWire connector on the bottom, new dock, back-lit buttons, buttons above scroll wheel, line-out on the dock, USB 2.0 (firmware in June) adapter cable $19, Mac and Windows in one box.
* iPods add AAC support. On-the-go playlist directly on the iPod. Customizable main menu. Alarm and 2 more games -- solitare and parachute.
* Jobs giving demo of the "On-the-Go" playlist and main menu customization.
* 10GB - $299, 15GB - $399, 30GB - $499 -- available Friday
* (Dock, case, remote only wiht 15 and 30.)
* iTunes 4 announced:
o Adding AAC
o Adding Rendevous support
o Let you access songs from other macs
o can now backup music to DVDR
o (demoing Rendezvous)
o (It doesn't copy the music...so it's not illegal)
* Talking about Napster
* Jobs: "Internet was built for music deliver."
* Jobs is talking about the upside and downside of file sharing services;
* Jobs says 200,000 tracks are available from Apple's service with unlimited CD burning.
* The service works with all iPod models and on up to three Macs.
* All songs are encoded in 128bit AAC, many of which sound better than a CD.
* There are free 30 second previews and CD cover artwork says Jobs, "AND its not stealing -- its good karma."
* The iTunes Music Store, as Apple has called it, offers 1-click downloads (similar to Amazon.com) whehter it is a song or complete album.
* Apple says it is literally one-button to buy a song within iTunes.

I Bent My Wookiee · Apr 28, 2003, 01:53 PM

I can't wait to see them. I am ordering a 15 gig the second the stream is over.

swsteckly · Apr 28, 2003, 01:56 PM

I'm ordering a 30GB as soon as it's on the apple store.

Truly awesome. The AAC should be SO kick-ass.

djjava · Apr 28, 2003, 01:57 PM

anyone snag an image?

sanford · Apr 28, 2003, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by swsteckly:
Truly awesome. The AAC should be SO kick-ass.

Is it just me or is AAC ALREADY in the older iPods' firmware? I've already heard the AAC Apple Music Service will definitely work on any iPod, old or new, but no mention of requiring a firmware update (firmware update only needed for USB 2.0). How much you want to bet the AAC codec has been in the firmware since last August?

n~s · Apr 28, 2003, 02:00 PM

Yeah, I'm going to get a 15 gig, but I'll probably swing by the Apple store on Friday to pick mine up. Weren't they planning something in the stores this Friday

Zoom · Apr 28, 2003, 02:08 PM

Yeah, they're having an in-store event on June 2.

So, my main problem with AAC is that it's not the standard. I've got lots and lots of MP3s and I don't feel like re-ripping my whole collection of CDs. I guess the iPod handles both.

Does it take a lot longer to rip in AAC format? It's doing a lot more crunching, right?

Does AAC have any sort of built-in DRM?

How hard is it to convert AAC to MP3?

I know very little about AAC. Who's standard is it? Is there a web site with info on it?

SunSeeker · Apr 28, 2003, 02:08 PM

The ipod page is up as of NOW people
www.apple.com/ipod

iDaver · Apr 28, 2003, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by sanford:
Is it just me or is AAC ALREADY in the older iPods' firmware? I've already heard the AAC Apple Music Service will definitely work on any iPod, old or new, but no mention of requiring a firmware update (firmware update only needed for USB 2.0). How much you want to bet the AAC codec has been in the firmware since last August?

Curious, what I've seen so far of the announcements is that only new iPods decode AAC. Surely there's a firmware update for the older ones, otherwise, who's going to use the music service, which apparently only serves up AAC?

Am I missing something?

SunSeeker · Apr 28, 2003, 02:14 PM

Music Service is US only
I wonder if it will go worldwide as quicly as the iphoto printing service

I'm still waiting Apple

Zim · Apr 28, 2003, 02:19 PM

It appears you now need to have the dock in order to charge? (ie. the Belkin auto adaptor in the Apple Store would no longer work unless you bring the DOCK in your car too???)

Mike

Spliff · Apr 28, 2003, 02:19 PM

I'm a little disappointed. Still no remote or case for the low-end iPod and no dock for it either. And battery life is down from 10 hour to8 hours.

The price is the same. To me, the low-end iPod is poor value and Apple is probably getting it's largest profit margins from the 10 GB iPod.

And you still can't delete music files directly from the iPod.

Any word of OggVorbis support?

That being said, I really like the look of the new iPod.

sanford · Apr 28, 2003, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by iDaver:
Curious, what I've seen so far of the announcements is that only new iPods decode AAC. Surely there's a firmware update for the older ones, otherwise, who's going to use the music service, which apparently only serves up AAC?

Am I missing something?

Color me wrong. The iPod firmware updater 1.3 is up NOW for existing iPods. So, you DO need a firmware update for older iPods, but YES they fully support AAC as of now.

Looks like Apple did this dead-on right: Everything is available immediately: iTunes 4; the music store; and the iPod update to decode AAC. What a wonderful afternoon I shall spend destroying my bank account with the music store.

Here's something I need clarification on. I know Rendezvous integration will allow sharing of music libraries via streaming playback, but I've read in one place that Music Store downloaded songs can only be stored on one Mac, then in another place I read they can be stored on up to three Macs. Any idea which it is? (I know it's an unlimited number of iPods, but I'm not sure about how many Macs I can store my downloaded music libary on.)

sanford · Apr 28, 2003, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by Spliff:
And battery life is down from 10 hour to8 hours.

The price is the same. To me, the low-end iPod is poor value and Apple is probably getting it's largest profit margins from the 10 GB iPod.

And you still can't delete music files directly from the iPod.

Any word of OggVorbis support?

That being said, I really like the look of the new iPod.

I think thinner, lighter iPod means smaller battery equals shorter battery life. I'm ambivalent about the new look. I like the old button layout better. I get AAC for my 5 & 10 GB iPods with the firmware update (don't know about the alarm clock and games, but not sure how much I care about those -- alarm clock might be nice); and I keep my 10-hour battery life. And the screen display is fine by me, so I'm happy where I stand. Which is nice, because I'd hate to just be falling over myself to upgrade when I already have 2 perfectly good iPods.

eScrib · Apr 28, 2003, 02:35 PM

I'm glad I got my iPod a couple weeks ago, when Target was having a clearence on them. The $299 iPod doesn't have a remote or carry case (like already stated here), and it can be flashed to be up-to-date with iTunes 4 and the music store. No issues here...

And here I was thinking I was going to try and take it back today and get the updated model.

NOPE!!!

mattnl · Apr 28, 2003, 02:36 PM

the new ipods look nice.. but really the only 2 features i want are the AAC support (which is in the 1.3 software update) and the playlist creation.. that's a good one. i'm hoping that the 1.3 software update will also include that.

BrunoBruin · Apr 28, 2003, 02:38 PM

My old 5GB iPod has the dreaded draining-battery problem, which I have been unable to fix, so I am looking at these new models with great interest...

slider · Apr 28, 2003, 02:38 PM

Well I would say pluses an minuses. I guess the new button layout must be of the touch sense thing, I personally like the other layout better. No firewire port, using it as a portable HD just became a little more difficult, but at least you can just USB 2 if you're a windows user. Slimmer design is a big plus always, bummer the base iPod is missing the accessories. I am not blown away, but it's nice. I am personal glad to have my 10GB with the firewire port. Don't know if I will be buying music online, but I applaud Apple for continuing to try and come up with a workable solution.

eScrib · Apr 28, 2003, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by slider:
Well I would say pluses an minuses. I guess the new button layout must be of the touch sense thing, I personally like the other layout better. No firewire port, using it as a portable HD just became a little more difficult, but at least you can just USB 2 if you're a windows user. Slimmer design is a big plus always, bummer the base iPod is missing the accessories. I am not blown away, but it's nice. I am personal glad to have my 10GB with the firewire port. Don't know if I will be buying music online, but I applaud Apple for continuing to try and come up with a workable solution.

Well put!!!

sanford · Apr 28, 2003, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by SunSeeker:
Music Service is US only
I wonder if it will go worldwide as quicly as the iphoto printing service

I'm still waiting Apple

That's a rat's nest of licensing issues, not a distribution problem. I feel for you, but international content licensing is a rolling nightmare.

mkuehn · Apr 28, 2003, 02:41 PM

So can anyone confirm that the alarm clock, new games, "star ratings" WON'T EVER be available on the older iPods?

Or maybe someone knows of a way to get them there anyways?

Thanks!
Matthew

Zim · Apr 28, 2003, 02:48 PM

I was also looking to see the ability to read digital camera pics in (CF/MMC/SM, etc) via any of the available 3rd party card-readers (connecting to the ipod). This shoula been just a SW issue for Apple, but no sign of this ability.

I don't need to be able to view them, but onlong trips, if I've got 30G of portable storage, would be nice to use the ipod instead of ponying up for more memory cards. I already own the needed card readers.

Wallet was in-hand (based on rumors), pre-announcement. Now its back in pocket since other vendors are promising this feature (and fundamentally the new ipod doesn't offer that much more).

Mike

sanford · Apr 28, 2003, 02:48 PM

No firewire port, using it as a portable HD just became a little more difficult, but at least you can just USB 2 if you're a windows user.[/B]

No firewire? There's firewire. In fact, that's already there is out-of-the-box. You need a firewire-to-USB 2.0 adapter cable to use it with USB 2.0. There's still firewire. There will always be firewire.

sanford · Apr 28, 2003, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by mkuehn:
So can anyone confirm that the alarm clock, new games, "star ratings" WON'T EVER be available on the older iPods?

Or maybe someone knows of a way to get them there anyways?

Thanks!
Matthew

Color us extremely unhappy. Firmware update does not include alarm clock, games, star ratings, customizable menus, or on-the-go playlists. Alarm clock might be nice but on-the-go playlists would have been great. No somebody who knows software development please explain to me technically how it would be impossible to add the on-the-go playlist to the existing iPod software. Please, before I drive over to the Apple Store and starting throwing my older iPod at the staff. (And it's one of those old, heavy ones, so it's gonna hurt.)

sanford · Apr 28, 2003, 02:54 PM

Oh, and if you any of you -- like me -- went straight to download the QuickTime 6.2 updater right when iTunes was available, you got the 6.1.1 updater -- bad link. Just download it again now and you'll get the actual 6.2 updater software.

retep · Apr 28, 2003, 02:55 PM

It looks as if the iPod has a different connector for the dock and the firewire cable will plug into the dock not the iPod itself.

Zim · Apr 28, 2003, 03:10 PM

My guess would be that the older ipods could support playlist on the fly, etc, from a firmware point of view, but perhaps the "interface" (ie. the new buttons), were judged as "needed" to make it usable.

Not saying that makes it good or right, or that even an ugly hack might have made it possible (but at least it would be there).

Frankly I don't see a lot about the new hardware to be excited about, considering how long Apple has had to make improvements.

Mike

agentz · Apr 28, 2003, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by retep:
It looks as if the iPod has a different connector for the dock and the firewire cable will plug into the dock not the iPod itself.

Anyone figured out what the hell that backlight entry on the menu is? It doesn't have a > next to it and I can't seem to figure out what it is...

mrl14 · Apr 28, 2003, 03:13 PM

at least they fixed the issue with the remote/earphone hole cracking

a2daj · Apr 28, 2003, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by retep:
It looks as if the iPod has a different connector for the dock and the firewire cable will plug into the dock not the iPod itself.

??

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...nMore=M9127G/A

I believe there's a difference between the iPod Dock and the Dock Connector in their literature.

retep · Apr 28, 2003, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by a2daj:
??

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...nMore=M9127G/A

I believe there's a difference between the iPod Dock and the Dock Connector in their literature.

Oops! Didn't see that. But it does mean that you have to shell out extra cash in order to be able to go without the dock.

Originally posted by agentz:
Anyone figured out what the hell that backlight entry on the menu is? It doesn't have a > next to it and I can't seem to figure out what it is...

This controls the screen backlight on the new iPod - don't know why there's no arrow though.

dav · Apr 28, 2003, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Zim:
My guess would be that the older ipods could support playlist on the fly, etc, from a firmware point of view, but perhaps the "interface" (ie. the new buttons), were judged as "needed" to make it usable.

but there's no new buttons, same button functions are available on the older ipods - physical location shouldn't matter.

sanford · Apr 28, 2003, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by retep:
This controls the screen backlight on the new iPod - don't know why there's no arrow though.

It's in the 1.3 firmware. No arrow because it's a switch: Off and on.

AJ · Apr 28, 2003, 03:39 PM

So, let me get this straight: they have taken away the menu press-hold to turn on backlighting? I guess they must have if it is a touch switch. OMFG, that is a stupid decision.

AJ

n~s · Apr 28, 2003, 03:40 PM

My local Apple store is having a special event this Friday, May 2nd, from 6 to 10 PM..New iPods, DJ, Raffle, Free T-Shirts, yadda, yadda, yadda.

agentz · Apr 28, 2003, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by AJ:
So, let me get this straight: they have taken away the menu press-hold to turn on backlighting? I guess they must have if it is a touch switch. OMFG, that is a stupid decision.

AJ

Nope you can still press-hold the menu button to toggle the backlight.

But I can't make the backlight option do anything on my 10gig pod. When I highlight it none of the buttons do anything at all. If I highlight it and press the select button the iPod clicks like it should do something but it doesn't.

Gah. I swear I'm not being dense here!

AJ · Apr 28, 2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by agentz:
Nope you can still press-hold the menu button to toggle the backlight.

But I can't make the backlight option do anything on my 10gig pod. When I highlight it none of the buttons do anything at all. If I highlight it and press the select button the iPod clicks like it should do something but it doesn't.

Gah. I swear I'm not being dense here!

I am referring to the new iPods. Do they have the press-hold backlight switch? Why the earth would apple put that there otherwise?

AJ

macdevil · Apr 28, 2003, 03:56 PM

I am glad I picked up my old 10 gig at Target closeout price. 2 bills. I will probably get my girlfriend a new one since she is still attached to Windows...

Andy

ratlater · Apr 28, 2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by sanford:
Color us extremely unhappy. Firmware update does not include alarm clock, games, star ratings, customizable menus, or on-the-go playlists. Alarm clock might be nice but on-the-go playlists would have been great. No somebody who knows software development please explain to me technically how it would be impossible to add the on-the-go playlist to the existing iPod software. Please, before I drive over to the Apple Store and starting throwing my older iPod at the staff. (And it's one of those old, heavy ones, so it's gonna hurt.)

Color you extremely unhappy. Apple needs to make money, so they need to sell iPods. If you need on the go playlists and song rating from the iPod buy a new one! Apple gave us the ability to play AAC on the old iPods which is great. Everyone always wants something for nothing.

-matt

agentz · Apr 28, 2003, 04:09 PM

OK, sussed it - you've got to have the backlight timer set to off in the settings for the damn switch to work. Weird.

fhoubi · Apr 28, 2003, 04:16 PM

Say it isn't true!!? The new iPod looks like she-it! WTF?

Time to grab an old 5 or 10 MB iPod tomorrow!

Eug · Apr 28, 2003, 04:19 PM

I suspect there will be a Firewire travel cable that will come out soon after the new iPod is introduced, for $20. That will appease the laptop users. [EDIT] Doh! It's already out, for $19.[/EDIT]

I'm hoping for a 40 GB version by Xmas. I already have 30 GB of MP3, so that will give me some breathing room as I continue to expand my CD (and thus MP3) collection.

I doubt I'll be using the new single song purchase site though for actual music purchases very often. I'll probably demo the songs and then if I like it I'll just go buy the CD.

MP3 is still a much more useful format for me. None of my equipment supports AAC.

Myriad · Apr 28, 2003, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by ratlater:
Color you extremely unhappy. Apple needs to make money, so they need to sell iPods. If you need on the go playlists and song rating from the iPod buy a new one! Apple gave us the ability to play AAC on the old iPods which is great. Everyone always wants something for nothing.

-matt

Actually, I'd like something for the $500 I spent on my iPod nine months ago. I certainly wouldn't call that nothing. No one would accept having to buy a new machine every time Apple develops a new version of their operating system just to use all of it's features, so why should it be different with the iPod?

bewebste · Apr 28, 2003, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by retep:
Oops! Didn't see that. But it does mean that you have to shell out extra cash in order to be able to go without the dock.

Actually, all three of the new models come with a cable that connects directly from the dock connector on the bottom of the iPod to Firewire. The 10 GB doesn't even come with a dock. So, you just have to have the cable with you, the dock is optional.

Originally posted by retep:

This controls the screen backlight on the new iPod - don't know why there's no arrow though.

It simply toggles the backlight on and off. You still set the number of seconds it remains on in Settings->Backlight Timer. This is because if you need the light on and it's already dark, it's nearly impossible to navigate down to the setting to turn it on without being able to see. Also note that it's important that that item is on the bottom of the list, so in the dark you can just crank the scroll wheel down to the bottom and click without having to see.

HashPipeK · Apr 28, 2003, 04:31 PM

Y105sucks.com has the commercials online!

Lt_Core · Apr 28, 2003, 04:44 PM

Can the new iPod still act as a portable firewire drive? From what I can tell just the dock connector end is different, so connecting it to an Xserve shouldn't be a problem, right?

slider · Apr 28, 2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by sanford:
No firewire? There's firewire. In fact, that's already there is out-of-the-box. You need a firewire-to-USB 2.0 adapter cable to use it with USB 2.0. There's still firewire. There will always be firewire.

Might want to reread the post, I said no firewire port, not no firewire. Of course it has firewire.

chabig · Apr 28, 2003, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Myriad:
Actually, I'd like something for the $500 I spent on my iPod nine months ago. I certainly wouldn't call that nothing. No one would accept having to buy a new machine every time Apple develops a new version of their operating system just to use all of it's features, so why should it be different with the iPod?

Actually, most people DO accept the fact that they have to buy a new machine. I bought a Canon S100 digital camera when they were first released. Do you think Canon sent me an S110, S200, or S230 when they released those? No.

Chris

DietProZac · Apr 28, 2003, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Zim:
I was also looking to see the ability to read digital camera pics in (CF/MMC/SM, etc) via any of the available 3rd party card-readers (connecting to the ipod). This shoula been just a SW issue for Apple, but no sign of this ability.

I don't need to be able to view them, but onlong trips, if I've got 30G of portable storage, would be nice to use the ipod instead of ponying up for more memory cards. I already own the needed card readers.

Wallet was in-hand (based on rumors), pre-announcement. Now its back in pocket since other vendors are promising this feature (and fundamentally the new ipod doesn't offer that much more).

Mike

Which vendors would those be?

Myriad · Apr 28, 2003, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by chabig:
Actually, most people DO accept the fact that they have to buy a new machine. I bought a Canon S100 digital camera when they were first released. Do you think Canon sent me an S110, S200, or S230 when they released those? No.

Chris

But that's a hardware issue. I don't expect Apple to send me a new iPod, but I do expect Apple to make software that supports older model iPods. And it's not likeI want them to support hardware that's half a decade old. Yesterday, my iPod was the best hardware you could buy, and I think it should run the latest software.