[starman]

Hi all,
I started looking at TVs and there are SO F'N MANY with SO F'N MANY OPTIONS that it's giving me a headache. I'd like to whittle it down to:

Between 40 and 50"
HDMI (I'm not sure if it NEEDS to be 1.2 or 1.3)
1080p
Component input
I'm trying to keep it under $2000

It needs to be a reliable brand
I need to be able to get it from somewhere that I can return it easily (like BB or CC, etc.)

It needs to work with a PS3, 360, Wii, and TiVo HD.

Thanks

[Dakarʒ]

I might have to bookmark this thread for summer when I do the same thing.

I hope you didn't check this thread to find I just posted something that was neither funny nor helpful.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I might have to bookmark this thread for summer when I do the same thing.

I hope you didn't check this thread to find I just posted something hat was neither funny nor helpful.

I did, and you're now on my sh*t list

[Dakarʒ]

Took you long enough.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

What kind you want? Flat? DLP. LCD RP?

What is more important. Flat and expensive or picture quality and good price but thick?

[Dakarʒ]

or Plasma?

[starman]

I've been avoiding plasma because of all the terrible things I've read about their reliability.

Picture quality is a must, and I'm leaning towards LCD.

[Dakarʒ]

Damn you, that was a trap for analogue.

Edit; Honestly, everything bad I hear about plasma is hearsay. People say they're prone to terrible things, but I never hear anyone say that those terrible things actually happened to them.

[starman]

The most common thing I've heard is that the bulb goes bad in a short period of time and it's much harder and expensive to fix than an LCD.

[Dakarʒ]

Short period is what? Estimates I've heard with heavy use still put it around a decades worth of life.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Short period is what? Estimates I've heard with heavy use still put it around a decades worth of life.

Starman plays video games. Plasmas get burn in.

Plasma's are limited to 720p unless you pay retarded amounts of money.

Plasma's use a ton of power

Plasma's do last years but they FADE over time like a CRT.

Plasma sales have dropped a ton in the past year as LCD is matching or beating them in features/quality/price.

[Dakarʒ]

Like I said, no gripes first hand.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I know people who have been hell bent on wanting a plasma (Eug being one) and when they see it in store they hate it.

I can see why though. First they have a glass screen that is very reflective. If you have it in a room with light you see every reflection like a CRT set except even bigger. LCD's have non-reflective screens

Even worse for me though is you can see the space between each pixel (or whatever it is) so you get a screen door effect and the image isn't film like.

[Dakarʒ]

Well, I'm much more open to the idea of an LCD than I was two years ago. But (speaking of hearsay) I've also heard plasma is sometimes the better choice over lcd when you go bigger than 40'.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Well, I'm much more open to the idea of an LCD than I was two years ago. But (speaking of hearsay) I've also heard plasma is sometimes the better choice over lcd when you go bigger than 40'.

Well technically the word was it isn't "Better" but "Cheaper" when going over 40"

Things have changed though.

[Dakarʒ]

I've got to say, I'm surprised some other people haven't piped in with suggestions yet.

[mduell]

Westinghouse (42" or 47") or Sharp AQUOS (42")

[Nodnarb]

Samsung 40" 1080p: $1849.97

I don't have this exact model, but I recently got two different samsungs (a 56" DLP and a 32" LCD) and couldn't be happier, I strongly recommend you take a look at them.

Edit: Just saw you said it needs to be from a CC or Bestbuy. I bought one TV from circuit city, and then when I saw the Amazon deals bought the 56" from there. CC and BB cannot/will not match Amazon's prices, simple as that. You can get it from one of the box stores, but you'll be paying for it. Take a look at Amazon's TV policy, they're pretty reasonable if anything goes wrong.

[Uriel]

I was in the market for a new T.V. recently. I'm not rich (I'm a college student) so my budget was a bit less than yours. However, that didn't keep me from researching beyond my means. I'll try to share what I found with you. Hopefully it will help, however it's just what I learned. I'm sure there's very many other perspectives that have plenty of validity to them.

DLP, LCD and Plasma all have their good points. Deciding which ones depends on your needs, wants and budget.

DLP

Strengths: Easily the most affordable for the largest screen. Strong colors. No worries about burn-in. Fairly light.

Weaknesses- Larger, not wall mountable (some people don't care). Lamp replacment runs in at about $200 every 3 years. More fragile if you move them. The viewing angle is fairly weak. Light can really wash out the screen.

LCD

Strengths: small footprint. Long screen life. Burn in has become pretty much a non-issue with newer models. More affordable than plasma. Prices dropping like a rock. Great in bright rooms. Fairly lightweight.

Weaknesses: black levels are weakest of the 3. Some people think the contrast ratios can be poor compared to DLP and Plasma.

Plasma

Strengths: great contrast. small footprint.

Weaknesses: Heavy. Expensive. Still lots of burn-in issues with a lot of them. Not as good in bright light areas.

Questions I would ask yourself:

Do I really need 1080p? Why? - There's really 3 reasons to get 1080p. 1. You want to use it as a computer screen. 2. You have HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. 3. You want to "future proof" your TV set. However please remember that even with 20/20 vision your viewing distance on a 42-50in TV is going to be 7-10 feet. If your further than that most of the time, or if your eyesight is poorer you may want to consider 720p.

What is the lighting situation in the room it's going to be? - This can be a big deal, if you cannot control the light in your rooom a DLP/plasma is going to not live up to it's image expectations.

What's your budget? What's more important within that budget? - If your budget is $2,000. Awesome. What are going to be your top few uses for this T.V.? Which ones strengths fit those uses within your budget?

I personally went for a LCD recently. I am living in an apartment, but moving soon. I don't know how much of the light I"ll be able to control and I just can't afford a plasma. I also don't know what my financial situation will be in a few years so replacing a lamp for DLP worried me a bit, as well as the large footprint on a already small apartment.

I picked up a Westinghouse LVM-42W2. It's not the best LCD, but it fit my budget. Woot.com had a refurb deal going on where I picked it up for 1,050 shipped. It's 1080p and 42in. For my situation that was an excellent deal.

If you narrow it down to LCD, DLP, Plasma I can definetly talk to you about which models we can look for. I did so much research it wasn't even funny. Maybe I can save you a little time.

[Dakarʒ]

Contrast and black levels. I knew there was a reason I had a grudge against LCD.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Uriel 

IDLP

Strengths: Easily the most affordable for the largest screen. Strong colors. No worries about burn-in. Fairly light.

Weaknesses- Larger, not wall mountable (some people don't care). Lamp replacment runs in at about $200 every 3 years. More fragile if you move them. The viewing angle is fairly weak. Light can really wash out the screen.

Wow that sound pretty much like my thread years ago on this:
http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/223497/

At the time I made that LCD's sucked but a year later they had beat many DLP's in almost every way.

If you want the best picture on the planet you get a rear projection LCoS set. It isn't even that expensive.

[Nexus5]

Originally Posted by starman 

The most common thing I've heard is that the bulb goes bad in a short period of time and it's much harder and expensive to fix than an LCD.

"The bulp goes bad"? What are you talking about? Plasmas do not have a "bulp". The plasma is emitting light by itself, no bulb.

Plasma display - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

nexus5.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Nexus5 

"The bulp goes bad"? What are you talking about? Plasmas do not have a "bulp". The plasma is emitting light by itself, no bulb.

Plasma display - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

nexus5.

He means the phosphors fade.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Contrast and black levels. I knew there was a reason I had a grudge against LCD.

I got a Sony E2000 and it has a dynamic iris that pretty much takes care of both these issues for me, blacks are black and the contract is great. Viewing angle is pretty damn good and I got a 46" for around $1200 so I am happy. Comcast was at my house and marveling at the HD quality on discovery, he said he hooks up a lot of HDTVs but this one was very film like and had a great "surface" to the screen. he took the model and was going to buy one.

Ive really had nothing but compliments on my Wega.

Here is my model: Buy the Sony 46" Grand WEGA� LCD Projection TV (KDF-46E2000) and other Projection TVs at circuitcity.com

[Buckaroo]

Costco carries Spectre. I bought a 42" LCD 1080p with Tuner for somewhere around $1400.

[Buckaroo]

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...=C&ec=&topnav=

[n8236]

www.avsforum.com

I've done my research for a 40" lcd hdtv and narrowed it down to three choices.

1) Sharp Aquous (banding issues)
2) Sony Bravia (clouding issues)
3) Samsung (minor issues, nothing close to those two)

I'm going w/ Samsung.

Note: All the tvs i looked at can display 1080p. Do not get 1080i, worthless.

For 2k, u can easily get any of these tvs at 40", but a few hundred more for a 46".

I suggest you don't buy Sharp or Sony online because if you have any of the related issues, you're screwed off the RMAs etc. Also, don't get tricked by buying those tvs from the grey-market, Sharp/Sony or any manufacturer won't recognize them because they didn't come through the correct channels of distribution. So spend a tad more to buy from an authorized dealer.

Sony isn't recognizing the clouding issues, so you have to push your case to get a replacement (if you have issues).

Sharp is willing to swap till you get one w/ no banding issues. But a hassle to return back and forth.

If you buy from Costco or some local distributor, u can easily return them for any of their issues. But they're obviously more expensive.

[exca1ibur]

SAMSUNG's Digital World - LCD TV | LN-S4095D

[starman]

One thing about these TVs: for those of you with multiple sources (consoles, TiVo, etc.), what are you using for switchers? I think I'm going to have to ditch my receiver also.

[goMac]

The Samsungs are nice. I have the LN-S4096. The 4095 and 4096 are both very nice, but the new T series is out. The T series has 1080p LCD's with 10,000:1 and 15,000:1 contrast ratios.

So you could get the LN-S4095 or 4096, both of which are perfectly good tv's at a pretty good price right now. Or pay a bit more for the T series and it's higher contrast ratios. The only downside of the T series at this point is they have no CableCard and no digital cable tuners, if you're into that sort of thing.

The 4096 has both Cablecard and a QAM tuner.

[Uriel]

I wouldn't base too much off contrast ratio numbers. Each company rates them differently. Kinda like comparing only Mhz of a computer.

[smacintush]

Funny, I have a 42" plasma and there is NO screen door effect, the picture is beautiful and to be honest one would have to be retarded or deliberately trying to damage it to cause any "burn-in".

I think that all of the modern HDTV sets have their advantages and disadvantages, it's all a matter of what suits your needs. I'm quite sure I would have been perfectly happy with an LCD, but as it is I'm perfectly happy with my plasma.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Uriel 

I wouldn't base too much off contrast ratio numbers. Each company rates them differently. Kinda like comparing only Mhz of a computer.

Factory claims of contrast ratios are always WAY exaggerated.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Damn you, that was a trap for analogue.

Edit; Honestly, everything bad I hear about plasma is hearsay. People say they're prone to terrible things, but I never hear anyone say that those terrible things actually happened to them.

My local store which sells a lot of them does see the stuff happen with plasmas from time to time, particularly with gamers' burn-in.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I know people who have been hell bent on wanting a plasma (Eug being one) and when they see it in store they hate it.

I've never been hell bent on buying a plasma. Well, I wanted one in 2000, but ended up getting a CRT. The CRT had a better quality picture and was $10000 less. CRTs have stagnated though, and plasmas are way better than they used to be, and now exist at 1080p. Unfortunately, the good ones cost way too much money.

I just don't like most rear projection TVs. I'm not a big fan of LCD's low contrast and poor black levels, but I'd still rather have a flat panel LCD than a rear projection of any kind.

Even worse for me though is you can see the space between each pixel (or whatever it is) so you get a screen door effect and the image isn't film like.

That's a cheap plasma.

Originally Posted by mduell 

Westinghouse (42" or 47") or Sharp AQUOS (42")

Westinghouse TVs generally are feature rich and inexpensive, but are of mediocre quality. Last year's models are plagued with strange bugs and problems, including random lockups, corner light bleeding, and uneven backlighting.

In any case, the best LCDs I've come across so far are the Sony Bravia XBR line. Too bad they cost so damn much. They consistently have the best contrast (in the real world) to my eyes, and just as importantly, they actually look pretty good with crappy analogue SD inputs. I see a lot of LCDs that do pretty well with HD content, but are almost unusable with analogue cable, and don't look that hot with component either. This is particularly true with the really cheap LCD TV's. I have a Dell 26" LCD, and it look quite reasonable with digital HD over DVI. However, it's basically unwatchable over component on certain channels IMO.

[Uriel]

Westinghouse TVs generally are feature rich and inexpensive, but are of mediocre quality. Last year's models are plagued with strange bugs and problems, including random lockups, corner light bleeding, and uneven backlighting.

The people on avsforum.com have been realy pleased with the more recent renditions of them. They have their problems, sure. However I can name about 5 major problems with almost every set out there for some reason. Interestingly enough Westinghouse uses the same screen manufacturer as Samsung right now.

I do agree it's a budget set, however for some people on a budget, that's exactly what's needed. There's plenty of good Westinghouse sets that are pretty nice quality.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Uriel 

The people on avsforum.com have been realy pleased with the more recent renditions of them. They have their problems, sure. However I can name about 5 major problems with almost every set out there for some reason. Interestingly enough Westinghouse uses the same screen manufacturer as Samsung right now.

You mean Samsung? Samsung generally makes its own screens.

Similarly, unless it's changed recently, Westinghouse uses Chi Mei panels. There's nothing wrong with Chi Mei, but let's just say that Westinghouse doesn't bring the best out of Chi Mei screens. (BTW, I think some Mac screens were Chi Mei at some point. Apple also uses Samsung screens, as well as LG-Philips, etc.)

I do agree it's a budget set, however for some people on a budget, that's exactly what's needed. There's plenty of good Westinghouse sets that are pretty nice quality.

Yes. However, the thing I've noticed is that they are not consistent. It's not so bad now since they're much more common in-store, but I wouldn't want to get one of these mail order because the QA is suspect.

So basically, I agree. It's a budget panel, and indeed it looks like one. The contrast ratios are OK but not great, and it's only OK with analogue inputs. The good news is that it costs half of what a Bravia XBR costs.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by n8236 

www.avsforum.com

I've done my research for a 40" lcd hdtv and narrowed it down to three choices.

1) Sharp Aquous (banding issues)
2) Sony Bravia (clouding issues)
3) Samsung (minor issues, nothing close to those two)

I'm going w/ Samsung.

Note: All the tvs i looked at can display 1080p. Do not get 1080i, worthless.

For 2k, u can easily get any of these tvs at 40", but a few hundred more for a 46".

I suggest you don't buy Sharp or Sony online because if you have any of the related issues, you're screwed off the RMAs etc. Also, don't get tricked by buying those tvs from the grey-market, Sharp/Sony or any manufacturer won't recognize them because they didn't come through the correct channels of distribution. So spend a tad more to buy from an authorized dealer.

Sony isn't recognizing the clouding issues, so you have to push your case to get a replacement (if you have issues).

Sharp is willing to swap till you get one w/ no banding issues. But a hassle to return back and forth.

If you buy from Costco or some local distributor, u can easily return them for any of their issues. But they're obviously more expensive.

This sounds like very good advise, but I have one question, why do you consider Costco as more expensive?

[villalobos]

i am enjoying my DLP Mitsubishi. yeah it's thicker than a plasma or LCD BUT is it lighter, and cheaper.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by villalobos 

i am enjoying my DLP Mitsubishi. yeah it's thicker than a plasma or LCD BUT is it lighter, and cheaper.

How much rainbow effect do current DLPs have? I stopped looking at DLPs about 2 years ago, because the rainbow effect was far too distracting for me. However, I hear they're better these days.

[Uriel]

Similarly, unless it's changed recently, Westinghouse uses Chi Mei panels. There's nothing wrong with Chi Mei, but let's just say that Westinghouse doesn't bring the best out of Chi Mei screens. (BTW, I think some Mac screens were Chi Mei at some point. Apple also uses Samsung screens, as well as LG-Philips, etc.)

http://investintaiwan.nat.gov.tw/en/...006110801.html

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

How much rainbow effect do current DLPs have? I stopped looking at DLPs about 2 years ago, because the rainbow effect was far too distracting for me. However, I hear they're better these days.

If they still have a wheel they still have rainbows no matter what RPM or number of colours.

DLP's are switching to LED's though which gets rid of the rainbow problem.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Uriel 

http://investintaiwan.nat.gov.tw/en/...006110801.html

Interesting, although Samsung still makes its own panels. Basically, that means that Samsung uses more than just itself as the panel supplier.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Eug 

My local store which sells a lot of them does see the stuff happen with plasmas from time to time, particularly with gamers' burn-in.


I've never been hell bent on buying a plasma. Well, I wanted one in 2000, but ended up getting a CRT. The CRT had a better quality picture and was $10000 less. CRTs have stagnated though, and plasmas are way better than they used to be, and now exist at 1080p. Unfortunately, the good ones cost way too much money.

I just don't like most rear projection TVs. I'm not a big fan of LCD's low contrast and poor black levels, but I'd still rather have a flat panel LCD than a rear projection of any kind.

I think you've successfully captured my thinking on the subject.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Funny, I have a 42" plasma and there is NO screen door effect, the picture is beautiful and to be honest one would have to be retarded or deliberately trying to damage it to cause any "burn-in".

I think that all of the modern HDTV sets have their advantages and disadvantages, it's all a matter of what suits your needs. I'm quite sure I would have been perfectly happy with an LCD, but as it is I'm perfectly happy with my plasma.

You're only one person, but like I said, I never hear negative things from the Plasma owners directly. Thanks for input.

[Dakarʒ]

I'm surprised I haven't heard Panasonic mentioned at all. All the professional reviews I hear about them generally cite them as one of the best for Plasmas.

[CaseCom]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I'm surprised I haven't heard Panasonic mentioned at all. All the professional reviews I hear about them generally cite them as one of the best for Plasmas.

Probably because one of the requirements of the OP is 1080p and Panasonic's consumer sets have been almost all 720p/768p until now. Panasonic is coming out with a full 1080p lineup this spring, but it starts at $2500 for the 42-inch and goes up steeply from there.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Eug 

How much rainbow effect do current DLPs have? I stopped looking at DLPs about 2 years ago, because the rainbow effect was far too distracting for me. However, I hear they're better these days.

Bothered me a lot on my friend's Samsung (which is about 3 y o) but I can't see it on mine.

[starman]

Yesterday I finally got to BB and CC to look at TVs. I was all ready to drop $1899 on a Samsung when I thought I should check out the DLPs. $1799 for a Samsung DLP that's 52" (or maybe it was 56"). Anyway, then I started questioning price vs. type. Where the TV is going to go, 52" would fit quite nicely because it would then take up almost the same space as the current TV's entire entertainment system is in.

The problem was that I stood up, walked a foot to the right and about 2 feet back and the picture went dark because of the viewing angle. A little further back and it was better. I don't know the model number and the ones listed on CC's site don't have any for $1799.

Anyway, the point is, I went back to look at LCDs that are in the 50" range and DOINK! the prices were WAY too high for a TV.

So now I'm thinking that a DLP would be a better deal. My only worry is that I had a 52" rear projection TV once before ('95 or so) and eventually the thing went out of alignment and became a terrible mess to fix. Would that happen with a DLP?

Also, people tend to sit around the TV at home. On the love seat, on the floor, on the couch. Wherever we feel comfortable. I'll have to check that screen again but it seems to me that I might have problems with viewing angles.

And yes, I'd go to AVS (I've been going there for years) but the S/N ratio is too high for me sometimes.

[Eug]

The problem was that I stood up, walked a foot to the right and about 2 feet back and the picture went dark because of the viewing angle.

That's precisely why I dislike rear projection TVs in general. The viewing angle is vastly decreased even on the best rear projection sets.

[crabsandbeer]

I love my Vizio 47" LCD. Very affordable at Costco.