Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Pci-x

Pci-x
Thread Tools
otheronenorehto
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
May 31, 2005, 01:39 PM
 
Apple is making it really hard for me to lay down the money for a G5! I was almost sold on the new reduced price DP 2.0. Then I noticed that it only had PCI slots available. PCI will not be able to handle the Hi- Definition 1:1 capture cards, so I looked into the DP 2.3 and 2.7.

The Dp 2.3 and 2.7 both have PCI-X and there is a black magic HD card made for PCI-X at the moment. But on closer examination I saw that the "new" G5's only had PCI-X 62/64 133. This is a standard that is near the end of its life. What PCI-X computers that are not getting replaced with PCI express are being replaced with PCI-X 266 or 533. As far as I can tell the new G5's wont even be able to run the next generation of uncompressed HD capture cards...

your thoughs?
     
rm199
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: May 2002
Status: Offline
May 31, 2005, 01:48 PM
 
     
hmurchison2001
Senior User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
May 31, 2005, 04:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by otheronenorehto
Apple is making it really hard for me to lay down the money for a G5! I was almost sold on the new reduced price DP 2.0. Then I noticed that it only had PCI slots available. PCI will not be able to handle the Hi- Definition 1:1 capture cards, so I looked into the DP 2.3 and 2.7.

The Dp 2.3 and 2.7 both have PCI-X and there is a black magic HD card made for PCI-X at the moment. But on closer examination I saw that the "new" G5's only had PCI-X 62/64 133. This is a standard that is near the end of its life. What PCI-X computers that are not getting replaced with PCI express are being replaced with PCI-X 266 or 533. As far as I can tell the new G5's wont even be able to run the next generation of uncompressed HD capture cards...

your thoughs?

The Blackmagic card has an adapter that allows you to run on PCI-X systems. The new G5s won't be able to run the next generation cards but since PCI-X dominates the capture card space that's not much of an issue. We're going to have plenty of options for the forseeable future and when it comes time to leave PCI-X for good there will finally be mature PCI-Express cards aplenty to ease the transition.
http://hmurchison.blogspot.com/ highly opinionated ramblings free of charge :)
     
otheronenorehto  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
Jun 1, 2005, 05:29 AM
 

I don't really agree with the OP of that thread. I am believe that the G5 processors are fine where they are right now and I can accept PC3200 ram because G5's have room for a lot of ram and for me the quantity of ram is more important that a small speed boost.

The PCI and slow PCI-X 133 might be ok for the everyday user or even a pro that was looking for a 1-2year solution. As someone who edits video freelance I am looking for a machine that will have longevity. I am aware of the PCI-x Black magic card which is very nice.

Admittedly Real time HD is still in the domain of $100,000 machines. However, I can see real time HD on the horizon for High end PC's and PM's but not for a PCI-X interface.

Really I love macs. I was trained to edit video in Premier and FCP. Now that I have to spend my own money to buy a computer though I want to make sure I am investing wisely in a machine. I am not really a mac basher but more a mac fanatic in a bind...
     
eddiecatflap
Baninated
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: http://www.rotharmy.com
Status: Offline
Jun 1, 2005, 11:18 AM
 
wait for multi-core macs with pci-express

i am
     
otheronenorehto  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
Jun 6, 2005, 11:04 AM
 
I just want to point out that I was wrong on one acount. PCI-X 133 is currently the highest end PCI-X interface. Unfortunately any upgrade to 266 or 533 would have to be an updgrade to the entire motherboard. I still stand by my arguement that PCI express is the better long term investment...
     
rm199
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: May 2002
Status: Offline
Jun 6, 2005, 11:13 AM
 
Now that Apple is swapped to Intel perhaps PCI express will be included as a bonus

*grin*
     
otheronenorehto  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
Jun 7, 2005, 06:35 AM
 
I hope so,

personally I am an AMD fanboi when it comes to the PC world. I think the jury in my head is still out about this whole Apple/intel thing I guess I will wait till the end of the summer to see what developes out of it.
     
rm199
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: May 2002
Status: Offline
Jun 7, 2005, 07:55 AM
 
On the surface it appears to be very good news for the portable lines - Intel has demonstrated they can lead the pack with the Pentium-M. It is the Pentium-M Yonah that looks exciting according to the Intel roadmap 2006 - the desktop chips are not far from what they are now so whether Apple uses them or G5s or AMD in the desktop seems pretty mute. It would have been nice to see AMD in the desktops and Intel in the portables though...
     
otheronenorehto  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
Jun 7, 2005, 08:54 AM
 
speculation is all I've got. I am pretty sure that I am going to buy a G5 instead of building a dual opteron workstation for now. I will resign myself to shelling out the bucks for the black magic card. My questions now focus around Raid setup with a G5. I would really like to impliment 0+1. Does anyone have any practical experience connecting a G5 to a small Raid through Fiber Channel? Does anyone know if/which generic break out raid boxes could work with a G5 or would my only option be an Xserve RAID?

Could I have a raid 0 set up in my G5 and conect it to the +1 through fiber channel or will I need just a medium boot drive inside the G5 and then 0+1 outside through the fiber channel?
     
hmurchison2001
Senior User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Jun 8, 2005, 12:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by rm199
On the surface it appears to be very good news for the portable lines - Intel has demonstrated they can lead the pack with the Pentium-M. It is the Pentium-M Yonah that looks exciting according to the Intel roadmap 2006 - the desktop chips are not far from what they are now so whether Apple uses them or G5s or AMD in the desktop seems pretty mute. It would have been nice to see AMD in the desktops and Intel in the portables though...

Actually that should be "moot". I like AMD's products "today" however we're not going to see the Pro and Xserve line hop aboard Intel until late 2006. By then Intel will be close to shipping their desktop processors based on the more efficient pentium m core or something very close. I'd gladly give up any small advantages that AMD may have for a processor that uses less wattage.
http://hmurchison.blogspot.com/ highly opinionated ramblings free of charge :)
     
otheronenorehto  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
Jun 8, 2005, 08:00 AM
 
Does anyone have any recomendations for setting up 0 + 1 raid with a G5 what is the least expensive way to do this? What is the highest performance for your dollar? Right now I am looking at a pretty expensive option If I can swing it...

G5 with 2 400GB drives in raid 0
Fiber channel card connected to a Xtrovert with 2 more 400 gb drives in raid 0

Can this setup be raid 0 + 1?
Or would I have to do something like this?

G5 with 160GB drive (boot)
Fiber channel to an Xtrovert with 4 400 gb drives in 0 + 1

If I can have 2 internal and two external drives in raid 0 + 1 is there a cheaper casing/ controler than the Xtrovert that I can use?
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Jun 8, 2005, 08:09 AM
 
If you need lots of storage, the XRaid is not a bad deal. Oracle uses it in-house, and depending on your needs, you can do all kinds of RAID levels (mirrored RAID5, etc.).

So: 1 How much storage do you need? and 2 What's your budget?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
otheronenorehto  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
Jun 8, 2005, 08:48 AM
 
I would like around .5 - .75 Terabytes mirrored (1-1.5 terabytes total). My budget is <$2000 (at the most) which would be the cost of 4 400GB drives + a fiber channel card + a Xtrovert. I would like it to be cheaper. If possible and I wouldn't mind going for either 4 250GB drives.

Mainly I would like to cut costs by getting something other than the Xtrovert. The Xtrovert has 8 slots for HD though and I probably wont need that many for a while. I am trying to get an idea of what other optioins I have, maybe a 2-4 HD box/controller that is mac compatible... (I don't want to sacrafice too much preformance but it could be a possibility to use a PCI-X Sata card instead of fiber...)

I am using this for video editing and both speed and data preservation are important, which is why I am interested in RAID 0 + 1 or possibly 5.
( Last edited by otheronenorehto; Jun 8, 2005 at 09:19 AM. )
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Jun 8, 2005, 10:46 AM
 
Maybe a Lacie Biggest Disk by Lacie would do the trick, although it uses FireWire 800 (and hence it is slower). Its capacity tops out at 2 TB.

http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10595
http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10462
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
otheronenorehto  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
Jun 8, 2005, 12:04 PM
 
Hmm I looked into that and I am really looking for faster interface. SATA card or above.

My real questions are these:

Is anyone using a non apple raid devide on thier G5? What raid devices are g5 compatible?

Is there any generic or mini RAID boxes that I could use instead of Xtrovert?

Is Fiber channel the only option or are there apple compatible SATA PCI-X Cards that would do the trick?
     
otheronenorehto  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
Jun 8, 2005, 12:07 PM
 
From what I have been able to read firewire 800 has really good read speads compared to SATA but it falls way behind in Write Speeds.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Jun 8, 2005, 12:45 PM
 
Yes, true, but a `real' RAID is not cheap. Promise has some external SCSI-ATA solutionswhich you might find interesting ($1350 + drives + SCSI card).
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
otheronenorehto  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
Jun 8, 2005, 10:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
Yes, true, but a `real' RAID is not cheap. Promise has some external SCSI-ATA solutionswhich you might find interesting ($1350 + drives + SCSI card).

Ugh I just realized that if i bought the Xtro vert I probably will have to buy ADM from apple right? Does anyone know if you have to have the apple ADM or can i just buy a apple compatible SATA HD and pop it in. I can imagine apple making the interface so you have to buy thier HD...
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Jun 9, 2005, 06:34 AM
 
What product exactly are you talking about? The only Xtro Vert I know of is a stand for an XRaid, so don't have to mount it on a rack … you need an XRaid for that.

With all disk enclosures I know of, be it servers (by a major manufacturer) or external disk arrays (e. g. an XRaid), you have to buy the disk modules from the manufacturer. The thing is that if you order -- say -- an XRaid with only 7 drives, you'll get 7 disk modules and 7 dummy modules. You can exchange the drives if you have a disk module, but those are (usually) not sold separately.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
otheronenorehto  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
Jun 9, 2005, 10:49 AM
 
[QUOTE=OreoCookie]What product exactly are you talking about? The only Xtro Vert I know of is a stand for an XRaid, so don't have to mount it on a rack … you need an XRaid for that.
QUOTE]

I realized this shortly after I posted last night. Sorry for the cofusion. What I am looking at now is 8x SATA PCI-X card from sonnet I will probbably connect 4-8 Maxtor(because of the 16mb cache) 300gb drive to this interface and house them in an 8 bay enclosure from macguru called "big burly" ( I think). With 10 disks total (including the two connections in the g5 I should be able to get around 250mb/s write speads and higher read speads.

That should be enough for uncompressed 10 bit high deffinition video.

Now where did I put that $80,000 for an HDCAM deck???
     
majesticmac
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Sep 2004
Status: Offline
Dec 20, 2005, 10:15 AM
 
I am shopping enclosures for a sata2 raid set-up. I want to take 8 hitachi 250g with a Sonnet 8 external sata raid card. I have looked at the MacGurus Big Burly but I was wondering if anyone has success finding an enclosure from Newegg for cheaper. I could use 8 single, 4 double, two quad or one big 8 tower/rack.

I found this on Newegg

SUPERMICRO CSE-743T-650B Black Steel/Plastic 4U Rackmount Case 650W Redundant 3 External 5.25" Drive Bays - Retail
Model #: CSE-743T-650B
Item #: N82E16811152061

but I am confused because it has motherboards and other stuff. If each drive has it's own cable to the Sonnet card what is the point of some of these enclosures. It does not make sense to spend almost the same amount of money on the enclosure as the 8 drives?
     
mduell
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline
Dec 20, 2005, 04:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by majesticmac
I am shopping enclosures for a sata2 raid set-up. I want to take 8 hitachi 250g with a Sonnet 8 external sata raid card. I have looked at the MacGurus Big Burly but I was wondering if anyone has success finding an enclosure from Newegg for cheaper. I could use 8 single, 4 double, two quad or one big 8 tower/rack.

I found this on Newegg

SUPERMICRO CSE-743T-650B Black Steel/Plastic 4U Rackmount Case 650W Redundant 3 External 5.25" Drive Bays - Retail
Model #: CSE-743T-650B
Item #: N82E16811152061

but I am confused because it has motherboards and other stuff. If each drive has it's own cable to the Sonnet card what is the point of some of these enclosures. It does not make sense to spend almost the same amount of money on the enclosure as the 8 drives?
That Supermicro case is not what you want.

I have one of these single drive SATA-SATA enclosures that I really like. At $25 a piece buying 8 of them isn't terribly expensive, although having 8 power adapters might look a little silly. 2 drive models are pretty expensive (start at about $120) 4 drive models start at $190, which may be worth it to you to reduce the number of power adapters. Don't bother with the really expensive ($500-1500) 4 drive models, since you have enough SATA ports for all your drives.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Dec 21, 2005, 06:55 AM
 
Keep the discussion to one thread, please, no cross posting.

Closing … 
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:27 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,