[besson3c]

Hello Maxelson,

This is my first time on air. I'm sort of nervous here...


Some friends and I decided to go bother some local cows, and I thought it would be funny if I fed the cow some cheese (cheesy strings, to be exact). At first, I was afraid to try this, but after a few beers my friends helped me muster up the courage to do this.

Now, I'm sitting with a big bandage around my hand I have to apply each night after the cow bit my hand. According to my doctor, this cow had mad cow disease since my hand has become all puffy green colored. Also, I find myself involuntarily writing these horrible and terrifying notes on scrap pieces of paper about killing farmers and seeking revenge. My hand literally has a mind of its own now, and writes these things by itself. How do I make my hand stop?

About the only thing that seems to make my hand behave itself and feel less painful is when I eat more cheese. Should I continue to eat lots of cheese? Sometimes my hand becomes so painful that I just rub the cheese all over my hand. It feels good when I heat it up a little first, it lets the oils ooze into my open wounds. Is it healthy to be physically dependent on cheese this way?

I guess I'd like to share with all of the callers out there listening that I would strongly suggest that you do NOT feed a cow some cheese.

[boots]

Max, I'd like to address this to the last caller. I think his friends set him up with one of the oldest ranch-hand practical jokes in the book. What he fed the cheese to was a mostly dead cow. That is to say, it wasn't alive, but it wasn't dead either. What the caller is suffering from is pink-eye that he contracted from the mostly-dead cow. A little topical ointment should help him out. He should be careful because he is highly contagious.

[Demonhood]

Originally Posted by maxelson

Don't let them tell you your stilton is moldy!

it's also a good idea to never say this to a lady. no matter how true.
just close the fridge.







WHAT

to answer the OP - not really. bit bleak laddie

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by boots

Max, I'd like to address this to the last caller. I think his friends set him up with one of the oldest ranch-hand practical jokes in the book. What he fed the cheese to was a mostly dead cow. That is to say, it wasn't alive, but it wasn't dead either. What the caller is suffering from is pink-eye that he contracted from the mostly-dead cow. A little topical ointment should help him out. He should be careful because he is highly contagious.

How do you explain the awful things my hand writes?


DIE STUPID WHORE... YEAH, HERE'S SOME HAY FOR YOU... you wanna pail of water?? WELL GO FETCH YOU UGLY USELESS SACK OF ****? I'm taking your hay too.... what are you going to do about it?

[andi*pandi]

Doofy, cheese loves you even if you don't love cheese.

not to re-rail, but the last lines are funny to anyone who's ever listened to Nine Inch Nails or Jesus Christ Superstar.

what kind of cheese would jesus have liked?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

Doofy, cheese loves you even if you don't love cheese.

not to re-rail, but the last lines are funny to anyone who's ever listened to Nine Inch Nails or Jesus Christ Superstar.

what kind of cheese would jesus have liked?

Sometimes the path to self-actualization lies in knowing the right questions to ask. What kind of cheese would Jesus have liked indeed!

[ReggieX]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Sometimes the path to self-actualization lies in knowing the right questions to ask. What kind of cheese would Jesus have liked indeed!

Well, knowing the general climate and livestock options at the time, goat cheese is a shoe-in (though, lemme tellya, after finding a cheese sandwich at the bottom of my ski boot one morning, DO NOT PUT CHEESE IN YOUR SHOES); I'd be hard-pressed to know of any Judean cattle herders.


My own cheese tip: keep plastic-wrapped cheese in the confines of its package and break off bits with your thumbs, NOT cutting it, to prevent it from going moldy.

[Salty]

Bensson you seriously need some help. Nobody is trying to "foist" their beliefs on you. Someone simply submitted a poem as a post on a forum asking if anyone who felt like reading it could see the connection with Christmas. That is all.
Are your beliefs so shallow and weak that the mere mention of other faiths scares you to death? Frankly I went through high school as a Christian being picked on for it by even my close friends (several of which have since actually accepted Christ and are living their lives as Christians) and even received lower marks in some cases if my work mentioned God. That said, wouldn't trade it for the world, because constantly having my beliefs challenged made me have to be sure I was right. It's sad that you're scared to let your beliefs stand by themselves and see if they fall or not. Though I do imagine that with the system of beliefs you have chosen to promote, that is a scary thought since you're so horribly far from anything resembling the truth .

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Salty

Bensson you seriously need some help. Nobody is trying to "foist" their beliefs on you. Someone simply submitted a poem as a post on a forum asking if anyone who felt like reading it could see the connection with Christmas. That is all.
Are your beliefs so shallow and weak that the mere mention of other faiths scares you to death? Frankly I went through high school as a Christian being picked on for it by even my close friends (several of which have since actually accepted Christ and are living their lives as Christians) and even received lower marks in some cases if my work mentioned God. That said, wouldn't trade it for the world, because constantly having my beliefs challenged made me have to be sure I was right. It's sad that you're scared to let your beliefs stand by themselves and see if they fall or not. Though I do imagine that with the system of beliefs you have chosen to promote, that is a scary thought since you're so horribly far from anything resembling the truth .

Maybe some day you'll understand how you come across. It may not have been your intention to foist your beliefs on us with this poem, but you have a history of volunteering your religious beliefs, so you'll have to excuse my assumption.

Maybe some day you'll also understand how being a religious fanatic causes more harm than good. It's great that you have a strong faith. You would spread the gospel more effectively by being a living example rather than being outspoken about your beliefs whenever the opportunity arises.

Speaking of being a living example, trying (and failing) to put somebody else's beliefs under a microscope and telling me that I need help is not terribly nice, is it? I know it's not fair to expect Christians to be perfect, but I think that there is a natural burden put on you guys to be our shining light.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Knobs are what separates the men from the boys.

I'll say.

Hardly anyone puts decent knobs on their equipment though (despite the fact that they're popping up everywhere again, thankfully).

Which is why I have a hard time with your mention of Doepfer. Now that's cheap-feeling equipment.

[Salty]

You know what Bensson, the problem is you're simply far less tolerant than you tell everyone else to be.

Quite frankly my beliefs shouldn't be thrown in a closet. It's who I am more than any other aspect of my life, and I refuse to try and censor my life and be someone I'm not on here or anywhere else simply because people like you feel threatened by what I am.
As for being outspoken about that aspect of my life? So what. At least I am for the most part not dictating what is acceptable and unacceptable for you or anyone else to believe. I'm clear on what I feel is right but I demand no behaviour of you good or bad. However you seem to feel a need to tell everyone that they need to behave in line with your poorly thought out and intolerant ideals.

So forgive me if I ignore most of your rules and regulations. My life is about grace not about man made rules.

[iLikebeer]

I think at this point it's fair to say that cheese has done more to unite the people of this world than any other single force in the history of mankind, including poetry or religion. Maybe you 2 could break bread and a share a hunk of cheese and we could get back to the topics at hand.
Cheese
Chaps
Audio Synths? with knobs?

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by maxelson

Swiss on the Reuben is most definitely the correct way to go.

Thanks for calling in!

Cool, that was dinner tonight. (sans sauerkraut for me, blasphemy, I know..)

I made a killer dry rub couple nights ago, tested on salmon and chicken.

[iLikebeer]

Originally Posted by AKcrab

Cool, that was dinner tonight. (sans sauerkraut for me, blasphemy, I know..)

I made a killer dry rub couple nights ago, tested on salmon and chicken.

Sounds delicious!
Have you ever tried heated sauerkraut? I didn't care for sauerkraut until I had it fresh from the pan.
What did you use for the rub? A friend of mine gave me a copy of "The Barbeque! Bible". It has some amazing recipes inside.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Let's cut to the chase... Why are you trying to foist your beliefs upon us?

Paranoia sucks.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogika

The last line is akin to waxing lyrical romantic to another person and ending the presentation by flopping a dead cow's heart on the table in front of him.

It's marvellously blunt in a way that I found very pleasing.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

I think at this point it's fair to say that cheese has done more to unite the people of this world than any other single force in the history of mankind, including poetry or religion.

Especially Cheeses K. Reist

[subego]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Especially Cheeses K. Reist

Also known as Cheese-Its of Nazareth

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by subego

Also known as Cheese-Its of Nazareth

Now that was funny.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by analogika
The last line is akin to waxing lyrical romantic to another person and ending the presentation by flopping a dead cow's heart on the table in front of him.

Now THAT's funny.

[maxelson]

If I may:
If one puts a work into a forum and asks for critique, the craftsman should not then be riled by the responses- regardless of the perceived motive or derivation of those responses.
Opinions were asked for. Opinions were gotten. Folks decided to slam those opinions. Poor showing. One learns to write, act, sing, compose, play, draw, paint etc. by doing. One learns to do it better by being receptive to the critique of the audience. If one refuses to do that, well, I'd have to say that that person is what I'd call "a bad artist".
If you write for yourself, write for yourself.
If you write for an audience, best to expect that the "great beast with 200 eyes and 2000 teeth" will, in fact, have something to say.
If you wish to be successful for your audience, you listen, learn, apply and adapt.
Art cannot take place in a vacuum.
An artist may not expect acceptance of a work merely because he is enthusiastic or passionate about the subject.


As for the poem.
Poetry is an art form. Art is the successful melding of form and function with the ultimate aim of evoking an emotional response within the audience (as opposed to the artist- the artist's emotional response is irrelevant once it is given to the audience. Once it is displayed, the art no longer belongs to the artist). Good art (yes, it certainly IS quantifiable) will allow the audience to glean what import or message it will without the imposition of "intention" on the part of the artist. Let's go from there.
Oscar Wilde said "All bad poetry is sincere". Sincerity is certainly present. Structure, imagery, proper use of metaphor and skillful manipulation of language are not. What is lacking here is form. Without form, the function is irrelevant because it cannot be communicated properly.
Lets take the first "stanza". In it, you use the word "cold" four times. Within the context of most types of writing, if you are going to repeat a term so many times in such a brief passage right at the top of a poem, I, as the reader, must be allowed to believe that this word was meant for emphasis and can expect that it will be of thematic importance throughout the work. We then see the word used only once and that within the exact same context as we see within the first passage. THis seems to be redundancy for the sake of redundancy. As a reader, I would then move to the next possible reason for the repeated usage of the term- that the author will set up an opposing image in the second half of the work. This is not the case.
In looking further into the use of the term "cold", I could also reasonably expect that you'll use it in direct opposition to the warmth of the event about to take place- the birth of a messiah. Again, not the case. There is no obvious or implied linkage in image or structure
Structurally, the poem seems to be one molded out of stream of consciousness and crafted of what one supposes to be poetry.

I'd have to submit that there is substantially more to crafting poetry than simply putting words down on a page in what looks to be a poetic format.


I think the last thing it feels is Christmassy. The encompassing message of Christmas, imposed upon it by 1000 years of tradition, is one of hope, life and peace. This poem offers none of these. Since the topic is so well known, the imagery ingrained in the human psyche, we may expect that there will be a reason this poem shifts so drastically to the opposite pole, but there seems to be no reason. It seems to merely drift that way. Here, the theme seems to be one of imposing guilt. Instead of seeing hope at the end, we see condemnation- and, while this would certainly make an interesting twist on the thoughts and emotions we attach to Christmas, there is no lead up to the shift. It takes place without warning or drama- no sense of irony. The reader is simply cast into a dark pit of guilt by complicity.

I got more if you want it.

Now. Can we get back to cheese.

[maxelson]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Analogika's assessment was legit. Why the derision? Or have I misplaced this and you were agreeing with it?

[Kevin]

[maxelson]

You're agreeing with it. Or are you thinking. Sorry. The emoticon language is confusing to me. I prefer words.

[Kevin]

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Didn't your parents tell you to shut the hell up when grown-ups were talking?

There was a damn good reason I didn't answer your petulant nagging, you puerile git.

Salty asked why I found his ending humorous. I told him exactly why.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogika

Didn't your parents tell you to shut the hell up when grown-ups were talking?

analogika, you know everytime you post something this silly and pretentious, Osama kills a kitten?

Help save the kittens.

[maxelson]

Originally Posted by Kevin

OK, this I understand and quite obviously support.

But it still fails to answer the question.

[subego]

Originally Posted by maxelson

Now. Can we get back to cheese.

Limburger.

Why Max? Why?

[Kevin]

[maxelson]

Well, someone's gotta like it. I have to leave it at that or my thought process is going to go hell bent for existentialism.

[maxelson]

C'mon, Kevin. I'm asking a legit question. Not even rudely.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by maxelson

C'mon, Kevin. I'm asking a legit question. Not even rudely.

It just means I have other ideas.

[maxelson]

Not sure I understand. Elaborate, if you will.

[boots]

Squirrels, max. Squirrels.

[maxelson]

Right. I'm out. Later.

[maxelson]

Serious hiccoughing going on here. First I see 5 duplicates, then two, then three, back to two. WHOA.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Kevin

analogika, you know everytime you post something this silly and pretentious, Osama kills a kitten?

Help save the kittens.

Allow me to respond Zimpy-style:



Again, I wasn't talking to you, busybody.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Salty

Quite frankly my beliefs shouldn't be thrown in a closet. It's who I am more than any other aspect of my life, and I refuse to try and censor my life and be someone I'm not on here or anywhere else simply because people like you feel threatened by what I am.

The word "closet" in that there post is a marvellous tell-tale turn of phrase (and don't bother trying to tell us that it was deliberate).

This is exactly what people have been telling you for ages.

You just need to apply it, Baby.

[dav]

i propose we set up an arbitrary day for the birth of cheese, so i can wish everyone a merry cheesemas.

[analogika]

Seconded.

[dcmacdaddy]

Is there a patron saint for cheese? (Besides Max, of course. But he's not dead yet.)

After all, Catholics celebrate a Feast Day for their patron saints.
What could be more appropriate than a feast day for the patron saint of cheese?

[andi*pandi]

Let's hear it for St. Lactose of the Curd! Hereby proclaim his feast day to be December 14.

[Salty]

For those complaining about no hope at the end of the poem. That's actually an edited version of the final product. The final ending looks something like this:

We took this man,
We took our God.
And we nailed Him to a tree.

...
...
...

The wind blew cold that life,
It had been blowing cold so long.
The the sun’s face ignored, and the wind blew cold.
That night was just one night in a human’s blizzard.
It had been going on so long.
Cold, frozen, numb person, falling, and falling, and falling.
Alone in the street,
Alone so long.

The wind blew warm in an instant.
As a fire flickered deep in the heart of one soul.
It burned as the sun ever so slightly touched one heart.
And in that moment.
And in that instant, Faith arrived.
Hope was born,
As Love came in.

In that, the coldest of lives,
The sun smiled down on one of a generation.
One who would mock, ignore, and mutiny.
In that, the coldest of lives,
A little boy was met by a Father,
Who would teach him to shepherd.
In that, the coldest of lives,
A young man would submit to his creator.
In that, the coldest of lives,
Frail hands would grasp for a Brother’s hand.
Hands that on the darkest of days had spilled red hope...

I took this man,
I took our God.
And I nailed Him to a tree.

And then I took... this pardon, he offered...

A poets words die far short.

So yah, that was actually the final ending of the poem, but because it swung to a personal aspect I decided that I probably shouldn't include it in any sort of public reading. As to why I posted the poem, I'm debating tonight using the poem in the prayer meeting I'm leading tonight at church. I wanted to have something to give to the members of the church that would help them get beyond the presents and family junk that has pushed it's way in front of what Christmas actually was about, IE God becoming man.

That said I have taken the critizim of the forum and an trying to figure out a good way to end the poem. Perhaps something along the lines of:

We took this man,
We took our God,
and nailed Him to a tree.

And in that, our darkest of days.
The sun rose again,
As those words came, "Take up your mat, your sins are forgiven."

[BlueSky]

It just sounds like Passover/Easter rather than Christmas to me. Maybe leave out the guilt thing and end it on "woo hoo, he's born and joy and hope and love etc."

[Salty]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

It just sounds like Passover/Easter rather than Christmas to me. Maybe leave out the guilt thing and end it on "woo hoo, he's born and joy and hope and love etc."

So in other words continue to promote the unbalanced understanding that people already have. The significance of Christmas is not simply that God was born as a human, the significance is that He was born as a human so that He could empathize with us in our condition, and so that He could die for our sins. And the ownership of one's own sins is a very necessary aspect of Christianity.

[andi*pandi]

christmas is a celebration, doofus. you want to talk death and sins, come back at Easter.

[maxelson]

If the significance is as you say it is, well, then, you need to point that out because your idea is not the perception most folk hold. You're not pointing that out. What you say above is not a part of your piece.

Seems to me, Salty, you did not want a critique after all. If you did, you'd respond in kind. Is it true, then, what folk are applying to this? That you have your ulterior reasons for posting this? If it is, have to courage of your conviction and point that out. You put it here and expect to be pinioned. Is it your wish for this to happen so that you and others may respond in a certain way?

Please let me know if this is true. I won't waste my critique if it isn't wanted.

[boots]

Originally Posted by Salty

So in other words continue to promote the unbalanced understanding that people already have. The significance of Christmas is not simply that God was born as a human, the significance is that He was born as a human so that He could empathize with us in our condition, and so that He could die for our sins. And the ownership of one's own sins is a very necessary aspect of Christianity.

That's certainly one popular interpretation. Don't get too caught up in the blood theology. Be thankful, and live with lots of grace.

Another interpretation is that "blood sacrifice" really had nothing to do with it. a) it doesn't fit the pattern. God didn't kill him, we did - so god wasn't making any promise to us. (See God's covenant with Abraham for an example.) And we didn't do it because we were sealing a covenant. There was no formal understanding of "terms" of the new covenant. b) how do you explain this, the ultimate act of child abuse, to those who live in or have just emerged from abusive situations? There is hardly any hope in hearing that even God abuses his kids. c) Jesus rose in spite of what we did to him. That's how much God loves us.

I don't expect you to change your views. I just ask that you think about why the interpretation of events might need to be reconsidered. Yes, God may have know what was coming...and allowed it to happen (so he did "give his only begotten son). Perhaps, though, he wasn't all happy about it. But he gave us new hope anyway.

[RAILhead]

Toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Fffrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkiiiiinnnnnn ngggggg
Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong