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Shaddim · Dec 14, 2005, 06:25 PM

Oh brother.

People are saying it to be FESTIVE, DAMMIT!!! Take it the way it's intended!! It has nothing to do with being insensitive to moronic stereotypes.

ARGHngtklEWOJCAW$T*NR@)OPU#@ROPAWYU#R OACW#RYU OUAC#QOP UC@QRY%#.... *makes choking sound and logs off for the day*

Uncle Skeleton · Dec 14, 2005, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Well, the "N" word is derogatory and offensive. "Merry Christmas" is neither

In this thread, it was starting to be. Actually, it was right from the first post.

What is the point in being offended that someone is enjoying their holiday and attempting to share it with you? Are you offended that they are trying to convert you? Are you offended that they are being ethnocentric? Is it sour grapes that Christians outnumber Jews? Is it an underlying hatred of Christians, caused by the ridiculous Religious Right? I'm not mocking you - I'm seriously curious because if someone wanted to share the joy of their holiday with me, I wouldn't be offended - I would be grateful.

Mostly conversion, and not at all sour grapes,* but besides that it's a fair assessment. It's like when beggars say "God Bless." It bugs me, but it doesn't matter, because there aren't all that many of them saying it to me. If everyone I saw suddenly started saying God Bless to me, I'd start telling them "go to hell."

Actually, another thing about it that bothers me is that it exemplifies the impersonal, intrusive, dishonest way that strangers talk to you. They don't care if you have a merry christmas, they just want you to know that they're intending to have one. The fact that their comment excludes you and they don't care proves it. That's why I'm not bothered by the people that say it out of habit, only by the people (like those that are vocal in this thread) that say it out of spite against PCness. This is going to lead into what Kevin said below...

*Jews don't try to convert anyone. We're perfectly happy being the chosen people and letting everyone else do whatever they want.

Uncle Skeleton · Dec 14, 2005, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by typoon

Why would you get offended? It's the Christmas Season.

That's the problem. For you it's the Christmas Season. For me it's December, but with more traffic. You're trying to include me in your religion against my will. I resent it.

Right there you are offending an "African American" by calling them a black person. You're using offensive languange by not using the politically correct term. On the revers of your statement if a Black person says something offensive to a white person there is no big deal out of it. Why the double standard?

I'll tell you why the double standard, minorities generally don't oppress majorities (and when they do, the double standard is mysteriously absent). As a member of the majority, you're obliged to be tolerant. You don't have to be, you're free to be as bigoted as you want, but then you have to face the consequences of being a bigot.

The black people I know use "black." If any of them (or you) asked me to use "african american" I would start doing it, out of respect for them. When part of the community asks you to stop using a certain term around them and you refuse, you're disrespecting them. If you're comfortable doing that, you're a bigot.

Uncle Skeleton · Dec 14, 2005, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Some people are being offended simply because they are told to be so.

Actually, I am. I'm reasonably fine with "merry christmas" being a tradition, and when people use it who don't know better, I just tell them I'm Jewish and make them embarassed (or not, whatever). I never would have been in the croud to start "happy holidays" in the first place. The thing that bothers me is when people know that by saying "merry christmas" they are disrespecting a part of their community who has already asked them not to. Language is arbitrary. Intent is not.

porieux · Dec 14, 2005, 06:51 PM

Christmas is secular. I will keep saying it. Christmas trees, santa claus, presents, none of these things are religious in this society. People on both sides of this argument need to get over themselves.

wallinbl · Dec 14, 2005, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by porieux

Christmas is secular. I will keep saying it. Christmas trees, santa claus, presents, none of these things are religious in this society. People on both sides of this argument need to get over themselves.

They are secular aspects to a religious holiday. Many of them have roots in pagan celebrations, which has to do with the history of the church and the decision to celebrate Christmas around the same time as a pagan holiday in order to be less conspicuous. You may choose to celebrate this religious holiday in a secular manner, but that doesn't change the fact that it really is a religious holiday.

If everyone in the world decided to go ice skating all eight nights of Hannukah, that wouldn't make it a secular ice skating holiday.

wallinbl · Dec 14, 2005, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

Mostly conversion, and not at all sour grapes,* but besides that it's a fair assessment. It's like when beggars say "God Bless." It bugs me, but it doesn't matter, because there aren't all that many of them saying it to me. If everyone I saw suddenly started saying God Bless to me, I'd start telling them "go to hell."

Actually, another thing about it that bothers me is that it exemplifies the impersonal, intrusive, dishonest way that strangers talk to you. They don't care if you have a merry christmas, they just want you to know that they're intending to have one. The fact that their comment excludes you and they don't care proves it. That's why I'm not bothered by the people that say it out of habit, only by the people (like those that are vocal in this thread) that say it out of spite against PCness.

It sounds like you don't actually like people. I tend to be this way, but I've been trying to make an effort to assume that people are actually nice.

waxcrash · Dec 14, 2005, 09:07 PM

"Every time you say Happy Holidays, an angel gets AIDS." — Jon Stewert, The Daily Show

JoshuaZ · Dec 14, 2005, 09:33 PM

I say Merry Christmas to my kids in class. Thank goodness no one here actually knows anythign about christmas besides giving gifts and big red hats.

Railroader · Dec 15, 2005, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

ARGHngtklEWOJCAW$T*NR@)OPU#@ROPAWYU#R OACW#RYU OUAC#QOP UC@QRY%#.... *makes choking sound and logs off for the day*

You. Are. A. Genius!!!

Uncle Skeleton · Dec 15, 2005, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

It sounds like you don't actually like people. I tend to be this way, but I've been trying to make an effort to assume that people are actually nice.

Jeez, you sure you were judgemental enough in that post? Want to rag on my posture a little bit too?

typoon · Dec 15, 2005, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

That's the problem. For you it's the Christmas Season. For me it's December, but with more traffic. You're trying to include me in your religion against my will. I resent it.

Firstly like I said it's not My religion. I don't practice any religion but I DO celebrate christmas. I don't get offended when people wish me a Merry Christmas. It's part of the season. Would I be offended if you wished me a Hapy CHanukkah during that time? No. I guess we look at it differently.

I'll tell you why the double standard, minorities generally don't oppress majorities (and when they do, the double standard is mysteriously absent). As a member of the majority, you're obliged to be tolerant. You don't have to be, you're free to be as bigoted as you want, but then you have to face the consequences of being a bigot.

The black people I know use "black." If any of them (or you) asked me to use "african american" I would start doing it, out of respect for them. When part of the community asks you to stop using a certain term around them and you refuse, you're disrespecting them. If you're comfortable doing that, you're a bigot.

Firstly, I'm not in the Majority. Most Chinese are still considered in the minority in the US. I believe according to the numbers soon Whites will be in the minority in the US. But they sitll act like the majority.

Do I get offended if someone thinks I'm korean or Japanese? Do I get offended if they call me an "Oriental" or "Asian American?" No why should I? You are right Most of the general black population use "black" It's only whites and those who want to be "tolerant" and not "offend" that use the term African American when most black people you talk to don't consider themselves "African American." I've spoken to many black people who get offended by the the term African American. Those who come from Say Jamaica or other countries consider them from that country not from Africa.

Kevin · Dec 15, 2005, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

Actually, I am. I'm reasonably fine with "merry christmas" being a tradition, and when people use it who don't know better, I just tell them I'm Jewish and make them embarassed (or not, whatever). I never would have been in the croud to start "happy holidays" in the first place. The thing that bothers me is when people know that by saying "merry christmas" they are disrespecting a part of their community who has already asked them not to. Language is arbitrary. Intent is not.

It still equals out to a bunch of women with their panties in a knot.

Uncle Skeleton · Dec 15, 2005, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by typoon

Firstly like I said it's not My religion. I don't practice any religion but I DO celebrate christmas.

Christmas is about Christ. You're imposing it on me. Doesn't matter if you're not christian.

I don't get offended when people wish me a Merry Christmas or call me Oriental.

Fantastic. Hey, do you ever think about anyone but yourself? read this. Out of curiosity, are you saying that no Asians are ever offended by being called Oriental, or that they shouldn't be because you're not? What about "Chinaman?"

Firstly, I'm not in the Majority. Most Chinese...

Christians = majority
Jews (or anyone who feels oppressed by Christ overload) = minority

You think if you're in one minority category you can get away with anything? Hey, I'm Jewish, now I can call gays fags!

Uncle Skeleton · Dec 15, 2005, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

It still equals out to a bunch of women with their panties in a knot.

What do you call it when someone gets pissy just because a clerk says "happy holidays" to them instead of "merry christmas?'

PS. You're an intolerant asshole.

nredman · Dec 15, 2005, 08:57 PM

the thread is ripe for lockdown®

turtle777 · Dec 16, 2005, 11:20 AM

Seconded.

-t

Kevin · Dec 16, 2005, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

What do you call it when someone gets pissy just because a clerk says "happy holidays" to them instead of "merry christmas?'

No one is getting pissed about that so much as people are sick of whiney ass women like you.

Originally Posted by turtle777

Seconded.

Thirdinated

maxelson · Dec 16, 2005, 11:56 AM

Oooo! Looky! Time for my annual "I'm offended its Christmas" thread participation!

Lets see if we can't take a different tack this time.

Dear Supreme Being.
Protect me from your followers.

You know what's offensive? That people ACTUALLY waste time on this absurd argument.
Jeez. In this world, THIS is what you pick as something to get offended about?

Why don't y'all just step back from the keyboard. THink about all the **** that is going on in the world right now and then ask an honest question: in light of what I see in this world, is it really worth it?

Happy December, everyone.

MAN, does this planet need an enema.

Fyre4ce · Dec 16, 2005, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

I'm sick of working for a company that embraces mindless following so much

Agreed with the previous poster: if you don't like mindless following, why are you a Christian??

maxelson · Dec 16, 2005, 01:26 PM

Ah, jeez. Now that we've posted in the same thread, we're going to get lumped together.

turtle777 · Dec 16, 2005, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by maxelson

MAN, does this planet need an enema.

Oh, here you go:

Oh, no, wait, I though you said anemone... Oooopps.

-t

boots · Dec 16, 2005, 01:34 PM

and a penis shaped anemone at that. Kinda suits this thread, though.

turtle777 · Dec 16, 2005, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by boots

and a penis shaped anemone at that. Kinda suits this thread, though.

Will surely help the lockination process

-t

besson3c · Dec 16, 2005, 01:40 PM

That thing looks like a penis!

turtle777 · Dec 16, 2005, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

That thing looks like a penis!

-t

Shaddim · Dec 16, 2005, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

You. Are. A. Genius!!!

I reached my saturation point.

maxelson · Dec 16, 2005, 01:56 PM

Perhaps we should proliferate the love this thread needed to be about.
I encourage everyone to wish EVERYONE well this holiday season in whatever manner you celebrate. Whatever language. Whatever religion. Or non religion.
Lets all try to remember: this is NOW a thread about good will toward your fellow man. If you think you may be offended by those offering good will from their own POV, well, perhaps you'd best do as Howard Stern asks: turn it off and go find offense elsewhere.
OK, ok. I'll go first.

Swedish: God Jul!

besson3c · Dec 16, 2005, 02:01 PM

I love everybody here! I wish all of you nothing but happiness.... even the weirdos!

Demonhood · Dec 16, 2005, 02:13 PM

~~merry locksmas!~~