[real]

Hello everyone,

Are there any Chefs on this board that could recommend a chefs knife. I would like to pick one up for my wife.

Any thoughts would be great, Brands to stay away from or things too look for.


thanks for the time

mb

[design219]

My wife is a serious cook, and right after we got married, she bought Henckel 4 Star knives.

They have held up very well (about 12 years now), and seem like really good tools to me.

[Oisín]

In before seven-page Mastrap post.™

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by design219 

My wife is a serious cook, and right after we got married, she bought Henckel 4 Star knives.

I have two knives from the same line for close to 10 years now, they work flawlessly. I almost cut my finger off last weekend, though (it cut cleanly through my fingernail and nicked my fingertip)

Go for the medium-sized chef knife, the small one is too, well, small.

[scaught]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

In before seven-page Mastrap post.™

I bet he could nail it in 3 sentences and a link. SUMMON THE CANADIAN GIANT

[Brien]

I have a Henckels too (twin S), nice, sharp, holds up pretty well. But do whatever Mastrap says. (Which may include buying a chinese cleaver!)

[ThinkInsane]

I'm not a chef, but I am a fairly accomplished amateur. If you aren't looking to break the bank on knife, these Victorinox knives are very nice for the price. I got a set as a gift a couple of years ago and use them daily. I also have a few Kyocera ceramic knives that hold a remarkable edge. I'd highly recommend them.

[alia]

To test for a really good knife, balance it on your finger, the metal should weigh the same as the hilt, meaning the metal goes along the handle.
Always get a steel to sharpen your knife.
wash knives in warm soapy water, oil lightly to avoid rusting or damage. Never put in dishwasher.
Normally the more expensive, the better, but worth paying for as you will have a good tool for years.

[sknapp351]

I'm going to echo the notion that you get what you pay for with knives. Investing in a god chef's knife will get you a tool that you will use for years. I use the Henkels Pro S, and they are fantastic. I am wanting a Shun though, but it is more of a specialty. It is the sharpest knife I have ever touched. I also want to second getting a steel. Maintaining your knives is essential.
I know that gift certificates are not nearly as romantic as handing someone the gift, so try to be open if she wants to exchange it. Knives are a thoughtful and great gift, but they are also subjective. What feels "right" to one person might not be for another. I don't care what the quality of a knife is, if it doesn't feel god in my hand I wont deal with it.
Good hunting.
SAm

I too like the Henckels. The Henckels lines with the two guys in the logo are the good lines. The Henckels with just one guy in the logo are their "economy" brand - they're not as good as the their good lines.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

I also have a few Kyocera ceramic knives that hold a remarkable edge. I'd highly recommend them.

I find these interesting but:

1) Have you chipped one yet?
2) How do you sharpen them?
3) What are some good ballpark prices for some of them? More or less than Henckels steel knives?

EDIT:

Mastrap,

Where do you recommend shopping for this stuff in Toronto? I'm thinking of buying one as an Xmas present.

[IceEnclosure]

I'm going to echo the notion that we should wait to see what Mas says. Maybe he'll tell us the last thing he cut with his knives, making us all jealous. Maybe a picture of the chopped up thing in his awesome kitchen too.

[brassplayersrock²]

he has been summoned.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I second Shun.

greg

[iMOTOR]

I thought it was bad luck to give a knife as a gift.

/superstition

[design219]

Originally Posted by iMOTOR 

I thought it was bad luck to give a knife as a gift.

/superstition

A guy gave me a nice folding knife as a wedding gift, but he said I had to give him a dime to avoid bad luck.

[Eug]

Luckily I ain't supersititious.

[iMOTOR]

My uncle’s neighbor gave his wife a chainsaw for Christmas, so I guess anything goes these days.

[design219]

Damn nice gift.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by iMOTOR 

My uncle’s neighbor gave his wife a chainsaw for Christmas, so I guess anything goes these days.

Hmmm... Does she actually use it?

Around here, that'd be like giving himself the chainsaw because most families around here still follow the tradition (?) of having only the man-of-the-house operating the chainsaw.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure 

Maybe a picture of the chopped up thing in his awesome kitchen too.

[0157988944]

"cheves"

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Hmmm... Does she actually use it?

Apparently she does, after about an hour of trying to get it started, she came to ask my uncle for help.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

"cheves"

Hmm... I don't know what this means, so I looked it up on Google.

An image search brings up Spanish beer and Spanish boobies.

[0157988944]

leaf : leaves :: chef : cheves

It's just how I think at this time of day.

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by Eug 

An image search brings up Spanish beer and Spanish boobies.

So this image would be dos cheves?

[badidea]

I bought those Solicut knives for christmas last year and they're the best damn knives I ever used!!!

[KeyLimePi]

Ditto on the Shun. Excellent quality at a reasonable price. But I'd skip the steel (which really doesn't sharpen a knife, but just hones it). If you don't know what you're doing with it, you can ruin a good knife.

[OreoCookie]

That actually depends on the hardness of the edge: if the steel is harder than the sharpening steel, you will not sharpen the knife. This is the case with many Japanese(-style) knives. I haven't had any problems sharpening my knives with a standard sharpening steel. Do not get these `pull through' sharpeners. Different blades have different edge angles while these simple sharpeners have only one angle, no matter the blade. (My mom almost ruined a very nice Japanese kitchen knife I've given her for her birthday. A professional `sharpener' who sharpens all the tools in her hospital was able to fix it, though.)

[Phileas]

Hi guys. Mas has retired from macnn, so I am posting this for him.

0. Read this: http://groceryguy.blogspot.com/2008/...ers-knife.html
Tells you all you need to know. Then:

1. Don't buy knives for another person. Knives are highly personal tools, and what feels right for you can be totally wrong for the other guy, or girl in this case.

2. Restaurant cooks use cheap knives, then keep them sharp. Many restaurant supply stores will sell second hand knives that have been through a work cycle. Take a look at them. Plastic handles, no frills. I don't suggest buying one of these for your wife, but it will put an end to the myth that knives need to be expensive.

3. A cheap knife that is being properly looked after will always, and without exception, outperform an expensive knife that isn't.

4. The great stainless vs. carbon steel debate. I prefer carbon steel, but again, a properly sharpened stainless knife will also do it's duties. Don't buy ceramic, it's a gimmick.

My personal collection:

Slicing vegetables: I use a CCK Number 2 cleaver. Carbon steel, thin blade, handmade in Hong Kong. CCK knives are the best that Chinese knife makers have to offer, they are fantastically sharp. A CCK wll make everything presented to it feel like it's made of soft butter. About $45.00 and up.
Eug, the Tap Phong Trading Company on Spadina sells these. You need to ask for them, they keep them behind the counter.

(Not my knife, this is just from a google search - we're talking about the knife on top.)

Chef's knife: I use a carbon steel copy of an old French design. I bought it at the Lea Valley hardware store for $25.00. Properly looked after it works like a charm.


For more delicate work I use the French housewife's favourite, simple Opinel folding knives.


So, go for comfort over brand name. Don't buy in a kitchen store, go to a restaurant supplier and listen to what they have to say. Keep your knives sharp by honing them before every use, then get them professionally sharpened once a year.

Do not skimp on a honing steel - they realign the edge of the knife that becomes bent after use. Honing frequently is the single most important thing you can do to keep your knife sharp. Understand that honing ≠ sharpening, it simply keeps the the edge for longer.

It is almost impossible to ruin a knife through honing, you'd have to hammer the blade against the steel to cause damage. Ask for a quick lesson when buying the knife, anybody can learn how it's done in two minutes. There are also numerous videos online.

[MarkLT1]

Two thoughts-

1) As mentioned- go out and try some knives out. If you have a "Sur La Table" near you, they usually have a great selection of knives- both German (Henckel and Wuschtoff) and Japanese (Shun, Kyocera Ceramics, etc..). The store I went to in NYC even allowed me to chop through some carrots to get a feel for the different style knives. Comfort is KEY when it comes to a knife.

2) That being said, I have several knives- mostly Henckel's and a Shun). I use 3 particular tools about 95% of the time:



Originally I only had the Henckel 7" Santoku as my primary knife. I wouldn't recommend this route- the Santoku is a great knife, and is very useful when rough chopping, slicing meat, and "quick" jobs, but it doesnt have a curved enough edge, so it is very difficult to rock the knife, as when doing fine chopping of herbs, etc..

I knew I wanted a Chef's knife, but I never found them terribly comfortable to use. I have largish hands, and most chef's were uncomfortable to hold properly and use for me. That was until I found the Shun Ken Onion style chef's knife. Its not a traditional shape, but I found that it is an incredibly comfortable knife. That being said, Shun's can be pricey! But for me, it was well worth the cost.

One thing- when you get a chef's knife, see if you can find someone to show you how to use it properly. I dont mean going to some long class that shows you knife skills- I mean simply being shown how to properly hold the knife (as most people who have not been trained at all, hold a chefs knife completely wrong). One big plus to the Ken Onion style is that the shape of the knife puts your hand in the proper position- it would be very uncomfortable to use if you held it wrong.

[brassplayersrock²]

no more Mas?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

no more Mas?

Mastrap was built with a 10,001 post fail safe kill switch. I suspect he was able to transfer his essence to Phileas or perhaps another account, before he shut down, however.

[brassplayersrock²]

aw, I see: http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...le/#post786624

Thanks Dakar

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Slicing vegetables: I use a CCK Number 2 cleaver. Carbon steel, thin blade, handmade in Hong Kong. CCK knives are the best that Chinese knife makers have to offer, they are fantastically sharp. A CCK wll make everything presented to it feel like it's made of soft butter. About $45.00 and up.
Eug, the Tap Phong Trading Company on Spadina sells these. You need to ask for them, they keep them behind the counter.

I was in Tap Phong today and they said they don't sell CCK. I asked several times and they reconfirmed that. But they pointed me to a bunch of others, including Global.

So, I bought a Global G49.



Bloody expensive. CAD$199 (~US$155), so the GF had better damn well like it. Well, even if she doesn't, it's OK cuz I'll just use it. It's stainless steel, not carbon steel.

Also bought a whetstone. I didn't know anything about the various grits, but the cute saleswoman there said that the 1200 should be fine enough. (We already have a relatively coarse one.) She also had a 4000 grit, but said it was probably overkill, even for a Global knife. Whaddya think?

I already have a honing steel, but I must admit I've rarely used it. That will change however.

[Ghoser777]

No mention of Cutco? I half kid - it's not for real Chef's. I did their gimmick selling thing for about 3 months back in '99... boy was that fun. Still have the demo knives I used while presenting, and they still work great.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I already have a honing steel, but I must admit I've rarely used it. That will change however.

I just honed all of our non-serrated big knives. Made a big difference, but several of them are chipped. It seems my GF has been honing weekly the knives she uses, but I something is amiss because I've never noticed them being that sharp until I honed them myself, and of course I mentioned the chips too.

For the Global I'm not sure I'm going to try sharpening it myself, but the 1200 grit waterstone I got should be useful for the other knives we have. Do I need to pick up a 240 as well? The 4000 grit waterstone was bloody expensive ($75), and the woman there recommended against it for now for the cheaper knives.

She said they had some combination stones but were sold out. I don't know she means they were around 240/1000 or around 1000/4000 though.

[turtle777]

You could go and ask in the Lifeboat - Maximillian's Galley forum.

-t

[moonmonkey]

I have a lot of knives but always reach for the Global GS-5 for vegetables or bigger G2 (picture bellow) for meat or pumkin etc.

[- - e r i k - -]

I was wondering about Global. I like their design, but due to their ubiquitousness I've questioned their value as professional tools.

I know this is argumentum ad indium*, but still…

* I just invented that expression.

[moonmonkey]

I have Henckel, Victorinox and one Ceramic chefs knife, none of these compare with the Globals.
I know they sometimes sell them in box sets which puts people off, but they are good.

I have a fantastic selection of knives but when I reach over to the magnetic strip my hand always goes for the GS-5.
The ceramic knive doesn't even stick to the strip, so it never stands a chance.

FYI I use a ceramic water filled sharpener (looks a bit like a Japanese sex toy) which suggests different number of strokes for different knife brands, Global knives are suggested to have 3 strokes, my other knives 5 to 7.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I was in Tap Phong today and they said they don't sell CCK.

Yes, they do. I bought one for a friend only three weeks ago. But you do need to know who to talk to.

The cute girl who works the check-out on the left (coming in) doesn't know her stuff. The old lady opposite does. I have no idea why they make such a big deal about the CCKs but this isn't the first time I've heard that story. If they don't know you, they pretend not to understand. They do sell CCKs, but they're kept under the counter. As I've said, I have no idea why - the only thing I can think of is that they push the Globals because they make more money selling them.

If you still want a CCK we can meet for lunch one day (my office is at Dundas and University) and I'll introduce you to the person I talk to at Tap Phong.

Sharpening with whetstones, if you know what you're doing, excellent. If you're learning please buy yourself a bunch of cheap knives (Nella Cucina on Bathurst sells second hand knives for next to nothing) and train with them. It's a real art and if you get it wrong it's also the easiest way to ruin a good knife.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I just honed all of our non-serrated big knives. Made a big difference, but several of them are chipped.

Thanks for the link. This is awesome. You never know what you'll learn here.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Yes, they do. I bought one for a friend only three weeks ago. But you do need to know who to talk to.

The cute girl who works the check-out on the left (coming in) doesn't know her stuff. The old lady opposite does. I have no idea why they make such a big deal about the CCKs but this isn't the first time I've heard that story. If they don't know you, they pretend not to understand. They do sell CCKs, but they're kept under the counter. As I've said, I have no idea why - the only thing I can think of is that they push the Globals because they make more money selling them.

Yeah, I wondered about that. I figured they either just stopped selling them a while back or else they were just pushing the expensive knives. Likely the latter. BTW, the cute girl (daughter of the older woman I think) was staffing the knife section but I didn't actually ask her about the knives, just the waterstones. I had been in earlier and asked two guys about CCK. One guy seemed like he honestly didn't know, but I wonder if he just didn't know they call them "CCK" and uses the Chinese name Chan Chi Kee. The second guy seemed more knowledgeable but I did wonder if he was holding something back.

If you still want a CCK we can meet for lunch one day (my office is at Dundas and University) and I'll introduce you to the person I talk to at Tap Phong.

Sharpening with whetstones, if you know what you're doing, excellent. If you're learning please buy yourself a bunch of cheap knives (Nella Cucina on Bathurst sells second hand knives for next to nothing) and train with them. It's a real art and if you get it wrong it's also the easiest way to ruin a good knife.

Hey thanks for the offer. I probably won't take you up on it right now, but I'll keep that in mind. Now that I've read more about CCK knives I probably wouldn't have bought one anyway as a gift. The carbon steel is as bare as the carbon steel wok we have, so it sounds like discoloration/rust is a major problem if you're not careful (and we often aren't). And it seems they don't have the fit and finish of the Japanese and German name brand knives. ie. I get the impression that they're great metal, but look like the industrial strength items they are, with little concern for aesthetics. The CCKs seem like an awesome bang for the buck, but the Globals are much more luxurious, even if they don't necessarily cut any better.

I'd consider buying them for myself for general usage, but not as a gift for my GF. I'd consider buying one for my mom though since she hates expensive gifts and is quite used to carbon steel.

As for sharpening, I think I'll 180 grit some of the cheap knives I already have, and then finish them off with the 1200 grit. I'll decide later if I need to use the 4000-6000 grit stuff.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I find these interesting but:

1) Have you chipped one yet?
2) How do you sharpen them?
3) What are some good ballpark prices for some of them? More or less than Henckels steel knives?

My Mom has a ceramic knife.

1) You must take special care of them, as they will chip or break. You can't drop them in the sink, you cannot cut bones or frozen-solid foods, you must never use them to pry or crush, and most importantly, you must NEVER, EVER cut on any surface other than wood or plastic cutting boards -- you will ruin the edge cutting on a plate, on metal, or glass. They are very strong, but are brittle.
2) You don't, you must sent it to the manufacturer. That said, a ceramic knife that hasn't been sharpened in 5 years is sharper than a new metal knife after a week of use. Since dullness in regular knives is mostly because of the edge folding over (hence the need to hone), ceramic knives (whose cutting edge is entirely rigid) do not lose their edge quickly at all.
3) A ceramic knife is expensive, and they don't come in all the shapes and sizes. An 8" chef's knife is the biggest, and those run around $150-200 USD. These are a great addition to a knife arsenal, but they cannot replace your metal knives.


FWIW, I've had excellent success with the cheap Calphalon brand knives from Linens and Things. They're forged, not stamped, and seem to hold a nice edge.

I own (listed in frequency of use; lengths are approximate):
- Calphalon 8" santoku
- Calphalon 5" santoku
- Calphalon 9" chef's knife (German blade shape)
- some cheap-brand (Farberware maybe?) forged serrated bread knife
- Cutco 10" chef's knife (French blade shape) I got as a gift

In other words, I've never spent more than about $25 on a knife -- as long as you don't mind it being made in China, you can get a decent forged knife for little money. (The Calphalon knives are made in China, but out of German steel.) I don't much care for the Cutco, the handle's a little thin and it doesn't have a proper heel. (Cutco is WAY overpriced for what it is -- it's a good-quality stamped knife. But like Bose, you can get the same quality for much, much less, or better quality for the same price or less.)

I do plan to buy a ceramic knife myself, I've always liked it. Those damned things are sharper than razor blades, and they stay that way.

[Atheist]

Although a good knife is important, care is equally so. Sharpening once a year is generally enough and as others have indicated, honing before each use is recommended. I've found the Victorinox line of knives from the Swiss Army folks an excellent choice for everyday use. And the price can't be beat (around US$25 for an 8" chef's knife).

[Eug]

Out of my cheap knives, I have one that is an "inWin" which is some $30 cleaver I got in Chinatown. It seems to hold an edge much better than the $20 cleavers I bought there, and it seems better built.

However, it's starting to rust even though it's stainless steel, because we wash it in the dishwasher, and probably the stainless steel quality ain't the greatest. With the Global I just bought I wouldn't be shocked if it held an edge only somewhat better, but the fit and finish is way nicer. I won't be washing the Global in the dishwasher though. That said, I wash all my stainless steel pots (which either have encased aluminum or incased copper bottoms) in the dishwasher, and none of them have even the slightest hint of rust.

I think I'm going to avoid the ceramic knives for now. We tend to abuse our knives. If our habits change, then I'll maybe I'll get a ceramic.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I got a beautiful MAC MTH-80 8" chef's knife from my brother for Christmas.



Cutting up veggies is a whole new world! I was slicing onions and tomatoes tonight and I could feel how impressed my roommate was....

greg

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

I got a beautiful MAC MTH-80 8" chef's knife from my brother for Christmas.

That’s Mac, not MAC. MAC is a Media Access Co----oh, wait, sorry. Automatic reflection. Wrong thread. Never mind.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777 

No mention of Cutco? I half kid - it's not for real Chef's. I did their gimmick selling thing for about 3 months back in '99... boy was that fun. Still have the demo knives I used while presenting, and they still work great.

We have a set that we got twelve or thirteen years ago when my wife's younger brother was selling them (before we had kids, when we had more money than sense). Since they're based out of Olean, NY, lots of young people in Buffalo and Rochester sell Cutco as their first foray into sales.

Gimmicky and overpriced, but they still work.

btw: Mas "retired" in 2002? I feel old.