[JUnderwood]

35 years ago kurt cobain was born. died 4/5/94.


I would have posted this morning but this is the first time today i went to macnn. Also the first i knew about OS X 10.1.3.

[daimoni]

.

[juanvaldes]

indded. He was on SNL last night on Comedy Central very cool

[Cellery]

Originally posted by daimoni:
<STRONG>Oh my god... I thought you were going to say Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. died!

Phew! </STRONG>

He's hardy, alright. I remember seeing him a number of years ago because "it might not be long before he dies." I've seen him twice since then, and he's still kicking. Even survived a fire in his apartment and his constant smoking.

[parallax]

I almost started crying as I clicked this thread, I thought it was Vonnegut too!

Phew indeed.

Originally posted by JUnderwood:
<STRONG>35 years ago kurt cobain was born. died 4/5/94.


I would have posted this morning but this is the first time today i went to macnn. Also the first i knew about OS X 10.1.3.</STRONG>

Could someone explain the popularity of Kurt Cobain? The way I saw it, he was a stoner who blew his head off. He never wrote anything great, he was a lousy singer - what was the big deal?

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by hayesk:
<STRONG>

Could someone explain the popularity of Kurt Cobain? The way I saw it, he was a stoner who blew his head off. He never wrote anything great, he was a lousy singer - what was the big deal?</STRONG>

let me guess...your over 30?

Great music that spoke out to my generation. That's about it. Was bumpin' some Hendrix earlier but now it's all Nirvana!!

[edit] BTW who the hell is Vonnegut? Or do I have to be over 30?

[ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: juanvaldes ]

[cheerios]

mmmm Nirvana... it's a generation thing, dude

[theUpsetter]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>

let me guess...your over 30?

Great music that spoke out to my generation. That's about it. Was bumpin' some Hendrix earlier but now it's all Nirvana!! </STRONG>

I'm with Hayesk, I'm only 20, but I think Nirvana sucks, even when I was 7th grade i thought they sucked. Frankly, shooting himself was the best carer move he ever made. Listen to his songs, they ALL have the same phrasing.

[Adam Silver]

Originally posted by hayesk:
<STRONG>

Could someone explain the popularity of Kurt Cobain? The way I saw it, he was a stoner who blew his head off. He never wrote anything great, he was a lousy singer - what was the big deal?</STRONG>

The way I see it, Kurt and co. wrote shallow drug music. Nothing special about that. There are plenty of bands doing that. What set him apart from everyone else who did this was that he was an incredible punk guitarist. Consider him a sort of 1990's hippie.

Scott Ian Rosenfeld, Anthrax's rhythm guitarist, wrote a song, Packaged Rebellion, about the grunge movement. He believed that it sounded good, was shallow, and offered no real solutions. That's my opinion too.

[Cipher13]

Come on. Nirvana, Pearl Jam and whatnot...

The Seattle rock/grunge...

A new era.

Just cause he's more famous than all your musical idols, don't get jealous

Yeah, who's this V guy?

[neill anblome]

Originally posted by hayesk:
<STRONG>

Could someone explain the popularity of Kurt Cobain? The way I saw it, he was a stoner who blew his head off. He never wrote anything great, he was a lousy singer - what was the big deal?</STRONG>

I used to think exactly the same way. But now I believe "grunge" (and Nirvana) had its rightful place in history and opened up the path for quite a few really good bands afterwards. Kurt Cobain wrote some awesome songs, and he was a great guitarist as well. I enjoy listening to Nirvana every now and then (yes I am over 30 now!!! ), and when you actually take a closer look at the lyrics you find that they are anything but shallow! I wish Kurt Cobain and Nirvana were still around to make music. Too bad he took his life...oh well whatever, nevermind.

RIP

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by neill anblome:
<STRONG>

I used to think exactly the same way. But now I believe "grunge" (and Nirvana) had its rightful place in history and opened up the path for quite a few really good bands afterwards.</STRONG>

On that note the big thing that Nirvana did was bring an end to the 80's hair band frenzy.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>

On that note the big thing that Nirvana did was bring an end to the 80's hair band frenzy.</STRONG>

For that reason ALONE they're legends!!

Neill - nice pun

[voodoo]

It is not just a "generation" thing, some people don't understand why KKobain became that popular. Basically the Teen Spirit gig was the only song Nirvana made which got playing on MTV and soon after the dude blasts his skull cleen off. Then marketing at Geffen took over and made Nirvana
1000000x more popular than they ever would have been.

The best thing that came out of this was that the former drummer in Nirvana picked up the guitar and founded Foo Fighters, which are pretty good.

And I suppose Courtney is happy too...

He was a very overrated man.

[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: voodoo ]

[m a d r a]

Could someone explain the popularity of Kurt Cobain? The way I saw it, he was a stoner who blew his head off. He never wrote anything great, he was a lousy singer - what was the big deal?

never wrote anything great?...

smells like teen spirit
come as you are
all apologies

[to name but three]

lousy singer...

listen to that MTV unplugged gig and then tell me that guy couldn't sing.

commiting suicide - yeah. he was on a hendrix/sid vicious trip and wanted to live fast and die young. the fact that it was a bit more calculated than their demises doesn't detract from the fact that he did burn out rather than fade away [and listening to the heart-shaped box album, it probably was a good career move. nirvana were definately past their prime]

[philzilla]

Originally posted by voodoo:
<STRONG>It is not just a "generation" thing, some people don't understand why KKobain became that popular. Basically the Teen Spirit gig was the only song Nirvana made which got playing on MTV and soon after the dude blasts his skull cleen off. Then marketing at Geffen took over and made Nirvana
1000000x more popular than they ever would have been. </STRONG>

the only song? soon after? you've obviously not checked your facts here. go and do some research. i think you might find that they were slightly popular before he died too

<STRONG>The best thing that came out of this was that the former drummer in Nirvana picked up the guitar and founded Foo Fighters, which are pretty good.</STRONG>

dave grohl was going to do the foo fighters album anyway, before Cobain topped himself

<STRONG>And I suppose Courtney is happy too...</STRONG>

courtney? happy? why is she dragging the whole thing through courts constantly then?

<STRONG>He was a very overrated man.</STRONG>

obviously, that's why he had millions of fans around the world...

i suggest you look into things in a bit more depth, before you post your opinion about them

[edited to fix poopy spelling]

[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: philzilla ]

[MacGorilla]

I never really got into Nirvana's music....tho I had nothing against them. I did see them Unplugged and thought they were good. made think, "you know, Kurt, if you plugged that guitar more often..."

It is a tragedy. Such genius snuffed out.

[scaught]

Originally posted by Adam Silver:
<STRONG>What set him apart from everyone else who did this was that he was an incredible punk guitarist.</STRONG>

well. i wouldnt call kurt cobains guitar work "incredible" nor "punk". his songwriting skills were certainly above par, which is what made that band as popular as they were. the only way they were going to rise to the top of a zillion other bands that sounded like them was that their songwriting was better. take elvis costello for instance, not an insanely great musician, just a great songwriter.

[maxelson]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>

let me guess...your over 30?

Great music that spoke out to my generation. That's about it. Was bumpin' some Hendrix earlier but now it's all Nirvana!!

[edit] BTW who the hell is Vonnegut? Or do I have to be over 30?

[ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: juanvaldes ]</STRONG>

WHA!?!? I... you... WHAT?!?!? JUAN! I am SHOCKED and APPALLED!!! What is... WHO IS....!?!? Vonne.. You... WHAT?!?
VONNEGUT, MAN! IT's VONNEGUT!!!
Slaughterhouse 5
Cat's Cradle
Galapogos
Deadeye Dick
TimeQuake
Wampeters...etc
Mother Night
Player Piano (am must read for techies)
Slapstick
Bluebeard
Jailbird
Breakfast of Champions
Hocus Pocus
Fates Worse than Death
Sirens of Titan
Welcome to the Monkeyhouse
God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater
Palm Sunday

AND THAT"S JUST WHAT I CAN REMEMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD!!! Good GOD, BOY!!! READ!!! REEEAAAD!!!

I was never into Cobain much. Not big on legend status for suicides. Never really appreciated the music. Loved his version of The Man Who Sold the World, though...

[theolein]

I started to play the bass in 1990 and played in a band in Rotterdam, NL for a while and the bands that motivated me most to play with albums/songs were:
Red Hot Chili Peppers: Blood Suger Sex Magic
Nirvana: Smells like teen spirit and come as you are.
and
Pearl Jam:10

But the whole grunge thing was incredibly depressing and seemed to have a sort of built in self destruct.

I'm glad it stopped.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by maxelson:
<STRONG>

WHA!?!? I... you... WHAT?!?!? JUAN! I am SHOCKED and APPALLED!!! What is... WHO IS....!?!? Vonne.. You... WHAT?!?
VONNEGUT, MAN! IT's VONNEGUT!!!
Slaughterhouse 5
Cat's Cradle
Galapogos
Deadeye Dick
TimeQuake
Wampeters...etc
Mother Night
Player Piano (am must read for techies)
Slapstick
Bluebeard
Jailbird
Breakfast of Champions
Hocus Pocus
Fates Worse than Death
Sirens of Titan
Welcome to the Monkeyhouse
God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater
Palm Sunday

AND THAT"S JUST WHAT I CAN REMEMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD!!! Good GOD, BOY!!! READ!!! REEEAAAD!!!

I was never into Cobain much. Not big on legend status for suicides. Never really appreciated the music. Loved his version of The Man Who Sold the World, though...</STRONG>

Not one of those names rings a bell... I still have no idea who that guy is...

Theolein: Blood, Sugar, Sex, Magik is one of the best albums of all time. Equal best, without a doubt in my mind.

[malvolio]

Originally posted by cheerios:
<STRONG>mmmm Nirvana... it's a generation thing, dude </STRONG>

Not necessarily. 50-year-old Nirvana fan here.

But seriously, folks, read some Kurt Vonnegut. The man's a freaking genius! Sort of an early Douglas Adams, with a darker outlook.

[JUnderwood]

Well if you ask any hardcore nirvana fan they will say Love did it. I used to be but over the years said screw it. I still listen to them and pearl jam, and soundgarden.

Here is something for you non-nirvana fans

Who is Vonnegut?

[xi_hyperon]

grunge is so played- it came and went on the radio in a matter of a couple of years. Nirvana's unplugged stuff was good, but that's about the only lasting impression I got from the whole "genre", if you can consider it to be one.

&gt;runs out of thread because he forgot the asbestos suit today&lt;

[maxelson]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>

Not one of those names rings a bell... I still have no idea who that guy is...

</STRONG>

WHAT!?! Slaughterhouse Five?!? C'mere, you... *slap* It's SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE, fer *slap* chrissakes! *slap* It is one of the great masterpieces *slap* of western li *slap* ter *slap* a *slap* ture!!!
I mean, Really! Vonnegut! 20 century literary MASTER... Slaughterhouse Five! Literary Masterpiece! *slap*
*turns on heel to walk out- thinks better of it- returns*
*slap*
*exeunt*

[maxelson]

No. Wait. You get off that machine RIGHT NOW, young man, and get your ass to a bookstore... I MEAN IT!

[daimoni]

.

[maxelson]

Literary God.
And his signature. You know. In case you wuz innarested:

[maxelson]

For those of you just joining us:
Kurt Vonnegut= NOT dead.
Kurt Cobain= dead.

[Korv]

Nirvaa was not just a generational thing, though they were a once in a generation band. Every now and then someone comes along that is revolutionary, that is head and shoulders above their contemporaries, that cannot be classified because they are a definition unto themselves. Led Zepelin comes to mind. As does Nirvana. Kurt Cobain was a genius, and the heart and soul of the band Nirvana, which was so good they turned music on its head. The rest of the "grunge" movement was just a bunch of posers following in Nirvana's foot steps. (I'm not going to be popular for saying this, but...) PearlJam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains never did anything for me: I think they are all crap. So deride "grunge" all you want but Nirvana was a great band.

But even if theose other bands didn't sdo it for me, at least it was better than this Backstreet/Britteney thing going on now. Oh... that reminds me... Britney Spears is taking a page from Nirvana. You know how her (and her publicist) are always spelling her name differently? Kurt (or Curt or Kerdt, etc.) did the same thing 10 years before... ooooh that Britney is so complex. OK, enough with the generational crap. I feel so old.

There are reasons I can see for not liking Nirvana. You don't like loud music. My parents, for example, could never get over the screaming to enjoy the music. Or if you don't like grunge and have never listed to Nirvana because you change the radio station when they come on. You can't like what you haven't heard... I would seriously recommend picking up a copy of Nevermind... it is that good.

The detractor on here may even be right, killing himself was a good career move, as madra has intimated. Bleached, Nevermind, Incesticide, Unplugged, Heart Shaped Box. That group of music was not only influential, but one of the best lots by any artist ever.

$0.02. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Flame Away.

[maxelson]

Not like loud music? Naw. Didn't care for the overall sound. DIscordant distortion never made me tingle. As for loud/ brash/ etc, among my favorite bands is the indominable King Crimson. It is not that I don't like hard muzak. I just never cared for THAT hard muzak. I'm only 34. Puts me in my mid 20s when they were roaring around. Me, I just saw nothing new in their music. Of course, when I am told someone is revolutionary so many times, I look for the revolution and get disdainful if I don't find one. I just didn't find one (not for want of looking, mind... I am VERY open minded when it comes to music). Just MHO, mind, but I don't think they would have lasted the decade. If the boy had lived, they would've petered out the way WHAM and (insert mad craze band name here).
Again, I do not disparage anyone's taste for the stuff. I do not disparage them. I just really don't care for it. Or see what all the fuss was about.

[keekeeree]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>

let me guess...your over 30?

</STRONG>

Hey, I'm over 30, but guess what? I'm still a few years younger than Kurt woulda been if he hadn't off'd himself. Kills me (no pun intended) how when you're younger, you think nobody could ever understand you and your music, not realizing that the majority of it is written by an age-group 10-20 years older than them.

Anyway, back to Kurt. I'm also of the opinion that he and Nirvana are much overrated and overhyped. Sure, I've got the disk in my collection, but I'd hardly call it a masterpiece. Pearl Jam's Ten from the same year, now that's closer to a masterpiece.

Kurt played up the angry, frustrated, mistrustful youth persona. Remember, at the release of Nevermind, he was well on his way to his mid-20's...angry youth...yeah right. And fourteen-year-olds worldwide swallowed it up. Sure, grundge drove the nail in the coffin of the flashy hair-bands of the time, but what did we get in exchange? Songs to commit suicide over, dirty jean, and enough f*cking flannel to choke Godzilla.

The grundge fad (and that's what it was) wasn't any more legit than the flash of the 80's hair-bands, just a reaction to it. Sure,�I admit that I grew up on 80's metal (Judas Priest, Ratt, Faster Pussycat, G&R, Anthrax, Megadeth and Metallica to name a few), but at no time did I ever delude myself into thinking that any of them were genius'. As some of them faded into oblivion, I moved on too by listening to the new bands and not building a shrine to the 80's metal scene and proclaim David Lee Roth as a genius that the older generations just never got (Roth, for all the attitude and fun he brought to Van Halen (and left with), a genius he is not).

[maxelson]

I consider musical genius to be a quality that transcends fads. Take a look at some of the folks out there who are as popular and relevant today as they were thirty years ago: The Dead. Peter Gabriel.
Crimson. Stones. Moody Blues. Dylan (don't care for him, myself, but the influence is undeniable). CSN. Yes. Floyd. The Who. They keep moving and reinventing themselves and they retain their essence. OK, not the Dead so much anymore. The influence these folks have had on the art form is staggering. They continue to influence. They are relevant. I just don't see Nirvana's relevance lasting thirty years. Then, of course, there are the bands that are not around any more and yet they continue to inspire generations of musicians. Led Zep, as an example.
This unpopular view a public service brought to you by Max- the geezer.

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by keekeeree:
<STRONG>

Hey, I'm over 30, but guess what? I'm still a few years younger than Kurt woulda been if he hadn't off'd himself. Kills me (no pun intended) how when you're younger, you think nobody could ever understand you and your music, not realizing that the majority of it is written by an age-group 10-20 years older than them.</STRONG>

nah, but you have to admit the older you get the less people you will find that are into Nirvana and other music. But malvolio os a great example that this is not always true.

And again Vonn*who?*
I read very little, the only book series I have really read is the wheel of time. It's long enough for me

[maxelson]

Get Slaughterhouse Five. Cat's Cradle. Any of them. Read. Seriously. The guy is one of the great masters... and I just don't go throwing that word around to describe an artist. I'd never steer you wrong, Juan...

[shadybirdstan]

Let's see, I think it plays to the fact that most (if not all) of the bands that are popular now basically ripped of their sound from either Nirvana or Pearl Jam, whether they do it better or not can be debated but the face that they replicate their sound, cannot.

[anarkisst]

Originally posted by Adam Silver:
<STRONG>

The way I see it, Kurt and co. wrote shallow drug music. Nothing special about that. There are plenty of bands doing that. What set him apart from everyone else who did this was that he was an incredible punk guitarist. Consider him a sort of 1990's hippie.

Scott Ian Rosenfeld, Anthrax's rhythm guitarist, wrote a song, Packaged Rebellion, about the grunge movement. He believed that it sounded good, was shallow, and offered no real solutions. That's my opinion too.</STRONG>

Your opinion is that Anthrax was a legendary, visionary group? Ok...
I was shocked when I heard of Cobain's death. It was the day after my birthday. Not trying to make comparisons here, but Martin Luther King died on my birthday and Marvin Gaye a few days before mine...

I was 34 when Cobain died and it had an effect on me because of my younger nephews and nieces were into his music. I think he would have been a powerful musical contributor if he lived. Now we got Courtney Love to deal with. Release the tapes you skank bitch!

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by maxelson:
<STRONG>

WHAT!?! Slaughterhouse Five?!? C'mere, you... *slap* It's SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE, fer *slap* chrissakes! *slap* It is one of the great masterpieces *slap* of western li *slap* ter *slap* a *slap* ture!!!
I mean, Really! Vonnegut! 20 century literary MASTER... Slaughterhouse Five! Literary Masterpiece! *slap*
*turns on heel to walk out- thinks better of it- returns*
*slap*
*exeunt*</STRONG>

Max, you CRACK ME UP!! Telling kids to read, talking about literary masters. Funny stuff!

And to keep on topic, anyone who commits suicide is a huge loser in my book.

[MacGorilla]

And to keep on topic, anyone who commits suicide is a huge loser in my book.

Ditto.

[SillyMonk]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>

On that note the big thing that Nirvana did was bring an end to the 80's hair band frenzy.</STRONG>

You are so right.

What Nirvana did for the music BUSINESS was make indie bands chic. If you didn't live through 80's music you have no idea how bad it was before SubPop et al. Nirvana and others -they weren't alone- allowed all those cool 90's bands to exist. The SUITS weren't going to sign indie acts because they couldn't see the dollar signs. The 90's had cool music in part due to the music BUSINESS wising up to good indie music. The 80's was mostly about corporate crotch rock, dance and left-over 70's arena rock. I spent the 80's listening to 60's rock and punk --which were the choices back then. Then Rap and indie rock happened and it totally changed everything!

Sure grunge is played out, so what? You can still appreciate a great songwriter!

[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: SillyMonk ]

[daimoni]

.

[SillyMonk]

Originally posted by daimoni:
<STRONG>

Not to split hairs... but I would have to argue that it was Sonic Youth that deserves the credit for making indie rock chic. They were signed to Geffen first.... and then urged them to sign Nirvana.

I'm sure the surviving members of Nirvana would agree with me on this.

The 80's weren't all bad in the U.S. -- remember Mission of Burma, Minutemen, Husker Du, Meat Puppets, Game Theory, X, Misfits, Black Flag, Dead Kennedys, The Replacements, Sonic Youth, etc., etc., etc... these were the stateside bands that kept me strong during the horrible Reagan/Bush/Thatcher years.</STRONG>

You're not splitting hairs, I think you may be mostly right. I tried to say that others helped, but I think Nirvana broke everything wide open, whereas Sonic Youth didn't have the influence of Kurt and co on the business side of things and on MOR radio. Of course I am the first to concede that I may be talking through my hat.

Punk really helped me through those crappy times, and later rap bands like BDP and Public Enemy. I still listen to those goodies. I had Fresh Fruit for Rotten Vegetables on yesterday (the only album Jello Biafra gets royalties for.) Unfortunately all my LPs got stolen in 1991 so all my old punk albums are in CD form. Oh, man did I dig fIREHOSE!!

PS (OT) the last good album by the Chili's was Mothers Milk --all downhill from there.

[Korv]

Originally posted by daimoni:
<STRONG>

Not to split hairs... but I would have to argue that it was Sonic Youth that deserves the credit for making indie rock chic. They were signed to Geffen first.... and then urged them to sign Nirvana.

I'm sure the surviving members of Nirvana would agree with me on this.

The 80's weren't all bad in the U.S. -- remember Mission of Burma, Minutemen, Husker Du, Meat Puppets, Game Theory, X, Misfits, Black Flag, Dead Kennedys, The Replacements, Sonic Youth, etc., etc., etc... these were the stateside bands that kept me strong during the horrible Reagan/Bush/Thatcher years.</STRONG>

I'm right there with you Daimoni. Sonic Youth, Dead Kennedys, et al. were/are great bands. I listened to them often, and loudly. Sonic Youth may have cracked the door, but without a doubt it was Nirvana that burrst it open. They were truly the first of the indie rock types to hit the top of the top 40 lists. I knew alternative was dead the day I turned on the top 40 station and they were playing nirvana. It took six months from release to get smells like teen spirit onto the pop stations. After that I paid attention to how long it took from release for a kick ass album/song to get to the pop radio stations and it kept going down.... Four months, three months, one month. Until the pop was picking up the indie/alternation stuff when it was being released. Indie/alternative wasn't a good name for it anymore, and it became "grunge". So... I'm sticking to my guns that it was Nirvana.. and I don't want to take anything away from those other bands. I loved some of them a lot (especially Sonic Youth and Dead Kennedys ). But Nirvana was a cut above.

Oh, and those of you who still don't like Nirvana (forget who)... that's cool. That's the cool thing about art: everyone gets an opinion.

P.S. Speaking "generationally", I hope my generation for a few good bands. Some act survive time, and are enjoyed by future generations. Beatles. Dead. Doors. Zeppelin. Hendrix. Etc. I want my generation to be remembered (please please) for these three bands:

1. NIN
2. Nirvana
3. Red Hot Chilli Peppers

P.P.S. I'm sure there's still good music out there, but I'm getting old. And just like I've lost all my drug connections, I've lost all my music connections... and what's on the radio SUCKS. That's why I stick to the old stuff. Sex Pistols (PIL, Left Field Lydon). NitzerEbb. Pixies (Frank Black). Stone Roses. Oldskool rap. And Nirvana.

[Korv]

Originally posted by SillyMonk:
<STRONG>
Punk really helped me through those crappy times, and later rap bands like BDP and Public Enemy. I still listen to those goodies. I had Fresh Fruit for Rotten Vegetables on yesterday (the only album Jello Biafra gets royalties for.) Unfortunately all my LPs got stolen in 1991 so all my old punk albums are in CD form. Oh, man did I dig fIREHOSE!!</STRONG>

BDP. Public Enemy. Pharcyde. NWA. Del. Black Sheep. Yaaaaaa!

Originally posted by SillyMonk:
<STRONG>PS (OT) the last good album by the Chili's was Mothers Milk --all downhill from there.</STRONG>

I disagree. Blood Sugar Sex Magic, and then downhill. Of course... the early stuff was so good they have a loooooooong way to go down before they're no good.

[Adam Silver]

Originally posted by scaught:
<STRONG>

well. i wouldnt call kurt cobains guitar work "incredible" nor "punk". his songwriting skills were certainly above par, which is what made that band as popular as they were. the only way they were going to rise to the top of a zillion other bands that sounded like them was that their songwriting was better. take elvis costello for instance, not an insanely great musician, just a great songwriter.</STRONG>

I suppose incredible is a subjective term. Punk, however, is not. Grunge bands were simply punk bands who didn't bath and/or cut and comb their hair.

I fail to see what made Kurt Kobain a great songwriter. Just about every Nirvana song was shallow drug music offering no real solutions. People have written songs like his since the 1960's. What made his superior?

[AKcrab]

I keep noticing mentions of RHCP. Haven't you all heard them perform live? Jesus, that man CAN NOT sing, even a little! The only reason their albums sound even remotely good is the magic of the studio. RHCP unplugged? NO thanks!!

[scaught]

Originally posted by Adam Silver:
<STRONG>

I suppose incredible is a subjective term. Punk, however, is not. Grunge bands were simply punk bands who didn't bath and/or cut and comb their hair.

I fail to see what made Kurt Kobain a great songwriter. Just about every Nirvana song was shallow drug music offering no real solutions. People have written songs like his since the 1960's. What made his superior?</STRONG>

there was NOTHING "punk" about grunge bands. punk can take many forms, but that grunge shit was NONE of them. grunge = wanna be 70s rockers trying to hold onto to some sort of "indie cool sensibilities".

lyrically, kobains music may have been "shallow drug music offering no real solutions", but he wrote a catchy tune. thats all im saying when i say "good songwriter".

[andi*pandi]

AKcrab:

you have a point about the chili peppers live. I saw them 2 years ago double-bill with the foofighters. While I didn't think they sucked, the fighters of foo gave much better show. Longer set, better crowd-pleasing, more enthusiasm. Plus the chilis had really annoying background graphics.

As for nirvana, I don't think it was just shallow drug music. Some of their best songs were very powerful messages, about self-worth, relationships, etc, and the others were good tunes.

You can't knock grunge's calling: to make you feel good about feeling bad.

[rambo47]

I miss Jerry. It's a generation thing...