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CRASH HARDDRIVE · Aug 27, 2002, 05:01 AM

Okay first off, yes I realized that Jaguar has some amazing new networking technology added to it. Yes, I know Macs can now talk to a whole host of system types- practically all of them I would guess.

What I didn't realize- what that actually means when put into practice on a huge network!

Holy good crap! Has Apple created a monster here? Suddenly my work G4 (Of course did my own unauthorized 10.2 install on it) is like some kind of monster network-crawler!

Jaguar unleashed on a large corporate network is like an out of control super-networking agent, able to go where no single computer has gone (or maybe is supposed to go) before!

Pre Jaguar- my work G4 and my own PowerBook were able to see only the 2 internal networks of my own department and access about 30-40 machines therein.

Installing 10.2 blows the barn doors off whatever access restrictions were placed on my machines before. I don't know the how's and whys of it, but it runs roughshod over restrictions in even being able to see networks I *know* for a fact just anyone is not supposed to.

Now in my �Connect to Server� menu, 16 additional internal networks pop-up and the grand total of machines I can see and access is in the outer stratosphere! (My initial guestimate; at least 200+ and counting).

I�m talking render farms, transfer stations, Unix and Windows networks of all variety, content creations workstations, print stations, our entire AVID dpt. and related edit bays (I know all the user names) the executive floor�s private network(!!!) a gazillion printers on 6 different floors, our company�s web servers, all the Tech and IT networks, test servers, a web-cam server, the building�s security dept�s network(!!!!!) DVD master workstations, dept. storage networks� etc. etc. etc. all there! All of this stuff is massivly protected from outside... but from the inside? It's a sitting duck to Jaguar.

Of course I can�t actually access everything just because I can see it, but on the same token much of it is actually completely unprotected by passwords, or easily guessed dept. name PWs (typical laziness). A lot of stuff is childsplay to guess, because I�m so familiar with the (lazy) security structure of the company in general (again typical). Err� coff coff, that is I�m guessing all this is the case� not that I actually did any unauthorized exploring or anything!

I don�t know all the technical details of networking, but 10.2 seems to be a monster at it!

I guess one doesn�t actually realize the extent of Apple�s new networking technology until you toss Jag into a large network with all kinds of Unix-doohickeys and Samba-whatchamacallits and whatever the hell else is going on, and then open the server window!

I have a PC running Win2K and Linux in my office as well� neither can see any of these additional networks, (The 2K machine can access one other Windows network) but the Mac sees everything.

The only thing that bugs me is the two-way street possibility; are my Macs showing up to users of the networks I�m not actually authorized to browse? Can I expect a shake down visit from the tech-monkeys anytime soon? (Question put to anyone who is a networking guru).

I know Apple�s intentions are to make Macs fit in anywhere� But I have to wonder, will all this networking super firepower scare the living crap out of IT types in �stick-up-the-ass� type corporations who already hate having Macs on the network as it is? Can they make the case that 10.2 running Macs are now security risks?

Anyway, my hat is off to Apple! This is one thing they did really well!

Mediaman_12 · Aug 27, 2002, 05:59 AM

Be warned, Mac OSX will leave a trail of invisable ._ files in every Directory it visits. If you have a M$ drone as a sys admin he could get pissed at all these 'unknown' (to him at least) new invisable files all over 'his' network.

Zimphire · Aug 27, 2002, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
Be warned, Mac OSX will leave a trail of invisable ._ files in every Directory it visits. If you have a M$ drone as a sys admin he could get pissed at all these 'unknown' (to him at least) new invisable files all over 'his' network.

I see you have delt with insecure system admins before too.

cdhostage · Aug 27, 2002, 08:04 AM

Thaz right - even if you CAN acess your boss' private porn stash doesn't mean you should.

typoon · Aug 27, 2002, 12:35 PM

You are right about that. At work here we have a bunch of boxes, Mostly Wintel boxes and Jag just picks everything up. No hassle, no fuss. It just does.

Adam Betts · Aug 27, 2002, 02:27 PM

I'm just curious.. Is this part of Rendezvous or it's just Mac-To-Windows improvement in Jaguar?

Mac Zealot · Aug 27, 2002, 02:36 PM

Sounds like both

Incredible, that's all I have to say :-D

xi_hyperon · Aug 27, 2002, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
I'm just curious.. Is this part of Rendezvous or it's just Mac-To-Windows improvement in Jaguar?

Just a Mac-to-Windows improvement. I had DAVE on OS 9, and it did the exact same thing- I could see stuff no one else could. They were baffled how I didn't have to "map" myself to another drive.

RAzaRazor · Aug 27, 2002, 02:44 PM

Just make sure that your computer is not acting as a DHCP server, or IT will be on your ass very quickly.

Rendevous turns this on by default, so make sure to turn it off!!

See the message from a guy named Phil Benware here:
http://www.macintouch.com/mosxreaderjaguar08.html#aug12

TonyRado · Aug 27, 2002, 02:51 PM

heheh, I am sooo looking forward to getting Jaguar (whenever Amazon & the US post office decides to deliver it).

Re: "But I have to wonder, will all this networking super firepower scare the living crap out of IT types in �stick-up-the-ass� type corporations who already hate having Macs on the network as it is? Can they make the case that 10.2 running Macs are now security risks?"

- Well, I think that the "IT types" already have enough hatred for Macs (even pre 10.2) to make a case (regardless of merit) against allowing Macs on the network. As far as I'm concerned, they're all full of sh!t anyway. At least Jag will allow us users who aren't IT/networking professionals to use the system of "our choice" to do "our job" (even if has to continue to be done on the "dl")

Regarding your question about others accessing your Mac� Wouldn't you have to set up a "user" and give some access privileges for that to happen?

OwlBoy · Aug 27, 2002, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by RAzaRazor:
Just make sure that your computer is not acting as a DHCP server, or IT will be on your ass very quickly.

Rendevous turns this on by default, so make sure to turn it off!!

See the message from a guy named Phil Benware here:
http://www.macintouch.com/mosxreaderjaguar08.html#aug12

Apple DOES warn about that!

olePigeon · Aug 27, 2002, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
I know Apple�s intentions are to make Macs fit in anywhere� But I have to wonder, will all this networking super firepower scare the living crap out of IT types in �stick-up-the-ass� type corporations who already hate having Macs on the network as it is? Can they make the case that 10.2 running Macs are now security risks?

Anyone who runs Windows on a network and claims a networked Mac is a security risk deserves to be fired... or worse.

rampant · Aug 27, 2002, 10:48 PM

I don't think you could have come up with a more cheesy and hateful topic name. Good job.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Aug 28, 2002, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by RAzaRazor:
Just make sure that your computer is not acting as a DHCP server, or IT will be on your ass very quickly.

Rendevous turns this on by default, so make sure to turn it off!!

See the message from a guy named Phil Benware here:
http://www.macintouch.com/mosxreaderjaguar08.html#aug12

That's good to know.

Interesting that he mentions a PowerBook with an Airport card. Ever since I put an airport card in my TiBook I've noticed the presence of all kinds of Wi-Fi networks at work. All the conditions he calls disasterous are met too- a large server enviro with DCHP servers. Needless to say I'll be keeping Internet sharing off.

Regarding your question about others accessing your Mac� Wouldn't you have to set up a "user" and give some access privileges for that to happen?

Not worried about anyone actually accessing my machines, just them showing up to users and admins on networks where they aren't supposed to be. I figure if I can see them, it stands to reason they can see me. My network is always on, I need my machine visable and file-share enabled on the networks I do use.

Just about everyone else is still using OS9.2. It's a safe bet the tech dept. is clueless about any 10.2 issues.

Anyway, I like Jag too much to go back to 10.1.5 so screw it.

Be warned, Mac OSX will leave a trail of invisable ._ files in every Directory it visits.

Is that every directory 'visited', or actually read from/written to? OSX leaves ._ files in a directory just by browsing it? Yikes!

El Pre$idente · Aug 28, 2002, 03:57 AM

A good hacker could even use a Dreamcast to hack any network!

Mediaman_12 · Aug 28, 2002, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
Is that every directory 'visited', or actually read from/written to? OSX leaves ._ files in a directory just by browsing it? Yikes!

use one of the methods to turn on 'show invisable files' and you will see it leaves 2 files in every directory you browse, one stores the icon positions and the other stores the 'view' option (I think?)