[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

They need more standard RAM. What the crap is up with 1 Gb standard? The MacBook Pro has 2 Gb standard, the Mac Pro should have at least 2 Gb standard on one chip. Also I think at least a standard 500 Gb HD is needed.

I do not want to see more RAM from Apple. Apple way overcharges for RAM and IMO MPs need more than 2 GB anyway, so I prefer adding third party RAM, specifically OWC.

Remember that the current lame hard drive configuration is more than a year old. Also, many pro users want to install third party hard drives just like they do RAM so for those folks the less Apple drive the better. My guess is that new MP hard drives will be 500 GB or larger, but it probably depends on what price Apple pays. Bigger standard drive means more money on the sticker price.

-Allen Wicks

[goMac]

What capacities are the 10,000 RPM drives up to anyway? I know I want to have 3 drives, one for OS X, one for Time Machine, and one for Windows, but I can't decide what to use for my primary OS X drive.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I do not want to see more RAM from Apple. Apple way overcharges for RAM and IMO MPs need more than 2 GB anyway, so I prefer adding third party RAM, specifically OWC.

We don't know how much Apple is building into the price for the base RAM. The upgrade RAM is a scam, but they may be more reasonable when adjusting prices for the stock RAM.

Originally Posted by goMac 

What capacities are the 10,000 RPM drives up to anyway? I know I want to have 3 drives, one for OS X, one for Time Machine, and one for Windows, but I can't decide what to use for my primary OS X drive.

150GB for SATA, 300GB for SAS; you even even go to 15000 RPM with SAS.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I do not want to see more RAM from Apple. Apple way overcharges for RAM and IMO MPs need more than 2 GB anyway, so I prefer adding third party RAM, specifically OWC.

Remember that the current lame hard drive configuration is more than a year old. Also, many pro users want to install third party hard drives just like they do RAM so for those folks the less Apple drive the better. My guess is that new MP hard drives will be 500 GB or larger, but it probably depends on what price Apple pays. Bigger standard drive means more money on the sticker price.

-Allen Wicks

I never complain when extra is standard. Bigger standard drives and RAM do not equal more money on the sticker price. The iMac, MacBook, and MacBook Pro prices have gone down and they now have much more standard than before. The MacBook Pro used to have 512 Mb of RAM standard, now it's 2 Gb, MacBook's 512 Mb, now 1 Gb. The MacBook Pros have gone down in cost, MacBooks have a little too.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I do not want to see more RAM from Apple. Apple way overcharges for RAM and IMO MPs need more than 2 GB anyway, so I prefer adding third party RAM, specifically OWC.

So what if they put 4GB in the base model? For all we know they could charge a very reasonable price. It's the BTO RAM that's usually expensive. 1 GB in a 3 GHz octo-core monster shouldn't be sold at all in the first place.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Bigger standard drives and RAM do not equal more money on the sticker price.

Basic economics suggests that adding anything adds cost to the sticker price.

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

The MacBook Pro used to have 512 Mb of RAM standard, now it's 2 Gb...

Thanks for the perfect example that makes my point. A pro user needs to pull out the two 1-GB DIMMs and replace them with two 2-GB DIMMs in order to max the RAM in a MBP. Personally I prefer not to pay for any more throwaway RAM than necessary.

Note that Apple always uses the cheaper smaller sized DIMMs, often a waste of slots for folks building max setups.

-Allen Wicks

[suneohair]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

Basic economics suggests that adding anything adds cost to the sticker price.

Thanks for the perfect example that makes my point. A pro user needs to pull out the two 1-GB DIMMs and replace them with two 2-GB DIMMs in order to max the RAM in a MBP. Personally I prefer not to pay for any more throwaway RAM than necessary.

Note that Apple always uses the cheaper smaller sized DIMMs, often a waste of slots for folks building max setups.

-Allen Wicks

Some muddled, smug stuff which followed the same pattern "Economics suggests that..."

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by suneohair 

This is what you should be thinking about. (from your erased answer, addessing Sierra Dragon)

Some muddled, smug stuff. (from your new answer, referring to Sierra Dragon's post)

Thanks for showering us with the white light of your reason.

Sierra Dragon made a good point simply. You said a lot in your original post, but it didn't clarify much. (maybe that's why you erased it, so people wouldn't see)

Sierra Dragon is seriously invested in this community and makes numerous, regular, helpful posts. You have been a member since 2006, but your contributions are, let's say, not extensive. Please show proper respect.

[MallyMal]

So, yeah, I'm still waiting on some goodies to be released. I've been trying to stop ranting about it.

[Bigfoot]

So, Tuesday the 13th... skunked again.

[francklazare]

There's always tomorrow... Seriously, what one should do? Keep waiting, or purchase the current line. Would the performance improvement justify the wait? I'm a photographer, and I need a Pro for processing, cataloguing using Photoshop and Lightroom. I'm thinking of getting a Pro with the ATI Radeon X1900 XT card. Currently Apple is selling a refurbished Mac Pro Quad 3.0GHz Intel Xeon, 2GB (4 x 512MB) memory for $3300. Does it make sense for me to purchase that machine now, or wait for a new (elusive) model?

[trying2switch]

Hi, I've been sitting in the shadows here for months reading these posts, wondering WHEN WILL IT APPEAR ? I thought for sure it would be today, but no?

Is there a well-connected/informed mac person out there who has any further inkling? Will we have to wait for the MacWorld conference? aaaaaaagh!!!
It's getting harder and harder to keep from upgrading my PC, which would surely kill my mac-transition...

[~bash $]

Originally Posted by francklazare 

There's always tomorrow... Seriously, what one should do? Keep waiting, or purchase the current line. Would the performance improvement justify the wait? I'm a photographer, and I need a Pro for processing, cataloguing using Photoshop and Lightroom. I'm thinking of getting a Pro with the ATI Radeon X1900 XT card. Currently Apple is selling a refurbished Mac Pro Quad 3.0GHz Intel Xeon, 2GB (4 x 512MB) memory for $3300. Does it make sense for me to purchase that machine now, or wait for a new (elusive) model?

By all means, wait! Unless you are hemorrhaging money at your company because of not having a better machine right now, updates are coming, soon. And substantial ones, if you believe the claims of the 45 nm process. Worst case scenario, January.

[goMac]

We could also see the update on Thursday. Doubt we'd see one on Friday though.

[suneohair]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

Thanks for showering us with the white light of your reason.

Sierra Dragon made a good point simply. You said a lot in your original post, but it didn't clarify much. (maybe that's why you erased it, so people wouldn't see)

Sierra Dragon is seriously invested in this community and makes numerous, regular, helpful posts. You have been a member since 2006, but your contributions are, let's say, not extensive. Please show proper respect.

Give me a break. I am not about to show proper respect for a post that has no worth. If you weren't clouded by "post count" maybe you could see past that, but apparently not. Also, I erased because I prefer not to deal with annoying people such as yourself. But I suppose that can't be avoided now.

Economics tells us that new things get cheaper, there are better parts (bigger HDs, better GPUs, higher capacity memory) that will have replaced the standard Mac Pro configuration. Which means the Mac Pro will be getting, more RAM, bigger stock HD, better stock GPU, etc. It is inevitable. It is what has happened with every Apple product to date. They get updated.

The argument that pros want to add more is irrelevant. Apple wouldn't be adding another HD, they would be replacing it with one that better suits the current condition relative to where it was when the Mac Pro was released. That is the fact.

SeirraDragon was responding to this:

Bigger standard drives and RAM do not equal more money on the sticker price.

But we aren't talking about adding, basic economics does not suggest that REPLACING something adds cost to the sticker price.

Now, if we want to stick with his word, adding, then yes. But as I said before you decided to criticize my post since I am too "new." That is a tautology that gets us nowhere.

Further, this is absolutely ridiculous:

I do not want to see more RAM from Apple. Apple way overcharges for RAM and IMO MPs need more than 2 GB anyway, so I prefer adding third party RAM, specifically OWC.

Followed by:

Bigger standard drive means more money on the sticker price.

This is again just wrong. More RAM is a necessary evil for a few reasons, one being that 512MB FB-DIMMs are on their way out and thus they will become limited and more expensive. To use OWC as an example, they were selling 512MB configs for the Mac Pro. And they were more expensive. OWC has taken them off their main Mac Pro page . Why? Low availability and too expensive when compared to the other options. 2x2GB = $217.99, 8x512MB = $379.00.

Now, for the bigger hard drive comment. Wrong. In 2006, that may have been true. In 2007, it isn't. Lets for the sake of argument say this is true. That would mean that the new iMac should cost more money. I mean, it was completely refreshed. Bigger HD, faster CPU. But, it doesn't. So, there goes that argument. For more evidence look at the other products that have been refreshed with bigger HDs but somehow magically retained the same price.

If Sierras arguments were in anyway true, new computers would just build in price on top of the old ones. Meaning we would have what? Million dollar computers now? And we would get crap configurations for outrageous prices only to then add our own stuff.

Now, if he wants to say, leave it the same but drop the price. That is different. However, it is just not possible. 512MB DIMMs just won't be a reality for much longer. What would you rather buy for $2499?

2 x 2.66 Woodcrest
2 x 512MB (1GB)
250GB HD
7300GT

or

2 x 2.80 Harpertown (Octo core)
2 x 1GB (2GB)
320/500GB HD
8x00GT? (probably 8600GT)

I am going to have to go with the later. You all are more than welcome to buy the former since that seems to be what you demand.

[SierraDragon]

sune-

You seem to misunderstand my comments. Let me restate and hopefully adequately simplify:

I agree that in general folks buying MP towers should put more than 2 GB in them. However there are many buyers who for various reasons must stay below a certain initial purchase price point (corporate policy, cash flow, ease of "upgrade/maintenance" expenditures as compared to "new purchase" expenditures, etc.). And there are many others like the example below who need max capacities and will be discarding Apple's original RAM and/or hard drive anyway.

Generally each marginal componentry increase in a product costs more. E.g. it will cost Apple more to put 4x1GB or 2x2GB RAM in a MP tower than to put 2x1 GB in a MP tower; it will cost Apple more to put 2x2GB RAM in a MBP than to put 2x1 GB in a MBP. Apple will in the normal process of doing business mark up those added costs.

Same thing for hard drives. Generally it costs Apple more for a 500 GB drive than for a 400 GB drive, more for a 600 GB drive than for a 500 GB drive, etc. Again, Apple will in the normal cost of doing business mark up those costs. The fact that Apple may today get 500 GB for less than what 250 GB cost them 2 years ago means nothing; it still costs Apple more to buy 500 GB today than to buy 250 GB today.

Your premise that Apple just "replaces" things without associated costs makes no sense. Of course we all know that many computer components do get cheaper as time goes on. That does not change the reality that each component in the product contributes to price, and that upgrading any given component over a lesser alternative adds to price.

Obviously a few components like way undersized RAM DIMMs may actually raise in price as they evolve to become tech obsolete. In those cases typically such components simply and logically fall out of the mix.

Simple real world example: if I bought a MP tower today I might within a year want to have all 8 slots filled with 2-GB DIMMs. Apple will certainly not be putting any DIMMs larger than 1-GB sized in MPs today, so that means to max the box at 16 GB I need to throw away DIMMs Apple paid money for, marked up and charged me for. If Apple supplies 2x1-GB initially I pay for 2x1-GB while if Apple supplies 4x1-GB initially I pay for 4x1-GB. Either way I buy an8x2-GB kit from OWC, but personally I prefer not to pay Apple for any more throwaway RAM than necessary.

-Allen Wicks

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

Basic economics suggests that adding anything adds cost to the sticker price.



Thanks for the perfect example that makes my point. A pro user needs to pull out the two 1-GB DIMMs and replace them with two 2-GB DIMMs in order to max the RAM in a MBP. Personally I prefer not to pay for any more throwaway RAM than necessary.

Note that Apple always uses the cheaper smaller sized DIMMs, often a waste of slots for folks building max setups.

-Allen Wicks

Did you read the rest of my post? I said he price either stays the same, or goes down. MacBook Pros and iMacs have gone down in price while having much more standard. And some of us can't upgrade immediatly, so the extra RAM is welcome. If you were looking to buy a BMW 3 series would you complain that the 2007 comes with 300 horsepower for the same price as the 2006 with 250 horsepower? And also we said 2 gb on one chip, and yes I know Apple generally uses smaller chips, except on the iMac.

[mduell]

SierraDragon's point is that the new system would be $2200 instead of $2500 if Apple kept the RAM/disk smaller. Everyone else can't get past the fact that you get more for $2500 than you did a year ago.

Originally Posted by francklazare 

There's always tomorrow... Seriously, what one should do? Keep waiting, or purchase the current line. Would the performance improvement justify the wait? I'm a photographer, and I need a Pro for processing, cataloguing using Photoshop and Lightroom. I'm thinking of getting a Pro with the ATI Radeon X1900 XT card. Currently Apple is selling a refurbished Mac Pro Quad 3.0GHz Intel Xeon, 2GB (4 x 512MB) memory for $3300. Does it make sense for me to purchase that machine now, or wait for a new (elusive) model?

The new machine in the same price position (new or refurb) would be dual quad 3.0, twice as much RAM, 60% faster graphics, bigger hard drive, etc. I say wait, I think Apple will release before the end of the month.

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by suneohair 

I am not about to show proper respect for a post that has no worth.

I see.

Originally Posted by suneohair 

If you weren't clouded by "post count" maybe you could see past that, but apparently not.

Not post count, but post quality. His are helpful, frequent and responsive to the needs of others.

Originally Posted by suneohair 

I erased because I prefer not to deal with annoying people such as yourself.

You reveal much about yourself with statements like that.

Originally Posted by suneohair 

Economics tells us that new things get cheaper...

Royal we, royal us.

Originally Posted by suneohair 

The argument that pros want to add more is irrelevant.

No, it's not. We are graphics pros and that is most relevant to our situation. We won't keep any of the stock drives or RAM in our next Mac tower. Are you a graphics pro, or are you just arguing in theory?

Originally Posted by suneohair 

Apple wouldn't be adding another HD, they would be replacing it with one that better suits the current condition relative to where it was when the Mac Pro was released. That is the fact... But we aren't talking about adding, basic economics does not suggest that REPLACING something adds cost to the sticker price.

I can see your point regarding HDs, but more RAM does add to the cost, like it or not.

Originally Posted by suneohair 

You decided to criticize my post since I am too "new." That is a tautology that gets us nowhere.

No, I criticized your post because your contributions are small compared to Sierra Dragon's. Not post count, not time as a member (I am newer than you), but quality, responsiveness and generosity. (you also misused the word tautology, but hey, it was a grand flourish anyway)

Just listen to yourself:

Originally Posted by suneohair 

This is absolutely ridiculous:

Originally Posted by suneohair 

This is again just wrong.

Originally Posted by suneohair 

Wrong.

Originally Posted by suneohair 

we would get crap for outrageous prices.

Originally Posted by suneohair 

You all are more than welcome to buy the former since that seems to be what you demand.

If you care about making friends on this board, or anywhere for that matter, you will need a change in attitude.

Arrogance is seldom attractive.

[ballison]

hey guys, calm down...lets not get this thread locked

[Reggie Fowler]

I don't care if Apple releases the new Mac Pro's this month or in January. What's important is that the computer ships with a blu-ray burner or HD-DVD burner. More and more of us are purchasing HD camera's. Apple needs to be one step ahead of the competition (who have included said burner in their computers already).

I also hope Apple has new monitors.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler 

I also hope Apple has new monitors.

Actually I was wondering that was part of the problem why we haven't seen new MPs yet. Apple might have been planning to upgrade the screens alongside the new MP. And it's not like they haven't had supply issues with new (LED backlit) screens this year. Just a wild guess.

[MarkLT1]

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler 

I don't care if Apple releases the new Mac Pro's this month or in January. What's important is that the computer ships with a blu-ray burner or HD-DVD burner. More and more of us are purchasing HD camera's. Apple needs to be one step ahead of the competition (who have included said burner in their computers already).

Ahh, lest you forget- Steve said at the last keynote, that those of us who want or need physical/optical media for our video, as opposed to just sharing it in blocky/choppy flash on Youtube, are behind the times. Didn't you hear? HD is so 2006 (or was 2004 the "year of HD") for apple? The new wave is tiny resolution, over compressed, streamed video that you can watch via your AppleTV or save to watch on your huge iPod screen. Bonus points for watching it on your iPhone while driving and making a phone call.

[goMac]

Everything looks good for a launch tomorrow. 10.5.1 is being finalized, ATI is launching the Radeon 3800 tomorrow...

[Bigfoot]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Everything looks good for a launch tomorrow. 10.5.1 is being finalized, ATI is launching the Radeon 3800 tomorrow...

Forever optimistic...!

[eggman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Everything looks good for a launch tomorrow. 10.5.1 is being finalized, ATI is launching the Radeon 3800 tomorrow...

Yes, Mars goes retrograde in Gemini tomorrow.
That definitely seals the deal.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Bigfoot 

Forever optimistic...!

Well, I think there is no way Apple is going to wait until Macworld. Last we heard, Apple was getting all of the Xeons at launch. So we're supposed to assume Apple is taking all the Xeons at launch, but they're waiting until January to launch? Makes absolutely no sense at all.

(Plus Apple's last updates were on a Thursday)

[Aegis]

I think I've lost all sense of certainty about MP updates. It's been logical and reasonable to expect an update for so long, that now I wouldn't be surprised if they kept their depravation streak going a while longer.

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by Aegis 

I think I've lost all sense of certainty about MP updates. It's been logical and reasonable to expect an update for so long, that now I wouldn't be surprised if they kept their depravation streak going a while longer.

Guaranteed. Should be able to get a heck of a deal on a refurb soon.

[bballe336]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Everything looks good for a launch tomorrow. 10.5.1 is being finalized, ATI is launching the Radeon 3800 tomorrow...

I'm so excited for another piece of ATi garbage!

Anyways I hope they launch the new machines soon.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by bballe336 

I'm so excited for another piece of ATi garbage!

Anyways I hope they launch the new machines soon.

I doubt the 3800 will be a top tier GPU, but it would be a good entry level GPU. They're launching at a $200 price point iirc.

[bballe336]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I doubt the 3800 will be a top tier GPU, but it would be a good entry level GPU. They're launching at a $200 price point iirc.

Currently nvidia is making sub $200 cards that far out perform ATi cards that are nearly twice the price. ATi hasn't made anything that would be worth buying over an nvidia in a long time.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by goMac 

ATI is launching the Radeon 3800 tomorrow...

And with any luck, Apple will avoid it like the plague. 8800GT all the way...

Originally Posted by goMac 

Well, I think there is no way Apple is going to wait until Macworld. Last we heard, Apple was getting all of the Xeons at launch.

Complete exaggeration, IMO.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler 

I don't care if Apple releases the new Mac Pro's this month or in January. What's important is that the computer ships with a blu-ray burner or HD-DVD burner. More and more of us are purchasing HD camera's. Apple needs to be one step ahead of the competition (who have included said burner in their computers already).

You are correct that video and DSLR folks badly need higher capacity optical drives. And there is precedent for what you request (Superdrives introduction), but at this point the format wars are by no means resolved. Hopefully Apple picks a format and makes it available relatively cheaply like they did with Superdrives (market price was $1000+ and Apple charged +$500 CTO IIRC).

-Allen Wicks

[goMac]

Originally Posted by bballe336 

Currently nvidia is making sub $200 cards that far out perform ATi cards that are nearly twice the price. ATi hasn't made anything that would be worth buying over an nvidia in a long time.

The 3800 can't outperform the 8800, but it should be able to outperform NVidia's lower end stuff...

Originally Posted by mduell 

Complete exaggeration, IMO.

I'd believe it. Apple got all of the last generation of Xeons at launch. It's believable that the same would apply to this generation also. It would also explain why Intel is saying that the chips are available today, but no one else seems to be able to start selling theirs until December. The stock of Xeon's is very obviously going somewhere, and I think Apple is gobbling them up (not to mention there have been rumors from reputable sites to that effect).

[bballe336]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The 3800 can't outperform the 8800, but it should be able to outperform NVidia's lower end stuff...

Knowing what ATi has been doing recently I would not be at all surprised if the less expensive 8600gt was still faster. ATi video cards are underperforming and over priced. Even AMD's acquisition of ATi hasn't helped them to compete with nvidia.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'd believe it. Apple got all of the last generation of Xeons at launch.

Other brands were shipping the 5100 Xeons for 1.5 months before Apple even announced the Mac Pro. For the 5300 series Apple trailed the rest of the industry by 5 months. Perhaps you're confusing the issue with the Xeon X5365, which was one clockrate Apple had exclusivity on for 3 months?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by bballe336 

Knowing what ATi has been doing recently I would not be at all surprised if the less expensive 8600gt was still faster. ATi video cards are underperforming and over priced. Even AMD's acquisition of ATi hasn't helped them to compete with nvidia.

The 3850 is quite a bit faster than the 8600gt, although the Radeon 2900 still leads it in some benchmarks.

Originally Posted by mduell 

Other brands were shipping the 5100 Xeons for 1.5 months before Apple even announced the Mac Pro. For the 5300 series Apple trailed the rest of the industry by 5 months. Perhaps you're confusing the issue with the Xeon X5365, which was one clockrate Apple had exclusivity on for 3 months?

The first Mac Pro is a bit different, considering it was the first Mac Pro.

The Mac Pro is pretty much Intel's flagship workstation. The thing is designed at Intel's Oregon facility. It's pretty much as close as you can get to a workstation directly from Intel. I doubt they'd let it lag behind while others get Penryn.

The chip shortages don't make any sense either. Intel has been rolling out Penryns for the last 2-3 weeks, yet magically no one has them available. That means someone has had to have been buying up the Penryns, and again, the rumor mill has said that it has been Apple.

A release at MacWorld simply doesn't make sense. That would happen in January. Nelham is launching in June, and that is definitely a transition Apple won't want to miss out on. If you go this route, you have to believe that Apple is going to keep a Penryn Mac Pro around for only a few months which doesn't make sense. The only other option for believing they won't come out with a Penryn right now is that they'll skip Penryn altogether and just go straight for Nelham, which sounds even more ridiculous.

Penryn will be a quiet update. Pros are the target audience of Penryn, and they already know what Penryn is about. There will be no case redesign, just a motherboard refresh and a processor upgrade, along with new GPU's. Nothing that a normal consumer would care about, or require any sort of press thing.

[Jupeman]

What are Nelham's benefits?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Jupeman 

What are Nelham's benefits?

First, I did some research and it looks like Nehalem might be launching later than I thought. The Macrumors crowd seems to think it'll come out at WWDC next year, but it looks like it might be later than that. I don't put much faith in the Macrumors forum anyway...

Regardless, Nehalem has:
• DDR3
• 3X the bandwidth of Penryn
• Octocore chips
• Another die shrinkage

[Simon]

IIRC all we know about the Nehalem launch is that it will be in the second half of 2008.

Here's some features we can expect from it:
- 45nm die (like Penryn)
- will feature 4 cores on a single die with shared cache (this is why we will then get octo-core CPUs when they put two of these dies on one MCM)
- leverages 4-issue Intel Core micro architecture technology
- simultaneous multithreading (Intel marketing calls it "Hyper-threading Technology")
- low latency memory controller <- this is really good for the MP
- multi-level shared cache architecture
- performance-enhanced dynamic power management (just as a reminder, a single X5482 Penryn draws 150 W)
- fully unlocks Intel 45nm Hi-K silicon process benefits
- TYLERSBURG chipset
- QuickPath Interconnect system architecture, formerly "Common System Interface" (basically it's Intel's answer to AMD's HyperTransport)

[bballe336]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The 3850 is quite a bit faster than the 8600gt, although the Radeon 2900 still leads it in some benchmarks.

The 3850 hasn't been benchmarked by anyone yet, it was just released this morning as far as I can tell.

[MallyMal]

Listen, y'all wake me up when Apple actually does something. Wake me up before you go, go.

[Reggie Fowler]

If Apple releases a new MacPro this November, December, or January and then updates again in late 2008 with the new Nelham processor....it would be a devastating blow to those who go out and purchase now. if that's the case, i would rather wait for Nelham. Seems like a major upgrade!

And the comment a few posts ago about Apple not updating the optical drives to blu-ray or HD-dvd burners, and rather favoring people sharing on YouTube or AppleTV.......that's just crazy talk! you think i would want to video stuff in high def and then just transfer it to a crappy AppleTV to display on my TV? The video quality on those is embarrassing. I am one of many who are ashamed to have even purchased one.

plus, if i want to share it with friends and family......i want it on a disc.

[MarkLT1]

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler 

And the comment a few posts ago about Apple not updating the optical drives to blu-ray or HD-dvd burners, and rather favoring people sharing on YouTube or AppleTV.......that's just crazy talk! you think i would want to video stuff in high def and then just transfer it to a crappy AppleTV to display on my TV? The video quality on those is embarrassing. I am one of many who are ashamed to have even purchased one.

plus, if i want to share it with friends and family......i want it on a disc.

That post was mine, and it was some tongue-in-cheek "humor" that I wouldn't be surprised at all to see come true with the way Apple has been going lately. (On a side note- I agree 100% with your views on HD-DVD, etc..)

Apple has begun the process of neutering products for the sake of "ease of use". Even if "ease of use" means you can't do half of what you used to be able to do. Take a look at iMovie '08, or the new leopard dock/stacks. And Steve did make a comment at the last keynote that optical media was old fashioned, and online sharing was the way of the future. Comments like that scare me, as when Jobs decides he likes something, no matter how much it alienates users, it happens.

Then again, we all know how important Pro users are to Apple (if they even remember us). So maybe staying "behind the times" is a good thing in that we can keep our optical drives.. we might just be waiting for an upgrade for another year.

[dantewaters]

See the only issue with apple making a new processor in '08
Would be if they do a major overhaul of case and system specs.

I would love the best and most advanced system, but to be bleeding
edge isn't for me... I just choose the system I need at that point and close
my eyes till my needs increase.

Lets see what November has in store.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by bballe336 

The 3850 hasn't been benchmarked by anyone yet, it was just released this morning as far as I can tell.

Reviewers got their hands on it early. It's certainly not ATI's finest, but it looks like a good entry level GPU.

ATI Radeon HD 3850 - first benchmarks! | News | Custom PC
http://movies.custompc.co.uk/cpc/images/3850results.gif

(Looks like Apple is still pushing out updates today. Final Cut Express 4 was this morning.)

[eggman]

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler 

If Apple releases a new MacPro this November, December, or January and then updates again in late 2008 with the new Nelham processor....it would be a devastating blow to those who go out and purchase now. if that's the case, i would rather wait for Nelham. Seems like a major upgrade!

It wouldn't be a devastating blow: it would be business as usual. The state of the art is constantly advancing, and if one defers purchases based on the more powerful technology coming around the corner next cycle, then one never makes a purchase... because there's always more powerful tech coming down the line.

Having said that, no one wants to buy a system that's looking long in the tooth and overpriced today if tomorrow (literally, not figuratively) the better price/performance solution will be available... not if you can avoid it. And that's the situation with the Mac Pros right now. I've been waiting a couple of months with a G5 that's wheezing and sputtering, holding out for the new models.

And when/if I am able to pull the trigger on purchasing it, I'll probably be thrilled with it for the next 2-4 years, despite mo' betta' gear being available. At least that's been the pattern for my computer purchases for the past 20 years.

[SierraDragon]

What eggman said.

-Allen Wicks

[stwf]

While I appreciate the informed views of the members of this forum, a quick check has the 'a new mac pro is around the corner' posts starting sometime in Mid-July. So it's clear no one really knows when the upgrade will occur.
Personally I'm using a early model G5 and have been dying to upgrade, but I'm hoping for a new form factor as much as new processors. The gigantic aluminum enclosures are a throwback to the G5's need for 7 fans or something. What I want is quad-core, awesome graphics card, RAM, and a huge HD in as small a package as possible.
I am space constrained so the thought of replacing my giant G5 enclosure with one equally large bu unnecessary is just too much...