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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Cancel my mini order?

Cancel my mini order? (Page 2)
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elvis2000
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Mar 1, 2005, 12:42 PM
 
Originally posted by thebobs:
Face it, you have an issue with your mini and you want to create a crisis environment to bring attention to your issue. While this is somewhat understandable, I refuse to buy in to "Chicken Little" warnings about a product which is working perfectly for myself and several friends
Fact is, the Mini has problems. These problems should be discussed and brought forward, as Apple is apt to ignore them otherwise. I'll admit to having an agenda, which is to fight the rampant blind brand-loyalty with allows Apple some room to screw consumers on product quality (which they are doing at an increasingly alarming rate).

Apple loves consumers like you, willing to accept whatever garbage they introduce. The video system on the Mini is, in fact, garbage. This should be discussed, not ignored, if you care about the Mac at all.

Mac exists almost despite Apple's best efforts.

Elvis
     
thebobs
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Mar 1, 2005, 01:21 PM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
Fact is, the Mini has problems. These problems should be discussed and brought forward, as Apple is apt to ignore them otherwise. I'll admit to having an agenda, which is to fight the rampant blind brand-loyalty with allows Apple some room to screw consumers on product quality (which they are doing at an increasingly alarming rate).

Apple loves consumers like you, willing to accept whatever garbage they introduce. The video system on the Mini is, in fact, garbage. This should be discussed, not ignored, if you care about the Mac at all.

Mac exists almost despite Apple's best efforts.

Elvis
So I should be upset that Apple has never sent me a defective product? Thanks for proving my point.
     
hudson1
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Mar 1, 2005, 02:07 PM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
Fact is, the Mini has problems. These problems should be discussed and brought forward, as Apple is apt to ignore them otherwise. I'll admit to having an agenda, which is to fight the rampant blind brand-loyalty with allows Apple some room to screw consumers on product quality (which they are doing at an increasingly alarming rate).

Apple loves consumers like you, willing to accept whatever garbage they introduce. The video system on the Mini is, in fact, garbage. This should be discussed, not ignored, if you care about the Mac at all.

Mac exists almost despite Apple's best efforts.

Elvis
As others have stated, I too have owned several Macs and not one has ever had a hardware failure. Sorry to disappoint.

On the other hand, my Dell Latitude laptop has a big white blotch on the screen. Should I follow your lead and start a crusade against Dell?
     
elvis2000
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Mar 1, 2005, 02:30 PM
 
Originally posted by hudson1:
As others have stated, I too have owned several Macs and not one has ever had a hardware failure. Sorry to disappoint.

On the other hand, my Dell Latitude laptop has a big white blotch on the screen. Should I follow your lead and start a crusade against Dell?
Only if it is a common problem that Dell refuses to acknowledge or fix... or worse, if it was "by design".

That's the point here... that the crappy video system of the Mini is completely by design.
     
hudson1
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Mar 1, 2005, 03:26 PM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
Only if it is a common problem that Dell refuses to acknowledge or fix... or worse, if it was "by design".

That's the point here... that the crappy video system of the Mini is completely by design.
Oh, please. The white blotch problem on Dell laptop monitors is a very well known broad problem.

About the crappy mini video design... You're not making any sense to me. Did Apple intentionally make it crappy? Or do they just not care? What percent of mini owners are having a video problem? (I doubt it's a high number). Do you not think Apple will ever rectify the problem once they're certain they can apply a 100% fix?

For guidance on that last question, reference the extensive iBook repair program which no other PC maker has ever done to my knowledge otherwise all of those white blotches on Dell laptops would have taken care of by now.
     
Kyros
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Mar 1, 2005, 08:07 PM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
Only if it is a common problem that Dell refuses to acknowledge or fix... or worse, if it was "by design".

That's the point here... that the crappy video system of the Mini is completely by design.
When did Apple refuse to acknowledge or fix the mini's video problem? How about you talk to Apple about the problem, not the people here who are having none of the same problems and thus can't help you.
     
thebobs
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Mar 1, 2005, 10:40 PM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
That's the point here... that the crappy video system of the Mini is completely by design. [/B]
Hmmm, both my Mac minis work, tons of great reviews don't mention this kind of thing, store displays don't exhibit this issue? Perhaps it is "completely by design" of your crap monitor?


See how easy it is to twist stuff around and exaggerate it to make a point?
     
mbryda
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Mar 2, 2005, 10:45 AM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
The out-of-spec VESA problem is not an isolated, randonly occuring, problem. It is an issue with every Mini out of the box.
That's a pretty bold statement. You know this how? Have you personally examined every mini? Didn't think so. Don't you find it odd that none of the reviews comment on this? Even the ones where they hook it to their old perhiperals.

Also, please keep in mind that the Internet tends to make problems look worse than they are. This is mainly because people will onlly complain when they are having issues.

In the past I owned an Explorer. The engine in it was famous for making noise as it aged (didn't affect the durability but was annoying). I thought it was a huge problem (as I had one) and posts on the Explorer boards seemed to give that indication as well. So I setup a website to get more information and see if we could pressure Ford into figuring out what was wrong. Guess what? After 10 months I had under 20 "complaints". Given this engine was in many Explorers from '97 to today and Ford sells over 400k Explorers a year, I would have expected more. Not the epidemic the boards would have suggested....

Given that Apple is set to sell 900,000 Minis this quarter, I would think if it were a huge problem affecting ALL the machines as you claim some news organization would have picked up on it by now.

But whatever, you seem to have a personal grudge against Apple. That's fine, but put things into perspective.

Even Rev. A products can be fine. I have the iLamp iMac (G4/800) that was one of the first from March, 2002. Only issue was a bum drive or ram, but that happenes to every computer. Applecare took care of it, upgraded the dirve to 80GB and it's been the most reliable computer I've ever owned.
     
elvis2000
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Mar 2, 2005, 03:33 PM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:
That's a pretty bold statement. You know this how? Have you personally examined every mini? Didn't think so. Don't you find it odd that none of the reviews comment on this? Even the ones where they hook it to their old perhiperals.



??? It is a *design* flaw that effects every mini out of the box. Not a defect. A design flaw.
     
truckweb
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Mar 2, 2005, 03:50 PM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:
That's a pretty bold statement. You know this how? Have you personally examined every mini? Didn't think so. Don't you find it odd that none of the reviews comment on this? Even the ones where they hook it to their old perhiperals.

Also, please keep in mind that the Internet tends to make problems look worse than they are. This is mainly because people will onlly complain when they are having issues.
If it's just a simple defect, I can say that LOTS of people are having this defect... So I would say that this problem IS *by design*.

Many peoples on many diffrent forums are having the same problems. And the experience with Apple Support line is not that good...

Cancel your mini order? Will you use an NON-Apple LCD with DVI? If YES, you better test is first... Find a store that will allow you to bring your LCD for a test.
Truckweb.
Apple Mac mini - 1.42Ghz, 512Mb, SD, AE
     
thebobs
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Mar 2, 2005, 04:04 PM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:



??? It is a *design* flaw that effects every mini out of the box. Not a defect. A design flaw. [/B]
Then why doesn't it affect everyone?
     
truckweb
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Mar 2, 2005, 05:07 PM
 
Originally posted by thebobs:
Then why doesn't it affect everyone?
It seem to be OKAY if you have an Apple LCD. But everything else is pure luck. High resolution with DVI on LCD is not stable. Their is a bug and it needs to be corrected.

Since when a display is źnot╗ compatible with a computer?
Truckweb.
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thebobs
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Mar 2, 2005, 06:28 PM
 
Originally posted by truckweb:
It seem to be OKAY if you have an Apple LCD. But everything else is pure luck. High resolution with DVI on LCD is not stable. Their is a bug and it needs to be corrected.

Since when a display is źnot╗ compatible with a computer?
Pure luck? So every reviewer, every display in stores and numerous people who are happy with their mini are lucky? Instead of say, just a small group who are unlucky? Once again, I am not saying there isn't a problem, but it is not an epidemic. I have tried my minis on several displays (1280x1024 on DVI) with no issues, but I don't really see this as "luck". I really hope Apple can solve your problems, but (and I will repeat myself again) the hyperbole and rhetoric does not help your case.

There are a lot of new post over at Apple Discussions on the usage board from people who have received their minis over the last couple days, the response is so far very positive and many have commented they were very worried about the display issues. It is a shame when an unlucky few make such a ruckus that people worry about something that won't even impact them.
     
MrGoo
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Mar 2, 2005, 07:00 PM
 
Originally posted by thebobs:
Pure luck? I have tried my minis on several displays (1280x1024 on DVI) with no issues, but I don't really see this as "luck". I really hope Apple can solve your problems, but (and I will repeat myself again)
Since you have tested "SEVERAL" displays, would you mind listing the brand and models of these monitors? It would give us an idea of which monitors the mini is compatiable with.

-MrGoo
     
mbryda
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Mar 3, 2005, 08:45 AM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
??? It is a *design* flaw that effects every mini out of the box. Not a defect. A design flaw. [/B]
Again, you know this how? Were you in on the design of the unit? Did you run an analyzer on the output of the VGA/DVI?

Please, tell us how you know it's a defect in every Mini. Also explain how none of the reviews (who hooked up their own monitors) mention this defect. If it truly were affecting EVERY Mini surely those would have found it.
     
DrWoo
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Mar 3, 2005, 09:16 AM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:
Again, you know this how? Were you in on the design of the unit? Did you run an analyzer on the output of the VGA/DVI?

Please, tell us how you know it's a defect in every Mini. Also explain how none of the reviews (who hooked up their own monitors) mention this defect. If it truly were affecting EVERY Mini surely those would have found it.
Well know one can say for sure, but if you believe that it was apples intent to make the mini's video system produce a signal that is not within the VESA standard spec. Then yes it's not a design flaw.
     
thebobs
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Mar 3, 2005, 09:48 AM
 
Originally posted by MrGoo:
Since you have tested "SEVERAL" displays, would you mind listing the brand and models of these monitors? It would give us an idea of which monitors the mini is compatiable with.

-MrGoo
In order that I tested...

At home

NEC LCD1735 NXM (DVI)
NEC LCD1935 NXM (DVI)
NEC LCD1765-V (VGA)

At work

Sony SDM S73 (VGA)
Sony SDM X82 (DVI)
Sony MultiScan 420GS (VGA, CRT based display)
Sony MultiScan 420GS (VGA, CRT based display)
Samsung SyncMaster 173P (DVI)

and one of the new HP LCDs (VGA), the hinged model, but I don't know the number, one of the guys here ordered it for home but had it delivered to the office.

I have access to a lot of hardware (I work for a VAR and do network management for the consulting division) and I have amazingly low tolerance for bad display quality and system noise (more so than most of my co-workers). I think a lot of people tolerate poor image quality becasue the are overwhelmed with the "wow factor" of LCD form factor (in fact, I think all of the Sony LCDs I have ever used have overall poor image quality and generally lousy repsonse times). But of all the displays I tested both my Mac minis on I did not see any evidence of dim VGA output or "staticy" DVI output. Image quality was very stable across the board and comparable to the same display hooked up to a variety of other PCs and Macs. I ran through all the trouble spots including DVD and QuickTime playback, switched to a variety of desktop backgrounds and screensavers and ran a couple windows blooming test.

Serioulsy, I respect the fact you guys are having issues, and I am be no means saying that your problem should be ignored. But I am saying (again) that you guys should not paint this as an epidemic without considerably greater proof. So far we have one test from a German tech magazine/web site and a bunch of anecdotal evidence from message boards. And lets be honest, how many of the same people are posting this on numerous message boards? I can pick out 3 names in this thread who also post the same info on the Apple Discussions, so at first glance this is a huge issue, but closer inspection shows a lot of "squeaky wheel" syndrome. If you call Apple and they say it's news to them then I would question just how much of a "design" issue this is, I seriosuly doubt that anyone would tolerate this kind of thing without calling support about it. Hell, they even have a list of Apple displays that don't work with the mini on the FAQ, so I would say they tested more than you guys would like to acknowledge.

Good luck with your issue, but I seriuosly doubt you guys are convincing anyone that "Apple iz t3H sUxoRs" with all this ranting.
     
elvis2000
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Mar 3, 2005, 11:02 AM
 
Originally posted by truckweb:
If it's just a simple defect, I can say that LOTS of people are having this defect... So I would say that this problem IS *by design*.
No...

The "defect" is the DVI display corruption.

The "flawed design" is the out-of-spec VGA output, which is clearly by design and affects all Minis out of the box.
     
elvis2000
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Mar 3, 2005, 11:03 AM
 
Originally posted by thebobs:
Then why doesn't it affect everyone?
It effects everyone using the VGA out.
     
thebobs
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Mar 3, 2005, 11:06 AM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
It effects everyone using the VGA out.
Awesome, you keep repeating yourself even when proof has been presented that the issue does not affect "everyone". Your persistence is overshadowed only by your obtuseness. Rock on
     
elvis2000
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Mar 3, 2005, 11:16 AM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:
Again, you know this how? Were you in on the design of the unit? Did you run an analyzer on the output of the VGA/DVI?

I didn't, but others have tested the analog video output level to be below 530mV (below VESA standards).


Apple Support Forums

MacRumors

MacinTouch

Apple Turns

DSL Reports

etc.. etc...
     
elvis2000
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Mar 3, 2005, 11:17 AM
 
Originally posted by thebobs:
Awesome, you keep repeating yourself even when proof has been presented that the issue does not affect "everyone". Your persistence is overshadowed only by your obtuseness. Rock on
Because you are too dense to understand the meaning of "design flaw".
     
thebobs
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Mar 3, 2005, 11:23 AM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
Because you are too dense to understand the meaning of "design flaw".
Yea, clearly I am the one who lacks understanding
     
Ixion
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Mar 3, 2005, 12:05 PM
 
elvis2000, I agree with many of your points, but I'm afraid your person is almost completely devoid of tact.

Say, the discussion has long deviated from the topic, hasn't it? How about a good ol' fashion locking?
Michael J Burling
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thebobs
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Mar 3, 2005, 12:20 PM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
I didn't, but others have tested the analog video output level to be below 530mV (below VESA standards).


Apple Support Forums

MacRumors

MacinTouch

Apple Turns

DSL Reports

etc.. etc...
All of those links point to the same German web site/magazine, so that is a whopping total of ONE test.
     
FeralCat
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Mar 3, 2005, 12:32 PM
 
It's becoming apparent that MrGoo, DrWoo, elvis2000 and truckweb all seem to be the same person posting with different accounts to make it look like more people are having problems or are arguing on the side of "this is a design flaw". I hope that people aren't being taken in by this rather obvious attempt to garner attention. (And, I kinda wish the moderators would do something to prevent this kind of thing; it's annoying.)

In fact, I'm kinda hoping that the other side will realize that they're wasting their time feeding the troll. Give it up, you're right in that there seems to be a defect (as numerous people have said they acknowledge, and is to be expected with any new technical product), but elvis2000/DrWoo/MrGoo/truckweb is being an idiot probably because he doesn't have anything better to do and he hasn't found a free version of Solitaire for Mac OS X that he likes ("It doesn't feel like Solitaire on XP! It's MUCH SLOWER! It takes about a second for a click on a card to register!").

elvis2000, go away, and take your other accounts with you. Enjoy your Macs more than we enjoy hearing your drivel, which would not be hard.

By the way, I also have a Dell D600 for work with... wait for it... a white spot right in the middle of the monitor. Very distracting, as I like dark wallpapers, but I'm not going to go cry about it on some Dell forum site.
     
mbryda
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Mar 3, 2005, 12:49 PM
 
Originally posted by thebobs:
All of those links point to the same German web site/magazine, so that is a whopping total of ONE test.
That's what I saw too. And there were a few who bought new monitors and they worked perfectly fine.

Again, it's a defect in SOME Minis, Not ALL.

I especailly love the people that claim Apple is doing nothing. I'm sure Apple is aware of the issue and working on it. But, until they do, they have to acknowledge NOTHING. If they even hint it's a problem, they will get sued like there's no tomorrow. Same way with everything else - cars, other products, etc. In today's world, you have to deny everything until you have a plan to fix it.
     
mbryda
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Mar 3, 2005, 12:53 PM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
I didn't, but others have tested the analog video output level to be below 530mV (below VESA standards).
Let's put this into perspective:

Say, Apple sells 900,000 Minis this quarter (they are ont rack for that)
a 1% defect rate means 9,000 Minis have this issue. That would cause a lot of stir in newsgroups, etc. but is really quite a small percentage of units sold. IIRC, the normal "mortality rate" out of the box is around 2-3% for electronics and computers.

While it may seem like a lot from reading the web (The sky is falling), it's really not a large percentage of users.
     
elfmar1
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Mar 3, 2005, 05:29 PM
 
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This is a referral service 100% legit. I say this because I personally have used it and gotten 3 electronic items from it already so now I bring it here.. I want more... (dont we all?) So just click below..
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click this exact link, or copy and paste it into a browser:

http://www.*****************/?r=15773156
http://www.*****************/?r=15773156
     
elvis2000
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Mar 3, 2005, 05:53 PM
 
Originally posted by thebobs:
All of those links point to the same German web site/magazine, so that is a whopping total of ONE test.

I'll bow out (and I'm not posting under multiple aliases... jeez). But when you buy a new computer, have all the problems the other sites are discussing (the dim VGA, the distorted DVI), *then* have others on a support forum tell you the problems don't actually exist... it gets frustrating.

There are many others with these issues. Just check the Apple support forums. Posts started appearing literally as the Minis were shipping.

The discussion was about cancelling a mini order, and the advice was to make sure the monitor to be used was compatible (or don't plan on running in high-res with the VGA output). These were all valid suggestions, I thought? No? The mini, in fact, doesn't have any of these problems? *sigh*
     
truckweb
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Mar 4, 2005, 05:44 AM
 


Now I'm starting to understand why Pc/Win/Linux community hates the Mac community. Not much help and you get blasted quickly... So we can't speak badly of a Mac product?

If YOU don't have a problem with your mini/DVI, I'm very happy for you. But many of us ARE having problems. Are all those mini defective? Is it realy a compatibility problem with our LCD and the DVI on the mini? WE need to know. And no, i'm not using multiple nicks.

This is a very active debate even on the Apple Support Forum, so my guess is that we are NOT alone with this DVI bug.

Thanks for all your help.
Truckweb.
Apple Mac mini - 1.42Ghz, 512Mb, SD, AE
     
hudson1
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Mar 4, 2005, 08:23 AM
 
Originally posted by truckweb:
Is it realy a compatibility problem with our LCD and the DVI on the mini? WE need to know.
There have been a hundred posts on this subject by probably five people here. No one can tell you what percent of minis are affected by video problems. Clearly there are some but considering the number sold, it must be a small percentage.

If someone on this message board could tell you what the fix is, don't you think that would have been gladly offered? That's the kind of thing that goes on here all of the time. Instead, a small handful of posters have gotten all mad at the vast majority of Mac owners who've stated that they don't have any hardware problem.

If you want to be mad, call up Apple as it should have been clear to you long before now that they are the only ones who can address this. I hope it gives you comfort that Apple's track record has been pretty good in these situations, too. They haven't backed away from resolving the odd noisy iMac issue nor have they backed away from some iBook problems (applying those long after warranty coverage expired).

And since when did any Linux user take exception to Macs?
     
mbryda
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Mar 4, 2005, 09:00 AM
 
Originally posted by truckweb:
Now I'm starting to understand why Pc/Win/Linux community hates the Mac community. Not much help and you get blasted quickly... So we can't speak badly of a Mac product?
The hostility comes from someone claiming that "the sky is falling" and that every Mini Mac has these issues. Based on the #'s, neither has been proven true yet.


But many of us ARE having problems. Are all those mini defective? Is it realy a compatibility problem with our LCD and the DVI on the mini? WE need to know.
I'd bet that a small percentage of Minis are having this issue. If it is an issue, I'd get it documented with Apple ASAP. This way you have some legal standing if it becomes an ongoing issue. Not to menion that it will help Apple track the issues. If they see 50k people calling in with this issue it will cause them to take notice. However, if 5k people have it, it can easily be attributed to manufacturing errors or variances.

But no company is going to voulentarily step up and say our stuff is defective. MS sure isn't saying Windows is an insecure OS (even though it is). GM isn't in a hurrry to recall cars, netither is Toyota.

In closing, I'd say everyone with this issue, call Apple and start a case. That way they can know the magnitude of the problem!

This is a very active debate even on the Apple Support Forum, so my guess is that we are NOT alone with this DVI bug.
True, but even 500 people posting on a support website is a drop in the bucket compared to 900k Minis... See my previous Explorer post.

But, you need to let Apple know via the support lines....
     
elvis2000
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Mar 4, 2005, 01:06 PM
 
Originally posted by hudson1:
[B]

If someone on this message board could tell you what the fix is, don't you think that would have been gladly offered? [B]
Well, in fairness to all... some in the Apple Support forums are having success swaping out the Apple DVI-VGA adapter with a 3rd party device. Check over there for details.
     
jase71
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Mar 4, 2005, 06:10 PM
 
Well, for what it's worth, I'm typing this on my new Mini. Just finished popping in the 1 gig chip.

I'm using a 20" LCD, a Philips 200P, and I have none of the DVI issues mentioned. That's only anecdotal, but since it's my situation, it's the one I really care about.
     
nyarlaho
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Mar 5, 2005, 09:07 AM
 
That VGA out-of-spec thing is a red herring anyway.

Some German computer magazine measured the mini VGA output and claimed it fell below certain values. So what? This should only be worrisome if it actually translated into bad graphics performance. But I have not heard such a thing. Perhaps one report of someone complaining about a 'dim' CRT screen, but that might have to do with lotsa issues.
     
masi
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Mar 6, 2005, 07:53 AM
 
Originally posted by nyarlaho:
That VGA out-of-spec thing is a red herring anyway.

Some German computer magazine measured the mini VGA output and claimed it fell below certain values. So what? This should only be worrisome if it actually translated into bad graphics performance.
Well, that's the point. Obviously the Mini's non-standard VGA signal *does* translate to a blurred and dim image on many standard analog screens (maybe a minority, nobody knows for sure), at least at high resolutions. And there are posts of people who cannot improve this by doing a color calibration. In fact it would be strange if you were able to improve the signal quality by doing a color calibration.

In principle, anybody owning a good oszilloscope and knowing the VESA specifications should be able to check whether the signal is or isn't ok. My oszilloscope is too old for that, so I don't bother to find the specifications on the web. (My main problem is the DVI static, anyway.)

Supposed that all Minis output the same signal quality (otherwise it would be a matter of luck whether you get a good or bad exemplar), then the fact that there is only one test report of a magazine who noticed the problem tells us something about the quality of these tests. The question whether this or that software is performing well seems to be much more important than the question whether working with the machine is good for your eyes in the long run.

Markus
     
hudson1
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Mar 6, 2005, 05:58 PM
 
Originally posted by masi:
Supposed that all Minis output the same signal quality ...
I haven't seen anyone make an informed guess at whether the signal is low on all minis (but only effecting some monitors) or whether the signal is low on a few minis (and effecting all monitors).
     
jon l. dawson
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Mar 7, 2005, 09:57 PM
 
Originally posted by hudson1:
I haven't seen anyone make an informed guess at whether the signal is low on all minis (but only effecting some monitors) or whether the signal is low on a few minis (and effecting all monitors).
I'll make a guess then, and say it's the former, elvis2000 as one example said it didn't work on his first monitor but was fine on the one he replaced it with. He then returned the mini because of perceived slow web browsing, among other related reasons.
     
hudson1
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Mar 7, 2005, 10:04 PM
 
But didn't he use DVI input instead of VGA on his second monitor?
     
turtle777
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Mar 8, 2005, 11:10 AM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
It effects everyone using the VGA out.
Everyone BUT ME. I must be so exceptional !

-t
     
elvis2000
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Mar 10, 2005, 03:18 PM
 
Originally posted by jon l. dawson:
I'll make a guess then, and say it's the former, elvis2000 as one example said it didn't work on his first monitor but was fine on the one he replaced it with. He then returned the mini because of perceived slow web browsing, among other related reasons.
Not quite. On the first monitor (a Viewsonic vp201s) I had the distorted video problem (via DVI). So I switched to VGA out, which cured the distorted video but introduced the "dim analog" problem.

I switched to a Dell 2005FPW where the Mini worked fine in DVI mode. For curiosity, I tried it in VGA mode where the display was still dim, out of focus, and "washed out" - just like with the Viewsonic. But I didn't care, as DVI was working this time.

Then I returned it because after a week's use I decided it was too slow for my taste.
     
macwpg
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Mar 12, 2005, 02:19 AM
 
A design flaw would affect all mini's. A manufacturing defect would only affect a small percentage of them. So if it is indeed a design flaw, then based on what I've seen in forums it would appear that defective mac minis are the majority, where the defect is in spec vga output. Someone should let apple know that their manufacturing plants are producing such a high number of defects.
     
mbryda
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Mar 12, 2005, 05:54 PM
 
Originally posted by macwpg:
A design flaw would affect all mini's. A manufacturing defect would only affect a small percentage of them. So if it is indeed a design flaw, then based on what I've seen in forums it would appear that defective mac minis are the majority, where the defect is in spec vga output. Someone should let apple know that their manufacturing plants are producing such a high number of defects.
Again, run the #'s - 2% is considered a great defect rate. At 900k Minis, that's 18,000 Minis with issues. And also see my post about the Explorer. Just because it's a "hot" topic on the 'net doesn't mean it's widespread.
     
macwpg
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Mar 12, 2005, 07:12 PM
 
yeah, I was being sarcastic
     
elvis2000
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Mar 14, 2005, 10:15 AM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:
Again, run the #'s - 2% is considered a great defect rate. At 900k Minis, that's 18,000 Minis with issues. And also see my post about the Explorer. Just because it's a "hot" topic on the 'net doesn't mean it's widespread.
It is a design flaw. My office just ordered five of them for the Assistants in the design department. All were complaining of the "muted" appearance through the 20" CRT Sony displays. Not great for design work.
     
mbryda
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Mar 14, 2005, 09:34 PM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
It is a design flaw. My office just ordered five of them for the Assistants in the design department. All were complaining of the "muted" appearance through the 20" CRT Sony displays. Not great for design work.
Again you have no proof it's a design flaw. None whatsoever. For a design flaw it would have to rear its head on EVERY Mac Mini. Which it isn't. It could be a batch of them or something (like cars).

The important thing is to let Apple know.
     
elvis2000
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Mar 15, 2005, 02:52 PM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:
Again you have no proof it's a design flaw. None whatsoever. For a design flaw it would have to rear its head on EVERY Mac Mini. Which it isn't. It could be a batch of them or something (like cars).

The important thing is to let Apple know.
Well - specific to the DVI problem, there appears to be uniformity related to which monitors work and don't work. If it were a "defect" then it would be entirely random. Thus, a design "flaw". If your Mini works with your specific monitor, doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

http://www.freewebs.com/themagius/macintoshmini.htm
     
ryaxnb
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Mar 27, 2005, 03:36 AM
 
It's easy to overreact whnn most forum posts on certain sites like MacFixIt are troubleshooting. Just remember, most people don't have the problem. I don't for instance. Our Mac mini is connected to a VGA LCD and a VGA CRT and the problem has not affected eithier of them.
Trainiable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
Steveis... said: "What would scammers do with this info..." talking about a debit card number!
     
ryaxnb
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Mar 27, 2005, 03:39 AM
 
Originally posted by elvis2000:
The out-of-spec VESA problem is not an isolated, randonly occuring, problem. It is an issue with every Mini out of the box. Anyone that doesn't notice a dim display via VGA out is probably not used to anything better (which Apple is counting on).

JW
Look dude I use an iBook and an Athlon daily, and a VGA-connected Mac mini, hooked up to two different monitors, including one the Athlon uses via KVM. They look all about the same. The mini actually looks really good on my Dell CRT, which I got at a thrift shop.
Trainiable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
Steveis... said: "What would scammers do with this info..." talking about a debit card number!
     
 
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