[johhhn]

Mine will actually load up, and then it gives an error message (the actual program). If it's successful, you'll see a progress bar while it's flashing.

The author of the program (pc flasher) had a Mac ROM, but can't find it

Doesn't anybody here have an Mac 8500 with a PC laying around??

Originally posted by HoofHearted:

They all did the same thing, they appear to load then quit. Do these flashers give any feedback (eg success/fail dialogues) when they work correctly?

This definitely looks like it'll need to flashed with a mac rom on a PC - all the mac flasher apps just don't appear to recognise it. It seems to be some illegitimate son of a 8500 64Mb DDR that no-one's seen before (it's layout doesn't match any of the pics I've seen so far anyway).

Now I'm surrounded by PCs and Macs with PCI and AGP cards (including the Yikes that I yanked a Mac PCI card from). Time to reassemble and get on with some work and pray that a Mac ROM comes my way!

I could use the Radeon in the PC - but where would be the fun in that?

[kvonk0]

Maybe someone can give me a clue here. The link below links to the exact card I bought. I hope it works, and judging from the successful posts, I think it will. But maybe someone can guarantee for me?

http://store.yahoo.com/buyaib/atirad8564dd1.html

Oh by the way, clicking on the picture of the card gives a bigger view.

[Avon]

Thats the card. It will work.

The page does not mention the ram or clock speed. Usualy non LE cards (This one) are 275/275 But the lower priced ones such as these are 250/275..

Use the mac update flasher (250/270) and it will work like a charm... Some people say to use the origial flasher (version 123) and then use the update (126), but I belive it's a wasted step. I just flashed it with the update flasher tool.

IF you have a PC you might want stick it in there an verify its memory and clock speed as well as save the rom just in case.

As far as I know no one has ever had a problem with original ATI cards.

[dr.george]

Hi , just wanted to know if anyone flashed this card..

SAPPHIRE RADEON 8500LE, 64MB DDR, AGP, TV-OUT, OEM

link

http://www.wei.cl/catalogue/product....RAD38&ccode=TV


Thx

[ReggieX]

That one should be fine, dr. george.
Mine was an LE by Sapphire, running at 230/230, so you should be good to go with that one.

[dr.george]

Great ! Thx.. one more thing please .. can you give me the links to the files i need?

Thx

[ReggieX]

http://www.coffeehaus.com/radeon8500.html

[dr.george]

Thanks for the help ReggieX .. just ordered my ATI 8500

and 512 RAM more ..

[hutz]

Hi, after trawling through the excellent threads both here and at xlr8yourmac.com, I'm on the verge of getting a PC Radeon 8500 to flash.

However I've a question regarding the TV-out funtionality in Jaguar (assuming it flashes OK). Looking at Ati's site I've found a couple of tech notes.

As far as I can understand them, one says the MAC2TV function doesn't work on the 8500 in Jaguar. Another says it does, BUT only if the 8500 and ati driver updates were installed before updating to Jaguar.

I figure this is because previous ATI updaters (which include the necessary components) won't install under Jaguar since it already contains newer drivers than those that ATI provide on their site. Since the drivers included with Jaguar I guess are aimed at supporting Apple supplied Radeon 8500s (ie BTO ones) which don't have TV out, this function has been omitted.

The card I'm going to get is a Gigagbyte one which someone on the xlr8 forums has said they successfully flashed and the TV-out works fine (I know some cards don't seem to work). They don't say what version of OS X they were/are using though.

So, has anyone here got TV-Out working in Jaguar (10.2.1)? And if so was it working before updating to it or have you installed the card since and got it to work?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx

[Avon]

The card I'm going to get is a Gigagbyte one which someone on the xlr8 forums has said they successfully flashed and the TV-out works fine (I know some cards don't seem to work).
Thanx [/B]

If your card flashed TV out will most likley work in X. You need ATI Displays 3.0 for OS X. No one has posted it yet, and You cant get it unless you install the ATI drivers from the installer. Something I dont want to do.


I don't konw why you are going to take a risk buying a gigabyte card. Original ATI cards are the best to flash for they make the Mac Card. Price for a retail ATI 250/275 is now $85.00 I sugest you read page 9.

[reader50]

To those of you having trouble flashing, especially of the newegg card we have had so much success with ... are you trying to run the flashers from OS X? So far as I know, they have to run from 9, and everyone who flashed successfully did just that.

It seems doubtful that ATi got Sapphire to mod their card against a minor Mac flashing crowd, since it would mostly result in nonworking Sapphire cards being returned to stores. I'm thinking either the flash attempts are being made in X / Classic, or perhaps we need an OS 9 install that has not been modded by Jag for use as the Classic environment ... that last one could be a pain to arrange.

Something is certainly wrong, the newegg card and nearly every other 64 MB 8500 (LE or non-LE) was flashing just fine. Only a very small number of incompatibles had been run across.

[johhhn]

i've flashed in 9.1, 9.2.2, etc.. no classic flashing, of course

no worries though.. i should have mine working today and for those that have had problems, you should be fine after i get mine working....

Originally posted by reader50:
To those of you having trouble flashing, especially of the newegg card we have had so much success with ... are you trying to run the flashers from OS X? So far as I know, they have to run from 9, and everyone who flashed successfully did just that.

It seems doubtful that ATi got Sapphire to mod their card against a minor Mac flashing crowd, since it would mostly result in nonworking Sapphire cards being returned to stores. I'm thinking either the flash attempts are being made in X / Classic, or perhaps we need an OS 9 install that has not been modded by Jag for use as the Classic environment ... that last one could be a pain to arrange.

Something is certainly wrong, the newegg card and nearly every other 64 MB 8500 (LE or non-LE) was flashing just fine. Only a very small number of incompatibles had been run across.

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

Also things to remember that are insanely important: DO NOT PLUG IN THE MONITOR WHEN FLASHING.
This can't be stressed enough.
Heck, the first thing I did was make a minimal Extension set, then restarted with that and the flasher in the Startup Items folder.
Then remember to REBOOT WITH THE SHIFT KEY DOWN. This bypasses all the Extensions AND the Startup Items, otherwise you end up running the flasher program each and every time you reboot. Yes, I've heard people on a couple of other boards that kept forgetting to do this, even though it's been a big part of the instructions from d ay one.

Also, IIRC all the cards that worked right are OEM cards, not retail ATI-branded ones. So I certainly would not recommend buying one.

[Avon]

I just bought another card. It was an ATI original 8500 LE that runs at 250/275. This one had an LE sticker on the back. Same card, model number as the first one I got. Put it in my pc, its running at the advertised 250/275. This is a great card! I highly recomend using it over the saphire.


Here are a few updates on my how to be cheap instructions.
To find one search price watch for "

ATI Original 275 8500
and pick the cheapest one with a clock rate of 250/275 or better.

Or

ATI built by 275 8500
and pick the cheapest one with a clock rate of 250/275 or better.

[kvonk0]

Guys, I need help. This isn't working out how I planned. I got the Radeon, flashed it, and I got video. BUT, for some damn reason EVERYTHING is blurry as all hell. Illustrated in the link below. Does anyone know why this would be happening? Please, a little insight would be great.

Thanks.

http://homepage.mac.com/kvonk678/.Public/ahh.jpg

[Edit: corrected link]

[reader50]

Originally posted by kvonk0:
Guys, I need help. This isn't working out how I planned. I got the Radeon, flashed it, and I got video. BUT, for some damn reason EVERYTHING is blurry as all hell. Illustrated in the link below. Does anyone know why this would be happening? Please, a little insight would be great.

Thanks.

http://homepage.mac.com/kvonk678/.Public/ahh.jpg

kvonk0, your picture looks perfectly clear to me. Try checking the antialiasing controls at the bottom of System Preferences -> General, or some monitor adjustments.

note, I fixed your picture link in this quote.

[kvonk0]

Eh? System Prefs > General? I must be having a mind fart...

Oh now I got ya. OSX. What about OS9?

[reader50]

OS9: Control Panels -> Appearance -> Fonts tab

I posted the OSX location, because your picture showed OSX running.

[nerd]

Got my card from http://www.enetshoponline.com/atirad85ddr61.html working today. I put in the card and booted up with my Rage 128 still pluged in (no monitor connected to the 8500) so I could see what I was doing. Flash the card with the Restore then the 8500 Updater (unmodified one). Shutdown, pluged in the monitors and got picture.

Everything is working fine running two monitors. The card that came was a LE version acording to the sticker on the back but it's flashed with 275 memory, 250 core. I just got done playing Quake III at 1024 res, all settings maxed out and it doesn't lag at all. Same goes for Urban Terror.

Has anyone got the ATI October update and applied it yet? Just wondering how it applied. I just go the card installed and running today so I'm going to wait a couple days before I update the drivers.

Brad

[johhhn]

duuuuuuuuuuuuuude! you stalking me or what!?!!

heehehehehhehe

(:

Originally posted by nerd:
Got my card from http://www.enetshoponline.com/atirad85ddr61.html working today. I put in the card and booted up with my Rage 128 still pluged in (no monitor connected to the 8500) so I could see what I was doing. Flash the card with the Restore then the 8500 Updater (unmodified one). Shutdown, pluged in the monitors and got picture.

Everything is working fine running two monitors. The card that came was a LE version acording to the sticker on the back but it's flashed with 275 memory, 250 core. I just got done playing Quake III at 1024 res, all settings maxed out and it doesn't lag at all. Same goes for Urban Terror.

Has anyone got the ATI October update and applied it yet? Just wondering how it applied. I just go the card installed and running today so I'm going to wait a couple days before I update the drivers.

Brad

[SirCastor]

I just loaded the October ATI update, with my flashed retail 8500 64mb. Everything seems to be working shipshape. I have not yet tried working with a TV or a second monitor, but DVD playback is fine, everything seems to be running as well as it was before the update. I'll report later if I see anything else.

-Aaron

[Avon]

Can somone please post the October ATI update. The download still does not work here. Anyone else on the east coast download it yet???

I overclocked the other 250/275 (LE) card I got today in a PC. Took it up to 300/325.
Man, best 86 bucks I ever spent!

The ram says ends with a -33. Does this mean 3.3 NS? I have see other pics of cards that end in -36, and talk about 3.6 ns ram. Is this correct??

Either way, I HIGHLY recomend this card.

[kvonk0]

Hey guys. I'm still having the same problem with fuzzy/blurry picture. It's odd because before installing the Radeon, I had a GeForce 2 MX. There was no blurriness with that card. Could it be that my refresh rates on this monitor dont support the Radeon? It seems when I set a higher refresh rate, it gets fuzzier... its very frustrating. Any reports of this?

Help please.

[Avon]

Update: (In case anyone cares)

The ATI card I posted before comes with 3.3ns Hynix ram. I really dont know what the diffrence between this card (LE) and the retail card other than it comes clocked at 250/275 instead of 275/275 and is 40$ more.

[kvonk0]

Oh man. This is horrible. Right now, everything is extrememly fuzzy. I have to squint to read the text. I believe it is a refresh problem with my monitor (because if any of you look at the pic I posted above, it will look fine to you, but fuzzy to me). How can this be? Whenever I insert my GeForce 2 and boot, everything is clear. But with the Radeon, it's all very fuzzy. Perhaps I used the wrong ROM Updater? I know there are several floating around with different clocks. Does anyone have links to all of them?

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[ReggieX]

kvonk0, try a couple of different resolutions and/or you may need to adjust your monitor settings.

FWIW, I started downloading the October update using wget in the Terminal (which will auto restart if the connection drops), and it took over 2 hours. I think every single Apple user in the universe is trying to download this!

[Avon]

Finaly got the update and now have all thoes ATI utilities...

Question about TV out..

Should there be a tv out icon on the ATI displays panel in os x? Do I have to connect a tv first and then boot up for something ot happen??
How do you get the TV out function to work?
Arggg.. Stil have to find my S-Vid to rca adapter.

Thanks.

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

IIRC, in OS 9 you had to have the S-video connector plugged in to the TV when it starts up / reboots for that to work.
I don't have anything with S-video In, so I can't try it.

[kvonk0]

I tried some different resolutions, and refresh rates, and nothing seems to help. The screen loses fuzz anywhere below 1024x768, but this is only because everything gets so much bigger. It really is ridiculous. When I put my GeForce back in and run it, everything is very clear. So what's the deal? Has anyone seen reports like this before?

Thanks for the help.

[dr.george]

Hi ,.. i recently bought a Sapphire ATI 8500LE OEM and flashed it with the OS 9 method.. now here it is .. before i had an Asus geforce 2 MX-400 32 MB (flashed to 235/235) .. and now with th 8500 i saw no performance improvement at all .. RTCW runs even worse ...

note: the card is flashed to 230/230

any ideas ?

Thx.

[johhhn]

what kind of G4 do you have?

it could be too slow to notice any difference.....

Originally posted by dr.george:
Hi ,.. i recently bought a Sapphire ATI 8500LE OEM and flashed it with the OS 9 method.. now here it is .. before i had an Asus geforce 2 MX-400 32 MB (flashed to 235/235) .. and now with th 8500 i saw no performance improvement at all .. RTCW runs even worse ...

note: the card is flashed to 230/230

any ideas ?

Thx.

[dr.george]

Originally posted by johhhn:
what kind of G4 do you have?

it could be too slow to notice any difference.....

i have a G4 450 with 960 RAM and 50 GB....(gigabit model)..i dont think that the agp 2x has anything to do with it... at least it would show some improvement but the was none...

[johhhn]

unfortunately, that's the problem.. your 450 can't spit out the data fast enough

Originally posted by dr.george:


i have a G4 450 with 960 RAM and 50 GB....(gigabit model)..i dont think that the agp 2x has anything to do with it... at least it would show some improvement but the was none...

[reader50]

Regarding the R8500 speeding up older Sawtooth systems, my system is a G4 350. After the upgrade, I noticed that UT was "smoother" (fewer dropped frames) at higher resolutions. Also, Q3A could be played at 16x12, though I play Q3A seldom enough to not know if that was true before or not.

I still have my Rage 128 Pro, and have been meaning to do some before / after benchmarking. This weekend, hopefully.

[jasonxz]

I recently flashed a PC AGP Radeon 8500 64MB to use in my G4/350; it worked well and games (like Max Payne) seemed to run faster, but now my display prefs thinks I have another monitor attached. This is rather aggravating because the cursor can be scrolled off screen into the ghost monitor.

[OsakaBill]

Originally posted by Dan Szwarc:
That's funny. That means that the Radeon Firmware update for Mac didn't check to see if it was a mac card, but instead overwrote the firmware with the Mac Rom. Does that mean that the cards are basically identical?

How much is a PC Radeon 8500?

I am no expert, but as far as I know, the cards are identical in every way save for the firmware. The card makers charge more because they say it costs more to write firmware for the Mac.

If I did not have an ADC equipped CRT monitor, I would go out and buy a cheap PC graphics card and flash it for my G4.

[ReggieX]

SWEET!

I reflashed my LE to 230/230 like I did before, and installed the new October drivers. The display corruption on wake from deep sleep (in 10.2.1) is gone, as far as I can tell. So, yes, the new drivers are a MUST install.

Note to all: before installing new video drivers, quit all apps except Terminal, type the following:
sudo rm /System/Library/Extensions.kextcache
then quit the Terminal, run the drivers installer, and immediately reboot.

[kvonk0]

Does anyone know the steps/process for converting a flashed Radeon 8500 BACK to PC? I need it for an upcoming LAN event, in which I'm taking my PC.

Thanks.

[johhhn]

you need the original ROMs and a pci video card for the PC (non ATI brand)

Originally posted by kvonk0:
Does anyone know the steps/process for converting a flashed Radeon 8500 BACK to PC? I need it for an upcoming LAN event, in which I'm taking my PC.

Thanks.

[Avon]

Originally posted by johhhn:
you need the original ROMs and a pci video card for the PC (non ATI brand)

The pci card can be an ati card. flashrom distinguishes between slots.
You really dont need a second card if your computer boots without a working video card. All you need to do is use flashrom blind.

I dont know what pcs are able to boot without a video card if any. Im prettty sure mine cannot.

[johhhn]

Allow me to clarify-- you need an ATI card that is NOT a 7500...

trust me..

lol

Originally posted by Avon:


The pci card can be an ati card. flashrom distinguishes between slots.
You really dont need a second card if your computer boots without a working video card. All you need to do is use flashrom blind.

I dont know what pcs are able to boot without a video card if any. Im prettty sure mine cannot.

[kvonk0]

Well then where can I find the ROMs?

[Sarc]

Originally posted by johhhn:
unfortunately, that's the problem.. your 450 can't spit out the data fast enough

Today I tried dr. george's 8500 on my PowerMac 733.
Specs are 733, 640 RAM, 80 GB 7200 RPM HDD.

Now, Performance gain was noticeable for all games, yet it' behavior was quite erratic.
For example, SoF II experienced a nice performance gain, yet WarCraft III was barely touched.

However the performance gain was not the one expected.
A card with a much more respectable chip and twice the memory of the GF2MX, plus DDR Memory, I thought a much higher framerate.


Sarc

[johhhn]

Kvonk-
do you have a PCI video card to put in your PC?

email me

Originally posted by kvonk0:
Well then where can I find the ROMs?

[johhhn]

What settings do you have your WC3 at?

I wanted a faster card mainly for this game and so I'm quite interested in your setup..

Previously, with the geforce2mx and my dual 533s, I could only play the game @ 640 res with EVERYTHING turned down..

With the 8500 I can play at 800res with stuff turned up but it'll still be laggy sometimes.. 1v1 solo games.. It's not *bad*, but not as good as the same card in my friend's dual 867s which I tested out tonight.. 1024res with everything on, I could do a 2v2 game and not experience a bit of lag in big battles..

In addition--- his geforce4mx card seems to be able to run fine @ 1024 with everthing bumped up also.. I haven't tried the 8500 @ 1280 on his machine yet, so no idea if WC3 is playable at those settings on his machine..

OH ya- also.. I know it's not a really good benchmark, but the Marine screensaver shows FPS and my dual 533 with 8500 @ 1280x1024 res gets around 151fps (OS X.1.5, btw) and my friend's 867 with stock geforce4mx card gets around 90 and with the 8500 card gets around 157 under 10.2.1. Which almost leads me to believe that WCIII is more cpu bound than anything.... grrrrrr

Originally posted by Sarc:


Today I tried dr. george's 8500 on my PowerMac 733.
Specs are 733, 640 RAM, 80 GB 7200 RPM HDD.

Now, Performance gain was noticeable for all games, yet it' behavior was quite erratic.
For example, SoF II experienced a nice performance gain, yet WarCraft III was barely touched.

However the performance gain was not the one expected.
A card with a much more respectable chip and twice the memory of the GF2MX, plus DDR Memory, I thought a much higher framerate.


Sarc

[raskol]

Anymore feedback on the October ATI update and these cards? I am waiting to hear any bad news before I install the update.

[dfiler]

Originally posted by jasonxz:
I recently flashed a PC AGP Radeon 8500 64MB to use in my G4/350; it worked well and games (like Max Payne) seemed to run faster, but now my display prefs thinks I have another monitor attached. This is rather aggravating because the cursor can be scrolled off screen into the ghost monitor.

Well then. There is good news for you!

Guess what. You're currently running on only half of the radeon's RAM. When in dual monitor mode, each display gets 32MB allocated to it. You can verify this using the ATI Displays utility.

The only way to undetect a display (return to single monitor mode) is to restart with only one monitor and no S-Video cord plugged into the card.

I ran into this problem as well. I wanted to use the TV out for gaming on my TV. Even though the radeon 8500 has TV out, I reverted to using my external scan converter. It sits inline between the computer and monitor, generating a S-video signal off of the the passthrough XVGA signal. Now I have TV out without having to cut my video memory in half. Also, the external converter supports resolutions up to 1024x768.

[Sarc]

Originally posted by johhhn:
What settings do you have your WC3 at?


Previously, with the geforce2mx and my dual 533s, I could only play the game @ 640 res with EVERYTHING turned down..

With the 8500 I can play at 800res with stuff turned up but it'll still be laggy sometimes.. 1v1 solo games.. It's not *bad*, but not as good as the same card in my friend's dual 867s which I tested out tonight.. 1024res with everything on, I could do a 2v2 game and not experience a bit of lag in big battles..

Let's see ... I usually play on single player at 1024x768 with my shitty GF2MX 32MBSDRAM OEMCrap with everything turned to high, yet framerates are ... laggy.

With the 8500 it was better but no that much better, surely helped though. Unfortunately we didn't have time to go online for a big battle (we where benching 3 different cards here with dr. george).

Anyway, the most noticeable change was in FPShooters ... SoF II was playable @ 1280x1024 with the higher settings (beeaaauuutiful game, sniping people's head off was amazing on the ).

Beacause of this irregular behavior I wonder if the ROM could be half-baked.
Some time ago I remember reading somewhere (if no here then @ xlr8yourmac), that some people where having trouble with the OS 9 flash method, but the PC method was perfect ... aparently it flashed OK, but the final ROM size inside the 8500 was different that a normal Mac ROM, leading into erratic behavior.

Framerates where higher than the GF2MX, alright, but not impressive high either.

Anyone ?

Sarc

(Specs btw. are 733, 640 RAM, AGP 4X, 133 MHz BUS)

[johhhn]

Interesting.. judging from what you said, WC3 is starting to seem CPU limited.. arggg which would explain why the 8500 isn't much faster for you on yours (although, I would bet there is a noticeable difference compared to the geforce2mx)

for what it's worth, i tested my machine and my friends with an actual 'mac' 8500 card.. i still haven't extracted the ROMs yet to flash my PC 8500 card..

my machine is dual 533s with 1.5Gs ram, 10.1.5, 133 bus..
my friend's is the new dual 867s with 768M ram and 10.2.1..

Originally posted by Sarc:



Let's see ... I usually play on single player at 1024x768 with my shitty GF2MX 32MBSDRAM OEMCrap with everything turned to high, yet framerates are ... laggy.

With the 8500 it was better but no that much better, surely helped though. Unfortunately we didn't have time to go online for a big battle (we where benching 3 different cards here with dr. george).

Anyway, the most noticeable change was in FPShooters ... SoF II was playable @ 1280x1024 with the higher settings (beeaaauuutiful game, sniping people's head off was amazing on the ).

Beacause of this irregular behavior I wonder if the ROM could be half-baked.
Some time ago I remember reading somewhere (if no here then @ xlr8yourmac), that some people where having trouble with the OS 9 flash method, but the PC method was perfect ... aparently it flashed OK, but the final ROM size inside the 8500 was different that a normal Mac ROM, leading into erratic behavior.

Framerates where higher than the GF2MX, alright, but not impressive high either.

Anyone ?

Sarc

(Specs btw. are 733, 640 RAM, AGP 4X, 133 MHz BUS)

[Rabid Duck]

I'm having a similar problem to a few others on this board. My flashed radeon 8500 thinks there's a second monitor attached. The solution I've seen proposed is to unplug the S-video cable, as tv-out acts as a 2nd monitor.

However, I do not have the video cable attached, nor is a DVI monitor plugged in. The *only* cord plugged into the card is the one from my monitor into the VGA port, and yet my comp acts as if there's a second monitor.

This problem occurs with both really old ATI drivers (pre-April) and the October ATI drivers. My card is an OEM 8500 (not LE) running at 275/250. Any suggestions?