Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > The Hillary Honeypot

The Hillary Honeypot (Page 3)
Thread Tools
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 08:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I am so far beyond laughing out loud when Badkosh accuses anyone at all of being biased at all. But then he's just operating like other conservatives, completely delusional and accusing others of their own gargantuan failings.
Except you don't observe very well. You spend most of your time trying to tell us what we've observed with your own faulty observational skills and wacky biases. You live WHERE? Not in DC? I DO live in the DC metro area and observe a lot you don't...for some reason.
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 08:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Yes and no. Literally. Yes I consider them morally inferior (we both know I can justify this view as easily as breathing too) but no it doesn't undermine my point at all.

Shouldn't we both consider each other morally inferior? Isn't that how politics is meant to work? Everyone thinks they are right? If we both agree that liberals are morally superior, then everyone should be voting for them as their moral leaders at least, no?

So I've demonstrated quite comprehensively that despite their verbal claims to moral superiority, conservative actions very clearly indicate that they know liberals to be morally superior. And as we all know, actions speak louder than words. What a shame they can't admit this to themselves and the world and they could just pack up and go home and leave the morally superior to get on with things.
OPINIONS stated as fact.
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 09:22 AM
 
Liberals are morally superior and more tolerant? There are several business owners here in the US that say differently. They have experienced this "tolerance for someone who is different" This is the dictatorship of relativism we were warned of.
45/47
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 09:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
OPINIONS stated as fact.
This is like your entire shtick.

Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Liberals are morally superior and more tolerant? There are several business owners here in the US that say differently. They have experienced this "tolerance for someone who is different" This is the dictatorship of relativism we were warned of.
Intolerance of intolerance is the best you can come up with?
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Liberals are morally superior?
These days, yes. Full stop.

- Interested in providing universal health care: check
- Interested in limiting predatory financial practices against things like student loan debt: check
- Interested in protecting the environment and concerned about the well-being of future generations: check
- Interested in not letting campaigns/parties being controlled by the wealthy elite: check
- Interested in increasing the minimum wage so that those struggling and desperate for some sort of work can at least survive: check
- Interested in looking at gun control in the interest to reduce the gun homicide rate: check

Where would Jesus stand on these positions? Something tells me it would not be:

- Interested in providing universal health care: why should my hard-earned dollars go to helping lazy people who couldn't help but get sick?
- Interested in limiting predatory financial practices against things like student loan debt: I heart bullying
- Interested in protecting the environment and concerned about the well-being of future generations: why would I care about this planet? Facts? Pttthhh..
- Interested in not letting campaigns/parties being controlled by the wealthy elite: it's a dog eat dog world
- Interested in increasing the minimum wage so that those struggling and desperate for some sort of work can at least survive: lazy bums so busy working their crappy job and are unwilling to find another job and/or relocate!
- Interested in looking at gun control in the interest to reduce the gun homicide rate: freedom!!


They are not perfect, you can respond with a number of counter-examples, but these are some preeeetttyy big issues, and liberals are on the moral side of these issues.
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 10:42 AM
 
No, they are on the Caesar side of those listed. We want to apply the principals of solidarity while also applying subsidiarity. Those who are closest the the issue are the ones who can best deal with it. That starts with the family, then moves up. Caesar should be the last resort, not the first. Did you know the vast majority of the hurricane relief is not coming from Caesar, but from faith based groups? The Society of Saint Vincent De Paul is providing furniture to those affected in Texas?

You can help if you want.
https://ihradio.com/2017/09/support-...e-heart-radio/

Through their House in a Box® Program the Society of St. Vincent De Paul provide new household items for families who have lost everything as a result of natural disasters and who are forced into situational poverty. The “House in a Box®” gives dignity to families in crisis as it gives them a new start and fresh start.

*Each “Box” includes all brand new items: beds (mattress, boxspring, frame), dressers, linens for each bed, sofa, dining table and chairs, kitchen utensils, glassware, pots and pans, and much more.
BTW, SVDP, does not ask for baptismal certificates before providing help.
You can also help provide an education to kids in Uganda.
https://ihradio.com/2017/09/letters-from-uganda/

Yes, we want to do those thing that promote the common good. We just don't believe it should come from Caesar, but begin with those closest who can best deal with it. Liberals look to Caesar first because Caesar knows what's best.
45/47
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 11:02 AM
 
If conservatives gave up their general opposition/oppression of women, LGBTQ folks transgendered people and non-white people, and retreated to calmly stating their preferences against abortion and for prayer and intelligent design in public schools instead of trying to legislate all that, all of which they would do if they were just the champions of the constitution that they claim to be, then they could make a much stronger argument of idealogical and maybe even moral equality. Theres still the issue of how they treat the sick and the poor but there is a case for that being a political/economic issue as well. Ultimately this is where they will end up, but they can't get there yet because without the racist and religious loony bases, they'd never get elected again. At least not right now.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 11:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
No, they are on the Caesar side of those listed. We want to apply the principals of solidarity while also applying subsidiarity. Those who are closest the the issue are the ones who can best deal with it. That starts with the family, then moves up. Caesar should be the last resort, not the first. Did you know the vast majority of the hurricane relief is not coming from Caesar, but from faith based groups? The Society of Saint Vincent De Paul is providing furniture to those affected in Texas?

You can help if you want.
https://ihradio.com/2017/09/support-...e-heart-radio/


BTW, SVDP, does not ask for baptismal certificates before providing help.
You can also help provide an education to kids in Uganda.
https://ihradio.com/2017/09/letters-from-uganda/

Yes, we want to do those thing that promote the common good. We just don't believe it should come from Caesar, but begin with those closest who can best deal with it. Liberals look to Caesar first because Caesar knows what's best.



Weak.

It must make you feel incredibly conflicted that the political party you are ideologically committed to does not complement your faith these days, at all.
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 11:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Weak.

It must make you feel incredibly conflicted that the political party you are ideologically committed to does not complement your faith these days, at all.
No, because I'm not ideologically committed to one party. Meanwhile, the other party is the antithesis of my faith.
45/47
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 11:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I don't think my point is getting across.

Let me put this in exaggerated terms.

Person A is Gandhi, minus all the pervy shit. Person B is Hitler.

"Person A is held to a higher moral standard than person B."

Yes, because person B is Hitler.

"Person B holds person A to moral standards they do not hold themselves to."

Yes, because person B is Hitler.

"Person B indicts person A."

Why do I care what Hitler thinks?


I guess the question is, does Hitler know or believe himself to be morally inferior to Gandhi? Aren't we all supposed to think we are the good guys? If thats not how it works then I just don't know what to say. Do conservatives know they are wrong/bad/immoral/evil? I'm sure some of them must realise when they are being selfish but beyond that?

Surely Hitler said "Lets kill the Jews because its the right thing for us to do!" rather than "I know its a bit controversial, but lets kill all the Jews and once they're all gone, I doubt anyone will miss them enough to complain much, and those who do will be too scared of us. Then we can forget they were ever here and hopefully we won't feel too guilty about it or anything."

You certainly expect Hitler to behave worse than Gandhi, because you know what Hitler is like. I'm not sure thats holding him to a different moral standard exactly. Its just expecting him to fail to live up to it. If you move the moral goalpost, he won't miss it any more and you won't be able to indict him. Why would you move it?

In reality we are all held to the same moral standard of course, but when one side is often claiming ownership of the standard while simultaneously subconsciously admitting that their opponents are morally superior to them, shouldn't they be doomed or something? Theres a conclusion to be drawn here but its moral and logical so conservatives will never draw it and hence theres little real point in me drawing it I suppose. Its just point scoring in a debate.

One thing is for sure, no liberals are voting for Hitler. Some conservatives certainly will. That says a thing or two as well.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 11:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Did you know the vast majority of the hurricane relief is not coming from Caesar, but from faith based groups?
Thats because Caesar is currently Trump. Even if he were providing aid he'd be taking a cut for himself.

Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
The Society of Saint Vincent De Paul is providing furniture to those affected in Texas?
Again, one suspects that Trump's house in a box would come from his own companies and contain gold-plated everything. And he'd be charging the government as if it were solid 24 carat.

Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Yes, we want to do those thing that promote the common good. We just don't believe it should come from Caesar, but begin with those closest who can best deal with it. Liberals look to Caesar first because Caesar knows what's best.
Lets not forget that Caesar also has substantial resources and manpower and logistical systems to do these things efficiently. Also, Caesar is the only one with a legal imperative to do them impartially. The problem with conservative charity is its selective nature. Sure you'll help young women who've gotten themselves "in trouble", but they have to go for adoption not abortion. If they don't play by your rules they are on their own and Caesar has to respect everyone's rules outside of the laws of the land.

Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
No, because I'm not ideologically committed to one party. Meanwhile, the other party is the antithesis of my faith.
It hence follows on that they aren't the antithesis of your faith at all. They protect your right to practice it and always have. Your problem is they protect the rights of others to practice their faiths and that is the job of any US government according to your constitution is it not?

Withholding charity from followers of other faiths is contrary to your faith isn't it?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 12:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
No, because I'm not ideologically committed to one party. Meanwhile, the other party is the antithesis of my faith.

I don't think it is, I think you just obsess over some things (e.g. abortion) more than others. The things in my list are VERY important, but you don't seem to care much about them. I don't think it requires a biblical scholar to say that Jesus would care very much about everybody having access to health care (without being put in financial ruin).

I'm sorry to have to be so blunt, but if you really were into Jesus you would be totally against a large number of people being cut off from their health care, which might happen any day now. There is simply no logical way for you to claim you are a moral Christian while supporting a policy like this. Did you read the sections about Jesus caring for the poor?
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 01:04 PM
 
I should add even putting on the table kids being broken up with their parents because of immigration/documentation issues as another area where liberals stand on moral grounds.

Good policy? That's debatable, but moral? Yes.

Chongo, you claim that you support DACA. How is this the antithesis of your faith?
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 02:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
This is like your entire shtick.
Go back and read the opinions he has stated as facts.
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Thats because Caesar is currently Trump. Even if he were providing aid he'd be taking a cut for himself.



Again, one suspects that Trump's house in a box would come from his own companies and contain gold-plated everything. And he'd be charging the government as if it were solid 24 carat.



Lets not forget that Caesar also has substantial resources and manpower and logistical systems to do these things efficiently. Also, Caesar is the only one with a legal imperative to do them impartially. The problem with conservative charity is its selective nature. Sure you'll help young women who've gotten themselves "in trouble", but they have to go for adoption not abortion. If they don't play by your rules they are on their own and Caesar has to respect everyone's rules outside of the laws of the land.



It hence follows on that they aren't the antithesis of your faith at all. They protect your right to practice it and always have. Your problem is they protect the rights of others to practice their faiths and that is the job of any US government according to your constitution is it not?

Withholding charity from followers of other faiths is contrary to your faith isn't it?
All of your BS seems to come from your assumptions of what motives drives Trump. not any real knowledge of him in reality. You are projecting. You have let the worthless speculations of your faulty new sources drive your idiotic opinions.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 02:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Go back and read the opinions he has stated as facts.
Is it your opinion that I should do that?
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I don't think it is, I think you just obsess over some things (e.g. abortion) more than others. The things in my list are VERY important, but you don't seem to care much about them. I don't think it requires a biblical scholar to say that Jesus would care very much about everybody having access to health care (without being put in financial ruin).

I'm sorry to have to be so blunt, but if you really were into Jesus you would be totally against a large number of people being cut off from their health care, which might happen any day now. There is simply no logical way for you to claim you are a moral Christian while supporting a policy like this. Did you read the sections about Jesus caring for the poor?
Besson morals is an oxymoron.
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Is it your opinion that I should do that?
Um...its a suggestion.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 05:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Besson morals is an oxymoron.
Your face is a moral oxymoron.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 19, 2017, 05:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
All of your BS seems to come from your assumptions of what motives drives Trump. not any real knowledge of him in reality. You are projecting. You have let the worthless speculations of your faulty new sources drive your idiotic opinions.

Everyone knows Trump is in it for personal financial gain. He took campaign donations then bought merchandise from his own companies with the money. Its tantamount to money laundering in a way.

As for my "opinions", I drew a logical conclusion from evidence. Its not an opinion, its very, very obvious. Made even more so by the fact (not opinion) that you have failed to mount anything vaguely resembling a challenge to it on logical grounds. You just claim that I read the wrong news sources. You do this without having any idea which ones I read, and while reading exclusively the most biased right-wing garbage imaginable yourself.

Even if I were guilty of expressing opinions as facts (some people might just think I have confidence in my opinions), at least I have some opinions instead of getting them spoon fed to me by Alex Jones and Rupert Murdoch.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 20, 2017, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
All of your BS seems to come from your assumptions of what motives drives Trump. not any real knowledge of him in reality. You are projecting. You have let the worthless speculations of your faulty new sources drive your idiotic opinions.
Have you ever purported to know Obama's motives?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 20, 2017, 08:56 PM
 
So good:

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 20, 2017, 11:54 PM
 
I think there were a lot of good reasons for Hillary to write her book that go well beyond satisfying her ego.

I also think that history is going to have a hard time explaining the utter loathing of this woman (and of Obama).
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2017, 12:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I think there were a lot of good reasons for Hillary to write her book that go well beyond satisfying her ego.

I also think that history is going to have a hard time explaining the utter loathing of this woman (and of Obama).
History will have no trouble explaining either. Four words each.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2017, 04:37 AM
 
^^ Yeah. "The Left Is Cancer"
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2017, 08:58 AM
 
That does explain it in a roundabout way.

The right are assholes.

Way to demonstrate that.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2017, 09:05 AM
 
That's still a hell of a lot better than being cancer.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2017, 10:06 AM
 
The right are ass-cancer?
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2017, 10:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
^^ Yeah. "The Left Is Cancer"
Ineffective, incompetent, partially corrupt, spineless, but cancer?

Cancer doesn't care about things like universal health care coverage, global climate change, student loan debt, etc. You know, moral and important populist stuff.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 21, 2017, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
That does explain it in a roundabout way.

The right are assholes.

Way to demonstrate that.
It doesn't help to pretend there wasn't (isn't) a lot to dislike about Hillary that goes beyond sexism.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:46 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,