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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iOS Apps > iOS11 new image format?

iOS11 new image format?
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Thorzdad
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Jun 10, 2017, 04:12 PM
 
So, apparently iOS11 will feature a new default image file format dubbed "HEIF" (High Efficiency Image Format.) Can anyone confirm that jpeg will still be available in 11 as well? As nifty as I'm sure HEIF is, I'm pretty sure my older version of Photoshop is not going to be updated to accommodate the new format.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 10, 2017, 07:02 PM
 
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jun 11, 2017, 10:14 AM
 
     
subego
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Jun 11, 2017, 10:37 AM
 
So, no more PNG?
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jun 11, 2017, 11:24 AM
 
To be fair, PNG was never intended as a replacement for jpeg. It was aimed at the role gif was used for, improving it with a far wider 24-bit color gamut and alpha-channel transparency (but not animation.) I know people use it as a continuous-tone image format, ala jpeg, but, strictly speaking, that's an improper use. All that said, a modern OS should support png for capture as well as display, since it is intended to be a web-based format.
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 12, 2017, 11:26 AM
 
thanks for screenshot, very helpful, assuming I ever update to iOS and also still have ancient photoshop.
     
Brien
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Jun 14, 2017, 01:37 PM
 
JPG is pretty crappy. JPEG has held out despite attempts to replace it ( looking at you, JPEG2000), so I hope this format gains wider adoption (or something else at least).
     
reader50
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Jun 14, 2017, 01:59 PM
 
JPEG, PNG, and now GIF are all patent-free. They can be used and implemented by anyone. Most of the alternatives tried (including HEIF) have license limitations that interfere with wide-spread adoption. In particular, they block open-source support. The marketplace has tended to reject pay-to-play standards.

HEIF is part of the MPEG group / h265 licensing, which had the price hiked up vs h264. And not all patent holders are under the MPEG-LA umbrella, so you have to license from more than one group. I predict spotty support, mostly limited to commercial platforms.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jun 14, 2017, 02:41 PM
 
It would be quite interesting if Adobe did a little eff-you to Apple and didn't implement support in Photoshop.
     
subego
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Jun 15, 2017, 06:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
JPEG, PNG, and now GIF are all patent-free. They can be used and implemented by anyone. Most of the alternatives tried (including HEIF) have license limitations that interfere with wide-spread adoption. In particular, they block open-source support. The marketplace has tended to reject pay-to-play standards.

HEIF is part of the MPEG group / h265 licensing, which had the price hiked up vs h264. And not all patent holders are under the MPEG-LA umbrella, so you have to license from more than one group. I predict spotty support, mostly limited to commercial platforms.
Can't someone theoretically x265 it?
     
P
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Jun 15, 2017, 10:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Can't someone theoretically x265 it?
Yes you can, it is software, but the issue is who can use it. Mozilla refuses to use H.264 provided by the OS, because it is "non-free" - it is all principles to them.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
P
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Jun 15, 2017, 10:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
JPEG, PNG, and now GIF are all patent-free. They can be used and implemented by anyone. Most of the alternatives tried (including HEIF) have license limitations that interfere with wide-spread adoption. In particular, they block open-source support. The marketplace has tended to reject pay-to-play standards.
IME, the marketplace has rejected formats where you need a per-user license to show them, and that is only when there is a "good enough" free format - MPEG2 did quite well despite being licensed on a fee-per-player model, because the free formats were unusably bad.

This is the reason JPEG lives on - it is good enough. We now have JPEG for images, MP3 for audio (or possibly we will in six months, there is some debate on exactly when the last patent expires) but we don't have anything completely free for video. H.264 is the closest possible - encoders cost money, decoders have a license fee but it is capped per year, and Cisco is paying that fee, so H.264 is pretty close to free already. Note that MPEG4-ASP runs out of patent coverage in a couple of years, 2021 I think it was.

Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
HEIF is part of the MPEG group / h265 licensing, which had the price hiked up vs h264. And not all patent holders are under the MPEG-LA umbrella, so you have to license from more than one group. I predict spotty support, mostly limited to commercial platforms.
This last is my worry. All the brouhaha over the <video> tag format and Google's posturing led to MPEG-LA basically caving on the H.264 licensing fee - it is kept as a fixed fee for decoders and no internet streaming charge - but that in turn led to some patent holders breaking out of the pool for H.265. I never heard of what happened with that. If you cannot get a license from MPEG-LA to implement it and be safe, this format will go nowhere.

I don't like software patents, but if we have a free baseline format and a for-pay format that is more powerful and will be free eventually... that is OK, because without that payment up front, no better format will be developed. It just won't work if the viewer/decoder cannot be free, because then it will never be widely adopted.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
ghporter
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Jun 16, 2017, 07:43 PM
 
To me, the brouhaha over previous "improved" (but non-free) file/image/etc. formats always blew over. But in the process, the marketplace pushed, shoved, delayed or just didn't buy stuff, and everything settled down.

Nobody got sued into the poorhouse over GIF patents, and I don't see this becoming that contentious. If I read this situation (not the formal documents, just the situation) correctly, Apple's new format is going to be "controlled" and not opened up for - to Apple's way of thinking - the "protection" of both users and OS/browsers/etc. As the format either gains acceptance or fails, Apple will adjust their "protection" policy. If it fails, nobody worries about it.

With acceptance from the market, Apple's licensing will probably become a lot more like formally promising not to goober up the format or use it for evil purposes. A free license could include a key that would stamp every file the license holder's software produces, thus pointing out who might be responsible for any badness... This sort of tactic is used in confidential documents and files; each is subtly unique, and any leak is identifiable by the unique fingerprint of the document or file that the leak came from.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
   
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