[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Nine international games and four months of EPL, Champion's League, and Capital One Cup matches (effectively two active months), as well as a stadium ban during that time period.

It doesn't seem like a lot, but he's fined 100,000 Swiss francs as well (roughly $111,000 American). The fine is huge, and you know it will kill him to miss the rest of this World Cup. Uruguay have been proven to be dangerous (heh heh...) in international play, so he'll likely feel he's giving up his next-to-last shot at glory.

[EDIT] Think about this: Liverpool is back in the Champion's League, and I believe this will take him out of the first two matches. It would be a huge blow to Liverpool.

Amazingly, Barcelona are apparently still interested.

Yeah there is something fishy going on. The only football activity they haven't banned him from is securing a transfer, which of course has massive personal benefits for him and could potentially serve as an additional fine while doing Liverpool a compensatory favour.

I also notice that there are lots of press claiming he is tarnishing Liverpool's image, but for some reason its fine for Barca to want him knowing his reputation well in advance.
Look like they will have to pay his release clause if they want him. Hopefully its £120M or so.

[P]

Barca gets a pass for things that no other team would. I guess they plan to say that it is a new start, he'll get some counseling, yadda yadda.

I still don't think that it's a good plan though. Barca already have Messi and Neymar - that is more offensive power than anyone needs, and both Suarez and Neymar are at their best when they're the big star. They won't be in Barca, because Messi. At the same time, Barca needs some new blood in the midfield. Xavi is past his prime and apparently leaving - that's the player they need to replace. Suarez would do better in Real.

[mattyb]

BBC Sport - Luis Suarez: Barcelona to open talks over Liverpool striker

[Waragainstsleep]

Real have a fairly potent forward line as well though. Benzema is no Suarez but he's a good player.

My problem is how do Liverpool replace him? There is no-one of that calibre available to buy. (Not that he should be available given he just signed a new deal this year and all the other crap LFC has had to put up with from him).

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

While I agree that Test Matches can be boring, I like the fact that you can never say who is winning.

*crickets*

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by P 

In the Ecuadoran situation, the worst possible outcome is he breaks a leg. This is not an uncommon situation, and there are many examples of players breaking their legs. In the Italian situation, the worst possible outcome is that he breaks the skin of the defenders leg, causing a scratch that might need a bandaid. That's why one's a red and one isn't.



And here we get to the root of the problem. The ref in this case was not in the top 100 in the world - that's not how FIFA picks their refs. Each of the continental organizations has a number of slots, and they all divide them up among the member nations, who then in many cases hand them out on a less than professional basis. There are refs in the World Cup who have never called a professional game before. No, I am not exaggerating - zero professional games before this tournament. You could fill the tournament with only refs from the Premier league and get a significantly higher standard than what is currently there. This is why I have so little respect for the refs in the World Cup, in particular in the group stages.



Without that, he should be banned for years. He came in like a missile with his leg straight. That last makes a massive difference.

The more replays I watch the more I am satisfied that you are right in that it should be a red card with no possibility of yellow, if only because of the outstretched leg. The FIFA rules that mattyb posted seem clear that the straight leg is a key component, although there is not much commentary on whether the ref should factor into getting the ball first (he controlled the ball first and then ran into the sliding defender) and bad intent (no evidence of any). I would be interested to see some commentary on this from a current or former professional ref, but I may have been (mis)placing too much emphasis on those components.

I had no idea that the FIFA ref selection process was that shoddy. Totally confusing, yet generally in line with most of what I know about FIFA. Here in NA, most "championship" format tournaments generally have picked the highest-regarded or ranked referees,

[Shaddim]

My favorite teams are out and I've lost interest. Meh.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

My favorite teams are out and I've lost interest. Meh.

I'm hoping for some serious animosity between the Frogs and Krouts on Friday.

[turtle777]

Krauts.

And yes, it's going to be a fun game. Go Krauts

-t

[mattyb]

Urban Dictionary: krout

Urban Dictionary: Kraut

Edit : after posting the links above, I asked myself why I wrote krout, and I actually don't know. I wonder if living in a foreign country for so long makes you gaga. How's your German spelling turtle after so long in the US?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

How's your German spelling turtle after so long in the US?

Bäd

-t

[Waragainstsleep]

Apparently most of the Germans have flu.

[P]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

The more replays I watch the more I am satisfied that you are right in that it should be a red card with no possibility of yellow, if only because of the outstretched leg. The FIFA rules that mattyb posted seem clear that the straight leg is a key component, although there is not much commentary on whether the ref should factor into getting the ball first (he controlled the ball first and then ran into the sliding defender) and bad intent (no evidence of any). I would be interested to see some commentary on this from a current or former professional ref, but I may have been (mis)placing too much emphasis on those components.

I'm glad we can agree on that one. Sometimes it seems ref standards are really different around the globe. I think maybe the reasoning has changed over the years - I remember maybe 20 years ago that defenders could get away with murder by making sure to hit the ball first.

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

I had no idea that the FIFA ref selection process was that shoddy. Totally confusing, yet generally in line with most of what I know about FIFA. Here in NA, most "championship" format tournaments generally have picked the highest-regarded or ranked referees,

It comes back to the root of the organization - it is an organization of the continental organizations. Football began in England but spread early to Brazil, and in effect developed in parallel on two continents. At its inception, FIFA was the Europeans on one side and the South Americans on the other, rather than organization with various nations around the globe as members.

The reffing issue comes up every now and then - this year I remember seeing it a little more than normal around the 'net. With the goal line technology apparently working and that shaving foam thing for the free kicks having a definite positive effect, the refs are probably the next thing to tackle.

(My personal opinion is that football should just copy the setup that handball uses - two refs, one on each side of the ball, with clearly defined areas of responsibility. They could copy the timekeeping from there as well - a running clock, but it is stopped by the ref as he feels like it, but the game ends when the timer hits full time.)

[Waragainstsleep]

I'd like to say they will never adopt basketball style timekeeping but I guess you never know. Injury time just adds to the suspense of a really good, close game. Especially now that it won't always be in Man Utd's favour any more.

I think video replays or a video ref are the big refereeing thing to add. Its a total no-brainer, championships and consequently millions of pounds have been won and lost on wrong decisions.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I think that video replays make less sense, and that is tied to your first point. You can't do video replays in real time; you either shorten the players' time on the pitch, introduce stopped time, or make the extra-time awkwardness even more pronounced.

[Waragainstsleep]

There are ways of mitigation that. You have a dedicated video ref off the field who like a linesman can get a hold of the ref if he spots something they don't, or the ref can ask him to give a replay based ruling. They could even throw in a one challenge each per half system a bit like the players get in Tennis. If the ref doesn't call for a video opinion, the captain can if he has a challenge available.

[P]

I wish they'd try two refs for a tournament or so. It really makes a massive difference to have one ref on each side of the ball. It also helps against diving, because each ref is prejudiced towards not calling a foul if uncertain - both expect the other to call it if they're certain, so if it is unclear, they don't call it. Otoh, if one calls it and the other sees that it is diving, they give the free kick to the defending team.

[ajprice]

Because I've got them in the sweep at work, I'm supporting France for this one.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

There are ways of mitigation that. You have a dedicated video ref off the field who like a linesman can get a hold of the ref if he spots something they don't, or the ref can ask him to give a replay based ruling. They could even throw in a one challenge each per half system a bit like the players get in Tennis. If the ref doesn't call for a video opinion, the captain can if he has a challenge available.

Either way you're going to have to deal with the time issue - does it continue to run during these challenges?

I'm okay with missed calls by refs - just like missed plays by players, it's the human element that is ultimately the best thing. But two referees would be a much better implementation I feel.

[turtle777]

Krauts vs. Frogs is a good game so far.

Go Frogs. Home, that is

-t

[ajprice]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

Because I've got them in the sweep at work, I'm supporting France for this one.

Stupid cheese eating surrender monkeys!

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Either way you're going to have to deal with the time issue - does it continue to run during these challenges?

I'm okay with missed calls by refs - just like missed plays by players, it's the human element that is ultimately the best thing. But two referees would be a much better implementation I feel.

I think the clock still runs no matter what. Thats just the way football is. 30 seconds added to injury time for every challenge used.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

Stupid cheese eating surrender monkeys!

Are you surprised ?

-t

[Shaddim]

At least the French won't be celebrating now.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Wow, Neymar out.....

[Jawbone54]

Here's the challenge that resulted in Neymar's broken vertebrae: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rROZ7DVJfVI

What's sad is how many people thought he was making more of the contact than was there. Classic boy crying "wolf" story, but still a tragedy for the World Cup. No one wants to see this.

As for the challenge itself, Zuniga should've been sent off. Horrible.

[turtle777]

Well, that's some luck for the Germans. That semi-final now seems really feasible.

-t

[ShortcutToMoncton]

There were several very questionable challenges by the desperate Columbians as time started to slip away. I was very surprised that a few more yellows were not handed out.

[P]

The ref in that game was extremely lenient on fouls. That worked for a while, but the game got away from him. Of course it should have been a red when you endanger the other player like that for no reason, but I think the ref thought Neymar was just trying to make time go.

[turtle777]

Yep, that's the problem with soccer. They always pretend as if they just lost a leg, even if it's not even a scratch.

-t

[P]

I actually think that has been better this year. Last time the biggest diver was Robben, and I watched an entire game last night of him getting legitimately fouled and not getting free kicks. In general you are right, of course, and there should be after game video reviews to suspend the worst divers.

[Waragainstsleep]

Yeah he got nothing last night because he dived to win the game before. It happens all the time. Refs should be like jurors and stay away from the press really.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I mean, Robben drew 3 or 4 yellow cards and another number of fouls...much of it on his normal theatrics. It's not like the ref was just letting him get hacked.

(Disclosure: he's my fav player)

[Waragainstsleep]

He is a great player, but that penalty in the last minute against Mexico was a stone cold dive. And he admitted to another one during the game.

[mattyb]

I'm betting on an all-Europe final, although I'd like to see the Germans lose tonight. Nothing personal turtle/Spheric.

[Chongo]

Argentina V Brazil. Argentina winner

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I'm going for the Netherlands, but although Robben has been his normal self, van Persie peaked with that spectacular header and has been trending downward ever since. Not sure if he's hiding an injury, but he's really seemed to be slow getting back onside in the last few games, and a few of those seemed like he was just giving up on play too early. I think he needs to pick it up against Argentina, because Messi will be a tough cover for them - defence has been their weakness from the start.

If he's playing at a van Persie level, I see the Dutch going through. Di Maria's injury is a big blow to Argentina - I don't think they will be as creative without him, and that's saying something considering how average they've been Messi aside.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Boom!

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Holy shit...

[Chongo]

Holy smokes. Does FIFA have a "mercy rule?"

[ShortcutToMoncton]

This is astounding

[sek929]

5-0 only 30' into the game? Dafuq??

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Holy smokes. Does FIFA have a "mercy rule?"

I concur. I felt increasingly queasy watching that. Not good.

[Chongo]

[Chongo]

[sek929]

7-0, utterly dumbfounded at this performance...

[P]

The Brazilian defense is a joke. Ok they're missing Thiago Silva, but still.

[turtle777]

LOL.

Whoever wins the Argentina vs. Netherlands game, bring it on :-)

-t

[Chongo]

Revised Final: Argentina VS Germany

Should I take the points, or bet him straight up?

[Shaddim]

Most humiliating thrashing in the history of World Cup? Maybe.