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osiris · Oct 5, 2011, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Why does the 4S have better talk time and worse standby time?

Good question. I believe it's because of the dual core processor- even when idle it will consume more power than a single core processor. Just a guess.

turtle777 · Oct 5, 2011, 10:08 AM

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet:

Apple is now selling the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 UNLOCKED straight from the Apple Store.

AFAIK, that's new.
Not sure if they are going to offer it for the iPhone 4S as well.

-t

l008com · Oct 5, 2011, 10:11 AM

Funny how the 8GB unlocked iPhone 4 is $549
Yet the 8 GB iPod touch is only $199
$350 for a cellular radio?

turtle777 · Oct 5, 2011, 10:20 AM

Also, pretty cool, I'm upgrade eligible on Nov 18, although I got my iPhone 4 in when it came out last year.
So AT&T let's me get a new phone (subsidized) after only 17 months.

-t

l008com · Oct 5, 2011, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Also, pretty cool, I'm upgrade eligible on Nov 18, although I got my iPhone 4 in when it came out last year.
So AT&T let's me get a new phone (subsidized) after only 17 months.

-t

Anything to keep you from switching to a provider that will actually allow you to make phone calls.

Moderator · Oct 5, 2011, 10:32 AM

Count me as disappointed. 3.5" is too small for 2011. Reminds me of the original iMac's 13" screen...after a few years it just seemed tiny and a bit old fashioned.

Waragainstsleep · Oct 5, 2011, 11:13 AM

I really don't have an issue with the size of the iPhone screen. I don't think the iPhone really needs to be any bigger. The Galaxy with the slightly bigger screen looks kind of odd as a result. Less comfy to put in your pocket.

freudling · Oct 5, 2011, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Who wants to place bets on whether or not Verizon and Sprint iPhone 4.5s will have their GSM capabilities locked? Does Verizon make it tough for owners of other "World Phone" models to use GSM?

freudling, your logic in this thread is a little, well, off. You're assuming that Apple had manufacturing problems with the hypothetical 5 because of its war with Samsung, yet you also assume that the guts of the 5 were transplanted into the 4S. That's pretty nonsensical. If Apple wanted to it would have released the 5 now - certainly the advanced components in the 4S are more of a technical challenge to manufacture than a case redesign should be. Granted, the company does look a little dumb for delaying this revision and not coming out with a new case design. But the fact of the matter is, the iPhone 4 case design is very well received judging by the sales statistics, and Apple doesn't throw out good case designs after only a year. We all should have expected the 4S, but we were thrown off because of that delay that does seem ill conceived. It made many assume that Apple would have something hugely new for this event, and everyone wanted to believe the rumor mill hype. What we got instead was a considerable internals upgrade to the 4. The only thing that could have been larger would have been true 4G capability, but we also knew that wasn't coming. Hardly a blunder, aside from the fact that Apple let expectations get out of hand as it so often does.

As for your complaints about the 4 having a small screen, that's clearly a very subjective matter. A good number of tech geeks seem to be enamored of the larger screens that Android devices are introducing. Great, let them buy Android phones. Apple likes the screen size it offers on the iPhone. If it were to have changed, it would have changed with the resolution upgrade on the 4. Plus, Apple's not going to sacrifice its Retina display marketing to increase the screen size while reducing pixel density. I think if you're hoping for a 5 with a larger screen, you should get used to Android or Windows.

What a rant. Do you understand what you read? You say my logic. I clearly stated "discussion on the Web". Meaning, not me. Investigative journalism...

There are several articles covering this now. I also never said it was a "fact". I said "if" it is true...

And do I tend to believe that line? More than I don't. It explains a lot. Apple's got red tape it's dealing with in Brazil. They're at War with Samsung. And they're in the middle of trying to move to smaller, less known manufacturers for more of the heavy lifting.

And it does suck because this phone isn't cutting edge. The screen really is too small. I might just have to buy an Andriod phone as a stopgap until the iPhone 5 comes out. First time in a long time that I've been totally unimpressed with a new Apple product.

Siri? Ya, something that you'll use in niche situations, and that's cool. But having some monotone computer voice talk to me isn't enough to upgrade to the same old. I need the screen and thinner design.

Maybe I'll just stay with my iPod Touch 4G in the meantime. I've been using it for 6 months after I ditched my iPhone 4. It's so thin and light. I use FaceTime, Skype with Skypeout and in, VoxOx, now iMessage and Google Voice.

freudling · Oct 5, 2011, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

I really don't have an issue with the size of the iPhone screen. I don't think the iPhone really needs to be any bigger. The Galaxy with the slightly bigger screen looks kind of odd as a result. Less comfy to put in your pocket.

That's because the Samsung phone (S2) is 4.2"-4.55" depending on what carrier you go with. It's too big frankly. The iPhone 4 is supposed to be something like 3.9 or 4". Overall it's much smaller in its form factor.

Again, here is what could be a very accurate prototype of the iPhone 5. You can see how desirable this would be (warning, you probably won't want an iPhone 4/4S after watching this):

iPhone 5: This is our Design-Prototype [ENG Subtitles] - YouTube

imitchellg5 · Oct 5, 2011, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet:

Apple is now selling the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 UNLOCKED straight from the Apple Store.

AFAIK, that's new.
Not sure if they are going to offer it for the iPhone 4S as well.

-t

They sold the iPhone 4 unlocked.

SierraDragon · Oct 5, 2011, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by MacinTommy

Does anyone else see something wrong with this? (4S, 4, 3GS)

Maybe the shorter standby time on the 4s is the result of push notifications combined with the much more powerful A5 processor.

-Allen

turtle777 · Oct 5, 2011, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

They sold the iPhone 4 unlocked.

Ah, ok, guess I missed that.

-t

P · Oct 5, 2011, 01:00 PM

They only started doing so fairly recently.

SierraDragon · Oct 5, 2011, 01:10 PM

The Giga prototype video linked by freudling is exactly what I was looking for in an iPhone 5 (to get the added display real estate). However i accept the fact that Apple went to 4s first. It really is a logical evolution, and Apple will sell a ton of them.

My guess is iPhone 5 will heavily involve LTE and be a lot like what Giga prototyped so nicely. Introducing an LTE phone now would have been hella confusing from a marketing standpoint with LTE networks still in disarray. A year from now all the tech in the 4s will have been field-tested, stronger components will be available and networks will be more ready for a new-form iPhone 5.

-Allen

imitchellg5 · Oct 5, 2011, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by P

They only started doing so fairly recently.

You could always buy the iPhone 4 unlocked from a physical Apple Store, but only by request. When the Verizon iPhone 4 came out, they made it available online and in AT&T stores.

freudling · Oct 5, 2011, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by SierraDragon

The Giga prototype video linked by freudling is exactly what I was looking for in an iPhone 5 (to get the added display real estate). However i accept the fact that Apple went to 4s first. It really is a logical evolution, and Apple will sell a ton of them.

My guess is iPhone 5 will heavily involve LTE and be a lot like what Giga prototyped so nicely. Introducing an LTE phone now would have been hella confusing from a marketing standpoint with LTE networks still in disarray. A year from now all the tech in the 4s will have been field-tested, stronger components will be available and networks will be more ready for a new-form iPhone 5.

-Allen

Some very good points. However, the US does not equal the rest of the world. There are more capable networks abroad.

But you could be on to something... this could be just another reason Apple stuck with the Gordon Gecko phone.

turtle777 · Oct 5, 2011, 01:30 PM

Btw, is anybody else surprised by the complete absence of a NFC based mobile pay system ?
I thought that was rather likely to appear, especially since the guts of the iPhone 4S are completely new.

-t

Spheric Harlot · Oct 5, 2011, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by freudling

Some very good points. However, the US does not equal the rest of the world. There are more capable networks abroad.

That's why we're getting 14.4 Mbit HSDPA. That's useless in the U.S., and LTE is useless here.

imitchellg5 · Oct 5, 2011, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Btw, is anybody else surprised by the complete absence of a NFC based mobile pay system ?
I thought that was rather likely to appear, especially since the guts of the iPhone 4S are completely new.

-t

We'll have to wait for a teardown, but I'm pretty certain that there isn't enough physical room for a NFC chip.

turtle777 · Oct 5, 2011, 01:42 PM

Perhaps. It might require a redesign of the shell and / or some more leaps in technology miniturization.

-t

SierraDragon · Oct 5, 2011, 02:09 PM

Yup. They will call it iPhone 5...

I had forgotten about the not-insubstantial NFC issue. NFC is big enough to justify a full new phone version just by itself.

-Allen

Wiskedjak · Oct 5, 2011, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

I really don't have an issue with the size of the iPhone screen. I don't think the iPhone really needs to be any bigger. The Galaxy with the slightly bigger screen looks kind of odd as a result. Less comfy to put in your pocket.

We've got one in our collection of test devices. My thumb doesn't reach all the way across the screen when I'm holding it with one hand, resulting in me having to use 2 hands to use it most of the time. It does indeed feel too wide.

Waragainstsleep · Oct 5, 2011, 03:58 PM

I for one am stoked. I got the original iPhone for a bargain price before they were out in the UK because I unlocked a bunch for other people at the time. I upgraded to the 3G when the 3GS came out because I got a great price for one but decided there was no point trying to upgrade that to the 3GS and would wait for the 4. As it transpired I had no money when the 4 came out but I got a 3GS through work eventually and that is eligible for upgrade this side of christmas so all being well I should be able to get a 4S through work.

I'm hoping the delay was more to do with getting the software right which to me means getting Siri to work as advertised, if it does its going to be awesome. How long before it makes it into Lion?

Big Mac · Oct 5, 2011, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Did you watch the keynote? Any iPhone 4S can roam the world in GSM. In terms of Verizon making it tough, nope. All I have to do to use my Droid 2 Global overseas is just pop in a local SIM card (it actually came with a Vodafone/Verizon SIM card to roam in Europe and pay Verizon's exorbitant fees).

I know the iPhone 4S "can roam the world in GSM," but that's different from popping in a local SIM card. My old Verizon dumb phone could roam the world too, but I don't want to pay Verizon roaming rates. I want to do what you suggest - pop in a local SIM card. I just want to know for sure if Verizon will lock the 4S to their SIM or if I can do what you did with your Droid 2. Apple says the following:

An iPhone 4S activated on Sprint or Verizon Wireless will use CDMA technology too, but it also has the ability to roam internationally on GSM networks using the provided GSM micro-SIM. Contact your wireless carrier for more information regarding international roaming policies and rates.

imitchellg5 · Oct 5, 2011, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I know the iPhone 4S "can roam the world in GSM," but that's different from popping in a local SIM card. My old Verizon dumb phone could roam the world too, but I don't want to pay Verizon roaming rates. I want to do what you suggest - pop in a local SIM card. I just want to know for sure if Verizon will lock the 4S to their SIM or if I can do what you did with your Droid 2. Apple says the following:

No, the 4S isn't locked to any carrier. It has the same SKU for all carriers. They can't keep you from using another carrier's SIM.

Wiskedjak · Oct 5, 2011, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

No, the 4S isn't locked to any carrier. It has the same SKU for all carriers. They can't keep you from using another carrier's SIM.

I wouldn't bet on that. We've had the 4 unlocked in Canada since launch. It's unlocked in the store, with the same SKU for all carriers, but if you sign up for a subsidized plan, it gets locked on activation. I'd be amazed if any North American carrier would agree to offer a subsidized phone without a carrier lock.

I could be wrong, of course, but I'm thinking that true World Phone functionality will mean no subsidy.

turtle777 · Oct 5, 2011, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

No, the 4S isn't locked to any carrier. It has the same SKU for all carriers. They can't keep you from using another carrier's SIM.

I don't think you're right.

Same SKU = same hardware (only)

The SIM lock is a software issue, which gets activated later.

-t

imitchellg5 · Oct 5, 2011, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

I wouldn't bet on that. We've had the 4 unlocked in Canada since launch. It's unlocked in the store, with the same SKU for all carriers, but if you sign up for a subsidized plan, it gets locked on activation. I'd be amazed if any North American carrier would agree to offer a subsidized phone without a carrier lock.

I could be wrong, of course, but I'm thinking that true World Phone functionality will mean no subsidy.

I don't see why it would be any different than with my Droid. Obviously you'll pay an ETF if you cancel your service with whoever you're on contract with, but there shouldn't be a SIM lock for overseas use.

turtle777 · Oct 5, 2011, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

I don't see why it would be any different than with my Droid. Obviously you'll pay an ETF if you cancel your service with whoever you're on contract with, but there shouldn't be a SIM lock for overseas use.

There shouldn't. But we don't know.

This was why Big Mac was raising the question.

-t

freudling · Oct 5, 2011, 06:34 PM

Jesus. What a botched release. Ok no redesign. That sucks. What's a big selling feature of the iPhone 4S? Siri. Won't really run on older hardware. Problem is, it's only available in a few countries. Canada is not one of them. Why the hell would anyone feel compelled to wait in line and upgrade? The lust factor just isn't here. Apple's sales on iPhone won't be steller like they have been.

freudling · Oct 5, 2011, 06:38 PM

iPhone 4S marketing. "We took an already amazing design, and focused on the inside."

Jesus help us all. In other words, we're stuck with the same design for 2.5 years. What a joke.

turtle777 · Oct 5, 2011, 06:41 PM

You are cordially invited to get something else.

Seriously, broken record much ?
It's ok to state your opinion about teh old iPhone 4 design once, but it really gets boring if you post the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

-t

The Godfather · Oct 5, 2011, 06:42 PM

Take your AT&T iPhone to Mexico and it will still be locked to AT&T. Your only option will be to pay roaming charges through Telmex or Telefonica that will appear in your AT&T bill. It will be two or three paychecks, so not the end of the world.

Wiskedjak · Oct 5, 2011, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by freudling

In other words, we're stuck with the same design for 2.5 years. What a joke.

So, about as long as the average service contract?
New iPhone Blues: Why Apple's CEO Doesn't Care What You Hoped To See

Spheric Harlot · Oct 5, 2011, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by freudling

Jesus. What a botched release. Ok no redesign. That sucks. What's a big selling feature of the iPhone 4S? Siri. Won't really run on older hardware. Problem is, it's only available in a few countries. Canada is not one of them. Why the hell would anyone feel compelled to wait in line and upgrade? The lust factor just isn't here. Apple's sales on iPhone won't be steller like they have been.

Originally Posted by freudling

iPhone 4S marketing. "We took an already amazing design, and focused on the inside."

Jesus help us all. In other words, we're stuck with the same design for 2.5 years. What a joke.

This is the part where somebody tells you to please shut the **** up.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 5, 2011, 06:44 PM

Why is there no iPhone 5? | asymco

Wiskedjak · Oct 5, 2011, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Why is there no iPhone 5? | asymco

Once again, freudling fails to understand business logic.

freudling · Oct 5, 2011, 06:53 PM

2.5 years same phone design.
2.5 years same phone design.
2.5 years same phone design.
1. Not everybody has subsidized phones. People do upgrade every year. 2. iPhone 3GS user are heard yelling that they waited for nothing.

Bottom line. Apple needs to keep pace. There's some serious phones being released right now.

Guess what? iPhone 4S is heavier than the iPhone 4.

Apple has lost the plot.

imitchellg5 · Oct 5, 2011, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by freudling

Apple has lost the plot.

Oh please. You're making this into a soap opera.

Big Mac · Oct 5, 2011, 06:57 PM

And then there was a rush to put freudling on ignore.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 5, 2011, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by freudling

Guess what? iPhone 4S is heavier than the iPhone 4.

Okay, we've reached the traditional "freudling starts trolling random crap in hopes of getting a rise out of someone".

We're just about ready for voodoo to come barging in, quote various random snippets out of context, accuse everybody who believes Apple is doing a good job of being blind and rabid fanb0is, and generally just spray idiocy, while freudling bows out and hopes everybody has forgotten his complete idiocy the next time he starts trolling an opposite viewpoint.

(Three grams heavier, BTW.)

freudling · Oct 5, 2011, 07:38 PM

Seriously, none of you are taken back? Really? Am I the only one?

1. 15 months later, no redesign, and heavier.
2. Siri, main selling feature, only available to a few countries.
3. iPods... nothing? Just a white model... No Siri support at all?

No other real solid announcements at all. iWork for OS X way past due for an update.

None of this sounds like the Apple I know.

SierraDragon · 07:47 PM

Oh darn. You mean my new 4s (yup, I am one of those v3 phone users who _needs_ to upgrade) gains 3 grams (2.2%) and all I get for it is double the processor, double the RAM, 7x graphics, 1080p video, 64 GB and an awesome 8 MP camera?

Pshaw. I guess I will buy a Win Phone 7, me liking Monkey Boy so much.

-Allen

l008com · Oct 5, 2011, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by freudling

Seriously, none of you are taken back? Really? Am I the only one?

1. 15 months later, no redesign, and heavier.
2. Siri, main selling feature, only available to a few countries.
3. iPods... nothing? Just a white model... No Siri support at all?

No other real solid announcements at all. iWork for OS X way past due for an update.

None of this sounds like the Apple I know.

New nano, white touch and cheaper touches. And an iPhone 4S that could just as easily have been called an iPhone 5, it's so significantly improved. I'm very happy. I can't wait to order mine. I'd be happier if Apple also upgraded the iMacs, MacBook Pros, Mac Pros, and also brought back anti-glare screens on every model that has a screen. But being reasonable, that was a good Tuesday.

chabig · Oct 5, 2011, 07:44 PM

When the Apple haters discuss Apple suing Samsung for copying the iPhone design, design doesn't matter. When Apple releases a new phone without any design changes, design suddenly matters most. Hypocrites.

l008com · Oct 5, 2011, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

When the Apple haters discuss Apple suing Samsung for copying the iPhone design, design doesn't matter. When Apple releases a new phone without any design changes, design suddenly matters most. Hypocrites.

If this were something big, like a computer, you could say something about the case design. But iPhone (and really iPads too) have so little to them. The front is always going to be the screen, they are always going to be as thin as possible. There aren't very many options. How do you want your edge to look, and how do you want your back panel to look. The overall shape isn't a matter of cosmetic design, it's a function of what's inside.

Or to put it another way. The cosmetic differences between all of the iPhones are so subtle, who cares. I'll take 4x the screen pixels, 2x the CPU, 7x the GPU, and 4x the camera, thanks. Actually I'm comparing to my original iPhone so more than 2x CPU and 7x GPU.

imitchellg5 · Oct 5, 2011, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by freudling

Seriously, none of you are taken back? Really? Am I the only one?

1. 15 months later, no redesign, and heavier.

3 grams. That's about the weight of three small paperclips. You won't be able to tell.

Eug · Oct 5, 2011, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Moderator

Count me as disappointed. 3.5" is too small for 2011. Reminds me of the original iMac's 13" screen...after a few years it just seemed tiny and a bit old fashioned.

The iMac has never had a 13" screen.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 5, 2011, 08:27 PM

13" visible (15"CRT).

Eug · Oct 5, 2011, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

13" visible (15"CRT).

Closer to 14". I always thought it was 14" visible, but I see that Wiki has it at 13.8".