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ShortcutToMoncton · Nov 17, 2011, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

LOL, you are one of those idiots mentioned above.

Seriously, if there's something worse than people with bad equipment, it's people that think they are superman, in bad equipment.

-t

Ye gads, yes. Bad all-seasons in heavy snow? How does that even make a single lick of sense? That's the dumbest thing I've heard all week.

OreoCookie · Nov 17, 2011, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Athens

I would put skill above tires any day. I could get around fine on bald all season tires in heavy snow with my Prelude.

I very much doubt that. If you don't have any grip, then no amount of skill will help you. At best, skill (acquired through practice) allows to deal with situations better, but it still is a much better idea to couple skill with proper winter tires.

Originally Posted by Athens

And I saw people wipe out with good aggressive snow tires.

Driving in snowy and icy conditions requires practice, just like anything else in the world.

andi*pandi · Nov 17, 2011, 09:22 AM

There are always the people who think that just because they have an SUV or AWD (or apparently, a prelude) that they are invincible. They fly along the median in snowstorms going around the folks being cautious and you know something bad will happen.

BLAZE_MkIV · Nov 17, 2011, 10:10 AM

I would put skill above tires any day.

With the summer tires and 1/8' of snow drifting around the parking lot, zero traction. The snow just makes a little mound under the tire.

Athens · Nov 17, 2011, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

There are always the people who think that just because they have an SUV or AWD (or apparently, a prelude) that they are invincible. They fly along the median in snowstorms going around the folks being cautious and you know something bad will happen.

The presumptions and arrogance amaze me, lumping me in with those that think they are invincible and flying around cautious people. I have never been stuck in the snow. I have never crashed in the snow. And the only time I ever lost control in the snow for a brief 30 seconds was when I got bumped by a driver behind me who couldn't stop. I'm the cautious one who leaves 4-6 car lengths in front of me in the snow, who does 10-15 below the speed limit. This is what makes experience and skill the important factor between good tires or not. Stupidity and lack of skill is going to get you in the ditch or crashed regardless of the best tires in the world.

Oh no im sliding all over the place (not) Vancouver Snow - YouTube

And some deeper snow that is fresh on the ground https://s-static.ak.facebook.com/rsr...265128165&ev=0

Notice the car beside me spinning left and right and not moving forward with nice black steel rims and what looks like snow tires.....

Skill is most important. Good tires is second. If you lack skill and common sense no tire will save you. Not driving like a idiot is the most important thing. Do not lump me in with those idiots. My perfect driving record speaks for itself.

andi*pandi · Nov 17, 2011, 01:35 PM

Ok, I will not lump you in with that lot, but you did sound a bit arrogant. I consider myself a good driver but know I'm not invincible.

BLAZE_MkIV · Nov 17, 2011, 01:42 PM

If I Had a Bulldozer - YouTube

Athens · Nov 17, 2011, 01:54 PM

The worst people are those with Pickup trucks. Every time it snows, or every time we have icy conditions all long the Trans Canada between Surrey to Chilliwack you see pickup after pickup in the ditch. I remember last year a guy went blasting past me on really icy conditions and about 4km down the road drove past him just getting out of his truck nose first into the ditch. I don't know what it is about pickup drivers but I see them wiped out more then any one else in bad conditions. Second to that are tracker trailers with empty loads. They should NOT be on the road in snow and ice because those empty trailers are just absolutely dangerous.

I used to carry chains in my trunk before they got stolen just in case I found myself in a position of being stuck but never ended using them. I personal love driving in the snow because it keeps a large part of the population from going out in it. And the ones that do don't stay on the road very long. I find it less stressful then a typical rush hour day. I wish it would snow a lot more.

sek929 · Nov 17, 2011, 02:38 PM

The problem with confident AWD/4WD vehicle owners in the snow is that they only think about how much traction they get under acceleration. When it comes to braking you have just as much traction as a small FWD car, actually, even less since your vehicle weighs so much more.

When we get a big storm around here I never see regular cars stuck in the median or off the road, it is almost always a big SUV.

My first vehicle was a crappy-running VW Jetta with a sloppy clutch and bald low-profile tires, I learned how to manage in snow right away.

Athens · Nov 17, 2011, 03:12 PM

Its true. My Jeep Cherokee had no problems getting going in snow but man it was scary to try and stop with it. I always felt safer in my Prelude. I will take a front wheel light manual car over a big heavy 4x4 in the snow any day. Its funny because up at Stave Lake where my roommate and I go off roading, it was pretty much the same story. As long as I had momentum I could get up the steep rocky hills in the lude and at a pretty decent speed where the Jeep slipped all the way up. The difference was if I had to stop on the hill for any reason I couldn't get going again while the Jeep could. But as long as I didn't get stopped I slipped a lot less and got up at a more steady pace. Light vehicles do have some advantages.

turtle777 · Nov 17, 2011, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

Its true. My Jeep Cherokee had no problems getting going in snow but man it was scary to try and stop with it.

Well, guess what helps with stopping and breaking in snow or icy conditions ?

Not all-season tires, not skill. Dedicated WINTER tires.

-t

CreepDogg · Nov 17, 2011, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

The problem with confident AWD/4WD vehicle owners in the snow is that they only think about how much traction they get under acceleration. When it comes to braking you have just as much traction as a small FWD car, actually, even less since your vehicle weighs so much more.

When we get a big storm around here I never see regular cars stuck in the median or off the road, it is almost always a big SUV.

My first vehicle was a crappy-running VW Jetta with a sloppy clutch and bald low-profile tires, I learned how to manage in snow right away.

Very true. Why is it that people often forget that not all cars have 4WD, but pretty much every car has 4-wheel brakes?

Athens · Nov 17, 2011, 04:19 PM

Multi-Car Crash Snow Slide on Ice - YouTube

Of course it helps. But you are a retard and lock your wheels even with snow tires or are going to fast they are not going to do anything for you. That part is skill

. You put wait to much faith into snow tires.

BLAZE_MkIV · Nov 17, 2011, 04:25 PM

AWD + Snowtires
Lamborghini in the Snow - YouTube

Athens · Nov 17, 2011, 04:45 PM

Oh that Lambo looks fun in the snow. Im shocked any one would take such a expensive and delicate car out like that though.

andi*pandi · Nov 17, 2011, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Well, guess what helps with stopping and breaking in snow or icy conditions ?

Not all-season tires, not skill. Dedicated WINTER tires.

I commend you for bringing this back on-topic. :slowclap:

However, can anything short of studs/chains really help on ice?

Shaddim · Nov 17, 2011, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV

AWD + Snowtires
Lamborghini in the Snow - YouTube

Yep! I.can't.wait.

amazing · Nov 17, 2011, 06:39 PM

this is the better one to show about a ferrari stuck in barely any snow

Ferrari360 in snow - YouTube

Athens · Nov 18, 2011, 01:34 AM

I just tested my new car out on the snow for the first snow fall of this Winter. Damn thing takes all the fun out of driving in the snow. The traction control, stability control and ABS brakes really make it easier driving in the snow.

Nov 18, 2011, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

Multi-Car Crash Snow Slide on Ice - YouTube

Of course it helps. But you are a retard and lock your wheels even with snow tires or are going to fast they are not going to do anything for you. That part is skill

. You put wait to much faith into snow tires.

True, but skill is not getting you out of all situations, unless you drive at 5mph. And I doubt you slow down to 5 mph all winter. And if you don't, you need winter tires, plain and simple. Part of being a skilled driver means knowing to use the proper equipment. F1 drivers use tires appropriate for the race track. Professional Rally drivers put on tires appropriate for dirt and other slippery conditions. So why do you, a skilled driver, not want to put on appropriate tires for driving in winter?

Yes, I agree there are people who think just putting on winter tires make them invincible regardless of the skill, but that's not an argument against the tires, it's just a criticism of those drivers.

Athens · Nov 18, 2011, 12:41 PM

Never needed them, never had a problem with snow.

ShortcutToMoncton · Nov 18, 2011, 03:39 PM

That tells me you don't drive in significant amounts of it, then. Which makes sense, if you're in a warm and wet place like Vancouver.

Nov 18, 2011, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

Never needed them, never had a problem with snow.

Still not an argument against them, just that you've been lucky so far, or you don't drive in snow or on ice very much. I just hope you don't hurt anyone else if your day comes.

By the way, everyone whose ever landed in the ditch the first time because of poor winter traction, said the same thing you did.

Athens · Nov 18, 2011, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by hayesk

Still not an argument against them, just that you've been lucky so far, or you don't drive in snow or on ice very much. I just hope you don't hurt anyone else if your day comes.

By the way, everyone whose ever landed in the ditch the first time because of poor winter traction, said the same thing you did.

I was never against them. I said its good to have in cold environments even if it does not snow because of the softer rubber is designed for better grip in rain and ice. I was pointing out that skill is more important then the tires. A idiot on the road or some one with no skill in winter conditions is going to crash or will have issues. Good snow tires or not it wont compensate for lack of skill. Not my fault that some people think all you need is snow tires which is wrong.

ShortcutToMoncton · Nov 19, 2011, 08:49 AM

Everyone knows what you're saying.

What everyone is pointing out is that if you have "skill", then you'll still be a better driver with snow tires vs. without.

At the end of the day it comes down to simple physics. And the fact is, four bald allseasons on a Prelude would be 90% useless for much of the winter driving anyone would see outside of mild, rainy Vancouver, and would be incredibly dangerous to yourself and everyone around you to boot.

Nov 19, 2011, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

I was never against them. I said its good to have in cold environments even if it does not snow because of the softer rubber is designed for better grip in rain and ice. I was pointing out that skill is more important then the tires. A idiot on the road or some one with no skill in winter conditions is going to crash or will have issues. Good snow tires or not it wont compensate for lack of skill. Not my fault that some people think all you need is snow tires which is wrong.

Nobody is disputing that. What we're saying is if a driver is as "skilled" as he thinks he is, then he knows to use the proper equipment when doing the task. i.e. If you drive in winter conditions without winter tires, you aren't as skilled as you think you are. And quite honestly, I'll take an average driver with winter tires over an "expert" without them in many cases.

amazing · Nov 19, 2011, 03:57 PM

"Skill" also means knowing when to drop the discussion/thread...

Getting back to the OT, yes, snow tires are worth the investment when you live with snow/ice (eg not in Florida...)

End of discussion!

Eug · Nov 23, 2011, 06:51 PM

Some are advertising all weather tires now too.

The claim is better winter ice/snow traction than the best all seasons, but with decent summer performance, and decent mileage as well. A few reviewers have claim they do in fact have shorter stopping distances in the winter, but I haven't seen that much about these tires otherwise. Could just be a gimmick, I dunno.