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Leopard Server. Couple of questions
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NeverTriedApple
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Jul 22, 2008, 09:13 PM
 
Hey guys,

got myself a copy of Leopard Server today and although slogan says 'no IT department required' I feel total lack of knowledge in configuring the OS and need some help.

1. Hostname in email address. My server is named 'mail' and FQDN is 'mail.domain.com'. All users are getting '[email protected]' instead of '[email protected]'. What is the way to change it once and for all? I followed the setup and entered my information correctly: domain - domain.com, hostname - mail.domain.com. What's wrong?

2. I tried adding second email domain to virtual hosting (ServerAdmin - Server - Mail - Advanced - Hosting - Enable Virtual Hosting) as I read so in Apple discussions. However what is Local Host Aliases for (located just above in the same window)? There was 'localhost' only, should I add my two domain names (1 default, 1 virtual) there too? (I did so anyway in order to get incoming emails but still not sure why I need virtual hosting then)

3. I know I spent only couple of hours with the server so can anyone recommend good paper book on installing/configuring X Server? I am a bit confused with complexity of the task.

Many thanks
     
ibook_steve
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Jul 22, 2008, 10:09 PM
 
1) I haven't used Leopard server, but hostname usually would be just "mail" not "mail.domain.com."

Steve
Celebrating 10 years and 4000 posts on MacNN!
     
NeverTriedApple  (op)
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Jul 23, 2008, 07:36 AM
 
Correction: in there it was Primary DNS Name not hostname. So i had to use mail.domain.com. Any ideas?

many thanks
     
Sherman Homan
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Jul 23, 2008, 11:57 AM
 
The bit about "No IT department required" is a bit of a stretch. However, Apple's documentation really is excellent:
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/resources/
There is a ton of info there!
I am not quite clear on your particular question, ibook_steve is right the hostname is a unique individual name like 'mail'. Setting up DNS is the complicated part of the deal. But the terminology is nearly identical to industry standards.
( Last edited by Sherman Homan; Jul 23, 2008 at 12:16 PM. Reason: kant tipe)
     
besson3c
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Jul 23, 2008, 12:07 PM
 
In your terminal show us the output of:

sudo postconf -n | grep myhostname
sudo postconf -n | grep mydomain

Sorry, I don't know what to click on in OS X Server to do this, but I can help you via the command line if you aren't getting far with the GUI.
     
NeverTriedApple  (op)
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Jul 23, 2008, 12:46 PM
 
Guys thanks for your answers.

Today i spent nearly two hours on the [free]phone with AppleCare and got some answers.

In short, Apple introduced Standard and Workgroup server types in Leopard in addition to Advanced used in Tiger. That where confusion starts because none of these including Advanced was designed to be running out of the box like Windows Small Business Server for instance, where wizards take care of all internal settings for you.

All I wanted from the server was multiple email domain support (collection of emails for mycompany.com and myothercompany.com) and built-in AV / Antispam protection. All could have been achieved with Linux but I thought I didn't have time to learn and simply bought a copy of Leopard Server.

Things didn't turn too well as I guess I will need to learn how to configure it's advanced side and it won't be as easy and flawless as wizards in Small Business Server from MS. Like I said, Standard and Workgroup are no good at all - if you want more complicated tasks to do (like to add second email domain), you have to go Advanced. This was the answer of Apple Care. Go figure.

Now before I dig into Leopard re-configuration (will have to reinstall anyway), can someone pls outline what steps I do in order to get everything right:

1. Install Advanced version of server (no services will be running, nothing will be configured)
2. Configure DNS first
3. Configure LDAP second
4. Add Virtual Hosting for the second domain.
5. Add Users

Is it all or I left anything out? Also is it a right order of configuring things?

Thanks guys
     
NeverTriedApple  (op)
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Jul 23, 2008, 12:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
In your terminal show us the output of:

sudo postconf -n | grep myhostname
sudo postconf -n | grep mydomain

Sorry, I don't know what to click on in OS X Server to do this, but I can help you via the command line if you aren't getting far with the GUI.
Here's the output. I guess it is irrelevant now after I learned that Standard server type will have 'myserver' prefix in email address for intercompany communications (between the users connected to this particular machine). You seem like can't just get rid of it and have to do Advanced installation.

sudo postconf -n | grep myhostname
mydestination = $myhostname,localhost.$mydomain,localhost,mycompan y.com,myothercompany.com
myhostname = mail.mycompany.com

mail:~ admin$ sudo postconf -n | grep mydomain
mydestination = $myhostname,localhost.$mydomain,localhost,mycompan y.com,myothercompany.com
mydomain = mycompany.com
mydomain_fallback = localhost
     
besson3c
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Jul 23, 2008, 12:58 PM
 
I have no idea why Apple would have you setup LDAP for something like this, but here is how you would do this on a more standard Unix server:

1) setup DNS, set MX records to mail.yourdomain.com

2) Setup Postfix with myhostname and mydomain configured to reflect mail.yourdomain.com

3) Setup a Postfix virtual address map so that Postfix knows where to deliver mail sent to: [email protected],
[email protected], etc. Add your domains to the relay list, restart Postfix

4) Setup the virtualhosts in Apache


Honestly, I would really suggest learning this stuff. There are many ways you can setup an insecure mail or web server just by mucking around and stabbing at this blindly in-the-dark. In general, Apple designs their stuff so that you can be blissfully ignorant of these sort of things as long as you remain in the confines of their GUI, but if you are having to go outside of Apple's GUI, this becomes much harder and OS X rapidly becomes a PITA. At this point, it would be in your best interest to actually understand what these settings are rather than just following some guide that a guy on the internet gave you, or you found.

I don't mean to make you feel fearful about this, being fearless is good, you should be fearless, this is totally within your grasp. However, if you do have to go outside of Apple's GUIs, it is best to understand what are you doing - if not for security reasons, but to be able to easily reproduce your work. Do you have a backup system in place?
     
besson3c
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Jul 23, 2008, 01:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by NeverTriedApple View Post
Here's the output. I guess it is irrelevant now after I learned that Standard server type will have 'myserver' prefix in email address for intercompany communications (between the users connected to this particular machine). You seem like can't just get rid of it and have to do Advanced installation.

sudo postconf -n | grep myhostname
mydestination = $myhostname,localhost.$mydomain,localhost,mycompan y.com,myothercompany.com
myhostname = mail.mycompany.com

mail:~ admin$ sudo postconf -n | grep mydomain
mydestination = $myhostname,localhost.$mydomain,localhost,mycompan y.com,myothercompany.com
mydomain = mycompany.com
mydomain_fallback = localhost

I can help you with Postfix, but checkout my last message to be sure that you want my help knowing that I haven't mucked around with Apple's GUIs in a very long time.

Are you aware of the differences between envelope/return path and header information? Are you aware that you *want* your envelope address to be set as mail.yourcompany.com, and that what your mail headers look like (i.e. from address) is defined by the email client you are using?
     
NeverTriedApple  (op)
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Jul 23, 2008, 01:13 PM
 
I see what you mean. The reason I bought the Apple Server was it's seemingly easy ability to configure things without user's intervention. I was contemplating between learning to configure Suse Enterprise mail server or getting a copy of Leopard to see if it could be setup with a click of a mouse. Looks like I am back to square one: paid for a copy of the server that requires as much attention to setup as Linux when both share the same set of opensource utilities.

Backup was another reason I went for Apple. Time machine seemed to be a solution to backup entire server and I was not sure Linux would do that 'out of the box'. I knew I would not be able to use my SCSI tape drive with Apple but I bought external RAID 1 appliance that connects to Mac via FireWire and should do the work.

Learning stuff properly is always good and the only way to go, but all I want is a tiny little mail server with backup capability that does not require a lot of attention and administration.
     
NeverTriedApple  (op)
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Jul 23, 2008, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I can help you with Postfix, but checkout my last message to be sure that you want my help knowing that I haven't mucked around with Apple's GUIs in a very long time.

Are you aware of the differences between envelope/return path and header information? Are you aware that you *want* your envelope address to be set as mail.yourcompany.com, and that what your mail headers look like (i.e. from address) is defined by the email client you are using?
I am not aware that I *want* envelope to be set that way, no However when I entered Webmail it did appear in that awkward way which I guess is somewhat incorrect. One should be able see, reply or forward with regular address in Webmail if Apple decided to implement it, right? I am going to study some material before firing up question. Thanks for your replies, I guess at this point I don't want any command line postfix commands since you said Mac GUI would not be okay with that.
     
besson3c
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Jul 23, 2008, 01:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by NeverTriedApple View Post
I see what you mean. The reason I bought the Apple Server was it's seemingly easy ability to configure things without user's intervention. I was contemplating between learning to configure Suse Enterprise mail server or getting a copy of Leopard to see if it could be setup with a click of a mouse. Looks like I am back to square one: paid for a copy of the server that requires as much attention to setup as Linux when both share the same set of opensource utilities.

Backup was another reason I went for Apple. Time machine seemed to be a solution to backup entire server and I was not sure Linux would do that 'out of the box'. I knew I would not be able to use my SCSI tape drive with Apple but I bought external RAID 1 appliance that connects to Mac via FireWire and should do the work.

Learning stuff properly is always good and the only way to go, but all I want is a tiny little mail server with backup capability that does not require a lot of attention and administration.

If you are getting stuck here, I might suggest FreeBSD or CentOS. There are a ton of guides that explain how to do what you want for these OSes.

Generally speaking, while it is possible to backup an entire Unix OS, popular backup approaches are one of the following:

1) Backup configuration files and user data, rely on easy OS provided binary installers/package management to reinstall OS and services, bring over backed up configuration files

2) Put entire server in a virtual machine, backup the VM image (either via snapshots or by simply copying the entire image)
( Last edited by besson3c; Jul 23, 2008 at 01:52 PM. )
     
besson3c
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Jul 23, 2008, 01:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by NeverTriedApple View Post
I am not aware that I *want* envelope to be set that way, no However when I entered Webmail it did appear in that awkward way which I guess is somewhat incorrect. One should be able see, reply or forward with regular address in Webmail if Apple decided to implement it, right? I am going to study some material before firing up question. Thanks for your replies, I guess at this point I don't want any command line postfix commands since you said Mac GUI would not be okay with that.
I don't know what the Mac GUI would be okay with. In theory, one would hope that the GUI would accurately reflect any manual changes you make and would not override them, but I cannot guarantee that. In general, most good sys admins that I know steer away from GUIs and servers for this and other reasons.

What Webmail is provided? Squirrelmail? Or, did Apple develop their own? There should be a place in there for setting the user's return/from address. You want to separate your traffic so that mail.yourdomain.com receives mail rather than yourdomain.com, in case you wish to separate your mail and web servers at some point. If you cannot fathom a scenario in which this would ever be desirable, you could just set your MX record to yourdomain.com, and scrap the mail subdomain.
     
Sherman Homan
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Jul 23, 2008, 01:47 PM
 
There is a 'wizard' that should have come up when you first installed. It should walk you through the basics of DNS, DHCP, and LDAP. Adding a second domain is beyond the scope of the 'wizard', but it is fairly easy to do, search the PDFs for virtual hosting instructions.
     
NeverTriedApple  (op)
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Jul 31, 2008, 07:57 AM
 
I have managed to resolve all the issues by installing Advanced server type and configuring them services manually. The taks is not easier than configuring Linux server.

That training book for X server by Regan and Pugh is written half way. Mail service chapter for instance is the smallest in the book and unless you google after figuring out mail doesn't come through, you will never know that you've got to add your mail domain to local host aliases in mail preferences. This is a bit disappointing especially when you see 'Apple Certified' logo on it.

Anyway, the server is working okay now, no complaints.
     
   
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