[ghporter]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

No, I'm saying the ⌦ key is the forward delete key (use a Mac to view my post – a Windows machine might not be able to display the symbol correctly). You can see this key in this picture of a Mac compatible keyboard (Apple's keyboard has the same layout, but I couldn't find a picture of it). The forward delete key is the bottom left key in the block with help, home, end and page up/down.

If you are on a notebook, this block and the number block are not in the keyboard for space reasons. On an Apple notebook you need to press the keys fn and backwards delete at the same time for forward delete. The fn key is in the bottom left of the keyboard.

That must be it; I haven't played with a full-size Mac keyboard in a LONG time. I certainly expect the Kingston Mac/PC keyboard I got for my (soon to be purchased) Mini will then do what I want when I press the del key on the keyboard.

See, that's what I mean about figuring this stuff out-the manual that came with the iBook didn't make a big deal of the fact that the del key was not present (and it certainly isn't) on the laptop's keyboard. There isn't even a function key combination (that I can find) to replace it. At least I'm not missing an obvious key...

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

If you'd read the thread TETENAL you'd see that even YOUR short cuts are NOT as the ones experienced by mAxximo or other Americans. Whatever the reason is our factory defaults seem to be DIFFERENT. This isn't rocket science.

So to put it another way: since the three of us have different key combinations to do the same thing and the three of us have the same version of Safari and the three of us have the same version of OS X and the three of us are using factory settings then WHAT could be causing this difference?

My patience is wearing thin concerning the lame suggestions offered here. Take my word for it, I'm good for it: over here Command+left/right arrow is the default factory setting for Safari 2.0 to switch between tabs.

End of story.

I'm an American. I manage all the computers at my work as well as a lab at a local school, as well as owning several myself. It is command-shift-arrow to switch tabs on all these computers. mAxximo says he has the same shortcut as me. You seem to be the odd man out, dude.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ghporter

See, that's what I mean about figuring this stuff out-the manual that came with the iBook didn't make a big deal of the fact that the del key was not present (and it certainly isn't) on the laptop's keyboard. There isn't even a function key combination (that I can find) to replace it. At least I'm not missing an obvious key...

Fn-delete doesn't work on an iBook? It does on my PowerBook.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by ghporter

See, that's what I mean about figuring this stuff out-the manual that came with the iBook didn't make a big deal of the fact that the del key was not present (and it certainly isn't) on the laptop's keyboard. There isn't even a function key combination (that I can find) to replace it. At least I'm not missing an obvious key...

You were already told about the key kombination to get forward delete several times in this thread – including my post which you even quoted.
I guess a manual telling you one more time would be a futile attempt as well anyway.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I'm an American. I manage all the computers at my work as well as a lab at a local school, as well as owning several myself. It is command-shift-arrow to switch tabs on all these computers. mAxximo says he has the same shortcut as me. You seem to be the odd man out, dude.

It hardly matters. The way I described it is the way it was installed off my Apple Mac OS X Tiger DVD. I really don't care why, but there you go. I'm glad actually because CMD+shift+arrows would be more inconvenient. CMD+arrows is much better. Sometimes it is good to be the odd one out

cheers

W-Y

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Fn-delete doesn't work on an iBook? It does on my PowerBook.

I haven't tried any Fn combination on any key that has only one legend. All the keys that obviously have a Fn function are marked, but the Delete key just says "Delete." It just doesn't make sense to have a key with more than one function not marked for all its functions when so many others ARE marked for their functions, so why would anyone try it? Anyway I did just try it and yes it does work. Why didn't they just put the little legend on the key and save me all the hassle I've gone through?

Originally Posted by TETENAL

You were already told about the key kombination to get forward delete several times in this thread – including my post which you even quoted.
I guess a manual telling you one more time would be a futile attempt as well anyway.

We got the iBook over a year ago, and this thread started on Saturday. That's a LONG time to NOT get the information I wanted.

Overall I love the iBook and Mac OS, but there are quirks that bother me. This is one of them...

[awaspaas]

file:///Applications/Safari.app/Contents/Resources/Shortcuts.html

[awaspaas]

Nonetheless, cmd-shift-right/left switches tabs for me and cmd-right/left goes through history. Not sure what W-Y's computer is smoking.

[Squozen]

Cmd-Shift-right/left is the default keystroke to move to the start or end of a line in a text field, which is why Safari 2.0 changed to Cmd-Shift-[]. You'll find that Cmd-Shift-arrows still work *unless* you're in a text field.

I have no idea what W-Y is doing, but Apple's official shortcut for changing tabs in Tiger can be found here: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301115

If you've found a bug, W-Y, report it to Apple.

[ShotgunEd]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I haven't tried any Fn combination on any key that has only one legend. All the keys that obviously have a Fn function are marked, but the Delete key just says "Delete." It just doesn't make sense to have a key with more than one function not marked for all its functions when so many others ARE marked for their functions, so why would anyone try it? Anyway I did just try it and yes it does work. Why didn't they just put the little legend on the key and save me all the hassle I've gone through?
We got the iBook over a year ago, and this thread started on Saturday. That's a LONG time to NOT get the information I wanted.

Overall I love the iBook and Mac OS, but there are quirks that bother me. This is one of them...

I don't think you can call an undocumented feature a quirk.

Why not try and press fn and a key? I found out fn-backspace = del within a day of first playing with an Apple laptop.

Every key has an alternate character that can be typed using an alt, or a shift-alt key combo. Do you want all these characters marked on the key?

I had said in a different thread that my percieved difference between Mac and PC users is that Mac users will click things and press buttons to find out what happens. In my experience PC users are too scared they'll break something to do this. I guess you are the exception that proves the rule.

[angelmb]

Different shortcuts between different languages, that easy, check this pict, Safari 'Window' menu: english version versus spaniard version.

[JLL]

And how do you go to the beginning and the end of a line on a Spanish layout?

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by JLL

And how do you go to the beginning and the end of a line on a Spanish layout?

With my Apple Pro Keyboard (black keys), there are a couple of keys under F14, with a diagonal arrow that let you go to the beginning and the end of a line. I think they are the US keyboard 'Home' and 'End' equivalent.

[JLL]

Yes, they are Home and End on US (and Danish) keyboards.

[andreadeca]

Originally Posted by budster101

Portugal. I'm going to have to write to Apple and have them open a store for you. Don't think I won't do it either, and don't believe for a second that it won't happen. They can open one in China.

Budster, China is THE largest growing market for computers in the world: take the rest of the world, put it together, at it would not come close to the market computers have and will have in China in the next few years.
Apple could open 500 apple stores in china and they still would not be enough.

Andrea

[budster101]

Now all they have to do is figure out how to make the people who WORK IN THOSE STORES actually take care of their customer's needs!!!

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by ShotgunEd

I don't think you can call an undocumented feature a quirk.

Why not try and press fn and a key? I found out fn-backspace = del within a day of first playing with an Apple laptop.

Every key has an alternate character that can be typed using an alt, or a shift-alt key combo. Do you want all these characters marked on the key?

I had said in a different thread that my percieved difference between Mac and PC users is that Mac users will click things and press buttons to find out what happens. In my experience PC users are too scared they'll break something to do this. I guess you are the exception that proves the rule.

Well considering how user friendly all the rest of the iBook is, I never thought that anything but some accented character would come from an Fn combination with the un-Fn-marked keys. I have been a PC user since 1985, and I'm not afraid to hurt anything from the keyboard, but since everything else seems to be so straightforward and logical in Macs, this sort of thing just slid right by me.

[Chuckit]

I think I figured it out by analogy with return/enter. But you're right, it ought to be marked.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by angelmb

Different shortcuts between different languages, that easy, check this pict, Safari 'Window' menu: english version versus spaniard version.

[img]**snip

Justamente.

I hinted at the solution in a previous post:

Originally Posted by W-Y

So to put it another way: since the three of us have different key combinations to do the same thing and the three of us have the same version of Safari and the three of us have the same version of OS X and the three of us are using factory settings then WHAT could be causing this difference?

Then what could be the *only* difference? Even theoretically.

This was a futile attempt to make US users to think outside the box. Should have known better.

The difference is that I am using OS X in Spanish, installed it originally in Spanish etc. Different language, different shortcuts.

angelmb of course has the advantage of using OS X in Spanish as well so he realized this immediately

PS. I admit I had no idea that the shorcut for this feature was different in the US install of OS X, but as soon as it was mentioned by US users, it was the obvious thing. I laughed and laughed when the «technical gurus» here could only suggest my computer was smoking something or that I was pressing some keys unconciously.

cheers

W-Y

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by JLL

Yes, they are Home and End on US (and Danish) keyboards.

..and home and end on Spanish keyboards and on all mac keyboards. The keys don't change names after countries.



cheers

W-Y

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

..and home and end on Spanish keyboards and on all mac keyboards. The keys don't change names after countries.

cheers

W-Y

But that keyboard is a Matias Tactile Pro, right?, there are no localizations available for it, but you can get a spanish keyboard from Apple like the one I have. Please note it has no 'home' nor 'end' labels, the same happens for 'page up' and 'page down' keys, and there is an 'ayuda' (Help) labeled key.

[Weyland-Yutani]

That is right angelmb, that is a Tactile Pro. It was just for illustration.

The “home” and “end” keys aren't translated, they are just diagonal up and down arrows. They look the same in any Mac keyboard anywhere in the world. They are also found in exactly the same place, or under the F14 key. “Page up” and “Page down” on their right, exactly as in the picture in your post above.

Given that, I don't understand the comment by JLL: “Yes, they are Home and End on US (and Danish) keyboards.” - as if they are anything else in the Spanish Mac keyboards.

Unless JLL meant the actual function of the “Home” and “End” keys was different from the function in the Spanish keyboard then I have no idea what he meant. If he did mean that the function was different, it wasn't very clear, hence my confusion.

cheers

W-Y

[TheSpaz]

Hitting the Spacebar in Safari is Page Down and Shift-Spacebar is Page Up.... pretty cool.

Also, you can drag images directly from Safari onto Preview or Photoshop for editing... that's pretty neat. It only works in Tiger though.

[SMacTech]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

It's command-shift left or command-shift right arrow to switch tabs. You are pressing the shift key (unconciously as it seems).

Works like that for me too on brand new PowerBook.

[JLL]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Unless JLL meant the actual function of the “Home” and “End” keys was different from the function in the Spanish keyboard then I have no idea what he meant. If he did mean that the function was different, it wasn't very clear, hence my confusion.

Yes, I meant the function. Home and End on most Mac OS X languages mean top and bottom of a document and not start and end of a line.

[11011001]

The simplete shortcut for delete forward is:
ctrl-d

Here is one most people probably don't know about.. or for that matter care about.. but you can use most of the common Emacs commands in most text fields (so, Safari, TextEdit, Mail.. etc).

I personally love the shortcuts. They are

ctrl-f - move forward a character
ctrl-b - back a character
ctrl-p - move up a character
ctrl-n - move down a character
ctrl-a - move to start of line
ctrl-e - move to end of line
ctrl-d - delete forwards

There is no ctrl-space, ctrl-y stuff for cut and paste.

I was extremely delighted to find that I could enable all the common Emacs commands, including cut and paste, and save, in XCode. I also setup a ctrl-c for command completion instead of the annoying 0.5 second popup.

[SMacTech]

^^^ Great stuff there 110110001

thanks

[JLL]

Originally Posted by 11011001

The simplete shortcut for delete forward is:
ctrl-d

Here is one most people probably don't know about.. or for that matter care about.. but you can use most of the common Emacs commands in most text fields (so, Safari, TextEdit, Mail.. etc).

I personally love the shortcuts. They are

ctrl-f - move forward a character
ctrl-b - back a character
ctrl-p - move up a character
ctrl-n - move down a character
ctrl-a - move to start of line
ctrl-e - move to end of line
ctrl-d - delete forwards

There is no ctrl-space, ctrl-y stuff for cut and paste.

I was extremely delighted to find that I could enable all the common Emacs commands, including cut and paste, and save, in XCode. I also setup a ctrl-c for command completion instead of the annoying 0.5 second popup.

ctrl-t - 'drag' the character to the left of the cursor forward.

[andreas_g4]

I like switching tabs with the mouse… ^^ ^^

TheSpaz- That PS thing is cool, didn't know that!

[mAxximo]

Dragging stuff from browsers to PS and Illustrator is one of the great things the Mac could always do as opposed to PCs. I was doing it fine all this time in OS X too but now it's broken for Illustrator in both my Panther and Tiger machines. Everytime I try to drag something to Illustrator it pastes this text: “QuickTime™ and a TIFF (Uncompressed) decompressor are needed to see this picture.” WTF is that. It never required that decompressor before....

[analogika]

Yeah, you really should get on Adobe's ass about that. They've known that their stupid non-standard paste operations would break since the first Tiger betas...

[angelmb]

I can drag & drop the images in this topic to Illustrator & Photoshop CS versions, could be a CS2 issue?

[mAxximo]

I have CS in my Panther machine and CS2 in my Tiger one and I'm having this problem in both...Quicktime Pro is also installed. What could it be. You say that dragging i.e. your signature into Illustrator works fine?

[andreas_g4]

It does work on my machine. OS X 10.4.2, Photoshop CS and Illustrator CS.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

I have CS in my Panther machine and CS2 in my Tiger one and I'm having this problem in both...Quicktime Pro is also installed. What could it be. You say that dragging i.e. your signature into Illustrator works fine?

Yes, to drag my signature was one of the things I did to try if it was working, and it was OK. I don't think the behaviour is a QT Pro issue since I have upgraded it to the Pro version and it is working fine.

[Betox]

Option + Delete = Deletes the entire word!!!

[Detrius]

Originally Posted by Betox

Option + Delete = Deletes the entire word!!!

Dude, for a second there I thought you said it deletes the entire world! That's like deleting the internet on Windows!!!

[nuggetman]

option + delete deletes an entire word
option + arrow moves one word at a time (a la ctrl+arrow on windows... i missed that feature so much took forever to find out how to do it on a mac)

[broxy5]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

c'mon folks - it's not so complicated...

delete = delete backwards.
shift+delete = delete forwards.

....and fn + delete. This deletes behind while shift + delete wipes out the beginning.

[broxy5]

Oops, my bad. I reponded to something on the first page. Threads like this are great for newbies ( especially ones that doon't have any Mac friends).

I just dicovered cmnd + spacebar for spotlight, which didn't actually work on my ibook until I changed it in shortcuts. My wife just refuses to use shortcuts, or spotlight , for that matter. It's painful watching her look for something.

[andreas_g4]

Originally Posted by broxy5

My wife just refuses to use shortcuts, or spotlight , for that matter. It's painful watching her look for something.

Why?

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by andreas_g4

Why?

Why not? I had used a GUI for more than 3 years before I started to use shortcuts to any degree. I didn't have the time or inclination to learn it and the other method worked fine with me. Using shortcuts is very nerdy and not all people feel they need to be.

cheers

W-Y

[broxy5]

Well, it's just hard to watch someone compose an email and to attach, hit attach and painfully dig through folders to find what they are looking for. Best thing about this OS is how fast spotlight finds stuff.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Detrius

Dude, for a second there I thought you said it deletes the entire world! That's like deleting the internet on Windows!!!

"You have reached the end of the Internet. You have seen it all. Congratulations. Now go outside and play." Someday I'll see that message...

[Simon]

Originally Posted by 11011001

The simplete shortcut for delete forward is:
ctrl-d

...

ctrl-f - move forward a character
ctrl-b - back a character
ctrl-p - move up a character
ctrl-n - move down a character
ctrl-a - move to start of line
ctrl-e - move to end of line
ctrl-d - delete forwards

Yep, those Emacs shortcuts are awesome. But IMHO you forgot the two best.
ctrl-t - switches the letters to the right and left of the cursor
When I type fast it often happens that I get the order of two letters wrong like 'tpyo' instead of 'typo'. So I just get the cursor there, type ctrl-t and it's fixed.
ctrl-k - deletes the rest of the line to the right of the cursor
So, to delete an entire line you just press ctrl-a to get to the beginning and ctrl-k to delete it.

I just love every aspect of Emacs.

[Simon]

And regarding this whole discussion about delete and forward delete I was wondering why people chose this wording. Forward delete *is* delete and it's also the way Apple writes it on their keyboards. There is no forward delete because there's no such thing as reverse delete.

IIRC the proper wording is backspace for the ← and delete for the ⌦.

</nitpick>

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Simon

And regarding this whole discussion about delete and forward delete I was wondering why people chose this wording. Forward delete *is* delete and it's also the way Apple writes it on their keyboards. There is no forward delete because there's no such thing as reverse delete.

IIRC the proper wording is backspace for the ← and delete for the ⌦.

</nitpick>

The wording sure is clumsy, but when the "backspace" key (on our iBook) is labeled "Delete," it kind of forces one to phrase things carefully. I wish I'd had a non-laptop Mac first, so I could understand the differences ahead of time. Things would have been far less confusing.

[Simon]

Since when does Apple label the backspace 'delete'? The only delete on my Apple keyboards (PowerBook, BT KB, Extended KB, etc.) is the actual delete key, i.e. the one with the ⌦.

[andreas_g4]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Why not? I had used a GUI for more than 3 years before I started to use shortcuts to any degree. I didn't have the time or inclination to learn it and the other method worked fine with me. Using shortcuts is very nerdy and not all people feel they need to be.

cheers

W-Y

Shortcuts is one thing. But Spotlight has no learning curve, it just makes life easier.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by andreas_g4

Shortcuts is one thing. But Spotlight has no learning curve, it just makes life easier.