[Kerrigan]

President Obama calls African-Americans a ‘mongrel people’ - TheHill.com

Such an eloquent choice of words! I wonder if this came up on the teleprompter, or if this wonderful turn of phrase was impromptu.

[SpaceMonkey]

Man uses self-derogatory phrase in joking manner. Film at eleven.

Is this going to be one of those threads where white people complain that they can't use the words black people use without being perceived as racist?

[OAW]

Well he wasn't speaking just of himself and I wouldn't even characterize it as "derogatory". Though I agree ... clearly he said it in a lighthearted manner. Mongrel simply means "mixed". And it is true ... African-Americans are mixed. Without question.

Some of that mixing was by choice ... much of it was not. Some are mixed more ... some less. But on average African-Americans have approximately 25-30% European ancestry*.

In any event, I too hope this isn't going to be yet another faux racial controversy from the Fox News crowd. You'd think after this Shirley Sherrod affair here recently they wouldn't be so eager to make themselves look foolish. At least ... not so soon.

OAW

* And as quiet as its kept, approximately 30% of white Americans have some African ancestry.

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by OAW 

In any event, I too hope this isn't going to be yet another faux racial controversy from the Fox News crowd. You'd think after this Shirley Sherrod affair here recently they wouldn't be so eager to make themselves look foolish. At least ... not so soon.

You must be new here. (And by here, I mean the United States.)

[besson3c]

BREAKING: Obama does not have Justin Bieber on his iPod and does not know who Snooky is: Obama 'The View' Interview: President Talks Sherrod Firing, Afghanistan, Lindsay Lohan (VIDEO)

[SpaceMonkey]

BREAKING: Obama continues to play with African-American identity -- and our hearts.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Well he wasn't speaking just of himself and I wouldn't even characterize it as "derogatory". Though I agree ... clearly he said it in a lighthearted manner. Mongrel simply means "mixed". And it is true ... African-Americans are mixed. Without question.

Some of that mixing was by choice ... much of it was not. Some are mixed more ... some less. But on average African-Americans have approximately 25-30% European ancestry*.

In any event, I too hope this isn't going to be yet another faux racial controversy from the Fox News crowd. You'd think after this Shirley Sherrod affair here recently they wouldn't be so eager to make themselves look foolish. At least ... not so soon.

OAW

* And as quiet as its kept, approximately 30% of white Americans have some African ancestry.

If anything OAW, this underscores the double-standard in this country when it comes to race. Imagine if John Mccain uttered these remarks? I don't think its the Fox news crowd that looks foolish when one side of your mouth is screaming "Racist!" at everything that moves and the other is making or defending the making of crude racial jokes. By our president no less.

The tea party wants a colorblind society. Thats the only way we achieve equality. Until then, you can call me racist all you want, but it is not I who sees everything through a prism.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

The tea party wants a colorblind society. Thats the only way we achieve equality. Until then, you can call me racist all you want, but it is not I who sees everything through a prism.

That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time! A bunch of xenophobic white people looking for a colorblind society. Priceless.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time! A bunch of xenophobic white people looking for a colorblind society. Priceless.

Again, the best you can come up with are a couple of ad hominems and widely circulated photos of supposed actual racists at tea party events. They don't represent the views of the tea party, and I challenge you again to substantively prove me wrong.

The message remains - we should be striving for a colorblind society - not one that classifies people by race, even if it is for their benefit.

Oldmanmac, OAW:

Do you agree? Do you want a colorblind society?
What ideals are inherently racist that are coming out of the tea party? (Ad hominems won't suffice)

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time! A bunch of xenophobic white people looking for a colorblind society. Priceless.

Oh, and if you're going to hurl an insult, At least use the word correctly

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Is this going to be one of those threads where white people complain that they can't use the words black people use without being perceived as racist?

It would seem so. Well played, sir.

[ironknee]

tea party peeps have called blacks worse

[Snow-i]

Relevance? So have Liberals.

[besson3c]

Snow-i: do you think that being concerned about being overly political correct, such as jumping on somebody when they say something that may sound racially charged only out-of-context (such as, arguably, the original poster did even though the context was noted in the article), is damaging to amending racial tensions in this country? If so, to what extent?

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Relevance? So have Liberals.

oic

does that mean a lot of the tea party-ers are not on the same page about the color blindness thing?

when will they learn? may jesus help them

[BadKosh]

NAACP = A bunch of xenophobic black people looking for a colorblind society.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Well he wasn't speaking just of himself and I wouldn't even characterize it as "derogatory". Though I agree ... clearly he said it in a lighthearted manner. Mongrel simply means "mixed". And it is true ... African-Americans are mixed. Without question.

Some of that mixing was by choice ... much of it was not. Some are mixed more ... some less. But on average African-Americans have approximately 25-30% European ancestry*.

In any event, I too hope this isn't going to be yet another faux racial controversy from the Fox News crowd. You'd think after this Shirley Sherrod affair here recently they wouldn't be so eager to make themselves look foolish. At least ... not so soon.

OAW

* And as quiet as its kept, approximately 30% of white Americans have some African ancestry.

Well this is certainly an odd analysis. Using your logic, you'd think folks would be even less eager to defend the Administration that fired Sherrod prior to anything at all airing on Fox News. Maybe it's not about faux controversies and Fox News afterall. Maybe this Administration would do well to be a smidgen more disciplined in their hiring, firing, and rhetoric. I mean... as long as we're trying to "unite" the country and all.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Oh, and if you're going to hurl an insult, At least use the word correctly

I did use it correctly, but obviously you missed the point.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

NAACP = A bunch of xenophobic black people looking for a colorblind society.

That's completely wrong. And we'd be lucky if the latter part were true.

[andi*pandi]

If Sarah Palin can call herself a pit bull, Obama can refer to himself as a mongrel.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

NAACP = A bunch of xenophobic black people looking for a colorblind society.

The best information to come out of the Shirley Sherrod thing is how her audience, before knowing the end of her story, applaud and agree with the part where she was treating white people differently.

NAACP doesn't want a colorblind society, by the way. Maybe they did 50 years ago, but there's too much $ and power in it these days. If we were colorblind, the leadership over there would have to find real jobs.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

I did use it correctly, but obviously you missed the point.

Your point is lost on me - I don't subscribe to crass, racially charged one-liners.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

If anything OAW, this underscores the double-standard in this country when it comes to race. Imagine if John Mccain uttered these remarks? I don't think its the Fox news crowd that looks foolish when one side of your mouth is screaming "Racist!" at everything that moves and the other is making or defending the making of crude racial jokes. By our president no less.

Here's the key thing that I think you are overlooking. President Obama was asked about his background which is of mixed heritage. And he relayed how he struggled with that as a youth until he finally came to realize that African-Americans as a people are of mixed heritage to one degree or another. He talked about it in a light-hearted manner and it was received as such by the audience. Clearly he was not being inflammatory or "crude". And at the end of the day ... like it or not ... his words were undoubtedly true. Again ... context matters. For John McCain (who BTW is actually a very distant relative of mine) to "utter those remarks" would inherently be a very different context because he wouldn't be speaking of his own background.

You speak of a "double-standard" and I really don't think that's accurate. What I see is that members of a group can often say things about their group that might be perceived differently if they were said by someone outside of that group. This is not just a "black" and "white" thing. Hispanics, Chinese, Indians, males, females, families .... all kinds of groups do this on a regular basis. Words can be used amongst family members that if spoken by a non-family might be a problem. Women say things to each other that if they were said by a man might be a problem. That's because the history and the context is different. This is an across-the-board phenomenon that various groups do everyday. So I fail to see why it's such an issue when African-Americans do it?

But more specifically ... back on John McCain. The historical record in this country is filled with whites being on a "racial purity" kick. Not so much in modern times, but most definitely in the past. One drop of African blood made you black ... and that was the social order of the day for centuries. Quite often people of mixed-heritage were derided by the so-called "pure" whites ... so when they used the term "mongrel" it was being hurled as an insult. As a term of denigration. So if John McCain were to use that term, not in reference to himself or in his own heritage, but in reference to African-Americans ... it could easily raise eyebrows because of the history of that particular term being used by whites in a derogatory fashion towards African-Americans or other racial minorities. Even if he didn't mean it that way ... the risk of it being perceived with negative connotations is higher, despite the fact that he would be correct from a denotative perspective.

You can have groups of women get together and call each other "b*tch" left and right all in jokes and fun ... but let a man try to joke with them like that and there might easily be a problem. Double-standard? Depends on how you look at it I suppose. But like it or not ... that's just the way it is.

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

The tea party wants a colorblind society. Thats the only way we achieve equality. Until then, you can call me racist all you want, but it is not I who sees everything through a prism.

Well first of all I never called you a racist. Ever.

But as for your "colorblind" comment ... I disagree that that's the only way to achieve equality. Equality can be achieved simply by being fair. It doesn't require people to walk around pretending to be "blind" to each other's various backgrounds.

OAW

[OAW]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Well this is certainly an odd analysis. Using your logic, you'd think folks would be even less eager to defend the Administration that fired Sherrod prior to anything at all airing on Fox News. Maybe it's not about faux controversies and Fox News afterall. Maybe this Administration would do well to be a smidgen more disciplined in their hiring, firing, and rhetoric. I mean... as long as we're trying to "unite" the country and all.

I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at when you reference my "logic". But I will make the following points.

1. It is true that Ms. Sherrod was forced to resign prior to the edited video being shown on the Fox News cable channel. Not so much with the Fox News website and the right-wing blogosphere.

2. I for one didn't defend the Administration over the firing. In fact, the thread that I started about it was actually taking issue with the Administration for being such wusses in the situation and buckling out of fear of the Fox News channel having a heyday with the video (which they were admittedly going to do) without even bothering to look at the entire video to glean the context.

OAW

[ort888]

Why do all of these minorities insist on always talking about race? If this white middle class american from the suburbs can put race behind him, why can't they?

[OAW]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Why do all of these minorities insist on always talking about race? If this white middle class american from the suburbs can put race behind him, why can't they?

It seems to me that perhaps this question ought to be directed at Barbara Walters ... who the last time I checked was white ... for asking President Obama a race-related question in the first place?

OAW

[SpaceMonkey]

Obama is just doing his part:

Racial Slur Development Not Keeping Pace With Mixed-Race Births, Nation's Bigots Report | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[andi*pandi]

I've heard many people refer to themselves as mutts when asked about their heritage. "Oh, a little irish, a little russian, some eskimo on my mother's side, and grandma says her granddad was an illegitimate son of a french nobleman. I guess I'm a real mutt."

[The Final Dakar]

Honestly, if you're a politician, you're gonna have to drop the n word to catch my attention.

[OAW]

In an attempt to finally put this latest "faux racial controversy" to bed, perhaps people ought to take a look at the actual video and a transcript of the segment in question:

Barbara Walters: You do not describe yourself as a black president, but that’s the way you’re described. Your mother was white. Why—would it be helpful or why don’t you say: I’m not a black president, I’m biracial?

President Obama: Well, you know, when I was young and going through the identity crises that any teenager goes through I wrote a whole book [Dreams of My Father] about this you know.

Barbara Walters: Yes. We all read it.

President Obama: Part of what I realized was that if the world saw me as African-American, then that wasn’t something that I needed to run away from. That’s something that I could go ahead and embrace. And the interesting thing about the African American experience in this country is that we are sort of a mongrel people. I mean, we’re all kind of mixed up. Now, that’s actually true for white America as well but we just know more about it. And so I’m less interested in how we label ourselves and more interested in how we treat each other. And if we’re treating each other right, then I can be African American, I can be multi-racial, I can be—you name it. What matters is, am I showing people respect. Am I caring for other people. That’s, I think, the message that we want to send.

I contend that it will be most difficult to argue that the sentiment being expressed here is anything but honorable. But feel free to nitpick if you insist.

OAW

[SpaceMonkey]

Is OAW suggesting that respect, fairness, civility, and social harmony go hand-in-hand with empathy? Ridiculous!!!!11!!!

[ort888]

Barbara Walters: You do not describe yourself as a black president, but that’s the way you’re described. Your mother was white. Why—would it be helpful or why don’t you say: I’m not a black president, I’m biracial?

President Obama: Well, you know, when I was young and going through the identity crises that any teenager goes through I wrote a whole book [Dreams of My Father] about this you know.

Barbara Walters: Yes. We all read it.

President Obama: Part of what I realized was that if the world saw me as African-American, then that wasn’t something that I needed to run away from. That’s something that I could go ahead and embrace. And the interesting thing about the African American experience in this country is that we are sort of a mongrel people. I mean, we’re all kind of mixed up. Now, that’s actually true for white America as well but we just know more about it. And so I’m less interested in how we label ourselves and more interested in how we treat each other. And if we’re treating each other right, then I can be African American, I can be multi-racial, I can be—you name it. What matters is, am I showing people respect. Am I caring for other people. That’s, I think, the message that we want to send.

tl;dr

[hyteckit]

Is 'mongrel' a bad word?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

The tea party wants a colorblind society. Thats the only way we achieve equality. Until then, you can call me racist all you want, but it is not I who sees everything through a prism.

Don't we all want a colorblind society where people are judged "on the content of their character and not the color of their skin".

So, how can we go about achieving such an admirable goal?
What do we do about those groups that seek to use race as a divisive/destructive tool?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

Don't we all want a colorblind society where people are judged "on the content of their character and not the color of their skin".

So, how can we go about achieving such an admirable goal?
What do we do about those groups that seek to use race as a divisive/destructive tool?

We show some empathy, understanding, and act on common ground.

Some of the NAACPers are older black men who grew up in a time when there was very clear racism. They are understandably far more sensitive to and paranoid about racism exists. Racism still exists, so simply trying to make the claim that racism no longer exists or trying to get confrontational about their racism claims is probably going to be counter-productive.

Instead, assuring them that you understand that racism still exists, but you feel that the best way to lead us to a colorblind society is to be respectful (as Obama stated) and be respectful to the point where color is no longer relevant is a start. You might not get very far if they are not interested in being reasonable, but I guess my point is to show just a little bit of sensitivity and empathy. Try to imagine what life would have been like when you weren't allowed in certain establishments, and remember that it wasn't too long ago when this was common.

Also, when people go out and say things that are at best counter productive and at worst racist, you can demonstrate an intolerance to these viewpoints simply by trying to set a better and replace these backwards ideas with non-backwards ideas, or condemning these actions if these people are just blowhards looking for attention like an Ann Coulter or that guy in my Gay Nazi video or somebody else whom there is pretty much no hope for in terms of appealing to their reasonable side.

I don't know, just thinking outloud...

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I've heard many people refer to themselves as mutts when asked about their heritage. "Oh, a little irish, a little russian, some eskimo on my mother's side, and grandma says her granddad was an illegitimate son of a french nobleman. I guess I'm a real mutt."

THIS.

There are very few people in this country who are racially/ethnically pure. While my background is Irish on both sides going back to the 1820s I am sure there is some Celtic commingling going on prior to that in Ireland. Regardless, if I want to call myself an Irish mutt, that is my prerogative. If someone else wants to call me that, well, then some words will be had.

Fundamentally, this matter is about context-appropriate speech. I know my mixed-race niece* well enough that when she spends all Summer outdoors and gets darker, I can tease her about being Black only in the Summertime and she knows it is said in an affectionate way. But I would never say something like that to or about someone I didn't know really, really well.


*She will be in 10th grade this Fall and it is interesting to talk to her about what life is like in high school nowadays. The fact she is mixed-race is of absolutely NO significance whatsoever to any of her friends and classmates. I went to her 8th grade graduation and the kids all sat with their friends. The whole place was a multi-cultural assemblage without the self-selected segregation that was common in school when I was her age.

[Warren Pease]

I think all forms of communication should be tweets. It seems that 'context' no longer means an entire speech, or even a paragraph these days. Context ends at the end of the sentence (if even that far).

It's interesting that white people are so up in arms about Obama calling the one half of his heritage that they don't share with him a 'mongrel' race, but not the half that they do share with him.

Are black americans mad that he called white america a mongrel race as well?

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Warren Pease 

I think all forms of communication should be tweets. It seems that 'context' no longer means an entire speech, or even a paragraph these days. Context ends at the end of the sentence (if even that far).

Originally Posted by Warren Pease 

It's interesting that white people are so up in arms about Obama calling the one half of his heritage that they don't share with him a 'mongrel' race, but not the half that they do share with him.

Well you would actually had to see or read the entire exchange in order to know he made the same reference about white people. But all over blogs and forums that are trying to turn this into another "faux racial controversy" the headlines read Obama calls black people "Mongrels". Which is indicative of the disingenuousness of their "objections".

Originally Posted by Warren Pease 

Are black americans mad that he called white america a mongrel race as well?

I am certainly not the HNIC ... but it would appear not.

OAW

[OAW]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

Don't we all want a colorblind society where people are judged "on the content of their character and not the color of their skin".

So, how can we go about achieving such an admirable goal?
What do we do about those groups that seek to use race as a divisive/destructive tool?

Well I suppose that depends on what you mean by "colorblind". Personally, I think that there are those who have twisted the meaning of that quote by the the late, great Dr. King. If someone claims to be "colorblind" and that when they see me they don't see color ... then I will politely tell them that they need to get their eyes checked. However, if they say that when they see me they don't judge me or treat me unequally based on my color ... then they have understood the meaning of Dr. King's words.

In my view this "colorblind" notion is an unfortunate term that has been interjected into this area and erroneously ascribed to Dr. King. Being a visually oriented term it implies that Dr. King was advocating that people not "see" or "notice" each other's differences. That we should go around pretending that such differences don't exist ... when the reality is he never said that. What he said was that people shouldn't be judged based upon those differences. And that is a distinctly different proposition.

OAW

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Is 'mongrel' a bad word?

It sounds bad, so we are free to pass judgement without knowing what the word actually means. Don't you know anything?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

Don't we all want a colorblind society where people are judged "on the content of their character and not the color of their skin".

Unfortunately, no.

As we've seen, there are people who all too frequently want to yell about being judged not by their race, but then turn around at every instance and falsely claim others oppose them or their ideas BECAUSE of their race, or attempt to use the threatened label of 'racism' to silence opposition and debate. The real problem is, these backward thinking people have yet to realize they can't have it both ways, and are really only serving to make race an even bigger issue than it should be.

But then, those most guilty of it know exactly that. Without the crutch of labeling their opponents as 'racist' at every turn, they'd have to engage in the much harder task of actually defending their positions using reason, logic and facts, and accepting the rejection of their positions as simply that, rejection, not racism. In true 'Affirmative Action', fashion that's the harder route to take, and so these types aren't interested in a colorblind society. How could one play the race card if race doesn't matter?

[finboy]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Unfortunately, no.

As we've seen, there are people who all too frequently want to yell about being judged not by their race, but then turn around at every instance and falsely claim others oppose them or their ideas BECAUSE of their race, or attempt to use the threatened label of 'racism' to silence opposition and debate. The real problem is, these backward thinking people have yet to realize they can't have it both ways, and are really only serving to make race an even bigger issue than it should be.

But then, those most guilty of it know exactly that. Without the crutch of labeling their opponents as 'racist' at every turn, they'd have to engage in the much harder task of actually defending their positions using reason, logic and facts, and accepting the rejection of their positions as simply that, rejection, not racism. In true 'Affirmative Action', fashion that's the harder route to take, and so these types aren't interested in a colorblind society. How could one play the race card if race doesn't matter?

Golf claps.

[ort888]

Is it just me or is that entire tirade incredible hateful?

[kylef]

Barbara Walters: You do not describe yourself as a black president, but that’s the way you’re described. Your mother was white. Why—would it be helpful or why don’t you say: I’m not a black president, I’m biracial?

President Obama: Well, you know, when I was young and going through the identity crises that any teenager goes through I wrote a whole book [Dreams of My Father] about this you know.

Barbara Walters: Yes. We all read it.

President Obama: Part of what I realized was that if the world saw me as African-American, then that wasn’t something that I needed to run away from. That’s something that I could go ahead and embrace. And the interesting thing about the African American experience in this country is that we are sort of a mongrel people. I mean, we’re all kind of mixed up. Now, that’s actually true for white America as well but we just know more about it. And so I’m less interested in how we label ourselves and more interested in how we treat each other. And if we’re treating each other right, then I can be African American, I can be multi-racial, I can be—you name it. What matters is, am I showing people respect. Am I caring for other people. That’s, I think, the message that we want to send.

Bolded the only bits that matter.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Unfortunately, no.

As we've seen, there are people who all too frequently want to yell about being judged not by their race, but then turn around at every instance and falsely claim others oppose them or their ideas BECAUSE of their race, or attempt to use the threatened label of 'racism' to silence opposition and debate. The real problem is, these backward thinking people have yet to realize they can't have it both ways, and are really only serving to make race an even bigger issue than it should be.

But then, those most guilty of it know exactly that. Without the crutch of labeling their opponents as 'racist' at every turn, they'd have to engage in the much harder task of actually defending their positions using reason, logic and facts, and accepting the rejection of their positions as simply that, rejection, not racism. In true 'Affirmative Action', fashion that's the harder route to take, and so these types aren't interested in a colorblind society. How could one play the race card if race doesn't matter?

If one is not hired for a job because of their color (no matter what that color is), that's racist. If one is stopped driving a nice car because they're not a color that an officer deems can afford such a car, that's racist. There's a lot more racism going on in this country than your eyes obviously see, but you'll never admit that, because you have no facts. I've seen it my entire life, and I still see it today. When these, and many other instances, happen, those are all the facts, logic, and reason one needs to see; their reality is more important than your opinion.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

pfdfdfdfdp!

Congrats. Literally NOTHING you said had a thing to do with anything I said.

A perfect demonstration of another old fall back of the backward-mindset I was reffering too.

"CRASH said racism doesn't exist! Yes it does!!!"



Heaven forbid you ever had to THINK about anything (and then beyond that, actually comprehend), not just EMO.

[lpkmckenna]

We can't be a "color-blind" society for the same reason we can't be gender-blind.

[hyteckit]

I thought Mongrels were the half-bloods in the Harry Potter universe.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Congrats. Literally NOTHING you said had a thing to do with anything I said.

A perfect demonstration of another old fall back of the backward-mindset I was reffering too.

"CRASH said racism doesn't exist! Yes it does!!!"



Heaven forbid you ever had to THINK about anything (and then beyond that, actually comprehend), not just EMO.

Suffice it to say, I'm not the one with comprehension and thinking skill problems.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

We can't be a "color-blind" society for the same reason we can't be gender-blind.

As long as eyes are moving to and fro looking to be offended, they will never be disappointed.