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agentmouthwash · May 27, 2003, 02:25 PM

There is a lot of talk on the Rumor Sites about THEMES returning to the OS- like what we had in OS9. One thing I would love to see is the option to change the color of the APPLE
on the upper left hand corner. Wouldn't it be great to see the original rainbow Apple back on the tool bar?

Adam Betts · May 27, 2003, 02:34 PM

Apple never fully supported themes in OS9. They built a theme support in MacOS 8.6 beta but later removed it and left the engine there. Changing the color isn't called themes, it's called flavors.

OptimusG4 · May 27, 2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Apple never fully supported themes in OS9. They built a theme support in MacOS 8.6 beta but later removed it and left the engine there. Changing the color isn't called themes, it's called flavors.

Actually, I thought it was 8.5...but then again, I never used themes so I could be wrong. I think conflicts with Kaleidoscope were some reasons Apple pulled the plug on themes.

kovacs · May 27, 2003, 02:48 PM

I don't think we will ever see official support for themes and that's OK but they should make it easier for us, some kind of documentation about the extras.rsrc would be nice for example, but even that is unlikely, they got more important things to do....

Adam Betts · May 27, 2003, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by OptimusG4:
Actually, I thought it was 8.5...but then again, I never used themes so I could be wrong. I think conflicts with Kaleidoscope were some reasons Apple pulled the plug on themes.

Yeah I think you're right that it's in 8.5 not 8.6. No one can be sure why they pulled the plug on themes but I think they doesn't want to cause more confusion to people. Apple Support would have to rewrite their Help Book so it won't be theme-dependant like "Click on that gray button on the left" etc. Rewriting the Help Book would cost over millions of dollar.

Here are screenshots of old 8.5 themes for those who haven't seen it before:

voodoo · May 27, 2003, 02:53 PM

I'd like to see flavors rather than themes... well, I'd like to see an OS 9 theme

Steve?

Mac Guru · May 27, 2003, 02:55 PM

Not really, in OS 9's case they could have written in the manual, "describe what your windows look like" and if it wasn't OS 9 platinum, they just guide you through reverting it to platinum first

Mac Guru

::maroma:: · May 27, 2003, 04:21 PM

But we already have flavors, Graphite and Stoplight (or whatever it's officially called)!

Judge_Fire · May 27, 2003, 04:27 PM

Wasn't Church Windows pre - OS 8.5?

(Couldn't find much info on it, except for old listings like this.

J

derekn · May 27, 2003, 05:38 PM

Simple reason why Apple pulled themes. LOL They didn't exactly add to system stability. If you run anything other than Platinum in OS 8.5, 8.6 or 9.x.x and then try to run a DVD movie in full screen mode, whole system crashes. I couldn't find anymore beyond that but if you wanted to skin OS 9, Kaleidoscope seemed to be the most reliable.

As for Panther, I'd love to see themes in there.

The only thing would be if the format and tools to create the themes are open and fully available.

Nick_G · May 27, 2003, 07:31 PM

If those rumours about Panther having an all-metal interface are true then I want a theme where you can switch it off. I prefer Aqua.

WJMoore · May 27, 2003, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Nick_G:
If those rumours about Panther having an all-metal interface are true then I want a theme where you can switch it off. I prefer Aqua.

I can see no way why Apple would ever go fully metal. It does not make any sense. Especially considering how much they go on about how good Aqua looks. I would be very dissapointed if it went all metal, I still stand by the fact that Apple won't do it. Flavours on the other hand I think would be nice. If you could basically pick any colour instead of Graphite and Blue (or whatever it was called).

WM

ApeInTheShell · May 27, 2003, 10:04 PM

I would like if they kept the pinstripe look but added a blue gloss like the smoothstripes gloss theme.

how about brushed metal on professional machines and aqua on consumer machines?

Adam Betts · May 27, 2003, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by ApeInTheShell:
how about brushed metal on professional machines and aqua on consumer machines?

Apple already have a new theme in the making for professional apps:

Converted to a theme by Swizcore

voodoo · May 27, 2003, 10:57 PM

Looks kinda cool Adam. Very UNIX. But cool.

Superchicken · May 27, 2003, 11:13 PM

What about apps with nonstandard widgets?

That's my only concern. IE if parts of Photoshop are just tifs that look like Aqua what happens when you theam it?

moonmonkey · May 28, 2003, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
What about apps with nonstandard widgets?

That's my only concern. IE if parts of Photoshop are just tifs that look like Aqua what happens when you theam it?

They wont change.
You cant expect Apple to not introduce a feature because third party software has not been built correctly.

Also, do you know our operating system has a built in spell checker?

voodoo · May 28, 2003, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
They wont change.
You cant expect Apple to not introduce a feature because third party software has not been built correctly.

iTunes + QT player use nonstandard interface things.

moonmonkey · May 28, 2003, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by voodoo:
iTunes + QT player use nonstandard interface things.

Serves me right for being so condescending.

superblue · May 28, 2003, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by Nick_G:
If those rumours about Panther having an all-metal interface are true then I want a theme where you can switch it off. I prefer Aqua.

Well surely, here we have our first two themes? Aqua (or 'pinstripe' if you will) and Metallic... then perhaps a third might be the 'Pro' look mentioned a few posts earlier. And flavours could well be in the form of choosing colours for the apple, scrollbar widgets etc.

So maybe themes won't really be anything new at all, just a system preference pane for choosing between the metal/aqua we already know?

superblue · May 28, 2003, 01:45 AM

Ooh! and with that post I became a veteran - wahey!

agentmouthwash · May 28, 2003, 10:11 AM

Hey, all I want is a Rainbow apple icon instead of that blue one!

Who cares about themes...

mitchell_pgh · May 28, 2003, 10:49 AM

The reason many people come to check out OS X is because of the inviting eye candy. If we could theme, many people would do it effectively killing the consistency among systems. Considering we are already a minority, this (in my humble opinion) would be a bad thing...

P.S. There are already enough "would be" designers out there...

But then again, it wouldn't be bad as an OPTION (but that's how I feel about everything)

Webscreamer · May 28, 2003, 11:15 AM

iMovie, Safari...etc.

They all are just TIFs. They are gonna fOOk themselves by adding other colors(flavors)that they don't support. Better be an update for those apps too

dfiler · May 28, 2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Apple already have a new theme in the making for professional apps:

Converted to a theme by Swizcore

I think these 'themes' are a result of the heritage of these particular applications, not a new philosophy at apple. If apple were to completely change the UI after buying these apps, their user-base would likely revolt. The brushed metal 'theme' of iTunes is also left over from its pre-Apple development era.

Judge_Fire · May 28, 2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
The reason many people come to check out OS X is because of the inviting eye candy. If we could theme, many people would do it effectively killing the consistency among systems. Considering we are already a minority, this (in my humble opinion) would be a bad thing...

I'm all for consistency, but in the case of OS X I feel it isn't endangered, as users are confined to their own domain.

Like in our labs, every user logs in using a server distributed account. They see their stuff, while new or casual guest users see the default UI.

Or like myself, I work on three Macs, where I have customized my experience quite heavily, but any other/new user to the machine will still be in control of their own experience.

If themes will play along with this, then I'm all for them, too.

J

Superchicken · May 28, 2003, 03:19 PM

But if the App looks bad sadly it's a bad reflection on apple. I'd love to see a few apple made theams... but to be honest most third party ones suck...

ambush · May 28, 2003, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
But if the App looks bad sadly it's a bad reflection on apple. I'd love to see a few apple made theams... but to be honest most third party ones suck...

You can't even spell theme correctly. Whiner.

moonmonkey · May 28, 2003, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
You can't even spell theme correctly. Whiner.

He can't spell anything correctly.
He is only 12, and spends more time in Church than in School.

Must feel guilty about something.

Adam Betts · May 28, 2003, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
He can't spell anything correctly.
He is only 12, and spends more time in Church than in School.

Must feel guilty about something.

Heh

JLL · May 29, 2003, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by Webscreamer:
iMovie, Safari...etc.

They all are just TIFs. They are gonna fOOk themselves by adding other colors(flavors)that they don't support. Better be an update for those apps too

Safari uses the built in brushed metal.

kovacs · May 29, 2003, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
He can't spell anything correctly.
He is only 12, and spends more time in Church than in School.

Must feel guilty about something.

arekkusu · May 29, 2003, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
They wont change.
You cant expect Apple to not introduce a feature because third party software has not been built correctly.

That's true.

However, if you're inferring that Adobe Photoshop "isn't built correctly" you should take a closer look at the custom controls Photoshop uses.

Why do you think Adobe goes through the hassle of creating Aqua flavored widgets for palette flyout menus, popup combo box sliders, or spinedit combo boxes?

It's because Apple doesn't provide any widgets with the functionality Adobe wants.

So, you also can't expect third party developers not to introduce custom controls if Apple doesn't meet their needs.

BuonRotto · May 29, 2003, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by arekkusu:
It's because Apple doesn't provide any widgets with the functionality Adobe wants.

That's because Adobe is adopting the MS Windows UI for all of its applications. If Adobe wants to port its XP UI to OS X, it's their responsibility to make their own widgets to mimic it.

exa · May 29, 2003, 02:37 PM

Adobe's UIs are flawed anyway. I mean, for someone who doesn't use photoshop much, it is next to impossible to find the tool you want, and many other gripes. What's up with Adobe/Acrobat Reader's damn desire to full screen all documents anyway. Really annoying. Wish they'd stick to Apple's UI rules, because their custom UI blows.

arekkusu · May 29, 2003, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by BuonRotto:
That's because Adobe is adopting the MS Windows UI for all of its applications. If Adobe wants to port its XP UI to OS X, it's their responsibility to make their own widgets to mimic it.

Actually, Microsoft doesn't provide the controls I mentioned either. And Adobe has had the same custom controls for many years, well before XP.

Adobe had to invent them on both platforms. Some people would call this "innovation", other people would call it "not adhering to standards."

Originally posted by exa:
Adobe's UIs are flawed anyway... Wish they'd stick to Apple's UI rules, because their custom UI blows.

That's one opinion. I happen to think that, for example, the slider that pops out under the Opacity combo box in the Layers palette is incredibly useful and intuitive.

If Adobe only used Apple's (or Microsoft's) default controls to get the same functionality, many of the palettes and dialogs would need to be much larger and more cluttered than they currently are.

JB72 · May 29, 2003, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Changing the color isn't called themes, it's called flavors.

I could deal with "flavors." As long as they included some minor widget changes as well, I could live with that.

waffffffle · May 30, 2003, 05:52 PM

I think flavors are overdue. I want my computer to be tangerine and not blue aqua.

I also think that Apple should create a 3-key hotkey combo that would immediately toggles custom theming on and off (with results immediately effective in all running applications) so that a tech support person can tell users to type this key combo to turn off theming before attempting to talk a user through something.

quandarry · May 31, 2003, 03:55 AM

in 8.1 i believe...and it was called themes...in the control panel you could change the color of the scrolls and some other stuff and and a background to go with it...this changed in 8.5 with the theme engine and 'themes' which jobs pulled the plug on when he came back to apple...(i don't think he liked gizmo...heh)

themes in 8.1 were what you guys seem to be calling flavors and that's what i think panther will have...not themes as we have come to think just more flavors than blue and graphite....so you can have a purple 'theme' or yellow or snow or metal or green...

BuonRotto · May 31, 2003, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by arekkusu:
Actually, Microsoft doesn't provide the controls I mentioned either. And Adobe has had the same custom controls for many years, well before XP.

Adobe had to invent them on both platforms. Some people would call this "innovation", other people would call it "not adhering to standards."

I was mainly thinking of the button bars, which Adobe only adopted for PS 6 and later, but Ms has used for years. Adobe has its own tab system though, and of course the palette thing is original Mac OS. I don't think Adobe has gone to sidebars instead of palettes for most other apps just yet, so my assessment does seem a bit rash. It's just that Acrobat does use all this stuff ala MS save the tabs.

Zimphire · May 31, 2003, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:

Converted to a theme by Swizcore

That would have been a more obvious transition from Platinum than Aqua was. If Jag looks like that, I will have no need for themes.

Phoenix1701 · Jun 1, 2003, 03:11 PM

Since no one has answered the original question, it should be noted that it is quite possible to change the Apple menu logo. Download ThemePark, click on "pxm#", and filter the list (using the text field in the toolbar) to find "Root menu center". The resources in that list are all the various flavors of the Apple menu (aqua, graphite, etc.) Just click on one, then paste in your new icon from Photoshop or wherever (it'll have to be the same size). You might also want to change the selected variation (for when the Apple menu is open) as well. Note that, like system icons, pixmaps are divided up into an image and a mask. Use the original Apple menu as a template to figure out what the mask should look like. Have fun, and when you're done, you might as well keep going and theme everything else too.