[ringo]

Guerrilla Media Campaign...get out your magic markers and spray paint. Help cover the urban landscape in black spots of protest.

CONSUMERISM IS NOT CULTURE

More info here: http://www.unbrandamerica.org/

[spacefreak]

Branding has been around since the start of trade. Besides, I refuse to vandalize the property of others.

[mathew_m]

Vandalism is a criminal act. If you do not support brands then use your power as an individual consumer and do not purchase.

Like most of human kind you are a hypocrite and un-knowlingly support multiple brand names. You use a Mac computer. Most likely drive a particular car of your consumer choice and enjoy and eat food of paticular brands. The list goes on. Doesn't matter if you shop at Aldi's and drive a Ford Festiva...well if that's the case then you are pathetic.

[BasketofPuppies]

Methinks he's an engineer.

[dgs212]

Originally posted by mathew_m:
Vandalism is a criminal act. If you do not support brands then use your power as an individual consumer and do not purchase.

Like most of human kind you are a hypocrite and un-knowlingly support multiple brand names. You use a Mac computer. Most likely drive a particular car of your consumer choice and enjoy and eat food of paticular brands. The list goes on. Doesn't matter if you shop at Aldi's and drive a Ford Festiva...well if that's the case then you are pathetic.

Uh, Matthew, you're making totally inaccurate assumptions, most likely based on your limited personal exposure to various lifestyles inconsistent with that grand american dream of homogeneity. For example, it is entirely possible to live a full life without supporting multinational corporations. Just ask the billions of people on planet earth who don't live in North America and Europe. Second, even if one does live in Morth America or Europe, where the pervasiveness of corporate branding has left remarkably few alternativeness, one need not indulge in multi-national support. Buy your food from local farmers. Make your own clothes. Buy clothes from second-hand stores. Use a bicycle. There are a myriad of ways to be a functioning member of society without kowtowing to corporate pressures.
The point is that the resources and pressures giant corporations have at their command are threatening the ability to make individual choices, even in such critical and historicaly corporate-free arenas as healthcare and education, i.e. pharmacuetical companies supressing critical research via non-disclosure clauses in funding contracts (see below).
Unbrand America is an attempt to reclaim what should rightfully belong to everyone. Public spaces, sidewalks, etc. It is hard for me to understand why anyone would rather look at billboards and advertisements than trees and clouds.

(From above: perhaps you feel that strings-attatched research funding is the right of the funder. It's their money, they can do what they want. This would and should be true if the ultimate goal is the accumulation of the greatest amount of wealth possible. However, there is a more pressing matter at stake, namely human lives and human health. There must be a tipping point for each person when they decide that human lives are more important than capital gains. There is, naturally, a broad range of grey here.)

[mathew_m]

Originally posted by dgs212:
Uh, Matthew, you're making totally inaccurate assumptions, most likely based on your limited personal exposure to various lifestyles inconsistent with that grand american dream of homogeneity.

Uh, Buy a Clue.
I've lived in plenty of different environments and am well aware of the homogeneity of suburbia. Though you demeaning the American dream like this is pathetic.

For example, it is entirely possible to live a full life without supporting multinational corporations.

Hypocrite. Liar. False Prophet. What brand of computer are you typing this B.S. on? That's what I thought.

Just ask the billions of people on planet earth who don't live in North America and Europe.

And I betcha' if I offerered any one of them a Coke� or Evian� over some fresh well water they'd take me up on it. Well except you. Go ahead and martyr yourself. Just don't strap on a bomb.

Second, even if one does live in Morth America or Europe, where the pervasiveness of corporate branding has left remarkably few alternativeness, one need not indulge in multi-national support.

I never said I support branding unconditionally. In fact I refuse to wear certain clothing that bears grotesquely large logos. However as an individual consumer I wield my power by not purchasing.

Buy your food from local farmers. Make your own clothes. Buy clothes from second-hand stores. Use a bicycle. There are a myriad of ways to be a functioning member of society without kowtowing to corporate pressures.

And ride in a horse drawn buggy. Churn my own butter?.. I'm sorry are you Amish? You probably don't believe in wearing deodorant either. If that is the case then I advise to join the Rainbow People. You'll fit right in.

The point is that the resources and pressures giant corporations have at their command are threatening the ability to make individual choices,

Quit thinking for me and my fellow citizens. You're no different than the corporations. Worse because you actually claim to have a conscious.

even in such critical and historicaly corporate-free arenas as healthcare and education, i.e. pharmacuetical companies supressing critical research via non-disclosure clauses in funding contracts (see below).

See what below? You sound mis-informed.

Unbrand America is an attempt to reclaim what should rightfully belong to everyone.

B.S. By vandalizing public property you are claiming your right to be an assh*le. Also how is painting an ugly black blob any different? If you really wanted to get your point across, you'd paint pictures of the sky and clouds. Again you are a hypocrite.

Public spaces, sidewalks, etc. It is hard for me to understand why anyone would rather look at billboards and advertisements than trees and clouds.

I won't argue with you here. Except I understand that the United States was founded on Individual Ownership. If you don't like it start your own country or move out to the boonies. I still wager that you'll be shopping at WalMart.

(From above: perhaps you feel that strings-attatched research funding is the right of the funder. It's their money, they can do what they want. This would and should be true if the ultimate goal is the accumulation of the greatest amount of wealth possible. However, there is a more pressing matter at stake, namely human lives and human health.

Hmmm?
Are you talking about corporate waste disposal? America has the most stringent laws on this. If you don't like it move to Canada.

There must be a tipping point for each person when they decide that human lives are more important than capital gains.

I'm in charge of my own destiny. Knock on wood I haven't had to deals with HMO's, health insurance or any govt. bureaucracy concerning the aforementioned.

There is, naturally, a broad range of grey here.)

Yeah and you fail to even make an arguement. In fact what is your point?

[Spliffdaddy]

I couldn't find his point, either.


Heeeere!, point, point, point, point

where are ya, boy?

[MacGorilla]

Yes, branding has gone rampant but vandalism isn't the way to go. And you think America is bad? Walk down any street in Tapei, Taiwan and behold the glory that is unregulated advertising.

[daimoni]

.

[Axo1ot1]

I'm thinking of starting a huge corporation to market and distribute clothing that says "NO LOGO" on it.

Only fools cannot live the contradictions in life. I think it's definitely okay to live and operate within a society that you disaprove of in part. Just because my shoes were probably made by someone who was not paid a living wage doesn't mean I can't fight to change the situation for the better. Just because America's democracy has ben usurped by corporate influence doesn't mean it can't be reclaimed within the guidelines of the system.

If you want to de-brand America, start here.

[daimoni]

.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by dgs212:
Uh, Matthew, you're making totally inaccurate assumptions, most likely based on your limited personal exposure to various lifestyles inconsistent with that grand american dream of homogeneity.

My my my; starting out with ad hominem attacks and moving to stereotypes. This argument's going to be fun to eviscerate...

For example, it is entirely possible to live a full life without supporting multinational corporations.

Indeed, it is. But there's something I think you should consider. You worry about supporting multinational corporations because you consider it tantamount to mental slavery, if I understand you correctly. And there is something to be said to your position.

However, there is a school of thought that by deliberately railing against multinational corporations, you are every bit as much a mental slave, just to a different ideology. Homogeniety is a Bad Thing, yes, but are not the multinationals a part of the diversity of products out there as well?

Just ask the billions of people on planet earth who don't live in North America and Europe.

Oh, I certainly could. Though it should be noted that many people even outside these nations do support the multinationals, to varying degrees. Does this make them evil? Come to think of it, are multinationals themselves an inherently evil thing?

Second, even if one does live in Morth America or Europe, where the pervasiveness of corporate branding has left remarkably few alternativeness, one need not indulge in multi-national support.

"Alternativeness"? Is that a word?

I will assume you mean "remarkably few alternatives". However, at least from what I have seen, this is not true in any case, at least not where I live (the Washington, DC area). Now granted, perhaps my proximity to a major political center is giving me a somewhat clouded viewpoint; diverse viewpoints and products naturally crowd around such places. Wouldn't that be ironic, if diversity were blinding me to problems in our culture. Perhaps there is something to be said about that.

Buy your food from local farmers.

Why? What good does this do? This is an honest question.

Make your own clothes.

Believe me, you don't want me doing that.

However, I know several people who are more than adept at making their own clothes. They make some of their own clothes, and buy others. Are they evil for doing this? Do you make all your own clothes, for that matter? If not, why not? Something to think about.

Buy clothes from second-hand stores.

I have, on certain occasions. But believe it or not, I don't feel quite right doing this. I've seen great clothing in secondhand stores before, believe me; I have no illusions of secondhand clothing being somehow inferior. However, I'm fairly well-off, not rich by any stretch of the imagination but reasonably secure. Every piece of clothing I buy secondhand is a piece of clothing which could have been bought by someone who might not be able to afford it new. That weighs a bit on my conscience.

This is not, however, to say that I feel any kind of moral duty to buy my clothes new. I buy clothes that I like the aesthetics and comfort of, and I consider comfort the more important factor of those two. I don't care what brand I buy, if I buy a brand at all; I have one or two shirts from Abercrombie, and I have many shirts from no brand at all. It is exceedingly rare that I wear clothing with logos on it, because I find the concept ridiculous; when I do wear clothing with a logo it's because I've made a conscious choice to promote that product or cause (as with my OSX and DeCSS T-shirts).

Use a bicycle.

I like bicycles. At the moment, I don't live in an apartment with sufficient space to put one, unfortunately.

Even if I did, there would be the problem of getting to and from work. My job is still fairly new, and it took me months to find it. Are you going to tell me that I should be restricting my job search to a small geographic area?

There are a myriad of ways to be a functioning member of society without kowtowing to corporate pressures.

I do not kowtow to corporate pressures, nor do I rail vainly against them. Frankly, I don't care about them.
quote]The point is that the resources and pressures giant corporations have at their command are threatening the ability to make individual choices...[/quote]
In some markets, yes. You mention pharmaceuticals as one area in which this is certainly happenning; the legal-drug market is just as corrupt as the illegal-drug market, if not more so. However, I find it interesting that your suggestions about "not kowtowing to corporate pressure" have absolutely nothing to do with these areas.

even in such critical and historicaly corporate-free arenas as healthcare and education, i.e. pharmacuetical companies supressing critical research via non-disclosure clauses in funding contracts (see below).

Points taken, though education has never been an area where there has been much in the way of individual choice, particularly not in the primary-education level where it is needed most.

And by the way, the black-spot thing is still valdalism. While it is true that I don't like looking at billboards, neither do I like looking at black spots, particularly when I might not even know what the heck you're trying to say (and indeed I wouldn't, if you had not posted a link here).

Free speech is a Good Thing. But for crying out loud, if you want to speak then speak. Black spots by themselves say nothing, except perhaps that you're some jerk who likes to deface the property of other people (or, in the case of public property, of all people). You are drowning out your own message with your own voice, just like the idiots who lie down in the middle of the road or get naked in the park to protest wars.

You talk about your message being oppressed by The Man or The Media; no one is silencing you but yourselves. Think back to Gandhi or Martin Luther King, two of the most respected protesters of our modern age. What did they do? They spoke. They made their message loud and clear, without trying to clutter it up using insipid "special effects" or "shock value". They knew that their words, not their deeds, would be remembered in the hearts and minds of the people. And you know what? It worked. Perhaps you should be taking your lesson from them.

Or perhaps Louis Farrakhan should be your guide. For many years, he tried to inflame and incense people. And no one -outside of his own group, anyway- took him very seriously, and that only made him angrier. Then, he tried to organize an event he called the Million Man March, and it was the butt of jokes the world over, until he got up and spoke, and he was calm, and he spoke in a rational manner, and he made his message clear. And when he did that, people finally listened to him, and while the exact number of people who came to that march is up to debate, it left an indelible mark on the culture, and furthermore that mark was positive. Whole movies have been made about that event, and about the bonding experience it was for the people who were there, and while many of these didn't exactly make the mainstream, they were widely praised by critics.

Just something to think about. Perhaps you should be focusing on your message, rather than your medium. You may find that your message is brought across more effectively that way.

[dgs212]

Originally posted by Millennium:
My my my; starting out with ad hominem attacks and moving to stereotypes. This argument's going to be fun to eviscerate...

Indeed, it is. But there's something I think you should consider. You worry about supporting multinational corporations because you consider it tantamount to mental slavery, if I understand you correctly. And there is something to be said to your position.

Not quite. I am opposed to multinational corporations because they are not (by and large, although there are a few exceptions) bound by ethics or social accountability, yet wield an immensely disproportionate amount of power. This, I fear, is a recipe for disaster, as the citizens of Bhopal, India can attest to, to cite one very famous incident.

Oh, I certainly could. Though it should be noted that many people even outside these nations do support the multinationals, to varying degrees. Does this make them evil? Come to think of it, are multinationals themselves an inherently evil thing?

Nothing is inherently evil. It is our actions that determine how others perceive us. And while good and evil may, in fact, be societal constructs (and personally, I agree), my own societally constructed notion of evil includes things like destroying the environment, exploiting the poor, and not giving a damn.

"Alternativeness"? Is that a word?

nice cheap shot.


Why? What good does this do? This is an honest question.

Local farmers have a hard time competing with agri-business giants like con-agra and monsanto. By buying your food from local small-time farmers, you support their livelihood, insure that it is possible to obtain the variety of produce and livestock they grow and raise (heirloom tomatoes are a good example), be certain that all that goes into your food is sunlight, water, healthy feed, and natural fertilizers (no chemicals or horomones), and lastly, locally grown, in-season fruits and veggies taste so much better than food airlifted in from chile in the winter. It may be less convenient, but convenience isn't everything.

Do you make all your own clothes, for that matter? If not, why not? Something to think about.

Every piece of clothing I own is either: handmade, second-hand, or manufactured by what I feel are ethical companies. Sure, I never have the latest stylish FUBU jacket or Nike Air Force 1's, but who gives a sh*t? It's only clothing. It's so superficial. As long as it covers the parts of you it needs to and keeps you warm, that's enough. Anything else is a luxury, and many of us would do well to realize how fortunate we are.

Even if I did, there would be the problem of getting to and from work. My job is still fairly new, and it took me months to find it. Are you going to tell me that I should be restricting my job search to a small geographic area?

I'm not telling anyone to do anything. I can only do for myself, and let other people know they have options. If it's unrealistic for you to bicycle to work, take public transoprtation. Or at least carpool. I don't particular love riding six miles to and from work five days a week, especially when it's this hot out, but it's good exercise and it's better for everyone else.

You mention pharmaceuticals as one area in which this is certainly happenning; the legal-drug market is just as corrupt as the illegal-drug market, if not more so. However, I find it interesting that your suggestions about "not kowtowing to corporate pressure" have absolutely nothing to do with these areas.

Not true. If you'd read the part at the bottom of my post, you would've seen what I mean.


And by the way, the black-spot thing is still valdalism. While it is true that I don't like looking at billboards, neither do I like looking at black spots, particularly when I might not even know what the heck you're trying to say (and indeed I wouldn't, if you had not posted a link here).

Personally, I'm not so sure the black spot is a good idea either. On the one hand, it is defacing property. On the other hand, I'm not so certain that a company has the right to claim public space as their private property. Who trumps who here? At what point is my personal and public space infringed by the "right" of someone else to ad ertise something? A TV commercial is one thing, as they're avoidable; just don't turn on the TV. But I can't avoid urban public advertising unless I close my eyes, which can be very dangerous when you're riding a bike down a busy street. I don't want to look at advertisements. They're ugly, I have no use for the products being advertised, and I resent the constant bombardment. Why can't I walk down a street without constant reminders to spend! spend! spend! being blasted into my cerebral cortex? Why should the rights of a non-living entity to advertise their wares supercede my rights to a peaceful after-dinner walk?

You talk about your message being oppressed by The Man or The Media

No I didn't. You made that up.

Just something to think about. Perhaps you should be focusing on your message, rather than your medium. You may find that your message is brought across more effectively that way.

like I said, I'm not so certain the black dot is such a great idea. I'm not a spokesperson for AdBusters magazine (although I am a regular reader), or for anything else for that matter. I've never put up a black dot, although I have one sitting here on my desk all ready to go. I haven't put it up because it seems very superficial to me. Anyway, that's my take on all this.

[Zimphire]

Too bad I can't spray paint over this thread...

I guess someone always has to have a "cause"

[dgs212]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Too bad I can't spray paint over this thread...

I guess someone always has to have a "cause"

Zimphire, I love you.


(i'm a man...does that repulse you?)

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by dgs212:
Zimphire, I love you.


(i'm a man...does that repulse you?)

Naw, why would it?

Unless of course you are talking about ROMANTIC love..

And that wouldn't repulse me so much as give me the creeps.

And yes, if you was a girl, it would still give me the creeps.

[MacGorilla]

Originally posted by dgs212:
Zimphire, I love you.


(i'm a man...does that repulse you?)

Its Zimphire...need you ask?

[dgs212]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Unless of course you are talking about ROMANTIC love..

Yeah, that's what i mean. I'm in love with you.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by dgs212:
Yeah, that's what i mean. I'm in love with you.

You cheating bastard!

Didn't have the guts to tell me in person, huh?

Well, we're through. It's finished.

Don't call me anymore.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by dgs212:
Yeah, that's what i mean. I'm in love with you.

Ok, what, no flowers?

You can have him back Spliff.

[Spliffdaddy]

*snif*

no.

no, I don't want him back.

I could never trust him again...after catching him with a Christian, and all.

[dgs212]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
You cheating bastard!

Let's forget al this fussin' and get high.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by dgs212:
You talk about your message being oppressed by The Man or The Media

No I didn't. You made that up.

Forgive my poor phrasing. I did not mean that you personally said these things; I am quite aware that you haven't done so, at least not in any thread I've ever seen.

However, many people who have protested along these lines have claimed this. That was the sense in which I meant "you": I was trying to talk about the cause, which has often claimed that they were being somehow marginalized or silenced by "The Man" or "The Media". And that just isn't true; the truth of the matter is that they drown out their words with their own voices.

I've never put up a black dot, although I have one sitting here on my desk all ready to go. I haven't put it up because it seems very superficial to me. [/B]

By the way you wrote that, it would seem to imply that you printed the image out on a piece of paper, and intend to at some point post it as a sign. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem is the people who will be applying the black dots with spray paint, which will likely be the majority of the people who join in this protest. Most of these probably won't even bother putting in a website address or anything else to explain what the dot means, as though the whole world is somehow supposed to magically know what they're talking about. These are the people I talk about when I complain about protesters who don't say anything, because they don't even bother letting passersby know what their issues and arguments are. How do they hope to spread their ideas, if no one knows what they're even trying to talk about?

[itai195]

Originally posted by ringo:
Guerrilla Media Campaign...get out your magic markers and spray paint. Help cover the urban landscape in black spots of protest.

I hope you'll be using genuine Crayola(tm) markers!

Crayola(tm), bringing America's dreams to life since 1903.

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by mathew_m:
And I betcha' if I offerered any one of them a Coke� or Evian� over some fresh well water they'd take me up on it. Well except you.

you know... evian spelled backwards is Naive

[Axo1ot1]

Originally posted by daimoni:
Well, you could start by not supporting companies that do that.

I do. No Nikes on my feet.

I'm wearing newbalances that claim to be made in the US. Not everyone in the US makes a living wage.

[Millennium]

Not quite. I am opposed to multinational corporations because they are not (by and large, although there are a few exceptions) bound by ethics or social accountability, yet wield an immensely disproportionate amount of power.

Whose ethics? Whose concept of "social accountability"? Sounds to me as though this is just a group trying to force its viewpoint on others through law. While I can respect other viewpoints, I cannot respect those who would force their beliefs on those who would disagree.

[BasketofPuppies]

Should I feel bad about buying Nike running shoes from Sport Mart because it didn't have the better-looking (in my opinion) New Balances in my size?