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OB1 · Nov 30, 2006, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I am convinced now more than ever that the Playstation 2 is the best console ever made. I don't know why I just had to blurt that out (or type it out really quickly)...

But for the price, options, library, controller, etc., it is unbeatable.

Damn right. I've had mine since the week it launched. It's had heavy use and the same console is still going strong

. I've still got a few games for it that I've hardly started... It's going to be a year, at least, until it loses it's spot under the TV to a PS3... I love my PS2 - noisy bastard that it is.

Dark Helmet · Nov 30, 2006, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by OB1

Damn right. I've had mine since the week it launched. It's had heavy use and the same console is still going strong

. I've still got a few games for it that I've hardly started... It's going to be a year, at least, until it loses it's spot under the TV to a PS3... I love my PS2 - noisy bastard that it is.

I had the old one that i got about a year after launch and after a few good years I sold it and got the slim model.

The slim PS2 is a remarkable machine for its size and is dead silent. It was also dead cheap considering it has everything the PS2 has plus ethernet. Quite a steal also considering it has a DVD playback, 5.1 audio and 1080i support, and the biggest game library with PS1 and 2 games combined.... all for under $130. Gonna be sad giving it up for the PS3.

Dakar² · Nov 30, 2006, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

is dead silent.

Not when its loading. Not by a long shot.

Dark Helmet · Nov 30, 2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Not when its loading. Not by a long shot.

The slim one? Even so it really only makes access noise when booting a game or loading a large level after that it is church mouse quite.

Dakar² · Nov 30, 2006, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The slim one? Even so it really only makes access noise when booting a game or loading a large level after that it is church mouse quite.

Hey, that's what I said!

ort888 · Nov 30, 2006, 12:54 PM

Digital World Tokyo

Holy crap! Ken Katarugi demoted. Major management shift at Sony.

Eug Wanker · Nov 30, 2006, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

Digital World Tokyo

Holy crap! Ken Katarugi demoted. Major management shift at Sony.

Yeah, undoubtedly people aren't happy with the launch, but... Chairman and Group CEO is a demotion?

---

P.S. It looks like MS is adding suppliers for the HD DVD drive:

Lite-On to make add-on HD DVD player for Xbox 360, paper says

"Lite-On IT next year will start making add-on an HD-DVD player for Microsoft's Xbox 360 game console, which is currently supplied by Toshiba, according to the Chinese-language Economic Daily News (EDN)."

itai195 · Nov 30, 2006, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Dreamcast was better.

Gotta say, for the year or so that the Dreamcast had before PS2 came out, it was downright incredible IMO. One of my favorite consoles.

starman · Nov 30, 2006, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by itai195

Gotta say, for the year or so that the Dreamcast had before PS2 came out, it was downright incredible IMO. One of my favorite consoles.

I still have one

.

I had Linux working on it once, but the Apache server kept crashing because whoever ported it didn't use the VMU as a storage device and Apache would crash

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 01:54 PM

My earlier post about how much I love the PS2 got me thinking about it more last night. I got online and started looking the library, which is easily the biggest reason it was a such a phenomenal success. I'm just going to take a trip down memory lane and remind everybody about some of the titles that came out for it. (Using IGN's Editor's Choice as a reference)

GTA III
GTA: Vice City
GTA: San Andreas
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
SSX (series)
God of War
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec
Shadow of the Colossus
Tony Hawk (3-Project 8)
Devil May Cry
Jak and Daxter (series)
Ratchet and Clank (series)
Guitar Hero (two of the most enjoyable games ever made)
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
Final Fantasy X and XII
Resident Evil 4
Virtua Fighter 4
NBA Street (series)
Winning Eleven (series - the best "football" games on the planet)
Burnout 3: Takedown
Suikoden III
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance
ICO
Tekken 5
Amplitude
NFL2K (series - it's a shame they lost their NFL license)
Madden (series - on every platform, but arguably best-played on the PS2 because of the controller)
WWE Smackdown vs. RAW (series)
MVP Baseball (another license-stripped series that the fans want back)
Midnight Club (series)
Ace Combat (series)
SOCOM (series)
Katamari Damacy
ATV Offroad Fury (series)
Hot Shots Golf (series - simple fun...love this series)

And to think that I'm leaving out a LOT. This is why people are still going to buy the PS3 in droves, despite the price (including myself one day); they have a history with the Playstation name. They have confidence in the brand. As a matter of fact, going over this list makes me sad that I don't still have my PS2. I didn't play some of the games, such as God of War and the last 2 GTA's, but I recognize their value and importance.

This makes me somewhat bitter than the PS2 era has to end.

Dark Helmet · Nov 30, 2006, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by itai195

Gotta say, for the year or so that the Dreamcast had before PS2 came out, it was downright incredible IMO. One of my favorite consoles.

That thing was louder than an Xbox 360 though.

The controller was also totally weird.

Dakar² · Nov 30, 2006, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

GTA III
GTA: Vice City
GTA: San Andreas

I broke out San Andreas for the hell of it last night and I can tell you exactly what improvement is most important for the next-gen GTA.

AI.

Eug · Nov 30, 2006, 02:11 PM

MS buying up strategic ad space:

(Click to enlarge)

ort888 · Nov 30, 2006, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

My earlier post about how much I love the PS2 got me thinking about it more last night. I got online and started looking the library, which is easily the biggest reason it was a such a phenomenal success. I'm just going to take a trip down memory lane and remind everybody about some of the titles that came out for it. (Using IGN's Editor's Choice as a reference)

GTA III
GTA: Vice City
GTA: San Andreas
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
SSX (series)
God of War
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec
Shadow of the Colossus
Tony Hawk (3-Project 8)
Devil May Cry
Jak and Daxter (series)
Ratchet and Clank (series)
Guitar Hero (two of the most enjoyable games ever made)
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
Final Fantasy X and XII
Resident Evil 4
Virtua Fighter 4
NBA Street (series)
Winning Eleven (series - the best "football" games on the planet)
Burnout 3: Takedown
Suikoden III
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance
ICO
Tekken 5
Amplitude
NFL2K (series - it's a shame they lost their NFL license)
Madden (series - on every platform, but arguably best-played on the PS2 because of the controller)
WWE Smackdown vs. RAW (series)
MVP Baseball (another license-stripped series that the fans want back)
Midnight Club (series)
Ace Combat (series)
SOCOM (series)
Katamari Damacy
ATV Offroad Fury (series)
Hot Shots Golf (series - simple fun...love this series)

And to think that I'm leaving out a LOT. This is why people are still going to buy the PS3 in droves, despite the price (including myself one day); they have a history with the Playstation name. They have confidence in the brand. As a matter of fact, going over this list makes me sad that I don't still have my PS2. I didn't play some of the games, such as God of War and the last 2 GTA's, but I recognize their value and importance.

This makes me somewhat bitter than the PS2 era has to end.

The PS2 had one of the best game libraries ever (if not the best)... but that said, almost all of those you listed are third party games. a good chunk of them are also multi-platform.

These guys put out games for whatever system will make them the most money. It was the massive PS2 instal base that led to so many games.

If the PS3 takes a bit to catch on (because it costs $500) then you will see a lot more support for the 360 and Wii.

NYK Ace · Nov 30, 2006, 03:08 PM

honestly the only thing i would be interested in for ps3 would be metal gear solid 4, other then that im leaning strong into buying an xbox 360 AND a wii (xbox for my graphics fix and wii for the intuitive gameplay) but metal gear 2 did get me to buy a ps2 over its competitors and ive been more then happy with that decision.

but then i read these reports that the ps3 wont work with 1080i only sets (which i have) and theres no way id pay $600 unless i could get it in high def on MY high def tv

starman · Nov 30, 2006, 03:09 PM

Works fine on mine.

Dakar² · Nov 30, 2006, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Works fine on mine.

Don't regret putting it on the set?
Looks okay when you play?
Having fun on your Samsung?
The PS3 and the TV agree?

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Don't regret putting it on the set?
Looks okay when you play?
Having fun on your Samsung?
The PS3 and the TV agree?

What the crap is with the Kukoc sig? I laughed out loud for that one.

Dakar² · Nov 30, 2006, 04:05 PM

They had some kind goNick reunion thread and so I gave thought to who my sports hero would be.

I didn't feel like making a real nick, but I made the sig, so I thought I'd use it.

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

The PS2 had one of the best game libraries ever (if not the best)... but that said, almost all of those you listed are third party games. a good chunk of them are also multi-platform.

These guys put out games for whatever system will make them the most money. It was the massive PS2 instal base that led to so many games.

If the PS3 takes a bit to catch on (because it costs $500) then you will see a lot more support for the 360 and Wii.

True, many of theme were cross-platform...

BUT most of them played better on the PS2. Sports games in particular were better using the PS2 controller. The XBox's black and white buttons were crap to play with, and the Gamecube had the hard-to-reach Z-button, which was also horrible. Games like SSX, Tony Hawk, and Madden were all much easier to use on the PS2. The only genre that I could think of that might be better to play on the XBox is racing games, which were certainly better using the triggers.

I only counted 12 on that list that were cross-platform, by the way. And it was indeed the third-party support that Sony picked up, but they undoubtedly have a lot of support from those same companies with the PS3 simply because of their track record.

Dakar² · Nov 30, 2006, 04:20 PM

By the way I hope it wasn't the sig that made you laugh out loud.

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

By the way I hope it wasn't the sig that made you laugh out loud.

Of course it was. Toni is/was crap.

Maybe it's because I remember this particular interview from one of the Bulls' highlight videos from their dynasty days.

Dakar² · Nov 30, 2006, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Of course it was. Toni is/was crap.

Suck my back.

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Suck my back.

I'd be willing to bet the above picture make you steamy inside.

Dakar² · Nov 30, 2006, 05:00 PM

Maybe if it was Toni Kukoc.

itai195 · Nov 30, 2006, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

BUT most of them played better on the PS2. Sports games in particular were better using the PS2 controller. The XBox's black and white buttons were crap to play with, and the Gamecube had the hard-to-reach Z-button, which was also horrible.

On the other hand, a lot of them looked better on the Xbox.

Personally I also liked the revamped Xbox controller a lot more than the Dual Shock for almost any game. After being a huge fan of the PS1, admittedly the PS2 didn't do much for me. Not many exclusive games I cared about -- off the top of my head, just Ico, God of War, Okami, and FFXII.

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Maybe if it was Toni Kukoc.

Dakar² · Nov 30, 2006, 05:42 PM

I hate you.

OB1 · Nov 30, 2006, 05:51 PM

Things have kind of wandered off a little here on page 46... Surely this thread isn't coming to an end yet? 100 pages+, easy...

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by itai195

On the other hand, a lot of them looked better on the Xbox.

Personally I also liked the revamped Xbox controller a lot more than the Dual Shock for almost any game. After being a huge fan of the PS1, admittedly the PS2 didn't do much for me. Not many exclusive games I cared about -- off the top of my head, just Ico, God of War, Okami, and FFXII.

The graphics were better, but not enough to warrant changing your mind as to which system you'd get. The S-Type controller was an improvement, but the B/W buttons were still not laid out in a conducive manner for most games.

What Microsoft did much better than Sony in the last generation was online play.

Dakar² · Nov 30, 2006, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by OB1

Things have kind of wandered off a little here on page 46... Surely this thread isn't coming to an end yet? 100 pages+, easy...

Nintendo is screwing everything up! Sony sucks!

There. We're still alive.

icruise · Nov 30, 2006, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Works fine on mine.

Your TV is a 1080i-only set? Because the PS3 is supposed to downconvert to 480p on sets that do not support either 720p or 1080P (i.e. early HDTVs).

I will agree that the PS2 has been the greatest modern system. In many ways the Xbox was superior technically, but the PS2's library was pretty much unbeatable. If you could only have one last-gen system, the PS2 was the one to choose. And the new slim PS2 is a marvel. I remember getting one of the original PS2s in Japan shortly after the launch and thinking how huge it was (of course, this was before the Xbox's arrival). Now you can fit the whole system in something that makes the Gamecube look gigantic.

Anyway, it's the software that will make the PS3 a hit, despite the price. It's true that some former exclusive franchises are going to be appearing on the Xbox 360, but there should be plenty of stuff that will only be on the PS3 (and the reverse will also be true, of course).

starman · Nov 30, 2006, 07:06 PM

Yup. 1080i only. It's a few years old.

icruise · Nov 30, 2006, 07:44 PM

So what resolution are the 720p games running in? By the way, what did you think of Resistance?

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 08:36 PM

This is about to get really embarrassing...

I'm selling my Wii. And yes...I'm the guy who started the I believe I have a BIG problem thread. I'm selling my second system of the next generation console wars.

I've had fun with Wii Sports, but it wasn't very deep. The more I play Madden on the Wii, the less I like it. Zelda, as spectacular as it is, isn't going to hold me over until the next big game.

I voiced my concern about sports games on the Wii a few days ago, and now I'm really starting to get nervous. Nintendo's never been a sports gamer's paradise, but this Madden has me really worried.

SWG and Starman have been voicing their criticisms of the Wii for what seems like several decades now, and some of their criticisms are debatable. For one, I've personally never had any problems with the controller. There is a big of lag on Zelda:TP, but I haven't found it to be problematic. I have two big concerns at this point...

1. The Controls

I think the controller is excellent and shows a ton of potential. The problem is that I'm scared of it becoming gimmicky. The DS is great, but many of the games (Mario Basketball, for instance) have resorted to using the touchpad just for the sake of using it, rather than being smart with it. I don't want the same thing to happen with the controls, and thus far it doesn't look like it will.

However, I've heard that EA Sports is experimenting with making a foot strap for the controller to use in FIFA 08. No, no, NO!!! I don't want to strap a controller to my foot. I don't want to "kick" the ball. To gesture is one thing; to lift your foot in the air and kick around is another. Not to mention that within a few months my right leg would be much more toned than my left.

The controller, I believe, will help deliver Nintendo's promise of bringing casual gaming to the masses, but if it completely screws up my sports games (which are, again, a huge part of why I play games at all), then I'm going to be a very unhappy camper.

2. The Graphics

SWG has picked on the graphics time and time again. I've even jumped on the "graphics don't matter" bandwagon. A little over a week into my Wii experiment, I've discovered that the graphics are beginning to matter to me. I didn't experience the 360's HD potential at my home due to the fact that I don't yet have an HDTV, but it was still enough to spoil me. Now, after playing the best game out for the Wii thus far (and according to GameRankings, the third-highest rated game ever on average), I'm starting to wonder how I'm going to feel in a year or two from now when the PS3 and 360 owners out there are starting to get a glimpse of their console's graphical capabilities.

I do love the Wii. I really do. But I can't herald it as the future winner of this generation. Nintendo has even stated that they're not really competing with Microsoft or Sony; they want to target the casual gamers out there. Having less time than I used to, I thought that meant me. I'm beginning to wonder if I wasn't mistaken. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty much figuring out that I want something different than the Wii. Not better, but different.

So now my Wii is being auctioned off on eBay, along with my copies of Madden and Zelda:TP. I'm going to be biting the bullet and taking an overall loss, it appears...but I'm going to save up my money, get an HDTV, and then make my (hopefully final) decision between the PS3 and 360.

Chuckit · Nov 30, 2006, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I'm selling my Wii.

I hate you.

icruise · Nov 30, 2006, 09:07 PM

So Jawbone, did you end up selling your 360 to get the Wii? You can't say I didn't warn you...

goMac · Nov 30, 2006, 09:16 PM

Zelda's a gamecube game, so it's not showing the Wii's graphics.

I think next year the games that are more fully baked for the Wii will start to show off what kind of graphics we can really expect from the Wii.

starman · Nov 30, 2006, 09:17 PM

You basically said what I've been worried about with the Wii. I saw this coming, people becoming less and less enamored with the Wii.

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I hate you.

Dane loves you. Just ask Dakar.

starman · Nov 30, 2006, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Zelda's a gamecube game, so it's not showing the Wii's graphics.

I think next year the games that are more fully baked for the Wii will start to show off what kind of graphics we can really expect from the Wii.

All it does is 480p and has a crappy video card. Sorry, it's not happening. Seriously, what DO you expect?

goMac · Nov 30, 2006, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by starman

All it does is 480p and has a crappy video card. Sorry, it's not happening. Seriously, what DO you expect?

What's not happening?

I said Zelda is a Gamecube game. Wii games will look better.

So what exactly is not happening?

starman · Nov 30, 2006, 09:21 PM

Do you REALLY think you're going to get anything good on that system?

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

So Jawbone, did you end up selling your 360 to get the Wii? You can't say I didn't warn you...

Yup.

And yup.

Originally Posted by goMac

Zelda's a gamecube game, so it's not showing the Wii's graphics.

I think next year the games that are more fully baked for the Wii will start to show off what kind of graphics we can really expect from the Wii.

True, but we're not going to see anything amazing. But then again, the graphics aren't the biggest thing that I'm getting worried about.

Originally Posted by starman

You basically said what I've been worried about with the Wii. I saw this coming, people becoming less and less enamored with the Wii.

It didn't really happen to me until Tuesday night. The Madden thing was from the beginning, but everything else started worrying me while I was playing Zelda. After I turned it off, I thought about it for about a while and I started getting concerned. By today I was pretty upset at myself.

It's NOT terrible, as some might think. But it's not geared towards someone like me, and I probably should've recognized that, considering that I haven't really been a Nintendo guy since the N64. I did like the DS Lite, but I never played it half as much as I thought I would.

goMac · Nov 30, 2006, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Do you REALLY think you're going to get anything good on that system?

What is your problem?

I bought it. I'm happy with it. There are more games coming that look good.

Get a life Starman.

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Do you REALLY think you're going to get anything good on that system?

I for one knew that the graphics wouldn't be that great. I just didn't think it mattered. And to some people it absolutely won't, and they'll be very happy with it.

In goMac's defense, Zelda:TP is a Gamecube port, and probably could've looked quite a bit better than a true Wii game, but most of the launch titles aren't discernibly better than the Cube either. I think they'll get better with time, but not as good as some people might hope.

itai195 · Nov 30, 2006, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by starman

You basically said what I've been worried about with the Wii. I saw this coming, people becoming less and less enamored with the Wii.

That the graphics and sports games aren't 360/PS3 caliber? Who didn't see that one coming?

I still think the Wii has great potential, it's just not going to win any beauty contests. And it probably won't be that great for traditional sports games like Madden, which have always, even in the 16 bit era, been worse on Nintendo systems. Nothing has changed there.

I'm sure you've been very 'worried' about these things. Must be keeping you up at night

icruise · Nov 30, 2006, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by starman

You basically said what I've been worried about with the Wii. I saw this coming, people becoming less and less enamored with the Wii.

Eh, actually I'm starting to like it more now that I've played some more games and explored the Virtual Console more. When I first got it, I was a bit bummed about the graphics, but I really do think that a lot of that is just due to the launch games and not a fault of the system in general (although it's so far from the Xbox 360/PS3 that's it's not even funny). The controller really is innovative and I think we'll see its potential being tapped more as time goes by. The Wii makes a good second or third system for a serious gamer or a primary system for a casual gamer who doesn't want to spend a lot of money.

itai195 · Nov 30, 2006, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

That thing was louder than an Xbox 360 though.

I like my consoles loud

The controller was also totally weird.

How so? It did have a misplaced cord, but otherwise it was not much different from the Nights controller. Actually maybe the Nights controller had that stupid cord too, don't recall.

Mrjinglesusa · Nov 30, 2006, 09:53 PM

UPDATE:

60 GB PS3s now down to low to mid $800s on EBay. I'm laughing my ass off at the idiots who thought they were going to make tons of money after waiting 30+ hours in line for those things.

On topic, I've had my 360 since February and love it. GoW is freakin' insane graphics wise.