[cryer]

I keep hearing debates on this issue and it just keeps going, with neither side "winning." I've done some searching on the web and in these forums on this topic and it still eludes me. Maybe I should talk to AppleCare but I have a feeling they'll just give me whatever answer is safest. But really, I'd just like to know which method is truly the better method.

Does Erase & Install truly give you better performance since it's a fresh install with nothing on the disk? Or does it not matter since Archive & Install is the same thing but has the added advantage of leaving your apps and documents intact?

I don't particularly care about the bells & whistles that Tiger comes with, I'm just mostly interested in gaining better performance, speed, and overall stability & snappiness. Which method will give me that best? Or is there truly no difference?

Here's some threads on this forum that has confused the heck out of me:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...+install+tiger
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=251694
etc etc etc the list goes on and on

And this guy is in the same boat (or was in the same boat) as I am:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...=install+tiger

Also, is this guy right about doing an Erase & Install as a better way to make sure things run smoothly?
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/ma.../29/tiger.html


So, once and for all, is an Erase & Install better than an Archive & Install?
I'm going bonkers here, please.. what is the definitive answer

[Big Mac]

I do not think it's necessary to erase and install just for the heck of it, but a number of other people seem to do it religiously. Incidentally, I have erased the drives of my two most recent Macs after purchasing them, but I did so for specific reasons and not just because of a (seemingly unsubstantiated) belief that Macs may perform better with an erase of the factory installation.

[jasong]

Do you really think you are ever going to get a definitive answer on anything on a web forum?

But as for my uninformed position, I think all the so-called routine maintenance tips out there are a waste of time. Calculate out how much faster your Mac will have to be to make up for the 45+ minutes you will spend backing it up and then reinstalling the OS. This goes for defragging your HD as well. Don't forget to add in the time spent aggregating all the conflicting answers you will get in this thread.

[wataru]

Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill...

You don't need to do either as maintenance. In fact you don't need to do any maintenance at all.

If you're installing a new system, archive & install is much easier. Don't bother with erase & install unless you're having problems.

[cryer]

Yes, but do you get any better performance out of erase & install, that is the question.

I think i'd rather ask and see whats out there than not ask at all. And as you can see from the threads and websites i provided, the mountain has already been made.

I was hoping there'd be better and more concrete explanations, hopefully smarter and more knowledgeable people may reply.

[CharlesS]

Doing an erase and install will do three things:

1. If your hard disk directories had any problems, then an erase and install will solve them, obviously, because you just erased the directory. So if you have a catalog error so bad that even DiskWarrior can't fix it, an erase and install is probably a good idea. If DiskWarrior can fix it, then you obviously don't need to do something as extreme as erasing the disk.

2. Doing an erase and install will result in a completely defragmented disk, because the freshly copied files onto a virgin filesystem will not need to be separated into fragments to fit the available space. You could accomplish the same results with a defrag utility. In theory, this could result in a very small performance increase if the drive had previously been seriously, extremely fragmented. However, I have to say that in actual practice I've never noticed a speed increase from a defrag in all my years of using Macs.

3. If you're a packrat, then backing up just the important stuff and erasing would get rid of all the crap you let accumulate, but can't bring yourself to drag into the Trash. This is about the only real benefit of Erase and Install, as I see it. For all other purposes, you'll get the same result from Archive and Install, but you keep your settings and data.

[cryer]

Thanks, Charles. One thing I want to ask is the defrag stuff. I've heard that Mac OS defrags by itself. Like when you install security updates and the update "optimizes your hd," etc. Is this true? If so, wouldn't that make your point about defragging moot?

Also, I guess what you're saying is that, in #3, getting rid of all the crap thats accumulated will increase performance or no?

[CatOne]

Originally Posted by cryer

Thanks, Charles. One thing I want to ask is the defrag stuff. I've heard that Mac OS defrags by itself. Like when you install security updates and the update "optimizes your hd," etc. Is this true? If so, wouldn't that make your point about defragging moot?

Also, I guess what you're saying is that, in #3, getting rid of all the crap thats accumulated will increase performance or no?

It may. OS X does defragment, but not 100% completely. So there's a chance you may see a slight improvement in performance. It also blows away any cruft you may have hanging around in your startup items or such.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by cryer

Thanks, Charles. One thing I want to ask is the defrag stuff. I've heard that Mac OS defrags by itself. Like when you install security updates and the update "optimizes your hd," etc. Is this true? If so, wouldn't that make your point about defragging moot?

OS X 10.3 and higher have a feature that gets turned on as part of the Mac OS Journaled file system. What it does is, it automatically defragments the X most fragmented files (can't remember the exact number off the top of my head) on the disk, and also moves the X most often used files to the "hot zone", the portion of the disk where you'll get the best performance. It doesn't completely defragment the disk, but it's close enough for me. Even before Apple added this feature, I was never able to notice a difference in performance after defragging.

If you routinely work with very large files (video work, etc.), then maybe a defrag would create more noticeable results than with the kind of stuff most people do. You could do it with a defrag app, though, and not have to restore everything from your backup.

Also, I guess what you're saying is that, in #3, getting rid of all the crap thats accumulated will increase performance or no?

Not so much increase performance as free up space on the hard disk and just plain make your file system neater.

[tooki]

For crying out loud, I spent a lot of time explaining this to you over private message. All for nought, it seems.

There is no ONE definitive answer. I stand by my original recommendation: if you have to ask, just do an Archive and Install and don't give it another moment's thought. You are suffering from a severe case of "a little information is worse than none at all", and should just stop thinking about it and do what I suggest.

tooki

[cryer]

well, i did say i was going to publicly post about this in private message too, and you said to go ahead so i dont see why its such a big deal

anyway, you're right in that i'm thinking about this too much but it's not like im just sitting in my room thinking about it nonstop. it may appear that way because this is all static text on a forum but i do have a life

its something that crossed my mind as a concern since receiving tiger recently and there's so much confusion on these forums about it.

[tooki]

There's no confusion, just differing opinion. Because it's mostly opinion (or weighing of tradeoffs) and not fact, there is no one answer. You'll never find The One Answer that you seem to think exists.

I said it was fine to ask, but it would have been nice for you to a) acknowledge what research you'd been given, and b) to ask for new information to clarify, rather than asking it as a new question.

The problem is (and I really don't mean this in an insulting way) that you don't yet know enough about Macs to evaluate the factors and make the decision about which way to go. This alone tells me that you should just do an Archive and Install, like most people have suggested. You've spent more time researching this than you could ever have recovered by whatever infinitesimally small speed boost you might gain by doing an Erase and Install, and the research has only confused you because you don't know what to make of what you discovered. Please, please just do an Archive and Install and don't look back!

tooki

[CharlesS]

Tooki, I'm on your side on this issue, but that was a little rude. We should treat our newer members a little more politely, don't you think?

[tooki]

After spending a total of something like 90 minutes trying to explain the details via numerous PMs, I would have hoped that the OP would post to ask merely the specifics that remained unclear.

I guess my exasperation poked through there.

tooki

[cryer]

tooki, i said i was going to post about this and get other people to weigh in. obviously i would post about things that were unclear to me, and so i did. just because it's clear to you doesnt mean it's clear to me. i do appreciate your help, and i've stated that before in private message. i'm sorry i'm so stupid, will you forgive me?

from what i'm understanding here, an erase & install will give you better performance even if it is negligible but this is all unsubstantiated and mostly just done in faith? it seems odd to me that this would be the case. i understand that some are saying that it makes your hard drive neater and all that.. but it seems that none are actually factually stating that this indeed does make performance better.

[tooki]

My point was that you just asked from the beginning again.

Anyhow, I don't think anybody's done any methodical testing of one way versus the other, which is why there is no definitive answer. And even if there were, there's the big question of weighing whether it's worth the time it takes to do a full backup of all your files, and then restoring them back, plus reinstalling all your apps from scratch, agaist what tiny speed reduction might occur.

tooki