[abe]

People Are Becoming Digitally Educated Rather Than Living Analogically

Kids (I'd guess) are becoming educated about life and culture and sayings and things via the internet where they get only part of the story. They can't grasp the thing (whatever it is) in the correct context, they read things that someone else got wrong and so they mention it to others who hear it from them the first time and because few people care to or are equipped to correct the malaprop or what have you, the whole language and culture is being changed, much too quickly and much too haphazardly and much too much by young, immature, inexperienced tekkies.

Ever heard of an employee calling out sick? (The expression is calling IN sick.)

Or someone who doesn't know sh!t and Shinola? (The expression is that someone doesn't know sh!t FROM Shinola.)

Those are just two examples of expressions by people who I believe have become digitally educated rather than living life analogically.

And it reminds me of how you sometimes get digital signal loss in video tapes.

[BRussell]

Doesn't use of the internet actually reduce information transmission problems?

[abe]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Doesn't use of the internet actually reduce information transmission problems?

It's got it's pluses and minuses.

Digital fidelity is supposed to be better than analog fidelity. But there is something lost by not experiencing he real thing in the real way.

How many times do you correct the grammar or vocabulary or malaprops of posts you see online?

How many would you correct in person?

[analogika]

Nothing you describe is in any way new to the digital age.

This is probably an opportune time to remind you of the Great Sixteenth Chapel Debacle at MacNN, or of the fact that ANALOG tape degradation and hiss can be sufficiently detrimental to sound clarity to lead to a bunch of interesting lyric malapropisms.

Desmond Dekker's reggae classic "My Ears Are Alight" comes to mind.

The fact that it's far easier to communicate with a FAR greater number of people just means that you're much more likely to come across idiots in greater numbers, as well.

I have no illusions that the number of pseudo-Christian bigots, ignorant fascists, cannibals, 2girls1cup fetish followers, and such was not much smaller BEFORE the internet. I just never ran across them before.

[abe]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Nothing you describe is in any way new to the digital age.

This is probably an opportune time to remind you of the Great Sixteenth Chapel Debacle at MacNN, or of the fact that ANALOG tape degradation and hiss can be sufficiently detrimental to sound clarity to lead to a bunch of interesting lyric malapropisms.

Desmond Dekker's reggae classic "My Ears Are Alight" comes to mind.

Thank you for your considerate response.

I am tired and under the influence and probably should step away from the keyboard because I am not communicating my thoughts well.

Thank you again.

Your reply was so nice it kind of hurts me to admit that I wasn't referring to the subject matter you were. Sorry.

But when I return I won't mind of the thread becomes a devoted to discussing the matter in your reply.

So be it.

[analogika]

People use malapropisms on the 'net because that's the way they HEARD them - analogue. Real Life.

Notice how malapropisms are always PHONETICALLY similar.

People hear one thing and puzzle it together in their own heads. That's the way it's always been. Written communication - and the internet is primarily text-based - merely exposes this to a much greater degree.

If somebody says to you "They're one in the same", you're just going to assume that he said "They're one 'n' the same", because spoken language is much more forgiving.

As for things like "calling out sick" - children going uncorrected is and always has been the responsibility of parents and educators, and how a child deals with insecurities in phrasing (ask, look it up, or use a different phrase) is IMO behavior learned way BEFORE they're old enough to go type-chatting on the internet.

[sir_hc]

Here's one I constantly see around here: "For all intensive purposes..."

It should be "For all intents and purposes..."

There are many others but for some reason this particular one annoys me to no end. I wonder what they actually teach in school nowadays.

[analogika]

I think they've stopped correcting kids these days.

It Hertz they're self of steam.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika 

The fact that it's far easier to communicate with a FAR greater number of people just means that you're much more likely to come across idiots in greater numbers, as well.

I have no illusions that the number of pseudo-Christian bigots, ignorant fascists, cannibals, 2girls1cup fetish followers, and such was not much smaller BEFORE the internet. I just never ran across them before.

I've have many a bath-time philosophy session thinking about this very same thing. And decided that this was down to one of two conclusions:

1) As you state. The weirdos were there before in generally the same quantity, but just weren't as exposed.

2) The weirdos were there but in smaller numbers. The exposure of such lifestyles to the general population via the Internet has led a number of easily impressed morons to mimimc such activities. As we know, humans are mostly extremely gullible entities and will sometimes engage in unhealthy behaviour simply to be part of a flock and feel that they "belong".

My jury's still out on that one.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by sir_hc 

Here's one I constantly see around here: "For all intensive purposes..."

It should be "For all intents and purposes..."

I would of said that if you hadn't.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

1) As you state. The weirdos were there before in generally the same quantity, but just weren't as exposed.

2) The weirdos were there but in smaller numbers. The exposure of such lifestyles to the general population via the Internet has led a number of easily impressed morons to mimimc such activities. As we know, humans are mostly extremely gullible entities and will sometimes engage in unhealthy behaviour simply to be part of a flock and feel that they "belong".

My jury's still out on that one.

My view is a combination of both, really:

The internet has made it far easier to find kindred spirit, and it's that much more likely that somebody might discover that his weird urge towards self-mutilation is shared by others, or that the weird feeling of otherness he had all his life is in fact perfectly in tune with the furry community he happened to discover on some discussion board the other night.

However, that doesn't mean he was less weird to begin with.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika 

My view is a combination of both, really:

The internet has made it far easier to find kindred spirit, and it's that much more likely that somebody might discover that his weird urge towards self-mutilation is shared by others, or that the weird feeling of otherness he had all his life is in fact perfectly in tune with the furry community he happened to discover on some discussion board the other night.

However, that doesn't mean he was less weird to begin with.

So he was a latent furry to begin with, but seeing it on the 'net made him think "there are other people like me, it's OK" and thus prompted his furry inclinations to develop into full-blown furriness?

Yep, that makes sense.

[BadKosh]

Garbage in -Gospel out!

[swiz]

The internet should only be used for things that you cant do any other way. Using it for anything more than that is a slap in the face of actually living.

[Chuckit]

If you think I'm going to drive an hour to buy a CD rather than just order it off Amazon, you straight trippin', dawg. I mean, sure, I could go to some far off record store to find an import CD, but I think that would be a slap in the face of actually living.

[swiz]

I agree with you on that point Chuckit. I freaking hate going to stores.

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by analogika 

It Hertz they're self of steam.

lawlz!

[- - e r i k - -]

News flash: Language evolves.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by analogika 

It Hertz they're self of steam.

Muahahaha

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

News flash: Language evolves.

I don't think grammatical errors due to carelessness counts as "luggage convolution".

-t

[besson3c]

It is in part due to what Abe pointed out in his original post that I think that it may not be wise to commit to putting laptops in the hands of every student in America without fully understanding how to educate people effectively with technology.

My wife's Mom is a high school English teacher and she sees a lot of short-hand type mistakes that may have been taught or reinforced in online environments like a forum or MySpace or the like. How do we teach proper grammar and English when nobody cares? How many times have grammar mistakes been pointed out to people here, for instance, and their response is "who cares? It's only a forum/the internet" A good grasp on basic grammar skills should be second nature to everybody, and people who slip up on things like "to/too", etc. are *not* comfortable with these differences - plain and simple. For somebody for whom this is second nature to, it would literally be harder to get it wrong than it would be to get it right.

[Gankdawg]

Originally Posted by analogika 

I think they've stopped correcting kids these days.

It Hertz they're self of steam.

I, too, lawled.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How many times have grammar mistakes been pointed out to people here, for instance, and their response is "who cares? It's only a forum/the internet" A good grasp on basic grammar skills should be second nature to everybody, and people who slip up on things like "to/too", etc. are *not* comfortable with these differences - plain and simple.

It boils down to carelessness and laziness.

-t

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I don't think grammatical errors due to carelessness counts as "luggage convolution".

As much as I groan about mistakes myself, yes those "mutations" are exactly what happens when language changes and develops.

An example from Norwegian is the word "Hadet" which means "bye". It started out as "ha det bra" or "fare thee well" (not directly). It ditched the well and contracted the first two rendering it structually meaningless. Farethee! Yet this is not a recent invention. What is recent though (to the ironic chagrin of many) is the even lazier spelling "Hade", ditching the t.

Knowing the history behind it dawned on me that the latter makes just as much (or as little) sense as the "correct" spelling does.

I am sure there are countless examples of this in the English language as well, this was just the first one that came to mind.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

For somebody for whom this is second nature to

First rule of posting about other people's bad grammar: Make sure you proof-read your own post two or three times!

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

First rule of posting about other people's bad grammar: Make sure you proof-read your own post two or three times!

That's a rule I don't subscribe to. Again, we are talking *basic* grammar stuff here. Some foibles and typos are excusable, I don't care about that, but it does often send a shiver up my spine to see adults make (consistent) mistakes with grammar rules I remember being drilled on in middle school!

[Uriel]

A misused word that drives me crazy is "coarse". For some reason I see more and more people say things such as "Of coarse I will!". This error, to me is beyond my understanding. The word "coarse" is so rarely used in English and the word "course" is used SO much you think people would pick the latter through repetition alone.

I'm no spelling genius, but I do my best. If I don't know a word or the proper spelling I will do my best to educate myself and practice it. I wish more people would realize how powerful the written word has the potential to be.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

You can't escape bad grammar. Believe me I've tried. One way or the other it exposes itself.

[Arty50]

Originally Posted by abe 

People Are Becoming Digitally Educated Rather Than Living Analogically

Kids (I'd guess) are becoming educated about life and culture and sayings and things via the internet where they get only part of the story. They can't grasp the thing (whatever it is) in the correct context, they read things that someone else got wrong and so they mention it to others who hear it from them the first time and because few people care to or are equipped to correct the malaprop or what have you, the whole language and culture is being changed, much too quickly and much too haphazardly and much too much by young, immature, inexperienced tekkies.

Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here.

[olePigeon]

If you've ever read YouTube comments, you'd think the only people who use the internet are contestants on Jay Leno's Jaywalk.

[mduell]

Pullet surprise!

[swiz]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

If you've ever read YouTube comments, you'd think the only people who use the internet are contestants on Jay Leno's Jaywalk.

So true, YouTube commentors(is that a word) are the armpit of humanity.

[Chuckit]

My armpit is far more pleasant than the average YouTube comment.

[swiz]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

My armpit is far more pleasant than the average YouTube comment.

Touche' again

[OwlBoy]

You can argue specifics, but Abe's post does have at least a small bit of truth in it.

-Owl

[finboy]

Originally Posted by abe 

People Are Becoming Digitally Educated Rather Than Living Analogically

Kids (I'd guess) are becoming educated about life and culture and sayings and things via the internet where they get only part of the story.

I think it's the end result of not having to know anything to get by. It may be digitally-related, where kids can learn a few rote facts and that substitutes for achievement. But in general, I think it's a failure of the education system to educate rather than just babysit.

And it goes all the way through high school. Many of the kids I see in college have no idea how to analyze something and actually solve problems, how to defend a position logically, how to think for themselves in general. (We see enough of that here, too.) Some are worse than others to be sure, but it scares me to think that these folks are going to be actually out in the working world soon. I do all that I can for them, but some are going to have a really really tough time. God help them if they get off their meds.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Doesn't use of the internet actually reduce information transmission problems?

It can. But it can also be used to help spread FUD and disinformation. Especially for those LOOKING for such a thing. If someone WANTS to believe something is true, any text or clues they find will suddenly be legit just because of the fact it goes along with their rational at the time.

How many times have grammar mistakes been pointed out to people here, for instance, and their response is "who cares? It's only a forum/the internet"

Well most of the time people say that because what really matter is getting the point across in the discussion. We aren't being graded on our words. And most people come to such discussions as a "get away" from such strict guidelines such as work, or other anal retentive relations.

I also think interrupting a discussion just to point out someone's grammar mistakes is just as big of a fax pas as the actual grammar mistake. Even bigger actually. Such pointing out would work better if it was done in private message if said person is so concerned about grammar problems.

But from what I have seen over the past decade or more is, most grammar corrections are really a hidden passive aggressive attack on someone as to belittle them. Not saying this is the case all the time. But in this forum, it is the norm. And like I said, that's even worse than the mistake itself.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

It boils down to carelessness and laziness.

Well some people have little time to post, let a lone post and have their posts proofed. Most people just care if their post gets across. As most people only care if they can understand the person. While I agree with you to a point, I don't think anyone calling anyone out for it in the middle of a thread is going to change their habits.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

First rule of posting about other people's bad grammar: Make sure you proof-read your own post two or three times!

Indeed. Karma is a bitch. Another reason why I attempt not to correct people for grammar mistakes.

That and I don't want to come off as an anal-retentive pretentious cork sniffer.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I also think interrupting a discussion just to point out someone's grammar mistakes is just as big of a fax pas as the actual grammar mistake. Even bigger actually. Such pointing out would work better if it was done in private message if said person is so concerned about grammar problems.

But calling someone out for calling someone out? Why that's completely acceptable behavior, and definitely belongs within the thread and not a private message.
Yes, I called someone out for calling someone out for calling someone out. And yes, I believe it belongs right here.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

But calling someone out for calling someone out? Why that's completely acceptable behavior, and definitely belongs within the thread and not a private message.

Actually even though I am guilty of doing this as well, it is not acceptable.

Not that it's relevant to this thread as I was on topic with the thread's discussion..

And yes, I believe it belongs right here.

Then why did you even say anything? If you are "just playing the game" say as much and I will move on.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Then why did you even say anything? If you are "just playing the game" say as much and I will move on.

I'm confused. I believe what I said belongs where it is. But I don't believe that you believe it does.

[Kevin]

Well you are wrong.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Well you are wrong.

Couldn't that have been said in a PM?

[Kevin]

Boy you sure showed me Laminar. I hope you feel good about yourself for doing so.

Not that we all didn't see that coming from your first reply to me.

[BlueSky]

Yeah Laminar, we all saw that coming. Now don't you feel silly? Shame.

[Kevin]

Shame shame know your name!

You have to finish it.