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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Decidedly Unimpressed (a rant)

Decidedly Unimpressed (a rant)
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megasad
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Oct 19, 2003, 10:39 AM
 
Not one but two iBooks have died, in the space of as many weeks.

My own 600MHz model, from October 2001, and my girlfriend's 800MHz December 2002 machine, they have both turned into very expensive paper weights. And both through no fault of our own (ie - we haven't been dropping them on their heads, using them in the bath etc.).

The battery in my own machine died completely a few months ago. Fair enough; batteries die. Then the hard drive started making strange noises... And now it has also died, completely unreadable by the system in any form whatsoever, not even showing up in Disk Utility. And, in what would seem to be a connected instance, the optical drive no longer works either. So, no using CDs or DVDs for me either. Wonderful. The only way I'm able to use my iBook (a portable computer) is to keep it on my desk, plugged into the power adaptor, with my external firewire hard drive plugged into it, and the wall too. Without the two power outlets and the hard drive that is larger and heavier than the iBook itself, it is nought more than a paperweight.

So, that's my machine. I can use it, but only as a desktop, and a desktop which cannot read any kind of optical media at that. But all is not lost! Surely I can get stuff off of CDs etc. using my girlfriend's iBook? Ho ho...

Yesterday, after a long day at work, my girlfriend opens her iBook to get some college work done. Her iBook is her only machine and she depends upon it mightily for all said college work. The screen flickers. It flickers some more. Everything freezes, nothing responds, but the screen artifacts continue to flicker. Okay, it's gone flakey, maybe a restart will help? Restart. Completely black screen. The bong, but then nothing. Or, at best, it gets to the grey apple, it flickers some more, then the spokes stop spinning and it has died again. Booting from my external drive produces the same result. The logic board, or something on it, is completely ****ed. The machine is unusable.

But, maybe I can at least get her work off it, using that Firewire Target Disk mode thing. Except... my own iBook cannot boot from its own hard drive, so I can't do that; it has to run off of the external drive, so doesn't have a firewire port to use.

****.

So, from what I've seen, Apple design good stuff but their actual production process leaves something to be desired. The iBooks at least, are damn shoddy machines. My girlfriend has already had to send her iBook in because the screen would flicker when pushed back, a huge blue bar appear on the right. Then the left speaker doesn't work (since we got it back from Apple) and now the thing itself is as good as garbage. My own iBook is a replacement model as the one I actually bought had a latch that broke after three weeks.

We are not happy.

She'll be calling Apple on Monday, making them fix it since it's still under the first year warranty. But, if I can't get her work off it tonight, using her brother's TiBook, then that's all this academic year's work lost. Which is very bad.

And my own machine is obviously FUBAR. To fix it would cost nearly as much as a new machine. So, that's what I'm planning on doing; buying a new machine. And, until recently, I had no doubt I would buy another Mac. Now, for the first time in two and a half years, I am seriously considering a Windows box. And not for an OS reason, obviously. But because, of all things, I think the machine would be of a higher build quality; I can buy and use components that don't fail after one or two years.

Bah. I was expecting my iBook to last me at least ten years, seriously. I was going to buy a new machine for speed etc. after two or three years, sure, but I expected the iBook to actually last about ten. So, come 2011, I could boot it up, amuse myself at what I used to use. It lasted just over two years. Just. My girlfriend thought the same about hers. It never even occurred to us that they'd just stop working. For no ****ing reason. Just, one day, stop.

Pieces of shite.

I need a new machine and haven't a clue what to do.
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rjenkinson
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Oct 19, 2003, 10:44 AM
 


sounds like you got lemons.

-r.
     
Robertk2012
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Oct 19, 2003, 01:31 PM
 
Well this is what happens when you drive down costs. Apple has to cut corners (use some of the same stuff pc makers use) to compete on price. If you think apple is bad just think about the fact that apple has the highest satisfaction, lasts the longest, and has the best customer service. If your feeling lucky try the pc but I bet your best bet will be to stay with apple. Especially when you start talking about the OS. Microsoft just annoced 5 more "critical" flaws, god know what that takes the total up to for this year alone.
     
Scooterboy
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Oct 19, 2003, 04:12 PM
 
10 years use out of a laptop that is non-upgradeable is unrealistic. If you want that kind of longevity I'd suggest a tower of some kind, PowerMac or PC. I don't expect to keep my iBook as my primary computer another 6 months as I want to upgrade anyway, but 5 years is more like the maximum given ever increasing software requirements.
Your computers shouldn't have failed. Your girlfriend's iBook is under warranty so no worries there (she did backup her documents at least?).
Sorry to hear about your 600. I hope mine keeps chugging away. I have almost always treated it with utmost care which irritates my friends, but these machines are truly a lot of high tech crammed into a small space and to me at least, any laptop is a very expensive machine. I have found that moving quickly an iBook or shaking it before it fully is sleeping or powered down can make the HD un-mountable. I fixed my dead battery by buying a new one.
Your CD ROM is not functioning? Does it spin at all, or is it not mounting the CD's? Is the lens or mechanism dirty? I regularly clean my iBook and it amazes me how much dirt, dust, fibres, hair, grime, etc, can get inside, under the keys, under the keyboard, inside the battery compartment, inside the CD tray....
If your HD is truly dead, you could replace it with a 60 or 80 GB one, which will cost far less than a new laptop computer.
If the CD-Rom is truly dead that can be replaced as well...or go with a nice FW DVD-R drive that you can use with your next computer.
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natan
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Oct 19, 2003, 11:56 PM
 
Yeah, I'm unimpressed with my July 2002 iBook/700. I've had many macs before this one, and this is the only one that I've had to have serviced by apple. Tomorrow, it's being mailed in for it's <b>sixth</b> AppleCare repair.

Next mac I get is definitely going to be a PowerBook, in a few years - I'm unfortunately not willing to buy another cheap machine from Apple again.
     
Link
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Oct 20, 2003, 12:22 AM
 
good lord *points at the posts above* some people think apple can do no wrong huh.

http://www.computerlemonlaw.com/helpme.html

^^ might... MIGHT... want to look into that. heheh

No.. seriously, expecting your laptop to last 10 years.. with a 3 year working life isn't unrealistic by any means.

Dun worry I have a friend that's gone through 10 ibooks, another 3, another 2, etc. Things are pieces of **** painted white.

That's just another reason I'm so damned paranoid of buying an apple laptop.
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OldManMac
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Oct 20, 2003, 12:53 AM
 
Just curious; if they're so bad, how does Apple manage to sell hundreds of thousands of them?
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biscuit
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Oct 20, 2003, 08:31 AM
 
Here's a thought. Rip the HD out of your girlfriend's iBook and use it in yours. Or, seeing as your girlfriend's one will be repaired under warranty, buy yourself a new HD (not the cost of a laptop by any means) and have some fun taking your machine to pieces and putting it back together again. If you screw it up, well it was knackered anyway, right?

I have to agree on the 10 years total/3 years use thing. I've known Macs last for ages. But then those were the Macs of old...

biscuit
     
joltguy
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Oct 20, 2003, 01:44 PM
 
Originally posted by Link:

Dun worry I have a friend that's gone through 10 ibooks, another 3, another 2, etc. Things are pieces of **** painted white.
I think that your assessment is far too harsh. Just because your "friend" has gone through so many doesn't mean that the whole line is garbage. To go through that many, I'd have to assume your friend is either quite careless or very very unlucky. My iBook has been the model of stability since the day I bought it. So was the one I had before this. No problems. Zero. I'm not the only one either. For every person who reports a problem with their system, there are probably 100 more who have perfect systems and say nothing because they are content. The only reason there may seem to be more problems with Apple laptops is because we, the Mac community, put everything they do under a microscope. Other vendors are rarely subject to such scrutiny because no such community exists around their products. So don't go condemning a whole product line simply because a small percentage of it's entire user base has a poor experience.

To get back on topic, I'm really sorry to hear about the problems reported by the original poster... I'd be so irate or depressed that I may not be able to think straight either. Just a thought: the Wintel side of the fence is not free of production defects or lacklustre quality either. Even if you manage to find perfect hardware, dealing with the horrible OS and corresponding software would be enough to make you regret your platform switch. Something to think about before you spend your money. And for the record, I don't think your thought of having a usable iBook in 10 years was at all unreasonable. I'm hoping for the very same thing for mine. Once again, sorry about your bad experience.
     
megasad  (op)
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Oct 20, 2003, 02:04 PM
 
Robertk2012, the operating system is ultimately the deciding factor, and so for the forseeable future I will be using Macs. Just wish I could, as my girlfrind suggested, build my own. That way I could use components I know are of high quality and not have to be scared that the thing will crap out on me.
My iBook was lovely for the first year, beyond reproach. The second year was a little dodgy, with the battery dying, the screen dimming etc., but only things you'd expect. And then the third year never happened.
If I ever do get another PC I will, as I said, build it myself, not buy some pre-made piece of crap. But, hopefully, that won't be for a while yet.

Scooterboy, I didn't mean I expected to use my iBook as my main machine for ten years, in fact I said I was expecting to buy a new machine for speed etc. after two or three years. I just thought that my iBook would still be capable of booting after ten years. Imagine it; it's 2011, Jobs has just unveiled Mac OS Eleven (11.1 I guess, if it's exactly ten years from when I bought it) and I'm using my G6 to read about this on some forum. So, in a fit of nostalgia, I get my iBook out of the cupboard, where it's been sitting in a box for the last seven years. I switch it on and am shocked by how primitive OS X 10.3 is in comparison to the current state of play, switch it off in disgust and sell it on eBay for a fiver
I managed to backup all of my girlfriend's stuff using her brother's ancient lime iMac of all things. So she hasn't lost any work, thank Bob.
I too have been very good to my iBook, hardly ever dropping it, handling it carefully, cleaning it regularly. Which is what made it dying so bloody annoying. If I'd knocked it about, treated it like trash, I'd understand it konking out.
Anyway, from Apple System Profiler on other machines, it seems that the hard drive and DVD drive are on the same bus (is that the right word?). So, the same thing that's meaning I can't use my hard drive seems to mean I can't use my DVD drive. The worst thing of all? Pressing Eject (F12) instantly causes a kernal panic. What fun.

natan, I don't think I will ever buy another Apple laptop. Not necessarily because I am wary of them going wrong, but because I don't actually need a portable computer. Being able to use the thing on the sofa was nice, but a machine that actually lasts is more to my liking, and laptops, by their nature, are abused far more than desktop machines. So it's desktops all the way for me from now on.
But what is this you say of "cheap machines"? Crap. I was planning on buying an eMac. Partly because of the price, but also because of the CRT display (I like CRT) and the fact that it's cheap (I guess the price does matter...). But the eMac is Apple's cheapest machine. Does anyone know if it has a similar mortality rate to the iBook? Or are things more stable in the desktop world?

Link, your friend juggles with his iBooks? Or they were all bad from the start?

KarlG, the iBook is a very nicely designed machine, which looks good on paper and is good to use. The problem lies in the manufacturing process, which from what I can tell, Apple has been cutting costs on more and more over recent years. Fair enough, to make the Macs cheaper to buy, but when it makes the machines lifespans considerably shorter, is it really that much of a saving?

biscuit, when I do get my new machine, I will try and fix my iBook, playing with it without fear as, like you say, it's already knackered. But I can't do that whilst it is my only machine, and right now my girlfriend's too. Could someone tell me of a good place to buy iBook size hard drives, preferably based in the UK so as the P&P is not too extreme?

And, finally, joltguy, as I said at the start of this post, the operating system is what keeps me using Macs and is what will keep me using Macs for the forseeable future. I just need to luck out and but an eMac that lasts ten years, with not a single problem whatsoever.

Thanks all.
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Scooterboy
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Oct 20, 2003, 05:45 PM
 
I have my eMac in a public use setting, and besides wiping off the screen and cleaning the food crumbs and coffee stains from the keyboard it's holding up well. It is the most solid feeling computer I've seen, and it shoud be for weighing 50 lbs (or 4 or so stone). Perhaps an eMac would suit you, or better a G5 if you have the $�� .

I tested out the new PowerBooks at a store and was not overly impressed with the performance. They didn't feel all that much faster than my iBook, and they paled in comparison with the 1.8 GHz G5 I played with. Aqua is screaming fast on the G5 but the newest PowerBooks showed some lag.

I'd be loathe to buy a new Apple 'book at the moment as well, at least until we see a PowerBook G5.

It would also be nice if warranties could somehow be extended beyond 3 years.
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damosan
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Oct 21, 2003, 02:16 PM
 
Originally posted by Scooterboy:
10 years use out of a laptop that is non-upgradeable is unrealistic.
Uhm...10 years of use from any desktop class machine is unrealistic. That doesn't mean there are still folks with working 8088 laptops (I have two) but I don't use them anymore.
     
Xeo
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Oct 22, 2003, 12:41 AM
 
I just sold my iBook 500. I only had to send it away once in the two years I had it, and that was about a month ago. I got a replacement battery for it almost 2 months ago covered under the warranty. I'm getting a 900 in a few days (almost no pocket money put into it ). I'm very happy with my iBook and expect the 900 to live up to the same standards.

Stories like these are exactly the reason why I pay the extra for Apple Care. The 500 I sold still has 10 months of warranty on it. The 900 I'm buying will be good until 2006. I like knowing that these flaws found later can be taken care of.

Here's hoping for the best.
     
The Placid Casual
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Oct 22, 2003, 09:00 AM
 
I have an iBook 466Se which I have had no problems with, and also run a iBook 500 for over a year, again with no problems...

The 2 issues just sound like extraordinary bad luck.

However, it does bring into focus the whole Applecare issue...

I will not own a laptop without some kind of warranty. The risks are just too great.

If the warranty is on it's way out, and I am not extending Applecare or something, I sell.

Pays to protect your investment.

Peace,

Marc
     
The Ancient One
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Oct 22, 2003, 09:27 AM
 
Originally posted by damosan:
Uhm...10 years of use from any desktop class machine is unrealistic. That doesn't mean there are still folks with working 8088 laptops (I have two) but I don't use them anymore.
10 years out of a Mac desktop is what I expect. I bought my Mac II in 1988 and retired it in 2001, still running. My wife inherits my current machine when I replace it and right now she's running the heck out of a stock 8500/120. She has been starting to show more interest in my dual 800 Quicksilver, though, so it'll probably be G5 time next year. I can live with that.
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DrBoar
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Oct 22, 2003, 09:37 AM
 
10 years life span so what!
So the LC III, Quadra or powerbook with a 68030 cpu is still running. But for what beside email and Word 5.1a?

How long is the minumum life span? I would say at least 5 years old G3 and high end 604 are still usefull but 10 years? October 1993 was almost a year before the introduction of the Powerbook 150 with its snappy 33 MHz 030 cpu and fuzzy passive matrix screen. Would you care to have it around in 2003

Not even the then newly released extremly powerful Quadra 840AV impress that much now. I think there are palmpilots with more torque
     
Spliff
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Oct 22, 2003, 09:45 AM
 
Originally posted by damosan:
Uhm...10 years of use from any desktop class machine is unrealistic. That doesn't mean there are still folks with working 8088 laptops (I have two) but I don't use them anymore.
My Mac Classic II still boots and works perfectly (Mac OS 7.1). I bought it in 1991.

I've got Word 5.1 on it. I can check my email with Eudora Lite. I can even browse the web with Internet Explorer 2.1.

It's built like a brick sh*t-house.

I may not use a computer that's 10 years old, but given their price, I expect Apple products to last that long.
     
willed
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Oct 22, 2003, 10:55 AM
 
Originally posted by megasad:
I too have been very good to my iBook, hardly ever dropping it.
So what, you've only dropped it five or six times? I wouldn't expect my iBook to boot up for much longer if I'd ever dropped it, which I haven't. Sorry to hear about your problems though. My 2001 iBook 500 is still going strong, never had a problem [touches wood].
     
theolein
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Oct 22, 2003, 11:33 AM
 
Originally posted by megasad:
...
I too have been very good to my iBook, hardly ever dropping it, handling it carefully, cleaning it regularly. ...
Ouch. I think you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. I don't know what you mean by "hardly ever" i.e. if you just mean dropping it from 4 inches onto a soft carpet, 6 inches onto a wooden floor or 3 feet onto a concrete platform. The plastic case will shield it for minor bumps to a certain extent, but I think it doesn't matter what machine you have got, PC or Mac, Laptop or Desktop, if you drop it onto a hard surface from a height of a few feet, and it falls at an angle which amplifies the inertia, you can rip off quite a few connectors and make the hard drives head scratch the surface etc. Just one is really all it needs.

However, if it just happened after a period of working correctly then it definitely sounds as if there has been a problem with a ide controller.

As for your girlfriend's machine, it sounds as if there was a bad connection to the display or something.

Still, I'm surprised and dissapointed that this happened to you.
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DekuDekuplex
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Oct 22, 2003, 05:16 PM
 
Originally posted by megasad:
[comments deleted]
I too have been very good to my iBook, hardly ever dropping it, handling it carefully, cleaning it regularly.
[comments deleted]
Good grief! Talk about an oxymoron! On second thought, make that an "oxy-moron!"

I'm astonished that it still even works!

--DekuDekuplex
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nebben123
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Oct 22, 2003, 09:28 PM
 
i had the glitchy graphics problem on my ibook 700 too. the only way i could salvage the data from the drive is to put it in firewire disk mode (hold down T when booting) and mount it on another mac. for some reason, the graphics glitch wasn't nearly as bad when booting in disk mode. maybe that'll work for you as well.

apple will also transfer your drive data when you send it in for repair for $50. might be worth it.

good luck.
     
damosan
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Oct 23, 2003, 06:37 AM
 
Originally posted by The Ancient One:
My wife inherits my current machine when I replace it and right now she's running the heck out of a stock 8500/120.
My wife and I have the same type of agreement. I'm waiting for her Dell to crap out one or two more times and then I'm getting a new machine and she'll get this iBook.
     
damosan
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Oct 23, 2003, 06:38 AM
 
Originally posted by Spliff:

I may not use a computer that's 10 years old, but given their price, I expect Apple products to last that long.
Now that I can agree with.

My old Atari 800 still boots... It's nothing more than a diversion at this point.
     
nagromme
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Oct 23, 2003, 01:40 PM
 
Compare ALL features--not just MHz--and see if Apple laptops REALLY cost more once you add the Apple extras to the Wintel competition. Then look into the failure rate of Dell laptops--40% returned according to The Register(!) Look at Consumer Reports' ranking of hardware reliability AND customer service, and see Apple topping both. THEN decide whether to let frustration (which I 100% understand!) drive you into an even worse situation that also loses you the best OS on the planet.

(And does Apple REALLY choose cheap brands of HDs and optical drives? I never thought so. Yet they still can fail. My Lombard's IBM TravelStar did--not Apple's fault, they didn't make it, but of course they fixed it as was their responsibility. The long-term success stories of iBooks in schools gives me some confidence too--that's a nightmare situation for durability!)
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Big Mac
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Oct 23, 2003, 10:03 PM
 
There have been a multitude of posts about iBook QC shortly after the debut of the first iceBooks. Although it's true that satisfied customers don't talk about how happy they are nearly as often as dissatisfied customers talk about their disappointment, it seems like there have been a lot of disappointed iceBook owners. I love my iBook 466 - it is a wonderful machine. And I've never even heard of a really serious flaw being encountered by any owner of my class of Mac. Therefore, it simply makes sense to me that there are some specific problems with the iceBook line. Maybe, hopefully, the G4 revision brought with it some improvements to Apple's manufacturing; time shall tell. The upshot is even though I love my iBook, I'd be concerned about purchasing a new one any time soon.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
megasad  (op)
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Oct 25, 2003, 12:04 PM
 
Just to let you all know of the next development in my horribly jinxed technological life:

The 60GB LaCie FireWire hard drive, upon which I had backed up all of my stuff, ever, has also given up the ghost.

I plugged it in, there were some sparks, the smell of burning plastic, and now it will not switch on anymore.

All the work I've done on my iBook over the last two years is lost and I'm back to the four CDs I burned in February 2002, the work I did on my Pentium II 300MHz, the 486 DX2 66MHz before that, between 1995 and 2001.

Oh, happy days.

I'm seriously considering just stopping with computers all together. I've lost everything that I worked on. I can start again. Or I can just stop.

For the moment, I think I shall stop.
( Last edited by megasad; Oct 25, 2003 at 12:14 PM. )
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Chuckit
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Oct 25, 2003, 12:50 PM
 
Originally posted by Spliff:
My Mac Classic II still boots and works perfectly (Mac OS 7.1). I bought it in 1991.
As far as I know, my Macintosh 512K still works perfectly aside from the internal floppy drive. And we bought that...back in 1984?
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mark2
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Oct 25, 2003, 06:03 PM
 
Sorry to hear about your recent experiences. That said, I don't think that's the norm. My iBook 500 has never had a problem. It's almost 2 years old.

It sounds like you chose not to buy Apple Care. Personally I don't see how anyone would even consider owning a laptop without AC. Everyone knows laptops are delicate and expensive to repair. But it's a choice we each make. You made that choice, not Apple, and now you're mad at them.

If you think you're going to find better quality in a wintel box, I think you're in for a rude awakening. wintels are junk. And don't even think about the virii!

With a bit of care, an Apple laptop will last for years. But anything can break down. That's why people buy insurance.
     
   
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