Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

stwf · Mar 12, 2008, 12:27 PM

Last night I rushed home to download the new Airport Utility to see if it restored the ability to run Time Machine to an AirDisk.

So I tried it and it failed, the disk was not recognized. But I read on MacFixit that this now was supported. Whats the deal? Has anyone gotten this to work? know alot of must have tried, seeing as how much discussion there was over this on the forums.

Anyway, help! Does the drive need to be reformatted or something? Just a note saying that an unhacked AirDisk could work would be very helpful!

Cold Warrior · Mar 12, 2008, 03:27 PM

AirPort Update 2008-001 brings this functionality, not the Airport Utility update.

Check out this story from MacFixIt:
Apple brings Time Machine for AirPort disks back - MacFixIt

Cold Warrior · Mar 13, 2008, 09:27 PM

That story has been corrected. MFI now says no airdisk.

Correction: AirPort update does not bring back Time Machine for AirDisks - MacFixIt

Cold Warrior · Mar 19, 2008, 08:48 PM

For all - this has been updated again to reflect that this functionality is in the latest updates.

AirPort Firmware 7.3.1 brings Time Machine over AirDisk back -- really - MacFixIt

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 20, 2008, 02:54 AM

working now on my laptop but my desktop still can't backup to any volume. The Console tells me that it can't find the hardware address of the machine although System profiler and network find it fine.

I also can't find any solutions since October.

macmad · Mar 20, 2008, 06:06 AM

Adfter the updates, my AirDisk doesn't show up in TM either, although its there in the finder.

jogi · Mar 20, 2008, 07:11 AM

After both updates (utility and firmware) I was able to backup correctly to the Airdisk connected on the Aiport Extreme Gigabit version. Working smoothly now :-)

scaught · Mar 20, 2008, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

For all - this has been updated again to reflect that this functionality is in the latest updates.

AirPort Firmware 7.3.1 brings Time Machine over AirDisk back -- really - MacFixIt

How much difference is there between airport extreme + external HD VS time capsule? I figure I could save about a hundy going with airport extreme + external HD for a 1TB setup...

tridentinecanon · Mar 20, 2008, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by scaught

How much difference is there between airport extreme + external HD VS time capsule? I figure I could save about a hundy going with airport extreme + external HD for a 1TB setup...

It has been noted that the TC is very competitively priced vs. the setup you propose, but maybe not any longer.

I went with the time capsule for these reasons:

- Less wires (I HATE wires)
- Designed specifically for one purpose... Time Machine backups
- I already own an AE, and getting the TC provided yet another BS in our house for an improved signal
- I've had some trouble mounting various drive connected to the AE
- And I've also had trouble with various drives unmounting sporadically
- Also, and I'm no engineer, but I just felt like it was more simple and solid to have the hard drive directly connected to the wireless whatever instead of going through a USB cord

solofx7 · Mar 20, 2008, 01:41 PM

Has anyone had any issues recently with the new update and getting the external hard drives to work and stay mounted?

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 20, 2008, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by macmad

Adfter the updates, my AirDisk doesn't show up in TM either, although its there in the finder.

WEll got mine FINALY working.

You have to make sure the drive is formated in HFS+ Journaled or no dice.

bradbissell · Mar 20, 2008, 09:57 PM

Is it just me, or is the write speed of TM to the airdisk incredibly slow? My write speed jumps between 1KBps and 1MBps, with an average of about 250KBps. At that rate it would take days to backup my Macbook (connected with 802.11n).

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 20, 2008, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by bradbissell

Is it just me, or is the write speed of TM to the airdisk incredibly slow? My write speed jumps between 1KBps and 1MBps, with an average of about 250KBps. At that rate it would take days to backup my Macbook (connected with 802.11n).

I had the same problem at first, just make sure you have all the latest updates and the drive is formatted HFS + Journaled.

JKT · Mar 21, 2008, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by bradbissell

Is it just me, or is the write speed of TM to the airdisk incredibly slow? My write speed jumps between 1KBps and 1MBps, with an average of about 250KBps. At that rate it would take days to backup my Macbook (connected with 802.11n).

Even for Time Capsule Apple recommends doing the first backup over Ethernet as Wi-Fi speeds are too low. As subsequent backups are incremental (and therefore a lot smaller), Wi-Fi speeds are OK.

bradbissell · Mar 21, 2008, 03:56 PM

My problem was that even over ethernet the speed was terribly slow.

Does anyone else have the problem of the backup freezing at 2GB?

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 21, 2008, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by bradbissell

My problem was that even over ethernet the speed was terribly slow.

Does anyone else have the problem of the backup freezing at 2GB?

Yup. Again only with the ROM version from way back when it first came out. With the current software.. no.

turtle777 · Mar 21, 2008, 04:41 PM

I'm still amazed how many people don't RTFM and try to do the initial backup via WLAN.

I'd think it's common sense to do the first run via ethernet. Ah well...

-t

ghporter · Mar 21, 2008, 07:12 PM

...But 802.11N is teh bomb and faster than light and the best thing ever and... People get caught up in how much better a new product is than the old one it replaces, and they forget the obvious stuff. Time Machine has gigabit Ethernet and 802.11N, but so few people consider the wired connection's speed anymore that they don't grasp how really, REALLY fast gigabit can be, while at the same time N speeds are supposed to be faster than anything so why not do everything wireless?

turtle777 · Mar 21, 2008, 07:48 PM

Well, I'm not exactly sure what your point is, Glenn.

However, from all the test results I have seen, 802.11N is more a marketing gimmick than anything else. The actual real life speed (throughput) increase over 802.11G is minimal, by far not what the specs would make you think.

-t

ghporter · Mar 21, 2008, 09:21 PM

N is indeed faster than G, especially when used in the 5GHz spectrum. I wouldn't call typical results of at least three times the speed, along with more robust resistance to interference and longer range "minimal." But... There are more people who listen to and are influenced by marketing hype than those who do decent research and think out what they will get from a new product. The "gee whiz!" factor is there for all of us, but some people seem to believe that N wireless is faster than ANY wired connection, which most certainly isn't true.

My point above was that not everyone is experienced, educated, exposed to the kind of discourse we have here, and frankly terribly interested in all the kinds of detail what we discuss with relish, so they don't think "hey, maybe, since this first backup will be humongus, I should do it through a wired connection" because marketers have told them that N is so incredibly fast...

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 22, 2008, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Well, I'm not exactly sure what your point is, Glenn.

However, from all the test results I have seen, 802.11N is more a marketing gimmick than anything else. The actual real life speed (throughput) increase over 802.11G is minimal, by far not what the specs would make you think.

-t

I did my own tests at it is at worst about 25% faster than G.

Simon · Mar 22, 2008, 05:12 AM

In my house using the same MBP and at the same distance:
• AirPort Express 802.11g (g only mode) maxes out at ~800 kBps
• AirPort Extreme 802.11n (2.4/5 GHz mixed mode) maxes out at ~5.5 MBps

IOW n gets me where g's theoretical limit should have been. For my use n is acceptable, g isn't.

turtle777 · Mar 22, 2008, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

I did my own tests at it is at worst about 25% faster than G.

So what's the best you got ?

-t

turtle777 · Mar 22, 2008, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

In my house using the same MBP and at the same distance:
• AirPort Express 802.11g (g only mode) maxes out at ~800 kBps
• AirPort Extreme 802.11n (2.4/5 GHz mixed mode) maxes out at ~5.5 MBps

IOW n gets me where g's theoretical limit should have been. For my use n is acceptable, g isn't.

Not too bad. What's the distance in your setup ?

-t

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 22, 2008, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

So what's the best you got ?

-t

Never did the exact math but my friend with N on his laptop and me with G on mine tried to copy the same file back and forth a few times at at the same distance the speed was at least 25% faster which is pretty good.

turtle777 · Mar 22, 2008, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Never did the exact math but my friend with N on his laptop and me with G on mine tried to copy the same file back and forth a few times at at the same distance the speed was at least 25% faster which is pretty good.

Well, I dunno if 25% is "pretty good", given that the spec promises 5x as fast.

For 25% more, it's not worth the upgrade, IMO.

-t

Simon · Mar 22, 2008, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Not too bad. What's the distance in your setup ?

About ten yards and two brick walls in between. But they're on the same floor. So it's really a very short distance and hardly any conducting obstacles in between. Pretty much ideal conditions.

5.5 Mbps is ok for home use. But the g speeds I get are just ridiculous.

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 22, 2008, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Well, I dunno if 25% is "pretty good", given that the spec promises 5x as fast.

For 25% more, it's not worth the upgrade, IMO.

-t

No you're right it is not and it is more marketing that anything else but the speed boost is there even if it isn't huge. I know that there are lots of video files my friends stream to their AppleTV and over g it can't handle it well but N is seemless. So for video the upgrade is worth it.

jogi · Mar 22, 2008, 05:05 PM

Wireless N over 5Ghz gives me aprox 7MB/Sec from the Air Disk in download mode and about 3-4 in upload mode...

Jaw3000 · Mar 22, 2008, 05:05 PM

I'm experiencing the same problems as the original poster:

As has been widely reported, the new Airport/Time Machine update released a few days ago supposidly finally enables Time Machine for AirDisks. Sure enough, my new AirDisk showed up in Time Machine, but after a successful 1st backup, I began experiencing a lot of problems. I'm using 10.5.2 and an Airport Extreme (gigabit) model.

I did a successfull backup, which created a sparse image on the AirDisk. However, it was full of problems. First, when performing a backup when the AirDisk is available but not mounted, Time Machine doesn't mount the disk and instead reports the error "No backup volume selected." I can start a backup after mounting both the AirDisk and the Sparseimage, but this defeats the automatic nature of Time Machine. Further, when attempting to open Time Machine to browse my backup, I get the error "The storage location for Time Machine backups can't be found." This occurs both without the airdisk mounted and periodically when mounted. After numerous tries, I can sometimes get Time Machine to perform a backup, but Time Machine doesn't automatically unmount the sparsedisk after its finished. It has to be unmounted manually. Furthermore, Time Machine turns itself off after every system restart, and requires manual intervention to re-enable Time Machine for automatic backups (at least until the next restart).

A few months ago, I had used the "defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1" hack and began to wonder whether these problems (and the fact that I can even select the AirDisk in Time Machine) could be attributed to it and not the new official support enabled by the update (I had never disabled the hack). So, just to see what would happen, I disabled the hack (which still seemed to be enabled). Afterwards, my AirDisk no longer appears as a drive in Time Machine.

Has anyone experienced anything similar to this? Does any ideas how to get Time Machine to recognize my AirDisk, since the unsupported hack is no longer supposed to be needed and to fix the problems I've been having? Help would be greatly appreciated!

By the way, can anyone successfully using Airport Extreme with Time Machine after the update check their defaults write "com.apple.systempreferences" file and see whether "TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes" appears, and if so, what its value is? Thanks!

Here's an update: After a restart, I manually turned Time Machine back on (as I mentioned above), and an automatic update began. This time, the AirDisk and sparse image was automatically mounted. However, Time Machine began to back up again the entire 30GBs that it already backed up yesterday during its initial backup. Not many files have changed since the last backup, so the backup should be pretty small. All of my excluded files are still listed, so I don't think Time Machine is trying to back up new files.

My whole experience with Time Machine has been nothing but trouble. First, I bought an external USB drive (now my AirTunes drive) to use with Time Machine directly via USB, and soon after the 10.5.2 update, my backup got corrupted (I believe by canceling a backup after it started) and each backup would end with errors. I tried to delete my backup from the disk, but the Finder reported it as taking two whole days to delete the 60+gb backup. This was ridiculous, so I obviously had to erase the partition and start over. Second, when Time Machine worked, it took forever. Not counting the initial backup (which took ridiculously long), Time Machine took 3-4 hours just to complete a regular hourly backup and the CPU usage on my PowerBook was tremendous. Finally, I get the idea to start over with an AirDisk after the recent Airport update, and now I have all of these problems. This is really the first piece of Apple software I've used that is really plagued with problems. Contrary to Apple's design principles, Time Machine just doesn't work, and this is really bad for a backup application!

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated!

scaught · Mar 24, 2008, 08:49 AM

I'm on the fence about whether or not I should go with Time Capsule or a AE basestation and external drive, but I keep hearing reports like the poster above where things are just not as they should be. Is anyone having GOOD results with either setup? Has anyone seen a real and measurable difference between the 2 setups I mention? I've tried to do some googling but haven't seen anything...

turtle777 · Mar 24, 2008, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by scaught

I'm on the fence about whether or not I should go with Time Capsule or a AE basestation and external drive, but I keep hearing reports like the poster above where things are just not as they should be. Is anyone having GOOD results with either setup? Has anyone seen a real and measurable difference between the 2 setups I mention? I've tried to do some googling but haven't seen anything...

How much would you spend on AE + ext. drive ?
Is that saving over TC really worth potential trouble ?

-t

jogi · Mar 24, 2008, 11:08 AM

My setup (Airport Extreme and external 320gb HDD) is working just fine... You need to have the airdisk mounted, but not the sparse image. Time Machine mounts the sparse image.

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 24, 2008, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by scaught

I'm on the fence about whether or not I should go with Time Capsule or a AE basestation and external drive, but I keep hearing reports like the poster above where things are just not as they should be. Is anyone having GOOD results with either setup? Has anyone seen a real and measurable difference between the 2 setups I mention? I've tried to do some googling but haven't seen anything...

With the new firmware and software updates I am having ZERO problems. They really ironed out all the bugs that have been there since October.

scaught · Mar 24, 2008, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

How much would you spend on AE + ext. drive ?
Is that saving over TC really worth potential trouble ?

-t

Savings on a 500GB TC aren't a lot, but on a TB model I figure I would save a hundred bucks. $179 for AE, and find a sale on a 1TB external. I've seen them for ~200.

Mind you, this could all change and I could just end up with the TC on a friggin whim and a $600 check. I'm backing up a 250GB imac. I don't know if I really need a TB for time machine purposes. Is there any "hard and fast" rules here?

turtle777 · Mar 24, 2008, 01:45 PM

To be honest, TM consumes quite a bit of space. The more, the better.

I read about people whose TM accumulated 3x their HD space within a couple of months.
TM 1.0 is NOT very smart about reallocating resources that get MOVED.

-t