[PJJames]

I haven't been following closey enough to know if there is any new reported reason why they haven't debuted the Macbook Pro's with C2D's in them. Thanks.

[ddma]

I don't think Apple would just replace the entire line of MBP to Core 2 Duo while it only provides around 7% performance improvement without any advantage on battery life. It is not a wise move to just follow other PC makers and lose all the existing Core Duo equipped MBP in stock. However, the next speed bump may use Core 2 Duo with higher processor speed.

Just my thought...

[PJJames]

I agree...I've thought for a while that they won't do it. They'll just simply leave them alone until Santa Rosa maybe? I'm not sure....

[ddma]

Hopefully the next update of MBP/MB will be seen in MWSF 07! But I think it all depends on when Intel can ship faster chips.

D.

[MovieCutter]

On Tuesday, DEFINITELY Tuesday, my source tells me it's an absolute guarantee.

[justinkim]

Core 2 currently clocks out at a max 2.66GHz v.s. the MBP's current max 2.16. That alone will hopefully provide enough incentive for Apple to rev the MBP before Santa Rosa.

Santa Rosa isn't scheduled to come out until Q1 of next year, so it wouldn't surprise me if we didn't see a Santa Rosa MBP before March-April-ish. That's an awfully long time to wait for a refresh of the current batch of machines.

[Elektrix]

Yeah, I don't buy that Apple wouldn't update them just because it wasn't a major performance increase.

If that was the case, why did Apple ever bother upgrading the original MBP from 1.83 and 2.0 GHz configs to 2.0 and 2.16 GHz configs? Or more appropriately, why did Apple bother putting Meroms in the iMac (arguably a computer where I don't recall anyone demanding to have Merom in there).

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced there is some other reason that Apple is holding off on putting Merom in the MBP, but I can't put my finger on it. I am leaning more towards those people who argue Apple is at least doing some minor case updates, etc. though (that would be the one area where Apple has a reason not to have something out yet; all the other PC manufacturers with Core 2 Duo notebooks literally just stuck them in existing product lines that otherwise didn't really change).

[ddma]

Originally Posted by Elektrix

Yeah, I don't buy that Apple wouldn't update them just because it wasn't a major performance increase.

If that was the case, why did Apple ever bother upgrading the original MBP from 1.83 and 2.0 GHz configs to 2.0 and 2.16 GHz configs? Or more appropriately, why did Apple bother putting Meroms in the iMac (arguably a computer where I don't recall anyone demanding to have Merom in there).

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced there is some other reason that Apple is holding off on putting Merom in the MBP, but I can't put my finger on it. I am leaning more towards those people who argue Apple is at least doing some minor case updates, etc. though (that would be the one area where Apple has a reason not to have something out yet; all the other PC manufacturers with Core 2 Duo notebooks literally just stuck them in existing product lines that otherwise didn't really change).

The Rev A MBP was a different story as it was the first MBP with Intel chip, Apple definitely wanted to have the best chips on it in order to compete with other PC makers. And the CPU in iMac is removable, the MBP's is not. It can explain why Apple can upgrade iMac more easily without losing too many stocks. You should know that if they upgrade the CPU in MBP, they will also lose the motherboard, GPU on it... That can explain why Apple does not upgrade MBP at the same time as iMac.

Just my thought...

[ddma]

One more thing, the original MBP 1.67/1.83 configuration was never released to consumer... You never know if they had had it built :-P

[mduell]

Originally Posted by justinkim

Core 2 currently clocks out at a max 2.66GHz v.s. the MBP's current max 2.16. That alone will hopefully provide enough incentive for Apple to rev the MBP before Santa Rosa.

Both Core Duo and Core 2 Duo for laptops top out at 2.33Ghz. C2D has twice the cache, as well as the other core improvements (1 cycle SSE, etc).

[ddma]

Originally Posted by mduell

Both Core Duo and Core 2 Duo for laptops top out at 2.33Ghz. C2D has twice the cache, as well as the other core improvements (1 cycle SSE, etc).

True, mobile version of Core 2 Duo is not as impressive as desktop version of Core 2 Duo.

[Twelvepoints]

There seems to be a ton of folks on the fence waiting for Core 2 Duo's

[MattJeff]

insted of worrying about a refresh i have told myself not getting my MBP untill santa rosa. it stops stress and i dont get disapointed when the refresh dosnt happen.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Twelvepoints

There seems to be a ton of folks on the fence waiting for Core 2 Duo's

Yep, it's kinda sad. I'm one of them.

[ggirton]

I am starting to think the best way to get a core2duo into play is the iMac, the 24 inch it has so many advantages over the MBP. Just consider...

1. 24 inch screen
2. 160G hard drive
3. Can take "a little" more memory (can't believe I have now said 1G was 'a little')
4. Immediate delivery!
5. Easier to wait until Santa Rosa
6. Did I mention 24 inch screen?

[Commodus]

I think it'll be in the next couple of weeks.

Whenever orders get delayed that way, Apple's clearing the channel. It doesn't give you a firm prediction - Apple could release new models in 4 weeks, or next week if they wanted to - but it does mean that you should hold off if you can afford to wait.

[Elektrix]

Originally Posted by ggirton

I am starting to think the best way to get a core2duo into play is the iMac, the 24 inch it has so many advantages over the MBP. Just consider...

1. 24 inch screen
2. 160G hard drive
3. Can take "a little" more memory (can't believe I have now said 1G was 'a little')
4. Immediate delivery!
5. Easier to wait until Santa Rosa
6. Did I mention 24 inch screen?

7. Will fit into your laptop bag*






* If your laptop bag is made out of a recycled muumuu

[dimmer]

Apple might do this. But without a good support chip set you get nothing and lose about 20% of your battery life. I doubt it'll happen.

[giggs11]

Engadget says production will start within the next few weeks... y'know, for people who keep up with those rumors.

Core 2 Duo MacBook Pros finally on the way? - Engadget

[brokenjago]

1. 24 inch screen
2. 160G hard drive
3. Can take "a little" more memory (can't believe I have now said 1G was 'a little')
4. Immediate delivery!
5. Easier to wait until Santa Rosa
6. Did I mention 24 inch screen?

The 24" iMac comes with a 250GB HD.

Even better, right?

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by ggirton

I am starting to think the best way to get a core2duo into play is the iMac, the 24 inch it has so many advantages over the MBP. Just consider...

1. 24 inch screen
2. 160G hard drive
3. Can take "a little" more memory (can't believe I have now said 1G was 'a little')
4. Immediate delivery!
5. Easier to wait until Santa Rosa
6. Did I mention 24 inch screen?

Personally I am looking for new boxes (laptop and desktop) that present maximum professional Aperture/Photoshop handling power over the 3-5 year future of new boxes. For folks who need maximum pro performance, iMacs are bad choices: inadequate RAM for a pro desktop and too large to be portable. The limited RAM of MBPs also is a serious limitation but unfortunately so far has been a necessary compromise to achieve portability.

-Allen Wicks

[iomatic]

Likewise, I'm now on the fence with trading up to a new C2D Mac Book Pro, or a Mac Pro... gawd that naming convention sucks....

One other possibility someone else has mentioned around 2007 MWSF would be a hat trick:

1) Apple releases an updated laptop line with a slight enclosure change to deal with the DL SuperDrive (on the 15"), a new 12",
2) with Core 2 Duo before anyone else (long shot)
3) Adobe CS3 is near manufacturing

That would be hot. I would be buying.

[houstonmacbro]

Originally Posted by ddma

I don't think Apple would just replace the entire line of MBP to Core 2 Duo while it only provides around 7% performance improvement without any advantage on battery life. It is not a wise move to just follow other PC makers and lose all the existing Core Duo equipped MBP in stock. However, the next speed bump may use Core 2 Duo with higher processor speed.

Just my thought...

only 7% performance gain, but it is 64 bit which would fare well for leopard coming in 2007.

[houstonmacbro]

Originally Posted by osiris

Yep, it's kinda sad. I'm one of them.

yeah, i think i am gonna wait too ... i mean, i am not DYING to have a new laptop ... i only WANT one. i think santa rosa would be a compelling reason to ditch my powerbook for good.

[iomatic]

What do you all think i could get for my DL 1.67GHz PB with 2GB RAM/100GB 7200RPM drive?

Maybe i should keep it and get a Mac Pro?

[SierraDragon]

I would keep my G4 PB 1.67 until Santa Rosa - except for the fact that Aperture has become my most important app and demands additional power right now.

-Allen Wicks

[iomatic]

That's what I'm thinking.

Though lately, with even a few power-hungry apps (Photoshop, Aperture), Safari and Mail and other "admin" apps, everything starts to bog down intolerably for me. I want googlemaps, for instance, to blaze, and any noticeable improvement in Aperture would be a godsend.

[tavin64]

Apple has no choice but to update to core 2 duo because intel has stopped shipping core duos. And the performance boost is more like 30% on core 2 duo and core duo. The 4mb of l2 cache helps a lot in that aspect. Plus they are now 64bit which doesnt really matter much on the apple side until leopard but it is very important on the windows side because of the vista release and the fact that the 32bit version of vista is going to be very limited when it comes to functionality.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by tavin64

Apple has no choice but to update to core 2 duo because intel has stopped shipping core duos. And the performance boost is more like 30% on core 2 duo and core duo. The 4mb of l2 cache helps a lot in that aspect. Plus they are now 64bit which doesnt really matter much on the apple side until leopard but it is very important on the windows side because of the vista release and the fact that the 32bit version of vista is going to be very limited when it comes to functionality.

Haha, Intel has certainly not stopped shipping Core Duos. Heck, they're still shipping Pentium 3s.
The boost is 30% in some apps, but in most it averages closer to 10%. A newer release of the Intel compiliers with tweaks for the Core microarchitecture (more execution units, etc) may help.
64-bit doesn't matter at all IMO. 32-bit Vista will do everything the 64-bit version will.

[hldan]

I want a new MacBook Professional myself and it's definitely time for Apple to release the updated models. I'm dedicated to Macs only but the current lineup is definitely not worth the price being charged. Aside from the OS's several Windows machines with close to the same major specs have so much more in them right now. 200GB HD's and 1-2GB ram standard and 256MB video ram standard (non shared graphics cards) and DL optical drives, the majority have bluetooth and wireless built-in. I have found most of these on Sony's and Lenovo's which are usually on par with Apple's design offerings. Even the new iMacs are killin' the MacBook Pros in features.
I'm just a bit disappointed at this point.

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

isn't the Core 2 Duo a cooler processor? I went to the Apple Store nearby and felt the MBP's and they are HOT! Wouldn't that be a good enough reason to upgrade?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO

isn't the Core 2 Duo a cooler processor? I went to the Apple Store nearby and felt the MBP's and they are HOT! Wouldn't that be a good enough reason to upgrade?

C2D is not cooler.

It has roughly the same TDP as the CD. The reason people have this idea that it's supposed to be cooler is that it has the same TDP but at increased performance. So at the same performance it should in theory use less power. In practice, benchmarks showed that it performs slightly better than CD and uses roughly the same amount of power.

[phazedowt]

I can't speak for everyone who's waiting for C2Ds, but the way I see it, its not about the 7% (or insert other small number here) gain in performance or the mythical lower temperature or longer battery life. Its a better long-term investment simply (in my view) because of the addition of 64-bit computing. Sure I won't be running any software now that would require it, but if 2-3 years down the line there is something that requires a 64-bit CPU that I'd want to run, I'll be prepared. On the other hand, if I was expecting to keep my laptop for 2 or less years, I'd have bought one of the current macbook pros weeks ago.

[sieb]

Yawn.. It will be a silent upgrade for Xmas.. Its not THAT much better, no point in stressing out over it, just buy a MBP already, there will always be something better/newer just around the corner, its pointless to wait.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by hldan

Aside from the OS's several Windows machines with close to the same major specs have so much more in them right now. 200GB HD's and 1-2GB ram standard and 256MB video ram standard (non shared graphics cards) and DL optical drives, the majority have bluetooth and wireless built-in. I have found most of these on Sony's and Lenovo's which are usually on par with Apple's design offerings. Even the new iMacs are killin' the MacBook Pros in features.
I'm just a bit disappointed at this point.

Exactly where are you finding laptops with 200GB hard drives? (Hint: 200GB laptop drives don't exist). I couldn't find any Lenovo laptops with specs near what you described. And the Sony's with similar specs cost about $2500.

Chris

[Elektrix]

Originally Posted by chabig

Exactly where are you finding laptops with 200GB hard drives? (Hint: 200GB laptop drives don't exist). Also, Sony laptops are not know for their low prices.

Chris

Toshiba's P105-S9722 (and the P105-S9312 before it) feature 200GB 2.5" HD's. Dell also offers them as a configurable option.

Some Sony laptops are actually reasonably priced compared to their competition, like the FE and FJ series, and the upcoming C series. Even the higher-end models are not ridiculously overpriced considering their size and performance (i.e. the TX and SZ series aren't significantly more expensive t han comparable machines).

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Elektrix

Toshiba's P105-S9722 (and the P105-S9312 before it) feature 200GB 2.5" HD's. Dell also offers them as a configurable option.

I stand corrected. However, note that those drives are 4200 RPM and 12.5mm high. Therefore, they're relatively slow and they're too large for Apple's sleek machines. Naturally, they fit in the 8-9 pound Windows behemoths.

[Elektrix]

Originally Posted by chabig

I stand corrected. However, note that those drives are 4200 RPM and 12.5mm high. Therefore, they're relatively slow and they're too large for Apple's sleek machines. Naturally, they fit in the 8-9 pound Windows behemoths.

Where do you see the dimensions of these HD's exactly? At least from the Toshiba stuff I've seen, the hard drive in it is the same height as any other 2.5" drive.

[chabig]

My searching reveals two 200GB hard drives; one from Fujitsu and one from Toshiba.

They both are 4200RPM. The Fujitsu drive is 12.5mm high, and the Toshiba drive is 9.5mm high.

Chris

[hldan]

Originally Posted by chabig

Exactly where are you finding laptops with 200GB hard drives? (Hint: 200GB laptop drives don't exist). I couldn't find any Lenovo laptops with specs near what you described. And the Sony's with similar specs cost about $2500.

Chris

Try these on for size, both of these Sony laptops carry a 200GB HDD and actually the cheaper one has a 5400RPM drive. Once again I don't want to be flamed because the is NOT a Windows vs. Mac comparison but Apple needs to be a bit more generous with the forthcoming MBP update. Yes, granted the top model has a 4200RPM HDD and slower ram but to most consumers they won't be able to tell the difference with these fast Intel processors especially for most notebook uses.

In this world people look for size vs. quality. Scenario, hmm I'm buying a new laptop today, the one on the left has a 200GB HDD and 2GB ram standard and a newer C2D processor (Sony) but the one on the right cost a $500 more but has a 120GB HDD and 1GB ram standard (Mac). Sure it's a Mac and I have been told it's better but I can get much more for less with a big name like Sony.

That's my concern. Apple got it right with the Mac Pro to compete with others but the MBP's need to grab the consumer. The current 15" MBP customers got jipped getting a basic and slower Superdrive than the previous model. I don't buy it that there was a problem fitting it, I have seen many smaller laptops with DL DVD drive.
Here are the links below.

SonyStyle.com | Sony VAIO� AR170GU1 Notebook

SonyStyle.com | Sony VAIO� AR250G Notebook

[Elektrix]

Originally Posted by hldan

Try these on for size, both of these Sony laptops carry a 200GB HDD and actually the cheaper one has a 5400RPM drive. Once again I don't want to be flamed because the is NOT a Windows vs. Mac comparison but Apple needs to be a bit more generous with the forthcoming MBP update. Yes, granted the top model has a 4200RPM HDD and slower ram but to most consumers they won't be able to tell the difference with these fast Intel processors especially for most notebook uses.

In this world people look for size vs. quality. Scenario, hmm I'm buying a new laptop today, the one on the left has a 200GB HDD and 2GB ram standard and a newer C2D processor (Sony) but the one on the right cost a $500 more but has a 120GB HDD and 1GB ram standard (Mac). Sure it's a Mac and I have been told it's better but I can get much more for less with a big name like Sony.

That's my concern. Apple got it right with the Mac Pro to compete with others but the MBP's need to grab the consumer. The current 15" MBP customers got jipped getting a basic and slower Superdrive than the previous model. I don't buy it that there was a problem fitting it, I have seen many smaller laptops with DL DVD drive.
Here are the links below.

SonyStyle.com | Sony VAIO� AR170GU1 Notebook

SonyStyle.com | Sony VAIO� AR250G Notebook

I really wonder if that's a typo, re: the 5400rpm 200GB HD. No-one else seems to have 5400rpm drives of 200GB capacity, only 4200rpm. And that's what they put in the CHEAPER model? I don't buy it, and I'm almost sure that has to be an error in the specs there.

[atc ben]

I thought one of the main benefits of switching to Intel would be the ability to update more frequently and compete directly with PC manufacturers. The time it's taking Apple to update it's flagship laptop line is now approaching ridiculous. Has Apple actually said anywhere that it's going to update the MBP or we all just going on the rumor sites info? Since they haven't done it by now, I think they either have something much bigger than a chip swap in the works, or I just don't think it's going to happen at all until the new year. Afterall, the iMac has already been updated with the new processor.

[Elektrix]

It's just assumed that Apple will upgrade eventually. As you noted, they upgraded the iMac so it's not like Apple has some problem with Core 2 Duo. And it's also not like Apple is reluctant to upgrade MBP's, as they already did it once with the speedbumped Yonahs (1.83 and 2.0 to 2.0 and 2.16).

-Elektrix

[mduell]

Originally Posted by atc ben

I thought one of the main benefits of switching to Intel would be the ability to update more frequently and compete directly with PC manufacturers. The time it's taking Apple to update it's flagship laptop line is now approaching ridiculous. Has Apple actually said anywhere that it's going to update the MBP or we all just going on the rumor sites info? Since they haven't done it by now, I think they either have something much bigger than a chip swap in the works, or I just don't think it's going to happen at all until the new year. Afterall, the iMac has already been updated with the new processor.

As far as I know, Apple can update any day they want to. There are no known technical issues preventing the upgrade. Many other OEMs are using the new chips with the same chipsets, and Intel's docs show that power/heat shouldn't be a concern (within 10%).
I'd assume that sales are still going well so Apple is just milking the margins for now.

[workerbee]

Originally Posted by mduell

I'd assume that sales are still going well so Apple is just milking the margins for now.

You are almost certainly wrong here, because Apple would never ever do such a nefarious thing!

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by mduell

As far as I know, Apple can update any day they want to. There are no known technical issues preventing the upgrade. Many other OEMs are using the new chips with the same chipsets, and Intel's docs show that power/heat shouldn't be a concern (within 10%).
I'd assume that sales are still going well so Apple is just milking the margins for now.

I would posit that (hopefully) the reason Meroms (today, Monday) have not yet been announced is because in addition to clearing the channel Apple is working to get it right. Meaning RAM, hard drive capacity, Superdrives, etc. All of which equate to heat which entails engineering, not just plugging in a later generation chip as many folks allude to.

-Allen Wicks

[Simon]

Yeah, I guess it's pretty clear now. Apple is either

- 'milking the margins' since their MB and MBP sales are going strong they can just wait for MWSF and clear supplies in the meantime

or

- they are actually investing a greater effort into some kind of redesign and are waiting to release Merom MBPs until this redesign is complete.

I'd like to believe it's the latter. There is no doubt that the original rev A MBP was completed in a hurry. Its resemblance to the last PB G4 is no coincidence. Remember that Intel released Yonah up to 6 months earlier than what they originally expected. The MB design was completed some months ago, so Apple's portable engineers have had quite some time to do other stuff. Here's hoping.

[siflippant]

Originally Posted by MovieCutter

On Tuesday, DEFINITELY Tuesday, my source tells me it's an absolute guarantee.

Well, still no update at The Apple Store... how long have we got before there won't be any updates today? It's 14.17 GMT and 09.17 EST as I type this...

Like everyone else I was really hoping something might give today...

[MartyMcSly]

Don't forget that it's a consumer driver market guys. If you want updated macbook pros (like I do) - just don't buy the current ones. If nobody bought a current model MBP then apple would be forced into upgrading sooner. They will soon catch on when MBPs sell out after they release an update.

The internet is a powerful thing and if we stick together and act as a cohesive group - we have the power to almost control the way apple and other companies behave - without it's customers (loyal and new adopters) apple is nothing. Don't forget this!

Bring on the next MBP with a merom, proc a magnetic latch and a macbook style keyboard apple! Soon, apple, --- soon - or take a battering in the sales department!! Who's with me?!

[jamil5454]

Well... the Apple Store is still up. Seems like it's not going to be this week.