Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

josiahpugh · Feb 22, 2001, 12:27 AM

I was looking on Apple's web site, and found several mentions of the CD-RW being able to read CDs, and the DVD being able to read DVDs but what the hell about reading DVDs in the DVD players?? Arrgh, please tell me that I can.

josiahpugh · Feb 22, 2001, 12:29 AM

Oh yeah, almost forgot, what about the new iMacs?

austeros · Feb 22, 2001, 12:29 AM

nope... if you buy a cdrw cube, it wont read a dvd.... a dvd cube cab read all cd types, but it wont write cds.

sorry

austeros · Feb 22, 2001, 12:31 AM

nope... the imacs cant either... in my opinion, apple is shooting themselves in the foot with that. a combo drive in the highend models would have been the way to go

hmurchison2001 · Feb 22, 2001, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by austeros:
nope... the imacs cant either... in my opinion, apple is shooting themselves in the foot with that. a combo drive in the highend models would have been the way to go

Keep in mind these are the FIRST slot load CDRW the computing market has seen. DVD/CDRW drives require dual optics...it may take another 6 months or so to get a slot loader version.

josiahpugh · Feb 22, 2001, 01:01 AM

THIS SUCKS!

snodman · Feb 22, 2001, 01:15 AM

AppleInsider and MOSR both got it wrong about combo drives. Nothing Apple is shipping or has announced (including tonight) has a DVD/CDRW combo drive in it. Not as big a surprise as you might think if the rumors about no DVD support in OS X version 1.0 are true (supposed to get added a month or two after the March 24th launch as a point release).

abnyc · Feb 22, 2001, 01:38 AM

chill out, dvd-rom/cd-rw hybrids are very shotty and dual drives that read one variation of media (cd/dvd disks) internally is dumb. if you get an internal dvd you can get an external cdrw. or...superdrive, what the hell!

schwei · Feb 22, 2001, 01:51 AM

So, let's see if we've got this straight, using the Jobs "late to the party" quip from Jan 9. Apple has basically left one "party" upstairs in one room for the grownups (DVD/CD playback and recording at the top end, one config only, and of course playback on the Ti PB) because they joined another "party" late downstairs with the kids in the rumpus room (audio/files only).

The fundamental truth in the market seems to be that DVD-video thru a low/mid-priced desktop computer is "politically unattractive" because it steals from the standalone player market, at least right now. My brother who only uses WebTV said a while ago "They want you to buy that DVD player!" as a reason not to make the full home theater experience an easy solution on the Mac.

So no more "A Bug's Life" freebie in the box.

jamesa · Feb 22, 2001, 01:53 AM

I'm disappointed that they're dropping DVD in the face of public pressure. They could have leverage this to quite some advantage in the future - imagine, if 80% of mac users had dvd drives, you could ship software on the new drives.

They've let it slip now... dammit!

spicyjeff · Feb 22, 2001, 02:15 AM

They didn't drop DVD. Unless you get an iMac, the Cube and G4s BTO options let you choose between DVD or CDRW. Now if you want both...well be prepared to pay the premium and get the SuperDrive which is still very limited in quantity.

Believe me, Apple would love to put CD-RW/DVD-R SuperDrives in every machine...but they can't there are just not enough of them manufactured yet.

meckardt · Feb 22, 2001, 02:45 AM

DVD as a BTO option just reads like this to me. There is no native Apple DVD Player Software ready for March 24th. Or did the latest internal builds of MacOS X come with DVD Player Software?

Feb 22, 2001, 02:50 AM

LOL,

in my opinion, apple is shooting themselves in the foot

Yeah, since those iMacs were flying off the shelves with everyone so excited to get them home to watch DVDs on them. Because that's what "grownups" do

I don't know what sort of "grownups" you hang out with, but every computer owner I know from 25-71 years old either has a CD burner or wants one.

Gimmie a break, how many people actually watch DVDs on their desktop computers? I don't know a single person who has watched more than one or two DVDs for novelty on their powermacs or iMacs. DVD-ROM is nothing but a gimmick on anything other than a laptop (even then that's pushing it). Go watch them in your livingroom on your 50" TVs, the way they are meant to be seen. Then try burning a CD in your livingroom...see what I mean? Computers should do things that livingroom entertainment systems cannot. And I don't understand what's so great about watching a movie at your desk with work piled high around and a keyboard to get crumbs inside.

I think Apple did the right thing. When I buy my next mac, I won't have to spend another $300 on a firewire CDRW drive so I can burn CDs. I think those who want to watch movies on their computers should be the ones who have to buy an extra drive, because they are in the minority.

Sorry for the rant but I am sick of seeing people whine about the virtues of DVD players on their computers.

Feb 22, 2001, 03:01 AM

imagine, if 80% of mac users had dvd drives, you could ship software on the new drives.

This was the reason for dvd-ROM in the first place. Apple gambled that software would start being released on dvd-roms, but they were wrong. Name a few software titles that come in dvd-rom.

"They want you to buy that DVD player!" as a reason not to make the full home theater experience an easy solution on the Mac.

So by this reasoning, Apple leaves out a hi-fi receiver and amplifier in macs because "they want you to buy that home stereo system", and they leave out a 50" CRT because "they want you to buy a TV".

Macs are for creating. That means editing digital video and digital audio, and then burning your creations onto discs. CDRW, DVD-R are perfect for this. If you buy a computer to be nothing more than a passive media player, then you are wasting your money...DVD players are only $150 or so and same goes for CD players.

PowerTower User · Feb 22, 2001, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by Phaedrus:
Gimmie a break, how many people actually watch DVDs on their desktop computers? I don't know a single person who has watched more than one or two DVDs for novelty on their powermacs or iMacs. DVD-ROM is nothing but a gimmick on anything other than a laptop (even then that's pushing it). Go watch them in your livingroom on your 50" TVs, the way they are meant to be seen. Then try burning a CD in your livingroom...see what I mean? Computers should do things that livingroom entertainment systems cannot. And I don't understand what's so great about watching a movie at your desk with work piled high around and a keyboard to get crumbs inside.

I think Apple did the right thing. When I buy my next mac, I won't have to spend another $300 on a firewire CDRW drive so I can burn CDs. I think those who want to watch movies on their computers should be the ones who have to buy an extra drive, because they are in the minority.

Here at my college, and i'm not going to some rich private one, almost everyone I know has a built in DVD player in their computers and they are extremely popular. Watching DVD movies is something we do all the time and most people don't even have tv's in their rooms anymore, as all they need is a DVD player and a tv card in their computer. IMO leaving DVD drives out of the computers is the last thing they should have done as the low-end users are the ones using them, the exact market the iMacs are targeting.

wumeng · Feb 22, 2001, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by PowerTower User:
Here at my college, and i'm not going to some rich private one, almost everyone I know has a built in DVD player in their computers and they are extremely popular. Watching DVD movies is something we do all the time and most people don't even have tv's in their rooms anymore, as all they need is a DVD player and a tv card in their computer. IMO leaving DVD drives out of the computers is the last thing they should have done as the low-end users are the ones using them, the exact market the iMacs are targeting.

That's a very relevant point -- DVD on a computer costs less than getting a computer, a DVD player, and TV. And if you're not into TV, the DVD-equipped Mac makes more and more sense.

Feb 22, 2001, 07:34 AM

What about dolby digital support whiht all DVD equipped Macs?

P · Feb 22, 2001, 08:53 AM

The one thing that's strange about removing the DVD is that the DVD is a very important part of the "digital hub" thingy - add an S-Video connector and you have a DVD player included! For the hard-core computer user, however, CD-RW is the way to go.

TheDoctor · Feb 22, 2001, 09:31 AM

bingoman,

Creative has been making Dolby sound cards for at least a year now. If I were putting together a "dark side" machine, you better believe I would have a DVD-ROM and one of those sound cards.

Feb 22, 2001, 03:23 PM

Have to disagree with Phaedrus and agree with PowerTower on the DVD issue. Phaedrus, your assumption that "DVD-ROM is nothing but a gimmick on anything other than a laptop (even then that's pushing it)" is incorrect. There's a market for DVD drives on computers just like there's one for CD-RW drives. I'm at university in England and like PowerTower, everyone here who has a DVD drive in their computer uses it to watch movies. There isn't one person who has a TV and DVD standalone. As a student I haven't met anyone who has the desire to spend cash on a separate DVD player, but since most people need a computer, having a DVD player ends up being a real bonus because it's a good way to watch movies.

mkincaid · Feb 24, 2001, 02:26 AM

I think this situation of choosing between CD-RW and DVD is temporary. In the MWSF01 keynote Steve Jobs mentioned some combo (write CD, read DVD) drives coming in the summer. Apple isn't really throwing away DVD, but I think they felt CD-RW was more important to ship first, since apparently the combo drives aren't ready yet.

I think the ideal solution is a CD-RW/DVD combo for most machines, then the SuperDrive for high-end machines (most users don't want to write DVDs, just read them). Of course, I wouldn't mind it if all the models ended up with SuperDrives

snodman · Feb 24, 2001, 03:16 AM

Right. In the keynote Steve Jobs did not exactly promise CD/DVD/CDRW combo drives, but did mention them with a slide and the comment "they really are not available in quantity until spring". This tells me that they get put into iMacs and G4s by July at the latest. Remember, Apple is promising wall street that they will turn a profit this quarter, so any computer part that is in really short supply gets in the way of sales. They were not going to delay the (very much needed) refresh of the iMac line just to wait for combo drives to ship in large enough quantities to be workable. The combo drive would go into the most expensive iMac, which also is the most profitable iMac for Apple to sell and an "available in 6 weeks" asterisk next to that model just was not going to cut it.