[BadKosh]

And people like this are allowed to make new gun laws?

CO Democrat Doesn't Understand High-Capacity Magazines Can Be Reloaded | RealClearPolitics

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

And people like this are allowed to make new gun laws?

CO Democrat Doesn't Understand High-Capacity Magazines Can Be Reloaded | RealClearPolitics

Classic.

[Shaddim]

Wow...

[BadKosh]

She' blathering again!

CO Dem Rep Tells Senior Citizen "You'd Probably Be Dead Anyway" | RealClearPolitics

When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away.

[Snow-i]

Fox picked it up.

Democratic rep ridiculed for fumbling facts on gun magazines | Fox News

[BadKosh]

Interesting that none of her Democrat supporters corrected her mistakes. Could it be they didn't know anything either? Is this a pattern?

[cgc]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm noticing a trend of:

Ask a question.
I answer.
Response is "you're an idiot/retard/whatever for answering".

Ever think maybe you are in fact an idiot and/or retard?

Just kidding, people in forums are getting meaner and more self absorbed than ever. The Idiocracy is forming...

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm noticing a trend of:

Ask a question.
I answer.
Response is "you're an idiot/retard/whatever for answering".

since 2003.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

And people like this are allowed to make new gun laws?

CO Democrat Doesn't Understand High-Capacity Magazines Can Be Reloaded | RealClearPolitics

While I support a ban on high capacity magazines ... I must admit that this lady's comment was astoundingly stupid.

OAW

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by OAW 

While I support a ban on high capacity magazines ... I must admit that this lady's comment was astoundingly stupid.

OAW

Her followup was almost just as stupid.

"I guess you just die'

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Ann Coulter: Gun Crime Is 'Demographic Problem'
also:
http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...6/#post4212232

Edit: it's not fair of me to demand an opinion while withholding mine: I think there's a kernel of truth in her stack of lies and divisiveness. Just like Ca$h's thread about condemning the South for being fat (which turned out to be a proxy for condemning the African American population for being fat, who happen to be concentrated in the South), it is undoubtedly true that gun violence is one problem in one racial population, and an entirely different problem in the next racial population. This doesn't suggest any obvious solution to the problem, and it certainly doesn't tell us that there is no problem, but IMO it does strongly imply to us that the solution, whatever it is, will not be very successful if it doesn't account for the reason this is so.

I think Ann Coulter purposely decided to ignore the economics of the situation.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

It depends on each individual. Are they of clear and sane mind? How do you define that? In many cases no, in some cases, yes.

I define that as unencumbered by suffering from depression, from which one can suffer suicidal thoughts and intent.

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Yes, which is why we should focus on making help available to them. We cannot protect people from themselves via regulation and it is a fool's errand to try.

What about seatbelt laws? Workplace safety laws?

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

IMO, guns don't play into this debate at all, unless you'd like to regulate every household danger that could potentially harm a mentally defective individual. IMO, It's another classic case of attempting to regulate the symptoms or methods without addressing the cause as a feel good piece of legislation. I'm not accusing you of this, but many in my age group hold these views simply because they are fashionable. It saddens me that when prodded even a little bit they cannot answer why their arguments are good for fellow man. I always state my view and in those cases, encourage them to explore the issues further for themselves before spitting out talking points.

It's also a classic case of illustrating that guns are really good at taking lives. It was posted in another thread, but Israel suffered from a high incidence of soldiers committing suicides. By simply banning them from taking them on weekend leave the rate of incidents dropped dramatically.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

And people like this are allowed to make new gun laws?

CO Democrat Doesn't Understand High-Capacity Magazines Can Be Reloaded | RealClearPolitics

They are allowed to vote on them, unfortunately.

Did she think they were like cans of soda?

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I define that as unencumbered by suffering from depression, from which one can suffer suicidal thoughts and intent.

Do you think one can be thinking rationally when they decide to kill themselves?

What about seatbelt laws? Workplace safety laws?

Seatbelt laws - irrelevant. We are not removing/limiting someone's right with them but yes, I think they are stupid. They slow down evolution, and hamper natural selection.

Workplace safety laws? That's not protecting people from themselves, that's protecting people from being forced into unsafe environments by employers.

It's also a classic case of illustrating that guns are really good at taking lives. It was posted in another thread, but Israel suffered from a high incidence of soldiers committing suicides. By simply banning them from taking them on weekend leave the rate of incidents dropped dramatically.

Citation? And did suicides drop dramatically or gun-related suicides drop dramatically?

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

They are allowed to vote on them, unfortunately.

Did she think they were like cans of soda?

I blame Doom.

Taught a whole generation to take three shots, toss it, and reload.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Do you think one can be thinking rationally when they decide to kill themselves?

Sure.

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Seatbelt laws - irrelevant. We are not removing/limiting someone's right

We already limit people's guns rights. It's constitutional according to the SCOTUS.

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

yes, I think they are stupid. They slow down evolution, and hamper natural selection.

I had a feeling we were going down the social darwinian path. This kind of apathy always feels misinformed or indifferent. Smart people do dumb things. Doesn't make their life any less valuable.

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Workplace safety laws? That's not protecting people from themselves, that's protecting people from being forced into unsafe environments by employers.

I've been yelled at for not wearing my hardhat because I was sick of it weighing down on my head. Should we repeal workplace safety in the name of natural selection?

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Citation? And did suicides drop dramatically or gun-related suicides drop dramatically?

http://gsoa.feinheit.ch/media/medial...2/Lubin_10.pdf

The use of firearms is a common means of suicide. We examined the effect of a policy change in the Israeli Defense Forces reducing adolescents’ access to firearms on rates of suicide. Following the policy change, suicide rates decreased significantly by 40%. Most of this decrease was due to decrease in suicide using firearms over the weekend. There were no significant changes in rates of suicide during weekdays. Decreasing access to firearms significantly decreases rates of suicide among adolescents. The results of this study illustrate the ability of a rela- tively simple change in policy to have a major impact on suicide rates.

The high rate of suicide among the young is worth noting. Voting is a right we limit until you're 18. What if we limited firearms access until an age where statistically suicides dropped off (I believe thats around 25)?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

I blame Doom.

Taught a whole generation to take three shots, toss it, and reload.

DOOM? I don't recall fire and drop weapons there.

[subego]

Fire and drop magazines.

Every FPS player ditches their mag after a combat and puts in a fresh one, even if it's only short a few rounds.

[The Final Dakar]

Oh. Well that's every video game ever.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I think Ann Coulter purposely decided to ignore the economics of the situation.

And the Washington Post did the same? (apologies, I only skimmed it, but didn't see mention of economics)

If we swap "race" for "wealth" does that change anything? Either way we have 10x more gun homicides among one demographic than the other. We can't expect even the most wildly successful gun control measure to be effective enough to cause a 10:1 reduction, IOW we can expect any possible gun control method to still be dwarfed by this x-factor, whether it be race or economics, or any of a list of other characteristics that happen to coincide with race (unfortunately: crime? drug use? mistreatment by the criminal justice system?). Whatever it is, I don't see how it can be addressed by any gun control proposal to date. With the possible exception of ending the War on Drugs.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

And the Washington Post did the same? (apologies, I only skimmed it, but didn't see mention of economics)

If we swap "race" for "wealth" does that change anything? .

Yes, Ann Coulter comes off as less of a twat.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Yes, Ann Coulter comes off as less of a twat.

It doesn't really matter what words you use.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV 

It doesn't really matter what words you use.

A twat by any other name?

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

With the possible exception of ending the War on Drugs.

This.

OAW

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by OAW 

This.

OAW

Yeah, it's my favorite competitor, in the same way that Ron Paul is my favorite. The chance of either being sworn in is so vanishingly small that I don't even have to bother thinking about what the down-sides would be

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Interesting that none of her Democrat supporters corrected her mistakes.

Edit: I imagine it's kinda like how democrats stick up for each other around here. Look what they let Athens get away with saying.

Could it be they didn't know anything either? Is this a pattern?

Um.. Could it be? really? Are we just now learning that democrats are mostly naive children who don't know anything... about anything? While others like Diana are just naive children who were so spoiled they never gained the wisdom that comes with growing up? So they all look to the 'experts' in government to do everything think everything for them? It doesn't stop with guns either... These same experts want control of your health care, and retirement, among other things.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

She' blathering again!

CO Dem Rep Tells Senior Citizen "You'd Probably Be Dead Anyway" | RealClearPolitics

When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away.

She makes a great case for the other side's argument; but rest assured the dems are putting fingers in their ears going lalalala and nothing will sway their mind which is already made up no matter how illogical. They will follow this one to the bloody end because it's not about logic, it's about finding ways to create sides and piss large groups of people off; thats what liberalism is all about.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

Edit: I imagine it's kinda like how democrats stick up for each other around here

Oh right, conservatives wouldn't dare to support each other.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

A twat by any other name?

...would smell as swee-HEY!

[el chupacabra]

I didn't see where this was already posted, but there's another one who doesn't know how they work who was trying to legislate for us ( in the video of this page).
Congresswoman Doesn't Know How Guns Work - The Daily Beast

It seems they have gone back to do some internet research on how guns work; but research even at the wiki level appears to be a challenge for them.... and they came up with this (below) as their best defense "of what she meant" which demonstrates, even after all that they still don't know how guns work...

DeGette’s spokeswoman Juliet Johnson issued a statement Wednesday, saying the congresswoman mispoke.

“The Congresswoman has been working on a high-capacity assault magazine ban for years, and has been deeply involved in the issue; she simply misspoke in referring to ‘magazines’ when she should have referred to ‘clips,’ which cannot be reused because they don’t have a feeding mechanism,” Johnson said. “Quite frankly, this is just another example of opponents of common-sense gun violence prevention trying to manipulate the facts to distract from the critical issue of keeping our children safe and keeping killing machines out of the hands of disturbed individuals. It’s more political gamesmanship that stands in the way of responsible solutions.”

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

but research even at the wiki level appears to be a challenge for them.... and they came up with this (below) as their best defense "of what she meant" which demonstrates, even after all that they still don't know how guns work...

Can you explain what is incorrect about that explanation they gave? Are clips reloadable? Or are clips not banned under the proposed legislation?

[subego]

A clip is a magazine loader. They are reloadable.

A magazine is what feeds the bullets into the chamber. Also reloadable.

Most modern guns have detachable magazines, so clips aren't necessary unless you're in a hurry. You certainly don't use one in the field*

Some old-timey guns have non-detachable magazines, so the way you load them is with a clip. An M1 Garand and the "broomhandle" Mauser are the most well known examples. If you've ever seen a WWII movie, the thing which flies out at your face with a "shing" sound is an empty clip for an M1.

I'll dig up pics.

*Revolvers are old-timey, but people still use them. The swing-out cylinder part is the (non-detachable) magazine. A speedloader for it would be a clip.

[subego]

[Shaddim]

Damn, the hole keeps getting deeper. Geez.

[subego]

M1 Garand Ping! Tribute - YouTube

[subego]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Damn, the hole keeps getting deeper. Geez.

I almost think she's trolling.

[Snow-i]

To me its a classic example of the ruling class mentality.

Even her press secretary doesn't know what the hell they are talking about, yet they still consider themselves experts on the subject. They get all up and arms like they have a wild hair up their asses if you try to oppose them, but are so out of touch with the issue that we'll all have to suffer the consequences of their narcissism reality be damned.

[subego]

I disagree.

The ruling class knows when to keep its mouth shut, and how to hire PR flacks who don't suck.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Can you explain what is incorrect about that explanation they gave? Are clips re-loadable? Or are clips not banned under the proposed legislation?

Yeah what Subego said. Basically the comedy is something you can't pay for. I can visualize the conversation of the team at her office going down something like this:

"Everybody's making fun of us. We better research magazines and come up with a story. Hmm, it says here on the internet that clips aren't re-loadable and magazines are. Phew.. Were in luck ! we'll just say we meant clips."

This is what her whole team of leaders came up with and agreed upon when they put their heads together on the subject.
In a best case scenario the senator, and her whole team apparently, is saying she got confused and thought we were talking about ancient world-war technology for a second.
So what I'd like to say to Diana is: "Psst, modern guns don't need clips" "Psst they can in fact be reused" "Psst, there's no such thing as high capacity clips, hence the debate was never about clips, it was understood to always be about magazines".

I, chupacabra am no gun expert; never even owned one, I even like to say "clips" incorrectly (I like 1 syllable words) when really everyone knows I mean magazine. I didn't even know what magazines were until a few months ago. So this isn't gun geek stuff, just stuff our team of leaders who's obsessed with this issue should know.

[Shaddim]

I say "clip" out on the range, "hand me that clip". Even though I know it's a magazine, I don't care. Folks know what I'm talking about. This twit didn't, still doesn't, and is either wholly ignorant of the entire subject, or she's trolling (hard). Either way, she has no business representing anyone on this issue.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by subego 

A clip is a magazine loader. They are reloadable.

A magazine is what feeds the bullets into the chamber. Also reloadable.

Most modern guns have detachable magazines, so clips aren't necessary unless you're in a hurry. You certainly don't use one in the field*

Some old-timey guns have non-detachable magazines, so the way you load them is with a clip. An M1 Garand and the "broomhandle" Mauser are the most well known examples. If you've ever seen a WWII movie, the thing which flies out at your face with a "shing" sound is an empty clip for an M1.

I'll dig up pics.

*Revolvers are old-timey, but people still use them. The swing-out cylinder part is the (non-detachable) magazine. A speedloader for it would be a clip.

Admirable attempt to establish a nomenclature, but I've always heard your use of "clip" distinguished as "stripper clip," especially in the context of Mauser pistols and the SKS (with fixed magazines). I even have a big black can of British .303 that is full of "strip clips" in bandoliers, and a friend of mine a few years ago (who is from Texas, not back east) gave me a few of these bandoliers full of ammo that he didn't need and said "they're already in the strip clips." I have a few "strip clips" for the last Moisin-Nagant rifle I bought - the nice fellow threw them in as part of the deal.

I'm not sure folks would have to distinguish between "clips" and "stripper clips" if "magazine" was as universal as everyone seems to think it is. When I was younger a "magazine" was an isolated place where you stored shot and powder for nearby artillery. That, or the thing that Hugh Hefner was selling.

I think most folks who are making a fuss over clip vs. magazine are being Elmer Fudds. Besides, who wants to correct these morons in the political class? Let them look like the idiots they are.

[finboy]

One more question, while we're at it:

Where does the expression "lock and load" come from? I've always understood that it meant locking the bolt back (on a Springfield rifle) and then "loading" a strip clip full of 5 rounds. Or maybe doing the same for an M1 Garand.

Or maybe it's an artillery term that got translated, since the breech block has to be locked open in order to load rounds in a modern cannon.

Any ideas? Beuhler, Beuhler?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Where does the expression "lock and load" come from?

It refers to the stages of operation in an automatic or semi-automatic weapon. For instance, the stages of operation for the C7 (the Canadian variant of the M16/M4) are:
1) firing
2) unlocking
3) extracting
4) ejecting
5) cocking
6) loading
7) locking

"Loading" means the bolt pushing the round from the magazine into the chamber, and "locking" means the bolt is fixed in place with the firing pin behind the round. Basically, once you're "locked and loaded," you're ready to fire. (Really, the expression should be "loaded and locked", since that's the actual order of events, but whatever.)

Other weapons might have their own stages, I just don't know them off the top of my head.

[subego]

Originally Posted by finboy 

I'm not sure folks would have to distinguish between "clips" and "stripper clips" if "magazine" was as universal as everyone seems to think it is. When I was younger a "magazine" was an isolated place where you stored shot and powder for nearby artillery. That, or the thing that Hugh Hefner was selling.

I think most folks who are making a fuss over clip vs. magazine are being Elmer Fudds. Besides, who wants to correct these morons in the political class? Let them look like the idiots they are.

I put the clip vs. magazine argument up there with font vs. typeface in terms of futility.

That being said, what you describe as an artillery magazine is what a gun magazine is. An isolated place where you store shot and powder. A clip, stripper or otherwise, isn't isolated.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Other weapons might have their own stages, I just don't know them off the top of my head.

Awesome, thanks!

I wonder why it's backwards then.

[Buckaroo]

Is it time for a national Pressure Cooker Registry?

[subego]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Awesome, thanks!

I wonder why it's backwards then.

IIUC, it's reversed for an M1. You lock the bolt open and then load in a clip.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Is it time for a national Pressure Cooker Registry?

Restrict them to smaller capacities?

[Snow-i]

Anyone else watching Obama's address?

He seems pissed, and his rhetoric is very unpresidential.

Using terms such as
"are you serious?"
"shameful day for washington'
"the gun lobby lied to the american public"
"even without congress my administration will continue to push the issue"

Come on Obama... Come off it mate.

[OAW]

If the US Senate can't pass an amendment on a 54-46 MAJORITY vote that's supported by 90%+ of the population, then it is officially "the world's most deliberative dysfunctional body". If this isn't a classic case of why filibuster reform is imperative then I don't know what is. The GOP wants to block the legislation? Fine. Then do it old school like Sen. Rand Paul did recently and hold the floor.

OAW