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Macpilot · Nov 6, 2003, 05:30 PM

Well, it seems that the two problems I had with Jaguar Mail have not been fixed in Panther:

#1 Mail keeps prompting to enter passwords that are already in the Mail Prefs, and then those passwords (correct passwords) are rejected. This has never happened with ANY other Mail apps I have used under OS X, which include Entourage, Gyazmail, and Eudora.

#2 Mail tells me the server failed to deliver the mail and uses the wrong server.

When is Apple going to fix this issue once and for all?

This is on a clean install of Panther. One .mac account and two Roadrunner accounts set up in Mail prefs.

cpac · Nov 6, 2003, 06:33 PM

this prompt only happens occasionally, and usually when one's network access is flaky, or where you've been logging into a POP3 server so frequently that that server hasn't logged you out out by the next time Mail tries to log you in...

try checking for mail less frequently/making sure your connection isn't flaking out on you.

::maroma:: · Nov 6, 2003, 06:47 PM

Your first problem can be fixed with a small utility called Apple Keychain First Aid. It actually fixes the Keychain, which is what is causing your password to be rejected. I had the same problem in Jag, and running this app fixed it.

Never experienced or heard of your second problem though.

Macpilot · Nov 7, 2003, 08:20 PM

Thanks for the tips. I have tried Keychain repair. It did not work.

beijinger · Nov 7, 2003, 09:16 PM

Had assorted other problems with Panther's mail. Every mail check randomly selects only ONE of my five email boxes. Even when I use check all, it would still only go to one only. Tried every conceivable thing to no avail. Hate to do it, but off to Entourage until Apple fixes this thing. Got this silly problem on both my macs.

Panther is a clean install on both 600 iBook with 640 ram and 1.33 AlPB with 1G ram.

cpac · Nov 8, 2003, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by beijinger:
Had assorted other problems with Panther's mail. Every mail check randomly selects only ONE of my five email boxes. Even when I use check all, it would still only go to one only. Tried every conceivable thing to no avail. Hate to do it, but off to Entourage until Apple fixes this thing. Got this silly problem on both my macs.

Panther is a clean install on both 600 iBook with 640 ram and 1.33 AlPB with 1G ram.

are you absolutely certain it's only checking one account? Have you opened the activity viewer to see what's going on when you check?

I've never heard of this behavior before...

wfolta · Nov 8, 2003, 03:10 AM

And this is killing me as I check messages from work and home (via two "different" accounts because one needs to go through a proxy and the other does not).

Duplicate city!

Mobile Mod · Nov 8, 2003, 03:38 AM

Another thing to add to this thread, and maybe someone can help me, does anyone have Panther mail that does not learn what is and what is not junk mail? I get the same message everyday almost and i say its junk everytime but mail still puts it in my inbox. Also, sometimes mail will make something brown like its junk and leave it in my inbox... WTF???

Justin

sja777 · Nov 8, 2003, 07:15 AM

Isn't this a documented FileVault problem? I understand that if you have FV activaed and opt to recover hard drive space at log-out it has a tendancy to loose keychain info ... ?

beijinger · Nov 8, 2003, 07:27 AM

I've never heard of this behavior before... [/B][/QUOTE]

Absolutely, have it monitered closely and each time its only one or the other of the email boxes. Ugh! really frustrating.

Thor · Nov 8, 2003, 08:08 AM

When is Apple going to fix this issue once and for all?

If this were a Mail.app issue, wouldn't ALL users be affected?

I'm not dismissing what you're saying, but I've never seen the problems that you describe-- either in Jag, or Panther.

sumit · Nov 8, 2003, 08:21 AM

have the same exact issue - mail doesn't seem to learn about junk, keeps leaving most (not every) junk mail in my inbox rather than running the junk rule, when rule run manually junk moves correctly to junk folder

sumit

Originally posted by Mobile Mod:
Another thing to add to this thread, and maybe someone can help me, does anyone have Panther mail that does not learn what is and what is not junk mail? I get the same message everyday almost and i say its junk everytime but mail still puts it in my inbox. Also, sometimes mail will make something brown like its junk and leave it in my inbox... WTF???

Justin

Cincojoe · Nov 8, 2003, 10:34 AM

I'm having the same issues with Mail asking for passwords over and over. Never happened to me in Jag, but when I installed Panther, it's happening often now. Maybe twice a day.

pixegenguy · Nov 8, 2003, 10:40 AM

This is the problem related to FileVault. I had the same issue. The only fix is to backup your data, format the HD, and reinstall Panther.

Cincojoe · Nov 8, 2003, 10:59 AM

My panther is on a clean install.

GDoering · Nov 8, 2003, 11:21 AM

I had the keychain problem and deleted the user/library/keychains folder and haven't had the proble since. You will have to save all of your passwords in keychain again but I don't get the multiple keychain pop ups everytime I use mail now.

stevesnj · Nov 8, 2003, 11:58 AM

Is there any way to select a default mail account? I have to manually switch my send from account every time i send mail and it is never the same when I try send mail.

I did a 'Zeroall data' install and still some other issues exist but all in all Panther runs MUCH better than Archive and Install from Jag.

Swift · Nov 8, 2003, 12:54 PM

About the Junk filter: the truth is, the junk mail purveyors are beginning to get around many Bayesian filters, the ones that check for "junk mail" language. I've found the number of things slipping through is increasing. One way they do it is by sending all-graphic messages; if I'm too hard on Viagra jpg files, then that weekly mail from MacMall also gets clobbered. There's no language there to filter. So Mail can't decide: insufficient data. Another thing junkmailers are doing is spelling "viagra", for instance, "v.iagra," which isn't on the suspicious list.

Panther has some additions to your junk mail definitions, too. Check out preferences. But the truth is, we need a strong federal law, and agreements to take out junk mailers with military force. Or we need an improved "sendmail" in Internet standards. Or both.

As it is now, a typical day will mean 30-40 messages I want to read, and anywhere up to a hundred or more in the Junk folder. Sigh.

scsiboy · Nov 8, 2003, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Mobile Mod:
Another thing to add to this thread, and maybe someone can help me, does anyone have Panther mail that does not learn what is and what is not junk mail? I get the same message everyday almost and i say its junk everytime but mail still puts it in my inbox. Also, sometimes mail will make something brown like its junk and leave it in my inbox... WTF???

Justin

This is a bug in Panther Mail. It only happens if you have no rules defined at all. A workaround is to create a rule that has no real purpose. The one I used is something like "If From: Contains asdfasdfasdfasdf then set background color to red". Junk foldering works again after that.

cpac · Nov 8, 2003, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by stevesnj:
Is there any way to select a default mail account? I have to manually switch my send from account every time i send mail and it is never the same when I try send mail.

Mail defaults to whatever address the currently selected email was sent to when you reply or create a new message.

That's not really a solution, but it will hopefully make things more predictable for you.

(some, like me, really like this feature too, since when I reply to law school people, the email comes from my law school account, when I reply to support threads etc, it comes from my .mac account, etc.)

dweebert · Nov 8, 2003, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Mobile Mod:
Another thing to add to this thread, and maybe someone can help me, does anyone have Panther mail that does not learn what is and what is not junk mail? I get the same message everyday almost and i say its junk everytime but mail still puts it in my inbox. Also, sometimes mail will make something brown like its junk and leave it in my inbox... WTF???

What Apple did in Panther mail was to move the Junk Mail filtering to occur *after* all of your other rules, rather than *before*. If any of your rules match an incoming piece of Junk Mail, and the action on that rule is "Stop Evaluating Rules", your "junk" rule is never called.

The solution is to clean up any rules that are inadvertently stopping the junk mail filter from being processed. I had virtually no SPAM being detected, but after cleaning up my rules, I now have even better junk mail filtering than I had in Jag. (And that's *after* I hit the "Reset" button in the Junk Mail preferences!)

Mohammed Atef · Nov 8, 2003, 08:26 PM

I have two pop and one imap in use with Mail, and each account has its own corresponding smtp config. Don't have issue #2 (or any other issues).

throatmonster · Nov 8, 2003, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by Mobile Mod:
Another thing to add to this thread, and maybe someone can help me, does anyone have Panther mail that does not learn what is and what is not junk mail?

I've found that I always have to put Mail back in "training" mode for it to remember more junk/not junk decisions I make. Once I turn it to automatic mode, it stops paying attention to any new junk determinations I make.

Can anyone confirm or refute this? I don't have any of the other problems noted in this thread, but mail refusing to keep learning about junk after I've put it in automatic mode is annoying.

ahenket · Nov 9, 2003, 04:41 AM

Although Panther Mail.app has a nicer front-end the back-end has been degraded it seems. Some of the probs I have since Panther:

- Total freeze of the app after sending via a Secure SMTP account. Wor-around when I forget this happens: Go to the ~/Library/Mail/Mailboxes folder and remove the message from the Outbox.mbox package. If I do not, I can't work with Mail anymore, because it hangs in sending

- If I where to send through another SMTP account, I get the Mail back as if I where spamming someone. Mail.app in 10.2 couldn't send at all through my Secure SMTP account, but at least offered to send it via my other accounts. None of that anymore.

Apple knowledgebase articles are no help at all. Importing the certificates etc. all does not help the situation

bonaccij · Nov 9, 2003, 08:48 AM

All you have to do to make the account default is drag the account you want as you default account (in the mail preferences) to the top of the list.

bonaccij · Nov 9, 2003, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by stevesnj:
Is there any way to select a default mail account? I have to manually switch my send from account every time i send mail and it is never the same when I try send mail.

I did a 'Zeroall data' install and still some other issues exist but all in all Panther runs MUCH better than Archive and Install from Jag.

All you have to do to make the account default is drag the account you want as you default account (in the mail preferences) to the top of the list

Vackerman · Nov 9, 2003, 11:57 AM

Same problem with Mail, two macs, one running 10.2.8 and the other Panther. Both Mail programs randomly tell me the servers have rejected my passwords to various mailboxes, one of which is a .mac account, the others on separate ISPs. Also, mail doesn't seem to always check both my accounts on one machine and all of the three on the other (5 different email accounts).

I just downloaded and ran the Keychain First Aid utility.... I'll see if that works.

milhouse · Nov 9, 2003, 01:54 PM

I was having problems with Mail crashing until I rebuilt all of my mailboxes (did an import of Entourage emails and there were thousands of messages).

All has been well so far.

No problems connecting save my ISP's (Comcast) issues with their mail server.

My $0.02

Macpilot · Nov 9, 2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by pixegenguy:
This is the problem related to FileVault. I had the same issue. The only fix is to backup your data, format the HD, and reinstall Panther.

I don't use FileVault.

I have reduced my frequent (15 minutes) checking of email and have not experienced the rejected password problem. We shall see if my luck lasts.

As far as the send mail smtp problems, I have gone into the Keychain and cleaned up. Also, the new Mail has nice applescripts built in to manage smtp servers.

So far, so good, for the last 48 hours of so.

devmage · Nov 9, 2003, 02:49 PM

I thought I'd post my recent mail.app problem in case anyone else runs into it.

Mail started crashing when ever I marked a message as junk. I didn't really notice at the time but it also wasn't marking anything as Junk. I ended up having to reset the junk mail database to fix it, I also had removed manually the junk mail folders before I had done that.

Very anoying none the less.

willblake · Nov 9, 2003, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Mobile Mod:
Another thing to add to this thread, and maybe someone can help me, does anyone have Panther mail that does not learn what is and what is not junk mail? I get the same message everyday almost and i say its junk everytime but mail still puts it in my inbox. Also, sometimes mail will make something brown like its junk and leave it in my inbox... WTF???

Justin

Try turning junk filtering off, quit mail, restart mail, and then turn junk filtering back on. This worked for me to get junk filtering to start working properly again.

rspress · Nov 10, 2003, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by Macpilot:
Well, it seems that the two problems I had with Jaguar Mail have not been fixed in Panther:

#1 Mail keeps prompting to enter passwords that are already in the Mail Prefs, and then those passwords (correct passwords) are rejected. This has never happened with ANY other Mail apps I have used under OS X, which include Entourage, Gyazmail, and Eudora.

#2 Mail tells me the server failed to deliver the mail and uses the wrong server.

When is Apple going to fix this issue once and for all?

This is on a clean install of Panther. One .mac account and two Roadrunner accounts set up in Mail prefs.

Never had these problems in Jaguar and I did a plain vanilla upgrade to panther and still do not have these problems.

msc1974 · Nov 10, 2003, 03:26 AM

Sorry everyone... I've not got a single problem with either Mail or Panther. Sorry. Infact... Panther Mail now links to websites from within an email... It never did that under Jaguar.

I just remembered something...I have got a problem with Panther... FontBook hates large amounts of fonts... I work in a studio and we have loads of fonts (3500+) and I have tried to load them in small and large amounts, but with no luck. It just crashes or doesn't load them all or in the right order. eg. A fonts, B fonts, C fonts, D...

Just my 2 cents!

iBook, 600MHz, 384Mb Ram, 14.1"

cpac · Nov 10, 2003, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by msc1974:
Panther Mail now links to websites from within an email... It never did that under Jaguar.

yes it did.

MrBS · Nov 10, 2003, 05:34 PM

Mail is pretty retarded all in all. It seems like it should be a good program, it's just really flakey, and in Panther it's actually been crashing on me.

It has a terrible time figuring out what needs to be downloaded from the server, constantly has the wrong number of (NEW) message counts next to various folders and has terrible keyboard navigation.

And it's new 'Threading' doesn't actually do threading, it just groups by subject. So if you send out an email with a generic subject like Hey or Yo or anything like that, then a couple weeks later you use the same subject line for some thing completely unrelated to a completely different person it will group them in the same thread.

They screwed up the junk mail filtering (by putting it after all your rules, so 'stop evaluating rules' actually means 'stop evaluating rules AND message is not junk'. </rant>

~BS

Chinasaur · Nov 10, 2003, 06:33 PM

I get the random mail password thing...it's my ISP...not Mail.

I've seen similar things on other OS's with other mail proggies.

bbob · Nov 10, 2003, 07:40 PM

Panther's Mail.app is working flawlessly so far for me. Clean install of Panther, first generation Tibook, migrated to this machine last week from a Win2000 laptop with over 400MB of mail in mbox format, which had been converted from Outlook a few months earlier. After cleanup and a week's worth of new messages, about 300MB remains. Has been rock solid, even with about 15 tasks running at the same time while I was moving stuff around, importing mboxes etc. Just gets a little slow

Never had any problems under Jaguar either, Mail.app was just a tad too slow on the iMac I've been using so before I got the Tibook.

Checking seven accounts, four POP3, three IMAP on two different servers, all at the same time, with an average mail volume of about 300 messages a day. No problems with authentication or keychain. Rules work like a charm for all the mailinglists I'm on. Had the Junk Mail filter chew through an archive of about 5000 spam messages, filters out most of the stuff now and puts it in a separate mailbox for later review. So far, no false positives.

So, running a stable Mail.app should be possible, not sure what could be causing the problems reported here though... Hopefully 10.3.1 will fix some of it. Just installed the update, about to reboot after a week of solid operation; Panther gets two thumbs up from me...

Powaqqatsi · Nov 10, 2003, 08:10 PM

It still sends the ****ing resource forks (or whatever that extra file is) along with the normal files in the attachements !!

I tought this was supposed to be fixed ? I had this a few day ago. I'll try and mail something else to another PC and see what happens.

Thomas Matta · Dec 9, 2003, 12:57 AM

Here is my Panther/Mail issue:

Since I installed Panther on my G4 AGP (not a clean install, FYI) MAIL has not worked. Actually, it worked for a few days, then began kacking and freezing every time I tied to check my mail.

(I've been forced to used webmail for the last several days - yikes!)

Is there a way to (re) install ONLY Mail from the install discs? I'm hoping this would cure my problem, if I could only figure out a way to try it.

Looking forward to your advice and help...

Tom

Jonesy · Dec 9, 2003, 06:32 AM

I have suffered from the POP3 account password refusal in OS 10.2. and 10.3. It only occurs with that account not in the 2 IMAP accounts Mail checks automatically. It does happen very often, sometimes as soon as I have typed in my password again. I do not use FileVault and it occurs on both computers I own when checking this account, even from work on a fast university connection.

I don't know whether the problem is due to Mail itself or due to the PC orientated, useless morons at BTopenworld. I have a feeling they would have fixed it if this happened in PC Outlook express so there is some issue with Mail here, although the underlying fault may be with my ISP.

I also see the "Cannot deliver message on port 25" message but only when I use my work server. It is a wireless network with no closed ports but I cannot send any mail on any accounts. Mail can retrieve mail from all mailboxes but cannot send anything successfully. I see no reason why it doesn't work and I have given up with it. I'm having to use WebMail while I'm at work.

I would like both issues cleared up. Although they are not seen by everyone I do think Mail has some issues in both cases.

JKT · Dec 9, 2003, 07:58 AM

FWIW, in Panther, Keychain First Aid is now a part of the Keychain Access application:

philm · Dec 9, 2003, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
It still sends the ****ing resource forks (or whatever that extra file is) along with the normal files in the attachements !!

I tought this was supposed to be fixed ? I had this a few day ago. I'll try and mail something else to another PC and see what happens.

Have you got 'Send Windows Friendly Attachments' selected under Edit/Attachments?

Thomas Matta · Dec 11, 2003, 12:30 AM

Update:

I erased my HD and reinstalled Panther - but MAIL still freezes when I try to check or send my email.

I am at wit's end - any ideas?

Tom

bmyers2 · 01:46 PM

I just noticed that when I am viewing email folders On My Mac and click the little arrow to view/display whatever my previous reply was, I get an error,

"Error Mail was unable to find your response to the message "RE: xyz". You may have deleted the message or moved it out of your Sent Messages folder."

Is this a known issue or user error? It works fine for replies in my In box (.Mac and Comcast).

Also, as far as the discussion regarding being prompted for a password all the time... I have been able to create this issue on a consistent basis - not sure if it helps explain the problem or not but I have my G5 and XP box sitting next to each other. When I have Outlook open on the pc and Mail open on my Mac, of which both are set to check email every minute, within a few minutes, both machines will begin to prompt for a password - this isn't for .Mac email but my ISP email only.

fortepianissimo · Dec 24, 2003, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Swift:
About the Junk filter: the truth is, the junk mail purveyors are beginning to get around many Bayesian filters, the ones that check for "junk mail" language. I've found the number of things slipping through is increasing. One way they do it is by sending all-graphic messages; if I'm too hard on Viagra jpg files, then that weekly mail from MacMall also gets clobbered. There's no language there to filter. So Mail can't decide: insufficient data. Another thing junkmailers are doing is spelling "viagra", for instance, "v.iagra," which isn't on the suspicious list.

Panther has some additions to your junk mail definitions, too. Check out preferences. But the truth is, we need a strong federal law, and agreements to take out junk mailers with military force. Or we need an improved "sendmail" in Internet standards. Or both.

As it is now, a typical day will mean 30-40 messages I want to read, and anywhere up to a hundred or more in the Junk folder. Sigh.

Check this out: it's a little app attached to Mail.app's rules, and it does regular expression matching/IP-blacklists querying/what not.

lpb2h · Jan 14, 2004, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by stevesnj:
Is there any way to select a default mail account? I have to manually switch my send from account every time i send mail and it is never the same when I try send mail.

Apparently not. There's a script below, but you'd have to hotkey it for it to be useful.
Replace <account name> with your account name and <email address> (where name is as known to Mail.app).

I've also taken to using shift tab to alter the mail account (in Jag).

tell application "Mail"
set newMessage to make new outgoing message
set msgSender to ("<accountName>")
set the sender of newMessage to msgSender
tell newMessage
set visible to true
end tell
activate
end tell

tdvorak · Jan 14, 2004, 04:40 PM

Mail doesn't work for me either. It won't log on to either of my accounts and it doesn't quit, I always have to force quit!
This is on a brand new PowerBook, delivered last Wednesday. I was attending MacWorld and all they could tell me was that "it is a known issue". WTF!!!!
I switched to Entourage temporarily, and Mail still launces on my old PB and iMac.

alex720l · Jan 15, 2004, 12:44 AM

I suddenly can't send mail in Panther. Get a message saying can't send message, verify your server settings. When I change the server to the correct one (even though the correct one was already chosen in preferences) and open the message from the out box, the send to address has an extra character added to it (what looks like a capital A with a circle on top.) I then get the same message when trying to send the message again. If I try again, the send to address has TWO of these symbols added.
I tried repairing disc permissions. No luck.
I even deleted ALL my other server settings from the list and just left the one I need to use. No luck.
I have applecare and plan on calling tomorrow.
Can't see how this is related but this seems to have started after I unplugged my ipod without unmounting it after the computer went to sleep. After I opened the computer (ti PB) I got the message that I was supposed to unmount before unplugging. Can't see how that may have caused this but there it is........

Neo.cmg · Jan 15, 2004, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by beijinger:
I've never heard of this behavior before...

Absolutely, have it monitered closely and each time its only one or the other of the email boxes. Ugh! really frustrating. [/B][/QUOTE]

You just might want to double-check that for each extra account that you've added you have checked the box in each respective account's preferences that says something to the effect of "Include When Checking For New Mail"

I'm sure you wouldn't be posting on a public forum if something this simple had gone unnoticed, but just maybe something altered this setting.

Neo.cmg

Neo.cmg · Jan 15, 2004, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by bmyers2:
I just noticed that when I am viewing email folders On My Mac and click the little arrow to view/display whatever my previous reply was, I get an error,

"Error Mail was unable to find your response to the message "RE: xyz". You may have deleted the message or moved it out of your Sent Messages folder."

Is this a known issue or user error? It works fine for replies in my In box (.Mac and Comcast).

Also, as far as the discussion regarding being prompted for a password all the time... I have been able to create this issue on a consistent basis - not sure if it helps explain the problem or not but I have my G5 and XP box sitting next to each other. When I have Outlook open on the pc and Mail open on my Mac, of which both are set to check email every minute, within a few minutes, both machines will begin to prompt for a password - this isn't for .Mac email but my ISP email only.

Your problem is simply due to the fact that you have two separate machines logging into your ISP's server simultaneously, or within proximity of each other. While one is logged in, or in this process, the other is doing the same. Your ISP probably does not allow one person to be logged in twice, so it will deny your login, and your mail application(s) will translate this into a failed login and prompt you to re-enter your password. Turn off automatic checking on one machine, and I think you will find that this problem disappears.

Neo.cmg