[Jordan]

Have done a search but can't seem to find an answer to this.

I have convinced my father that rather than buy a new notebook to get himself a PowerBook. He's been a PC user all his life and is a little set in his ways. It would be a great help if I were able to show him what to do or sometimes do things for him. Problem is that I livein Melbourne and he lives in Brisbane. It's over 2 hours flight between the two. (Although he did fly down when he first got it for a one night lesson...)

Anyway, I was wondering if I could use ARD to control his Mac and show him what to do. He has already worked out iChat but there is a lot more to teach him and it would be easier if I could "see" his screen sometime.

Someone told me that ARD couldn't be used over the internet as ISP's block it. Not sure if that is true.

So before I invest $399 in ARD I wanted to confirm it would do the job. Of course, if you know something that would do it better (and/or cheaper) then that would be good too.

Thanks in advance,

Jordan

[cybergoober]

Well, his router (if he has one) would have to be configured to forward the proper ports to his machine.
See:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106439

If all you would want to do is observe and control his Mac you may be better off with a (free) VNC server/client setup.

For the server side (his Mac): OSXvnc

For you: Chicken of the VNC

[philm]

I use ARD to do this with my Dad. The only major issue which you need to consider is that he likely has a dynamic IP address which you need to know before you connect to him. The best method of doing this is through one of the web sites which offer this service. I use http://www.no-ip.com which works well and is free.

In his 'sharing' preferences on his Mac, he needs to allow access via ARD and assign the various levels of access also.

Just think, in years to come, our kids will need to do this with us for some technology. In my case I am talking about 30 years time - at about the time of Windows Longhorn and G5 PowerPC chips which can be used in laptops.

[DarwinX]

MacOSXhints to the rescue: http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...y=apple+remote

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by DarwinX

MacOSXhints to the rescue: http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...y=apple+remote

Thanks everyone...

DarwinX - that Hint looks good. (and free too!)

There are a few questions I have on this hint though... Let me see if I understand the process though...

Upfront Tasks (once only)

1. Enable ARD service and set Access Privileges for Dad's PB
2. Enable remote login and create a dummy user account (with no privileges) on my machine
3. Create DSA public-private key on Dad's PB (copy key to my machine)
4. Install Chicken of the VNC
5. Set up a dynamic DNS (don't think I need this as I have a static IP address - correct???)
6. Create Saved Terminal File of ssh command (save it on Dad's PB - correct???)
7. Open up SSH on my firewall

Connection tasks (each time)

1. Dad double clicks on saved terminal file (probably called "Jordan Help Me")
2. I start up Chicken of the VNC
3. Type in localhost and click connect
4. Solve problems on a par with world hunger and global warming (at least in his eyes!)

So if someone could clear up 3 things. The two queries in 5. and 6. plus the following...

Where do I find Dad's public-private key???

Thanks again for any help...

Regards,

Jordan

[DarwinX]

Jordan,

I have not yet tried this procedure out but I do believe that you DO NOT need to do the Dynamic DNS if you have a static IP address. Also, the terminal file would as you stated be saved to your Dad's Powerbook.

I am unsure about the public/private key portion. Best of luck and keep us posted on how it goes and if there is anything you can add to those directions.

I hope to also set this up as soon as my parents get a newer Mac.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by DarwinX

Jordan,

I have not yet tried this procedure out but I do believe that you DO NOT need to do the Dynamic DNS if you have a static IP address. I hope to also set this up as soon as my parents get a newer Mac.

Okay if I don't need to use the Dynamic DNS can someone tell me what the new shell command will be. The old one (according to the article is)

ssh [email protected] -R 5900:127.0.0.1:5900

Assume I create an account on my machine called dummy and assuming my static IP address is 1.2.3.4 would the new command be:

ssh [email protected] -R 5900:127.0.0.1:5900

Not sure what all the numbers are after the -R assume they are ports (5700) and internal IP address of the machine (127.0.0.1).

Appreciate all responses here. Will post my final solution once I get it working. Plan on testing it tonight...

Thanks,

Jordan

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by DarwinX

I am unsure about the public/private key portion. Best of luck and keep us posted on how it goes and if there is anything you can add to those directions.

Actually, I've become a bit stuck. Can anyone assist with the public private key thingy?

I have worked out how to generate the key and it creates two files in the home directory called "my_key" and "my_key.pub". The instructions say to copy the public key to the ~/.ssh/authorized_keys2 file. I can't find that file anyway. Can someone advise where I am supposed to copy this on my computer???

Thanks,

Jordan

[chezpaul]

Man, I got interested but then that just looked too damn complicated for just taking control of your dad's Mac.

I need to do the same with my mom's mac and I use Timbuktu. It works like a charm and I don't have to click anything else... Just connect. ;-)

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by chezpaul

Man, I got interested but then that just looked too damn complicated for just taking control of your dad's Mac.

If I can get the answers to the couple of questions above then I think it really shouldn't be that complicated. Am keeping a detailed list of everything I'm doing (plus screen shots) and although it's a little bit of a pain to do the one time setup, it shouldn't be too bad and it is one time only.

Jordan

[Mithras]

Originally Posted by Jordan

Actually, I've become a bit stuck. Can anyone assist with the public private key thingy?

I have worked out how to generate the key and it creates two files in the home directory called "my_key" and "my_key.pub". The instructions say to copy the public key to the ~/.ssh/authorized_keys2 file. I can't find that file anyway. Can someone advise where I am supposed to copy this on my computer???

Thanks,

Jordan

First of all, note that you can do this without all the SSH stuff if you want. Yes, it's more secure to do it with SSH tunneling; but for occasional use or a one-time deal, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

In that case, the instructions boil down to
1. tell Dad to turn on the VNC client in System Preferences.
2. punch a hole in Dad's firewall (assuming he has one); either by opening port 5900 in his Mac's software firewall, or by doing the appropriate thing if he has a broadband router.
3. Figure out Dad's IP address; easiest way is to tell him to visit http://www.whatismyip.com.
4. You fire up Chicken of the VNC and connect to his Mac.

---
now, if you want to do this with the secure SSH tunneling:

The authorized_keys2 file won't exist until you create it. I'm surprised you have "my_key" and "my_key.pub", though. My usual technique is to type
ssh-keygen -t dsa
then press return to accept all of the default prompts. ssh expects to find them in ~/.ssh/id_dsa and ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub, so I'd put them there unless you have a special reason to do otherwise. This would be done on Dad's machine.

Then, transfer the public key to your machine by doing this:
* first, create the ~/.ssh folder.
* then, either have Dad type, or log in to his machine via SSH and do:
scp ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub [email protected]:~/.ssh/authorized_keys2

[holderlin]

I get the message "incompatible version" when I use cotvn. I'm trying to connect to my mother's mini. She has remote login and apple remote desktop enabled.

[smeger]

Originally Posted by holderlin

I get the message "incompatible version" when I use cotvn. I'm trying to connect to my mother's mini. She has remote login and apple remote desktop enabled.

Here ya go.

[dirtbikephil]

I keep getting this error when I open the Terminal file.

ssh: connect to host guest.gotDNS.com port 22: Operation timed out

Can anyone please help me with this?

[kent m]

Hi,

I haven't read all of the responses so pardon me if some of these have been covered.

ARD is an EXCELLENT way to keep yourself connected to and managing you father's machine. I've been doing this with my Grandfather for just over a year and have had no significant issues. I'm glad to hear someone else is considering it! There is no blocking of ISPs... not sure why someone would say that... maybe it's different in Australia - I'm using ARD between the USA and Canada and have never had a problem.

The one hitch will be obtaining his Ethernet Address, which you'll need in order to connect to his machine, and which will change if he's not set up to use a Static IP. This is managed quite well for me using a web based 'service' called "Whatismyip". (site is http://whatismyip.com/)

Basically an Applescript is installed on his computer that determines and communicates his IP address to a website address (of your choice). This can be set up to upload the IP address at time intervals of your choice. When you want to connect to his machine you check the website, obtain his current IP address and plug that into your ARD along with account and password info. As I said this has been working well for me for over a year.

I can send you the Applescript and details of the "Whatismyip" if you email me. It was set up by a friend of mine and would work on any osX machine with a few simple adjustments. My email is [email protected]

There is usually a lot of talk about "Chicken of the VNC" or some other free/cheaper apps on topics like this, but my advice - having tried a few of them - is to just stay away and use ARD. The hassle in setting up & maintaining them and the lack of stability just make ARD desktop the best solution, in my experience.

Anyway, to finish up - I love using ARD for this sort of thing. It's dead simple and solid. In fact, I've just logged on to my Grandfather's machine to check it out... :-). I recommend that you just spend the money and get ARD. The time saving and lack of hassle has been well worth it for me.

best regards and good luck,
Kent M

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by kent m

ARD is an EXCELLENT way to keep yourself connected to and managing you father's machine.
Anyway, to finish up - I love using ARD for this sort of thing. It's dead simple and solid. In fact, I've just logged on to my Grandfather's machine to check it out... :-). I recommend that you just spend the money and get ARD. The time saving and lack of hassle has been well worth it for me.

Kent,

Interested to hear your comments. I've been struggling a bit with getting Chicken to work. There have been some very friendly and helpful people on this site giving me advice but clearly I'm not as cluey as them as I just can't seem to get it.

Dad is overseas at the moment but when he comes back I might just try ARD with him. I just wish there was a trial version of it.

Kent - if you want to know your Grandfather's IP address install the following widget. It's a very easy way to find it out. Just get him to hit F12 and read the number to you....

Cheers,

Jordan

[kent m]

The thing I like about using the whatismyip.com is that I don't have to ask my Grandfather what his IP address is or have him click anything. He's still getting used to the machine and that's possibly a little beyond his ability at the moment, odd as it may sound for you or me, and it's better that the machine just quietly tells me what it's IP address is on it's own. There are some problems with this though - if the internet connection gets dropped, which happens occasionally, I can't get the address... Also whatismyip.com was recently bought by a hosting company in FLorida, and they seem like schmucks, but haven't broken anything yet... it's smooth.

I tried a bit to work with Chicken as well too, and had some help from a clever friend, but couldn't really get it working to a point where I could depend on it - - which is certainly a shortcoming of my own - I hear wonderful things from people about Chicken (a rep at a Mac Store even recommended I try it before purchasing ARD) - - but it just wasn't good for me because I wanted something very simple that worked well with the Mac system. Which is what I got with ARD. I love the direct graphic input. Again, send me a note if you have any specific questions about using it.

K

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by kent m

Again, send me a note if you have any specific questions about using it.

K

Kent - going to take you up on your offer of advice.

Dad is in the Phillipines right now and the infrastructure is a bit dodgy...

Anyway, so Mum is at home and was struggling with the concept of Smart Mailboxes. Thought I might try out ARD on her. So I get her IP address (through my method although may eventually change to yours....) But I can't get it to work...

Problem is that she is on Cable Internet that goes into an Airport Express that connects wirelessly to her computer.

So her external IP address is 1.2.3.4 but I guess her internal one is probably 10.0.0.1 or something like that.

Can I get to her through the Airport? I think this is the same problem I was having with Chicken...

At least it's a bit friendlier here and I can see that she is connected and that there really is a computer here. Just can't get to it it seems... Here's what I see.....



Any clues....

I think I have set it up correctly. Not sure though. I definitely got her to select the ARD settings in the Sharing Panel....

[kent m]

Hello,

I have a machine at home that I connect to over an Airport using ARD so know that it works - it is on a local network, though I think it ought to be the same thing - and that maybe the problem is getting the correct IP Address? Maybe try using this Dashboard Widget - "Network Sat" (http://code.hillrippers.ch/?soft=widget_NetworkStat) which gives both the Airport IP and the machine's IP:



But how are you connecting? I can never "Send a Message" either - it always fails - and haven't bothered to sort it out. If you click on the ARD icon that has the cursor with the radiating circles do you get a Graphic Display of the other machine? It looks like it's all set to work.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by kent m

Hello,

But how are you connecting? I can never "Send a Message" either - it always fails - and haven't bothered to sort it out. If you click on the ARD icon that has the cursor with the radiating circles do you get a Graphic Display of the other machine? It looks like it's all set to work.

I tried a number of ways to connect. Is there a log somewhere that tells me what is going wrong?

Which IP address do you think I should be using? I believe that it is the "real world" IP address not the Airport one. The problem is that this is the IP address of the Cable Modem. You then have to get from there through the Airport to the actual Mac itself.

I suspect it could be something around the port forwarding of the modem but not sure how that works or what is required....

[Gavin]

it sounds like you need to open a port up on the airport router.

Just to help clarify what is involved with debugging I'll bore the hell out of you with some background.

there should be only 3 steps to a VNC session.

1. The computer you are trying to connect to runs VNC server - all they have to do is run it.

2. You get the current IP address of the remote machine.\

3. You run Chicken of the VNC, a VNC client that logs into the remote computer. (using their user name and password)

That's basically it. You don't need ssh, or encryption, or keys. That's just making things harder for not much payoff.

To get the ip address you will log in to the person on the remote computer should go to http://www.whatismyip.com/ in a web browser, that will open a web page that lists his internet address. It will show:Your IP - 223.237.2.124 (for example) in big text. They tell you that number and you use it to log in to their machine.

You can automate this with a service like dyndns which give's your dad a domain name like dad.dyndns.org. You use that domain to log in instead of his current ip address, dyndns tracks his ip address for him. Don't try to set this up until you have everything else working.

There can be a couple of things that complicate the situation. Services on the internet each talk over various "ports". A port is like a radio or TV channel for ethernet. The web uses port 80, to send email you use port 25, etc. VNC has it's own port, usually 5900. When one computer talks to another it will connect on a particular port.

An open port can be a security issue. That is one way many windows computers get taken over. It's like having an open window into your house. That's where firewalls come in. A firewall is really just a set of rules that open and close the ports.

This is the key to making the connection work. There are several places in the chain between the remote computer and yours that may have closed the port you need to use. Your computer has a firewall, the remote computer has a firewall your dad's broadband router has a firewall and so does yours. On top of that some ISPs block various ports to try to cut down on spam or break ins.

Weather you are using VNC or ARD or Timbuctu (or even iChat or ssh) you still have to make sure the ports are open all the way down the pipe. A quick way to test is just turn off the firewalls (under system pref:sharing:firewall) on your computer and your dad's and see if that fixes it. Then you turn the firewall back on and open a hole for that port. Still in the firewall panel: click the "New..." button, choose VNC from the port name pop up.
Usually you don't need to open a hole for outbound traffic in your computer's firewall. Common things like printer sharing and file sharing are already set up in the firewall, and the system is smart enough to open the ports when you start the service. iChat and iiTunes add themselves when you first run them. For something like VNC you have to deal with it manually.

You probably also need to open that port in your router (airport). See the router's manual for how to do that - port numbers are 5900 - 5902 for VNC.

If your ISP is blocking the port you are S.O.L. Get a new ISP.

Having a router causes a second problem. The IP address you see from whatismyip.com is really for the airport router not your computer. You need the router to relay the VNC connection to you computer. This is called port forwarding. Again, check your router manual to set it up.

Hope this helps

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Gavin

it sounds like you need to open a port up on the airport router.
Hope this helps

Gavin - a very informative reply! Thanks a lot

I think all of this is pointing to a port, firewall or ISP problem.

Is there a simple way that I can troubleshoot this a bit better? Can I use something like the Network Utility to do a trace route?

I definitely have not done any port forwarding in my airport. Really am a little out of my depth here though. The other information provided has helped a lot but was a little vague in the areas that I now think the problem is.

Assume that I will use ARD (don't want to get too confused with that at VNC, Timbuktu, etc.)

I have an Airport Extreme on this end. Dad has an Airport Express on his end. He is attached to a cable modem, I'm attached to an ADSL modem. I have a static IP address. He doesn't but we both know how to get his "real" IP address.

So my questions are:

Which end do I need to do the port forwarding?
What ports do I need to forward?
Where do I forward them to?
The Airport Admin Utility has three things it asks for; Public Port, Private IP, Private Port. What are each of these in this particular example.
Can I test to see if my ISP is blocking the required ports. If it is. can I use another?

Appreciate any responses here...

TIA,

Jordan