[rhino_g3]

I am due to upgrade my rev. d iMac. I was originally thinking of getting a low end G4 tower so I could use it for games. That was before the new iMac came out with the new improved specs.

How would the new iMac perform as a gaming computer?

Looks as if Apple finally stuck a good graphics card in an iMac at last!

rhino_g3

[nonjo]

Between the G4 and the GForce, the iMac will be great...for a while. The same was true of my girlfriend's iMac DV SE with the ATI Rage 8MB chipset when I first got it. If the card can be swapped out for a 64 MB card in the future, then the new iMac is a machine a gamer can live with. But an iMac that can accept upgrades is not an iMac; by that I mean that it betrays the "simplicity" (read "planned obsolescence") of a consumer machine.


My 533 Mhz GeForce-equipped G4 screams along nicely when playing most games. Giants, though, has bullied my card around when things get busy, and newer games are only going to get more pixel-hungry.

[Rob van dam]

Cards not upgreadable it's soldered to motherboard

[Hobbit_Boy]

Macintosh and games...macs really just dont have the support of the software companies or the hardware to really be great game machines. The gforce 2MX is a nice improvment, but the GF3 as an option would have been a good idea. But what does it really matter? There are only a handfull of games that can even take advantage of a high-end graphics processor on the macintosh.

-Deus Ex (awesome game)
-UT
-Unreal
-Quake 3
-Diablo series

Those are IMO the best games out there for the Mac...if they were optimized for X and MP...they would all scream. Sadly, I have to turn to my console or "gaming PC" when i want real game preformance.

The GeForce2 MX is about 3 generation behinds at this point. Even sub-$500 PC's come with graphics cards substantially better than a 32Mb GeForce2 MX these days, which should tell you how pathetic (and overpriced) a gaming computer an iMac would make for.

That aside, Macs in general make for pathetic (and overpriced) gaming computers. How many games are there out for the Mac? Approximately seven? Compare that to the 900 gazillion games out for the PC, and the decision is a non-decision.

Haha!

[scottiB]

The "Intergrated Intel Graphics" on the $599 Dell and Gateway I found must be the cat's ass--it's got Maya 4 written all over it.

[lee vieira]

Originally posted by <wiggles>:
<STRONG>The GeForce2 MX is about 3 generation behinds at this point. Even sub-$500 PC's come with graphics cards substantially better than a 32Mb GeForce2 MX these days, which should tell you how pathetic (and overpriced) a gaming computer an iMac would make for. </STRONG>

Ummm...nope.

Most sub-$500 PCs (and even plenty in the $500-1000 range) come with cheap 'Intel Integrated 3D graphics' cards that completely suck ass(4MB of memory! Hahahaha!) and which are FAR weaker and slower than a 32MB nVidia GeForce 2MX.

Please know what you're talking about b4 posting. Thanks.

--lee

Originally posted by lee vieira:
<STRONG>
Most sub-$500 PCs (and even plenty in the $500-1000 range) come with cheap 'Intel Integrated 3D graphics' cards that completely suck ass</STRONG>

Well, you obviously have to have a SHRED of clue before you buy a PC.

Macheads obviously lack in the clue department.

It is very easy these days to put together a 1+ Ghz PC with 256Mb RAM, Radeon VE 64 Mb, and a 17 inch monitor, plus all the essentials including CDRW and DVD drive, for ~$500.

Radeon VE is easily overclocked to a full Radeon and absolutely smokes the pathetic GeForce2 MX.

[Rob van dam]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

Well, you obviously have to have a SHRED of clue before you buy a PC.

Macheads obviously lack in the clue department.

It is very easy these days to put together a 1+ Ghz PC with 256Mb RAM, Radeon VE 64 Mb, and a 17 inch monitor, plus all the essentials including CDRW and DVD drive, for ~$500.

Radeon VE is easily overclocked to a full Radeon and absolutely smokes the pathetic GeForce2 MX.</STRONG>

well good for u go play with youre toys

[lee vieira]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

Well, you obviously have to have a SHRED of clue before you buy a PC.

Macheads obviously lack in the clue department.

It is very easy these days to put together a 1+ Ghz PC with 256Mb RAM, Radeon VE 64 Mb, and a 17 inch monitor, plus all the essentials including CDRW and DVD drive, for ~$500.

Radeon VE is easily overclocked to a full Radeon and absolutely smokes the pathetic GeForce2 MX.</STRONG>

Ooh, woopee, I can put together some piece-of-crap peecee out of bargain basin crap parts and brag about spec-to-price ratio!!! Hey, isn't that what eMachines does?

You know, that company that makes peecess that blow up in a year and whose stock is trading at 98 cents a share? I'm not sure, but I think I could buy a controlling interest in it with next week's paycheck...LOL.

Look son, you aren't convincing anyone of anything. All you're doing is making PC owners look like immature morons.

Face it, if your PC was really all that, you wouldn't feel so insecure about it that you'd have to come to a Mac forum and troll.

I'm buying an iMac. I don't honestly give a crap WHAT you buy.

Now go get a life...if you can.

--lee

[JH]

Just a thought but why not scrap unregistered posting altogether?

[PeteWK]

Oh, I'm sure he can get a life. He has a good 70 or 80 years ahead of him.

It works like this, Junior. A BMW or Mercedes Benz isn't the fastest thing on the market. You could buy a 74 Vega, shoehorn a 454 Chevy into it, and brag like the 12 year old you are, that you daddy's car was faster than mine. But mine is a piece of art while your's would be a piece of.....well, you know.

PeteWK

[P]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

Well, you obviously have to have a SHRED of clue before you buy a PC.

Macheads obviously lack in the clue department.

It is very easy these days to put together a 1+ Ghz PC with 256Mb RAM, Radeon VE 64 Mb, and a 17 inch monitor, plus all the essentials including CDRW and DVD drive, for ~$500.

Radeon VE is easily overclocked to a full Radeon and absolutely smokes the pathetic GeForce2 MX.</STRONG>

OK, so I have a certain amount of clue about buying PCs. I'm upgrading my sisters old Aptiva with a new Mobo, CPU and graphics, so I've been checking out prices a bit:

Micro-ATX mobo (which is still a _lot_ larger than the iMac), Geforce2 MX/200, 1 GHz Duron and 256 RAM comes to almost $350 alone. You want to squeeze in a monitor, keyboard, mouse, decent HD, CD-RW and DVD in $150?

The Radeon you quote is no longer made, but let's say Radeon 7500 which has replaced it. According to Tom's hardware, it's about even with the Geforce2 MX boards (or Geforce2 MX Ti, or whatever). The advantage with the Geforce board is that it has better drivers. If you take a look at the specs, the new iMac has DDR RAM for the graphics - that's the same as a Geforce2 MX/400, which is only slightly behind the old Geforce 2 GTS boards:
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/index.html

I agree that you can squeeze up a better deal than the iMac by building it yourself on the PC side, but it will lack the finish of the iMac, and it won't be much better. The new iMac is actually a very good gaming machine.

[scottiB]

This &lt;wiggles&gt; dope was posting in the iBook forum in October trolling--he only comes out after product announcemments.

You gotta love Lee:

Look son, you aren't convincing anyone of anything. All you're doing is making PC owners look like immature morons.

That line has such a paternal tone, I FELT guilty for something I did as a teenager (20+ years ago).

[Eug]

The iMac will suck as a gaming machine. Yes, a sub-$1000 PC will run circles around it, and most $3000 G4 towers too.

Radeon VE is easily overclocked to a full Radeon and absolutely smokes the pathetic GeForce2 MX.

The Radeon VE is not a good video card for gaming. The VE is built for dual monitors and the gaming abilities are crippled to achieve this. You may be thinking of the Radeon LE which IS a good video card and on average is better than the GeForce2 MX when HyperZ is activated, but I haven't seen that card for sale in ages.

Most sub-$500 PCs (and even plenty in the $500-1000 range) come with cheap 'Intel Integrated 3D graphics' cards that completely suck ass(4MB of memory! Hahahaha!) and which are FAR weaker and slower than a 32MB nVidia GeForce 2MX.

Perhaps, but in terms of the Geforce2 MX one must remember that a Geforce2 MX on a G4 733 runs games MUCH slower than a 1 GHz AMD with the same card. So a Geforce 2 MX on a Mac is already at a disadvantage, not to mention the fact that you can build a pretty good 1.5 GHz Geforce 2 Pro (not the lowly MX) system for under US$1000.

I wouldn't try to build a real gaming machine for $500 though. It could be done, but it would suck at just about everything else.

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Eug ]

[xyber233]

An 800mhz g4 and a 32mb geforce2mx will be fine for most Apple gamers. It is a LOT better than that rage junk. Its on par with the towers....for now.

[Hobbit_Boy]

I'd saw the imac is great for everything BUT games. It'll run games decently, but if you think your going to be spending alot of time playing games on it, you might want to get a gamcube or somthing. I hear rogue leader is quite a hoot.

The GeForce2MX is a pretty *bla* card. There are GeForce2 Ultras and GeForce2 Pro cards out there. Not to mention a first AND second generation of GF3 cards...

Yeah, it CERTAINLY is a great upgrade from the rage, but it isnt by any means "cutting edge". I don't think apple ever ment for the imac line to be it's cutting edge computers...so that seems OK. What I have a problem with is the Powermacs being shipped with the GF2mx..thas just pathetic! I saw the option to get a GF3, why wouldnt anyone do that!!?? I'd give up food for 2 weeks to afford the better card!

Originally posted by Hobbit_Boy:
<STRONG>but if you think your going to be spending alot of time playing games on it, you might want to get a gamcube or somthing.</STRONG>

Why waste money on a Mac AND a console when a sub-$1000 PC will do both jobs (work and play) swimmingly well?

Are Macheads always looking to waste money?

What is this now business?

P.S. A computer is never a work of art. A computer is a box with circuits inside it and wires sticking out of it. It does not matter if the box is pink, translucent, egg-shaped or bubble gum flavored. A box with wires sticking out of it is, and will remain, a box with wires sticking out of it.


P.P.S. How many games are there available for the Mac? Three? Five? Maybe seven? The PC has approximately 900 gazillion games available.

[vmarks]

Wiggles, I'd ask why you're here, but it's somewhat pointless. You've already shown some measure of ignorance by taking a perfectly high quality motherboard out of an IBM aptiva and putting some taiwanese POS in there.

Why you'd ruin a perfectly good IBM, I'll never know- faster isn't better, stability is.

Anyways, this is the crux of the matter- you aren't convincing anyone of your position, just earning disrespect.

Cut it out. Please join us when you'll speak calmly and with well-reasoned points. Anything else is an irritant we can do without.

Thanks, your moderator,

Vmarks

[QUOTE]Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
[QB]

P.S. A computer is never a work of art. A computer is a box with circuits inside it and wires sticking out of it. It does not matter if the box is pink, translucent, egg-shaped or bubble gum flavored. A box with wires sticking out of it is, and will remain, a box with wires sticking out of it.

////

wigles -- This is why you fail.....

Originally posted by &lt;Joey2000&gt;:
<STRONG>wigles -- This is why you fail.....</STRONG>

I don't see why. Please explain.

[Jansar]

Well said, vmarks.

For you wiggles, he was being nice. Basically, he was trying to say, "I hate you. Get out of this forum. And if I knew you, I'd want to hurt you."

(something like that)

[rhino_g3]

Thanks to everyone, well almost everyone, for there input. When I say almost everyone I am not including Mr. wiggles. My question was about the new iMac and wiggles input was not helpful.

I am not interested in a PC. Gaming is not all I do on my computer. If so I would buy a Playstation2.

I would like a Mac that will perform well playing games. The iMac is cool looking and I may still get one but I like the idea of the PowerMac having an upgradeable video card.

I may wait and see what happens in March when the new PowerMacs are introduced.

rhino_g3

[Jansar]

Cool. And hopefully, a better graphics acclerator will be released for my Cube.

Originally posted by rhino_g3:
<STRONG>I am not interested in a PC. Gaming is not all I do on my computer. If so I would buy a Playstation2.</STRONG>

A Playstation is good for nothing but games.

A Mac is good for nothing. Except maybe Photoshop.

A PC is good for productivity software AND games. It has 900 billion applications and 900 gazillion games.

A PC is also half the price of a comparable Mac.

Why the hell are you not interested in a PC?

[vmarks]

Wiggles.

I will answer your points one by one. they aren't well reasonsed, but I'll refute them.

A playstation can run linux and be a fine internet browsing machine and webserver. Yes, Sony sells a linux distribution that makes the playstation a fully fledged computer, keyboard, mouse, software and all.
It's also a DVD player.

So you're mistaken on your first point.

A Mac is good for things other than Photoshop. Page layout is one example. Composition is another. Many magazine houses still use Macs from beginning of production to end, and quite successfully. Every productivity application or function that exists for Windows exists for Macintosh.

More importantly, Lotus Notes (which still kicks that baby, Exchange Server/Outlook everyday of the week and twice on Sunday) is going to be released for Mac OS X.

So, you're mistaken on your second point.

A PC has 900 billion productivity applications and 900 gazillion games. No one here really minds. It's nice that there are so many things to choose from for PCs, but having bought several of them, I personally get tired of buying expensive software that makes the system unstable, and crashes. I also get tired of buying games for the PC that get good reviews and turn out to be crap. One day, $50, the next day, $11 on the rack at OfficeDepot.

So, numbers, or cost, or even reviews by respected publications don't always mean much.

Again, you're mistaken about the importance of numbers.

A PC is half the price of a comparable Mac, you say. Not when you're buying good PC hardware. Eric S Raymond wrote an article on building a good PC from scratch. He spent 8000 dollars. That article was written two months ago. It goes to your understanding of the word 'comparable.' Listen, buying taiwanese motherboards and throwing in dirt cheap RAM that couldn't pass quality assurance if it tried just isn't comparable hardware. But you know what? To most of the people here, that's not even a consideration. Even if the Mac weren't comparable (and it is) it _doesn't_ matter. The Mac runs the software these people want to run. It's simple, that way. The Mac lets them run what they want to run, the way they want to run it.

So, again, you're mistaken, by presuming that quality hardware is available at half the price. It's not. Look at the high price boxes from IBM.

Your last question, "Why are you not interested in PCs?" - again, simple. I use PCs at work, at IBM. (IBM processors are in many Macs, by the way.) I run Windows, I run Linux. I use PCs everyday. I used to build PCs all the time for my friends, family members, I used to go into the parts stores and plan how to upgrade the mobo, pick the best affordable processor... I even used to overclock PCs and watercool the processor and AGP chipset on the motherboard. I simply have no interest in doing that anymore. I'm happy using a Macintosh.

So, I think I've answered your questions.

Do you realise that you're failing to convince anyone that your way is the right way?


Even if you don't agree with the users here who prefer Macintosh, you don't have to push for everyone to agree with you; It isn't working.

Now, quit it.

Your moderator,

Vmarks

[PHoynak]

Wiggles...please get a life. You help no one here by being a ass. Even the PC crowd must hate you....why else are you here?

[sirlexelot]

When it comes to games, if you're planning on playing on a Mac, you simply have to accept that you're a second-rate citizen. First there are no original Mac games these days (no, ambrosia's crappy little shareware app games don't count - I can't remember the last one that was actually fun), and second the Mac gaming hardware is lacking in all but the most expensive Macs (that is to say a G4 tower with a GeForce3 card).

That said, this iMac is certianly lined up to play most current available Mac games quite well I'm sure (except for Giants, but I'm convinced that the reason that game runs slowly is crappy programming and little else). Get Return to Castle Wolfenstein, you'll thank yourself - that game is so cool!!

I've long-since accepted this fact about Mac gaming, and so I recently built a PC just for games. Much as I hate to say that wiggles has said anything valid at all, he's right - I built a truly bad-ass game PC for under $500. 1.46ghz athlon, 80gig HD, Geforce2mx 400 (for now) w/ 64 megs of VRAM, 256 megs of DDR RAM, on-board ethernet and dolby digital sound, etc etc. (All quality components too, no cheapy crap - seagate HD, crucial RAM, etc). Granted, I already had a monitor, but it's not like that suddenly skyrockets the price.

ANYWAY, my point is if you're seriously interested in computer games, yet you realize that the Mac IS the superior platform in terms of OS, stability, and overall quality experience, then do what I did - get a Mac for 95% of what you do, and then build a PC for games. It's a great setup!

[Paco500]

Quoted from a wise man in the iMac forum:

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE WIGGLES!

Paco

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

A Playstation is good for nothing but games.

A Mac is good for nothing. Except maybe Photoshop.

A PC is good for productivity software AND games. It has 900 billion applications and 900 gazillion games.

A PC is also half the price of a comparable Mac.

Why the hell are you not interested in a PC?</STRONG>

Oh, I almost forgot...

PCs are GREAT...for me to POOP on!

And I obviously envy everyone their Macs...why else do I hang out here 24-7 like the little biatch that I am?

Thanks for your time.

Btw, I am obviously not a fan of the ladies. Women scare me, but Michael Jackson sure doesn't.

[xyber233]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>


Oh, I almost forgot...

PCs are GREAT...for me to POOP on!

And I obviously envy everyone their Macs...why else do I hang out here 24-7 like the little biatch that I am?

Thanks for your time.

Btw, I am obviously not a fan of the ladies. Women scare me, but Michael Jackson sure doesn't.</STRONG>

Well said wiggles .

[Nephron]

Hi gang,

The original question was whether or not a new iMac was a good gaming machine. The new iMac will be a good ... but not great gaming machine. Photo ... DV .... DVD, this is why I am buying one. My TiBook is good enough for most of the games I like (Alpha Centauri, Civ, etc). I have lots of access to PCs, but if I were more into action games I would go the console route (probably Playstation 2), rather than soup up the PC. Sitting on the couch in front of the TV with the game's sound pounding through the stereo would be more satisfying to me than huddling in the office over a PC.

As they say, the right tool for the right job.

Cheers

[SpeedRacer]

Just a little perspective here...

• The GFMX2 is not the best card on the Windows market, but it's mid-range for the Mac and a lot better for gaming than the horrendously out-dated Rage128 or earlier Macs.
• According to all of the hardware review sites i looked at before buying my Cube, the Radeon offered better DVD and 2D acceleration than the MX2, but the MX2 had better 3D/gaming. Both cards offered anywhere ~2x the FPS in many games than the Rage128.
• The Radeon running in my (slower) 500mHz Cube plays every game i've purchased and played for my Mac at full resolution (1024x768), full depth (32bit), and full effects - this includes UT, Q3A, Red Faction, AvP, Oni, and THPS. So while the MX2 may seem out-dated in WinWorld, it's only to say that there is 2 other cards (the GF3 and - now - R8500) that is better in MacWorld - hardly enough to start calling it a POS.
• If you want gaming-based upgradeability on a Mac, you need to suck it up and buy a G4 Tower 1-2 months from now when they come out with a new, over-priced dual-CPU 1+gHz box.
• If you want the best overall gaming potential (as others said) spend 1/3 what you would on a Mac and custom-config yourself an AMD-based box with one of the dozen or so video cards available to it.

Honestly though, i love action, 1st person games and find running 500mHz and a Radeon or MX2 just fine.

Speed

Originally posted by Nephron:
<STRONG>I have lots of access to PCs, but if I were more into action games I would go the console route (probably Playstation 2), rather than soup up the PC. ..... As they say, the right tool for the right job.</STRONG>

The right tool for gaming is the PC.

There are more games for the PC than the PS2, the XBox, the Game Cube, the Dreamcast, and the Mac, COMBINED.

You will not find such an extensive library of games in any and every genre on any other platform.

[lee vieira]

This discussion still going on? Yawn.

--lee

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: lee vieira ]

[mrtaber]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

Why waste money on a Mac AND a console when a sub-$1000 PC will do both jobs (work and play) swimmingly well?

Are Macheads always looking to waste money?

What is this now business?

P.S. A computer is never a work of art. A computer is a box with circuits inside it and wires sticking out of it. It does not matter if the box is pink, translucent, egg-shaped or bubble gum flavored. A box with wires sticking out of it is, and will remain, a box with wires sticking out of it.


P.P.S. How many games are there available for the Mac? Three? Five? Maybe seven? The PC has approximately 900 gazillion games available.</STRONG>

Answer to question #1: I (I can't speak for anyone else) dont' want to play games sitting in front of a PC! I prefer to chill in my living room playing on a nice-sized television with my surround-sound system. To each, his/her own. So, I play on a console.

Answer to question #2: No, Mac users believe they get value for their money--meaning, they pay for what's important to them.

Answer to statement #3: (What is this now business?) I'm not sure what that even means.

Answer to your asinine P.S.: Lots of things are art--ever heard of industrial design? Everything from Eames chairs to Porsche Boxsters and Audi TT's to a Kuhn Rikon can opener to some of the great stuff Michael Graves does for Target. Why does life have to be ugly? There's enough of that around. And some of us are willing to pay extra for it.

A Porsche Boxster is more than a metal can with an engine and four wheels; an Eames chair is more than some leather, wood, and steel. And a Macintosh is more than a bunch of wires in a box; for that matter, so is the Sony Vaio and the IBM computer you're so enamored of.

Anyway, 'nuff said. You are the weakest link. Goodbye!

MarkT

[mitchell_pgh]

Wiggles is just Troll Bate� 100%

The new iMac will be fine for a while. Remember, most people won't upgrade their video cards... the one in it is fine...

[mrtaber]

Yeah, I blew it and responded to him, in effect giving him (her?) just want s/he wants... bad, bad Mark! :o

MarkT

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

The right tool for gaming is the PC.

</STRONG>

I apologize; what I meant to say is that I am a tool, not that right tool is a PC(it never is).

Thank you for allowing me to clarify that.

Originally posted by rhino_g3:
<STRONG>I am due to upgrade my rev. d iMac. I was originally thinking of getting a low end G4 tower so I could use it for games. That was before the new iMac came out with the new improved specs.

How would the new iMac perform as a gaming computer?

Looks as if Apple finally stuck a good graphics card in an iMac at last!

rhino_g3</STRONG>

Everything is relative. The new iMac will light years ahead of the older iMacs in terms of game performance. Of course, that isn't saying much. The new iMac will be able to play all of the current games just fine. Just keep in mind that you can't upgrade the video card or the processor. You might be better off waiting to see what the new low end for the Pro line will be. I expect it to be updated in February at Seybold. Of course, you never know.

It also depends on what your demands are. If you play at lower resolutions, there isn't a big difference between the Geforce2mx and a Geforce3. The higher fill rates only pay off at higher resolutions. That's certainly not the only benefit of a Geforce 3, but for now that's the majority of the benefit.

Keep in mind, that nVidia's Rave drivers are generally poor in performance. This is only a big deal if you plan on playing lot's of older games. Going forward, OpenGL and Mac OS X are the future - nVidia does well there.

As for Trolls like &lt;wiggle&gt;, anyone that's made comments that ignorant doesn't even deserve a reply. Really, 7 games?

Steve

[xyber233]

I can't wait to see the performance results on the new iMac. I want to see if the AGP 2x affects anything. The comparison between the iMac 800mhz and the QS 733 should be interesting.

I am such a little prick!

[mitchell_pgh]

OK Mac enthusiasts, please skip to part B...

---------------------------- PART A ----------------------------

Wiggles shut the F@#$ up you little b|+ch. Get the F@#$ out of this forum if you're going to post incoherent pro-M$ propaganda like a retarded Mongoloid. If you want attention, do us all a little favor and drop dead wana be punk. Is this how you get off, by writing in forums that you don't have a clue about?! Obviously you don't have a life if you post in these forums you poor excuse for a troll dropping. You and your NetVista SUCK! Most Mac people don't play games ALL DAY LONG like you do. Grow up. I'm tired of you wasting my and everyone else's time with your endless "Why don't you buy a PC" bulls#$%! It just makes me hate you and PC's all that much more. Grow up you 11 year old IT baby. It's funny that you have to hide behind an anonymous account like the coward you are. Why don't you just go and download some more porn or play with your Pokemon cards in the back of your trailer with your NetVista.

---------------------------- PART B ----------------------------
Let's just see how low we could build a iMac like PC for...
(This is going against everything i believe in, but) Note: These prices are from Price Watch so they are basement pricing from some seriously shady places.
$14 - ATX + Power (crap PC case)
$44 - EDO 256MB 50ns
$84�- Duron 700 with cpu, fan (Like this is a G4 )
$267�- TFT 15in
$14 - Firewire Card
$14 - USB Card
$36 �-� GeForce2 MX200 32MB
$450 - DVD-R
$10 - Speakers
$20 - Keyboard + Mouse
$86 - Hard Drive 60 MB

There is about a grand just in PC parts alone! And that's all 2nd rate clone crap that will be all over your living room floor (good luck)! There is nothing like a Apple Pro keyboard and mouse. We also get great software with our computer (We don't get Office, but AppleWorks isn't bad) iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD, a few games, etc. Apple has a good reputation when it comes to hardwear. The G4 isn't a Duron 700 (thank God). Oppps, I forgot a few bucks on the OS... Amazing how the price looks now... Opps, cables... opps, tech support... opps, (I could go on and on)

As for games... Yah, the video card isn't the best thing (boy would I love a ATI 8500, but it's not going to happen. The new iMac's video card is fine. Much better then the old ones and we should see support for it as well.

[macanonymous]

Get a PS2 or xBox (sorry, but Halo and Fever rock!)

[mike one]

i think the new imac is going to be fine for gaming.
i think it'll more than handle anything out there and anything that comes down the pipe in the next 1-2 years.
no you won't be playing at 100+fps, but you will be playing a decent fps rates and the graphics will look pretty at 1024.

halo, oni, UT, Q3, RTCW, BGII, DII, Alice, Deus Ex, etc. will all play as good as anyone NEEDS them to play.

Originally posted by sirlexelot:
<STRONG>When it comes to games, if you're planning on playing on a Mac, you simply have to accept that you're a second-rate citizen. First there are no original Mac games these days (no, ambrosia's crappy little shareware app games don't count - I can't remember the last one that was actually fun)</STRONG>

That's funny, but I think the big splashy shoot-em-ups are boring and repetitive. I find Ambrosia's games much more fun. But, of course, to each his own.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by Hobbit_Boy:
<STRONG>The GeForce2MX is a pretty *bla* card. There are GeForce2 Ultras and GeForce2 Pro cards out there. Not to mention a first AND second generation of GF3 cards...</STRONG>

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about Bud. Have you ever even owned a GeForce 2MX? I have used the GF2MX as my graphics cad in my "Gaming Machine PC" for almost 6 months. I have never had a problem with it. My FPS are more than playable.

System;

AMD Duron 800MHz
256MB of PC-100 RAM
GeForce 2 MX 32MB DDR

[Average of about 100FPS in Unreal @ 1024x768 - 32Bit]
[Average of about 70FPS in Quake 3 @ 1024x768 - 32Bit]

Almost every game I have ever played on this rig runs extremely well. Just because there is something better available doesnt mean that the MX sucks. Please try to learn something before you go spouting off some crazy bullsh*t.

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: PowerMacMan ]

[Rob van dam]

Originally posted by xyber233:
<STRONG>I can't wait to see the performance results on the new iMac. I want to see if the AGP 2x affects anything. The comparison between the iMac 800mhz and the QS 733 should be interesting.</STRONG>

Is the imac still at agp 2x.

Jeez u would thought by know they would of at least given us agp 4x.

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
<STRONG>
Just because there is something better available doesnt mean that the MX sucks.</STRONG>

In the world of modern computers, it does.

Of course, when Apple's newest machine uses a graphics card that is 3 generations behind, you tend to get denials like yours.

This is of course very funny in a very tragic sort of way.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

In the world of modern computers, it does.

Of course, when Apple's newest machine uses a graphics card that is 3 generations behind, you tend to get denials like yours.

This is of course very funny in a very tragic sort of way.</STRONG>

Wiggles you tosser. Read the mail, the guy owns and runs a PC as his gaming machine.