[ballison]

apple announced that it will be starting a ringtone service on the itunes store for the iphone and universal music group declined to have its songs be a part of it...this is after universal not testing its DRM free content on itunes, and not renewing their contract, allowing them to market "at will" to apple meaning they can remove any of their songs at any time. I understand that the pseudo monopoly that apple has as far as digital downloading is an issue, but come on! record companies have been complaining about lost profits for years and yet universal fails to embrace the new way of obtaining music why is this?

[turtle777]

They are Universally stupid.

-t

[Super Mario]

Steve Jobs wants to be seen as the pioneering distributor of high definition video and movies distributed online. He already achieved the other benchmarks (OS, hardware, increased sales and share price, online music, portable music players) and wants video to be his last legacy before he stands down. Toshiba sent some of their sweeteners over to Universal to rain on Apple's parade because they want Apple and Steve Jobs (Mr Disney-Pixar) to come out and say something solid about high definition discs. It's pressure.

[TETENAL]

This ringtone stuff is bullshit. Apple should just allow any sound file to be used as ringtone (Jobs after all asked for DRM-free music in an open letter, so that should apply for use as rintone as well, shouldn't it?) If Universal is the company that breaks Apple's monopoly which forces such useless expenses on users, then that's a good thing.

Although I wished it was consumers who would do it. My cell phone came with two dozens or so of ringtones preinstalled (and I think it takes any AAC as ringtone). Why would I purchase another one for 5€? That's retarded.

[analogika]

You're not a teen with disposable income.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

This ringtone stuff is bullshit. Apple should just allow any sound file to be used as ringtone.

Quality control Tenetal. When an iPhone rings in the street Apple wants people to lift their heads and think "I can hear an iPhone". Can't make that happen if users are choosing any old sound file.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Steve Jobs wants to be seen as the pioneering distributor of high definition video and movies distributed online. He already achieved the other benchmarks (OS, hardware, increased sales and share price, online music, portable music players) and wants video to be his last legacy before he stands down. Toshiba sent some of their sweeteners over to Universal to rain on Apple's parade because they want Apple and Steve Jobs (Mr Disney-Pixar) to come out and say something solid about high definition discs. It's pressure.

Yes. I'm sure Universal just has some illogical hate of everything Apple....

Universal is launching a free ad supported site that will host episodes of all their TV shows. I can't believe Universal wouldn't still want to charge for their shows elsewhere.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Yes. I'm sure Universal just has some illogical hate of everything Apple

WTF?

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

When an iPhone rings in the street Apple wants people to lift their heads and think "I can hear an iPhone".

That doesn't work when users select parts of songs from their iTunes music. Afaik the iPhone already comes with about a dozen ringtones. The recognition of an iPhone probably doesn't even work when a user selects one of those other than the default one.

[OreoCookie]

Apple is getting stronger and stronger while Universal doesn't want to give its power away, it's as simple as that: before Apple entered the scene, the Big 4 determined the fate of (most of) the music industry. Now Apple got from 0 to music retailer #3 (behind Walmart and Best Buy, overtook Amazon already) in just a few years and with a market share of 70+ % of legal downloads as well as a similarly big market share in the mp3 player business, they have quite some weight.

So Apple can throw its weight behind some things and Universal is trying to do the same. However, since the boss of Apple is named Steve Jobs, a perfectionist who likes to have things his way, there is little room for compromise. Ditto for Apple vs. NBC, by the way.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

That doesn't work when users select parts of songs from their iTunes music. Afaik the iPhone already comes with about a dozen ringtones. The recognition of an iPhone probably doesn't even work when a user selects one of those other than the default one.

I can recognise if a person has a Sony Ericsson or a Nokia just from their default tunes. If 10,000 iPhone users in your burb only have a dozen tones to choose from you might soon learn they all belong to an iPhone.

[TETENAL]

I recognize a Sony Ericsson phone from the default ringtone because I use that ringtone myself. But I don't recognize any other brand and I won't memorize a dozen ringtones of each brand, sorry. Not everbody is a geek.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

I can recognise if a person has a Sony Ericsson or a Nokia just from their default tunes. If 10,000 iPhone users in your burb only have a dozen tones to choose from you might soon learn they all belong to an iPhone.

But you're obviously an exception. People are unlikely to recognize a ring unless they've heard it a LOT, and usually that's their own phone. Yeah, I can recognize a couple Nokia rings, but that's it.

[::maroma::]

I just don't get why these companies are jumping off of an incredibly successful ship. They don't have to do jack squat and they are making money. Yet they want to spend tons of cash starting their own service, desperately trying to overtake iTunes. I don't get it at all.

Why not work with Apple, and make the market share grow even more? Why not help make iTunes Store the #1 online retailer for digital content? Everyone wins, with minimal out of pocket costs for the big guys like NBC, Universal, etc.

Is Apple really taking that much of the cut? Is NBC and Universal losing that much profit that they feel its a loss for them? They'd rather spend the capital and start their own service, which is a massive gamble. What the hell?

[analogika]

They're NOT PULLING OUT! - they're just not renewing a LONG-TERM contract. This is just the monthly let's-call-up-some-journalists-and-let-them-know-that-we're-considering-pulling-out-to-pressure-Apple session.


It's not about money.

It's about control.

Universal may be willing to risk losing money by pulling out, but not having to make it at the mercy of Apple might be worth paying for.

But again: At this point, Universal is merely using the press and shorter-term contracts to shift the power-base away from Apple a bit.

As it stands, they don't really have a decent alternative to selling via the Apple iTunes store.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Yes. I'm sure Universal just has some illogical hate of everything Apple....

Universal is launching a free ad supported site that will host episodes of all their TV shows. I can't believe Universal wouldn't still want to charge for their shows elsewhere.

And that's the reason they specifically deny Apple their DRM-free tracks, is it? I think you've got your cause and effect backwards.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Universal are a bunch of idiots. It is them that are prolonging the High Def wars. Now they go and do something stupid like this.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Universal are a bunch of idiots. It is them that are prolonging the High Def wars.

Sony are a bunch of idiots. It is them that are prolonging the High Def wars.
Fox are a bunch of idiots. It is them that are prolonging the High Def wars.
Etc.

[KeyLimePi]

Don't forget, Universal and NBC are both owned by GE.

[Art Vandelay]

And don't forget that NBC Universal and Universal Music Group are two entirely different companies with different owners. NBC Universal is owned by GE. Universal Music Group is owned by Vivendi SA.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

I recognize a Sony Ericsson phone from the default ringtone because I use that ringtone myself.

Controlling ring tones is similar to Apple having not changed the start up chime even when everything else has changed. It's iconic corporate branding. When a Mac is started up and chimes everyone knows there is a Mac nearby. That's what they are trying to control. In a sea of mobile phones ringing all around you they are hoping that their ring tones will be catchy and unique enough to make an iPhone stand out in a crowd. It's not open as we want it, that's corporate thinking in a nutshell.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Universal are a bunch of idiots. It is them that are prolonging the High Def wars.

Really? Is the other side willing to give in and Universal just won't let them?

[sideus]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

This ringtone stuff is bullshit. Apple should just allow any sound file to be used as ringtone (Jobs after all asked for DRM-free music in an open letter, so that should apply for use as rintone as well, shouldn't it?) If Universal is the company that breaks Apple's monopoly which forces such useless expenses on users, then that's a good thing.

Although I wished it was consumers who would do it. My cell phone came with two dozens or so of ringtones preinstalled (and I think it takes any AAC as ringtone). Why would I purchase another one for 5€? That's retarded.

http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/itoner/

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

And don't forget that NBC Universal and Universal Music Group are two entirely different companies with different owners. NBC Universal is owned by GE. Universal Music Group is owned by Vivendi SA.

Might want to brush up there Art. GE purchased 80% of Vivendi in 2004 forming NBC Universal, and leaving 20% as the Universal Music Group with Vivendi. Vivendi is not a player in this at all. My brother works on the GE accounting team that keeps track of Vivendi. I remember a story he told me a few years back after GE formed NBC Universal. In his first meeting with Universal Studios, Universal execs seemed excited and proposed 2.8 million in park renovations. The response from his team was " We purchased you to make money. Cut 5 million in 90 days when we return." Welcome to GE.

This is GE intimidating Apple. Very simple. IMO, it will back fire. An agreement will be reached by Dec 07. I sent a letter yesterday to NBC that I am boycotting their network until they come to their senses. Everyone else should do the same.

[freudling]

Greed.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

GE purchased 80% of Vivendi in 2004

This doesn't seem right:

http://www.vivendi.com/corp/en/group/structure.php

No single shareholder owns more than 6% of Vivendi and GE doesn't seem to be a major shareholder of them.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

Might want to brush up there Art. GE purchased 80% of Vivendi in 2004 forming NBC Universal, and leaving 20% as the Universal Music Group with Vivendi. Vivendi is not a player in this at all. My brother works on the GE accounting team that keeps track of Vivendi. I remember a story he told me a few years back after GE formed NBC Universal. In his first meeting with Universal Studios, Universal execs seemed excited and proposed 2.8 million in park renovations. The response from his team was " We purchased you to make money. Cut 5 million in 90 days when we return." Welcome to GE.

Actually, you might want to brush up there, Glidescope. NBC Universal is 80% owned by GE and 20% owned by Vivendi SA. GE purchased Vivendi Universal Entertainment, not the parent company Vivendi SA. Universal Music Group is 100% owned by Vivendi SA.

GE has nothing to do with Universal Music Group and their dealings with Apple.

[turtle777]

Actually, you guys might wanna brush up.

I OWN GE !!!11!1!oneone.

-t

[air]

$$$

[Cold Warrior]

If I owned NBC and Universal stock, I'd dump it. No point in sticking with a company that avoids the "brutal facts." (To quote From Good to Great, by Jim Collins.)

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

Actually, you might want to brush up there, Glidescope. NBC Universal is 80% owned by GE and 20% owned by Vivendi SA. GE purchased Vivendi Universal Entertainment, not the parent company Vivendi SA. Universal Music Group is 100% owned by Vivendi SA.

GE has nothing to do with Universal Music Group and their dealings with Apple.

That's what I said Art. My Brothers dealings were with Universal Studios in Orlando. The Theme Park. I should have clarified they were meeting with Universal Park execs. Not Vivendi. My error.

It's just a bummer that GE is sooo greedy.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

It's just a bummer that GE is sooo greedy.

Why ?

Let them get their feelings hurt and then beg Apple to take them back. That's exactly what's going to happen. They need Apple mor ethan Apple needs them.

-t