[brassplayersrock²]

does anyone know of any dual players that does everything for both disks?(animated menus on hd ect) and plays cds as well? i currently have the samsung bh100, and when i popped in an hd and no animated menus (just numbered menus with no pictures) during play, I was a bit peeved. I knew about it not playing CDs, but I'm tempted to return it and get a ps3(CD playback/blu-ray playback) and a standalone hd player for all features.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

If I bought a HD DVD drive for my 360 I don't think I'd consider it a standalone drive!

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Why not? Its only purpose is to play HD DVD movies, nothing more.

Because it doesn't stand alone! It hangs off the side of the x-box. I doubt if it even lights up if standing alone. It's like a parasite (a creature that can't stand alone). I'd consider a PS3 to be more of a stand alone HD player.

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

... I'm tempted to return it and get a ps3(CD playback/blu-ray playback) and a standalone hd player for all features.

Is it true that PS3's don't even have remote controls for the CD/DVD/BluRay or did I hear that wrong?

[brassplayersrock²]

i think you heard wrong

Amazon.com: Sony PlayStation 3 Blu-ray Disc Remote: Video Games.

and i'm assuming the play/pause/stop/fastfwd/rewind buttons work for both the cds and the movies respectivly.

edit:
no farkin' power button? the remote i have for my ps2 has a farkin' power button

[cjrivera]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Is it true that PS3's don't even have remote controls for the CD/DVD/BluRay or did I hear that wrong?

I think the gripe is that the PS3 doesn't have an IR remote control, that you could setup and use with a universal remote control.

The PS3 remote is bluetooth and incompatible (for the most part) with universal remotes.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

So, the Venturer HD DVD player is now available at Wal-Mart, at least in Canada.
Some guy already bought one.

--- img ---

If it's $199 in Canada regular price, then I expect it to go for US$149 on sale.

It's now available at Wal-Mart USA for $199.98. (The Toshiba HD-A3 there is $247.28.)
So, $149 on sale might be pushing it, but I could definitely see $169.

Originally Posted by Eug 

The Venturer SHD7000 is the same as the Toshiba HD-A3.
I suspect Alco (who is the parent of Venturer) is the manufacturer of the Toshiba players.

Toshiba HD-A3 with 1.3 firmware:

Machine Code: HDA3TKU
Submicom Version: HDA3TU1000TD
Group ID: 0a
Model ID: 97
Package Version: 1300
NAND Version: 1101
NOR Version: 1300
WinCE Version: 1000
FWH Version 0511
Drive Version: 1150
Scaler Version: ......

Venturer SHD7000 with 1.1 firmware:

Machine Code: HDA3KAU
Submicom Version: HDA3TU1000TD
Group ID: 0a
Model ID: 97
Package Version: 1100
NAND Version: 0927
NOR Version: 1100
WinCE Version: 1000
FWH Version: 0511
Drive Version: 1150
Scaler Version: -----

So, after somebody updated his Venturer's firmware online (using the network jack), the SHD7000 is now at firmware 1.3, which is the latest firmware for the Toshiba HD-A3.

[CaseCom]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

does anyone know of any dual players that does everything for both disks?(animated menus on hd ect) and plays cds as well? i currently have the samsung bh100, and when i popped in an hd and no animated menus (just numbered menus with no pictures) during play, I was a bit peeved. I knew about it not playing CDs, but I'm tempted to return it and get a ps3(CD playback/blu-ray playback) and a standalone hd player for all features.

The delayed Samsung BD-UP5000, now expected next month, is supposed to have full HD DVD functionality, HQV Reon upconversion for SD DVDs, and the ability to upgrade via firmware to Blu-ray Profile 1.1. It sounds good, but it'll list for $1K, and it's a Samsung so you know something will be messed up somehow.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by CaseCom 

The delayed Samsung BD-UP5000, now expected next month, is supposed to have full HD DVD functionality, HQV Reon upconversion for SD DVDs, and the ability to upgrade via firmware to Blu-ray Profile 1.1. It sounds good, but it'll list for $1K, and it's a Samsung so you know something will be messed up somehow.

Plus, for $1000, I'd want BR 2.0 compatibility. Otherwise, you'd be better off just getting a 40 GB PS3 and a Toshiba player.

[brassplayersrock²]

sweet. maybe I'll do a trade in for it since I get my products through a seller that allows that for any upgrades to a sold unit, even if you bought it 5 years ago

btw, differences between BR 1.1 and 2 are?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

btw, differences between BR 1.1 and 2 are?

Exactly the problem.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

sweet. maybe I'll do a trade in for it since I get my products through a seller that allows that for any upgrades to a sold unit, even if you bought it 5 years ago

btw, differences between BR 1.1 and 2 are?

The main difference is network support.

Note that the Samsung WILL have a network jack (cuz it's mandatory for all HD DVD players), but that doesn't guarantee it will have BD 2.0 compliance.

[brassplayersrock²]

on the BD100 it has an ethernet input for updates only. Will the network jack be an actual internet connection?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

on the BD100 it has an ethernet input for updates only. Will the network jack be an actual internet connection?

Yes. Besides for updates, net access (for special features, etc.) is the point of the Ethernet jack on all HD DVD players and on Profile 2.0 Blu-ray players (which don't exist yet).

ie. You're not ahead by getting the Samsung, because the PS3 also will get 1.1 support and may even eventually get 2.0 support. About the only the Samsung has as an advantage is IR remote support.

[brassplayersrock²]

well, in the process, i got a new tv, sonos, and a couple of other things that I was able to get programmed into a universal remote, so an IR support was/is important to me.

[placebo1969]

My wife and I just took the plunge. We bought a Sony 40" 1080p LCD and Samsung 1400 Blu-Ray player. I'm not sure if HD-DVD players have this issues, but at least with the Samsung, there are firmware updates. We bought Spiderman 3 and there were some audio glitches. After updating the firmware, everything worked fine. The picture quality is excellent. Be sure to use HDMI cables to get the best picture.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by placebo1969 

We bought Spiderman 3 and there were some audio glitches.

Oh man that sucks!


That you bought Spider-Man 3, not that you had audio glitches.

[Dakarʒ]

Zing.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Oh man that sucks!


That you bought Spider-Man 3, not that you had audio glitches.

Quoted for those who didn't get it... I still haven't seen Spiderman 3. I wasn't that fond of the first two. They were good in the same way that Transformers was good -- they didn't completely mess up the license like Daredevil or Elektra or the Hulk (IMHO), etc.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Quoted for those who didn't get it... I still haven't seen Spiderman 3. I wasn't that fond of the first two. They were good in the same way that Transformers was good -- they didn't completely mess up the license like Daredevil or Elektra or the Hulk (IMHO), etc.

I actually really enjoyed the first two movies. They were definitely flawed and broke quite a bit away from Spider-Man canon, but they were fun. The third movie just downright sucked. It seemed like the writers from the first two movies quit and they hired some 12 year olds to finish. All of the dialogue was horrible, there were parts of the plot that simply didn't make sense, and half of the film seemed just tacked on at the last minute. It was a jumbled mess.

Not that this has anything to do with BD/HD.

[Eug]

I thought the first movie was great. I thought the second movie was pretty great.

I thought the third movie sucked donkeys balls. I'm still shocked Spider-Man got a medicre rating. (62% on RottenTomatoes - albeit with a 44% rating from the cream of the crop, and 59% on MetaCritic) I would have given it an outright fail.

Still, I thought it might do better on Blu-ray, since it did so well at the theatres. I guess the reason it didn't is because people got turned off when they saw it in the theatre.

[placebo1969]

Ah, I get it.

I wouldn't say we bought the movie for its artistic talents. We wanted to get a movie that would showcase high definition and something that neither one of us has seen. It fit the bill. The movie was okay.

[Dakarʒ]

Too late, damage done. We all now look down upon your taste in films and you will be shunned as an outcast.

I hope it was worth it.

[brassplayersrock²]

"done upon your taste"?

[Eug]

Venturer SHD 7001 HD DVD player product webpage at Venturer Europe



Note that the display says "408bc504".
That's the code displayed when the player has a problem reading a disc.

[Montezuma58]

Reason the Neilson numbers are bunk.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Montezuma58 

Reason the Neilson numbers are bunk.

Yeah, each side is going to be trying to make things look good for themselves of course, but you have to take everything from a website like "HD DVD Fan Page" with a grain of salt.

[icruise]

Are the many HD-DVD giveaways never included in sales numbers?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Are the many HD-DVD giveaways never included in sales numbers?

Mostly no, but some yes.

As I understand it, if it's included in the box, or if it's a mail-in rebate, it doesn't get counted in the Nielson numbers. However, if it's a separate disk that you get in the store with a player but separately scanned, then it counts, even if you got it for free.

So, Toshiba's 2+5 free deal doesn't count at all towards Nielson's numbers. However, Amazon's deal where you get an additional few discs from Amazon for free would count.

Furthermore, every disc in those BuyOneGetOneFree sales also count. Blu-ray has been using these BOGO sales to inflate their software sales numbers, which curiously often happen around big HD DVD releases. Personally, I think this is good business practice and good for the PR war, and is good for the consumer too. I wish there were more of them on the HD DVD side.

eg.
Toshiba 5 + 2 free HD DVD deal with a player = 7 discs, but 0 discs for Nielson
Amazon 3 extra free disc deal with a player with Toshiba 5 + 2 deal = 10 discs, but 3 discs for Nielson
Blu-ray BOGO deal = 2 discs for Nielson, even though one was free.

[Montezuma58]

Looks like Wal-Mart will be having another "secret" sale this Friday. 5 free movies in store with the purchase of an HD-A2 or HD-A3, plus the 5 movie mail in rebate and the 2 in box if you get the A3. It looks like it will be a crap shoot as to which ones a particular store will have in stock. I'm guessing it will be heavily weighted with A3's. As of now they have the prices listed as $199 for the A2 and $299 for the A3. I don't know if that will be the price for the sale.

They'll also give a $50 gift card with the purchase of a PS3 and will have a 50" Vizio TV available during the sale.

[PaperNotes]

Oz video rental giants go Blu-ray only | Reg Hardware

[Kenneth]

Okay, I received a HD-DVD movie as a gift but I don't own any HD-DVD player; Blu-ray player here. BTW, what's the deal with HD-DVD Combo disc. HD-DVD and DVD on one disc? Why do they do that?

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Kenneth 

Okay, I received a HD-DVD movie as a gift but I don't own any HD-DVD player; Blu-ray player here. BTW, what's the deal with HD-DVD Combo disc. HD-DVD and DVD on one disc? Why do they do that?

so you can use your legacy players on SD sets

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Kenneth 

Okay, I received a HD-DVD movie as a gift but I don't own any HD-DVD player; Blu-ray player here. BTW, what's the deal with HD-DVD Combo disc. HD-DVD and DVD on one disc? Why do they do that?

People (like me) who want to buy a movie with possibility of upgrading to full HD in the near future, but don't currently own an HD-DVD player. Or, buy the movie in HD, but want a friend or family member who doesn't own an HD player to see the movie.

I think that's a little better than buying a Blu-Ray 2.0 movie, only to not be able to access special features because you have a Blu-Ray 1.0 player. Why do they do that?

[Eug]

Interesting study:



Quality > price >> content available.

Oh and Blu-ray has announced 2.7 million Blu-ray players (including the PS3) sold to near the end of November in North America. That compares to 750000 HD DVD players sold. So, there is a 3.6:1 ratio of Blu-ray to HD DVD players out there.

Originally Posted by Kenneth 

Okay, I received a HD-DVD movie as a gift but I don't own any HD-DVD player; Blu-ray player here. BTW, what's the deal with HD-DVD Combo disc. HD-DVD and DVD on one disc? Why do they do that?

As others have said, it maximizes compatibility. It works in both HD DVD players and with legacy DVD players as well. Sure, DVDs work in HD DVD players as well, but the quality sucks in comparison.

BTW, which movie?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

MacNN | Director: Microsoft fueling HD wars

"Microsoft is deliberately feeding into the HD disc format wars to ensure that its own downloads succeed where physical copies fail, says movie director Michael Bay in a response to a question posed through his official forums. The producer contends that Microsoft is writing "$100 million dollar checks" to movie studios to ensure HD DVD exclusives that hurt the overall market regardless of the format's actual merit or its popularity, preventing any one format from gaining a clear upper hand."

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

MacNN | Director: Microsoft fueling HD wars

"Microsoft is deliberately feeding into the HD disc format wars to ensure that its own downloads succeed where physical copies fail, says movie director Michael Bay in a response to a question posed through his official forums. The producer contends that Microsoft is writing "$100 million dollar checks" to movie studios to ensure HD DVD exclusives that hurt the overall market regardless of the format's actual merit or its popularity, preventing any one format from gaining a clear upper hand."

The funny part is that Microsoft has already gone on record to say this isn't the case, and that Toshiba has also gone on record to say that any such incentives came from Toshiba. And then he's mixing in idiotic claims that MS's intent is stall the war on both sides, despite the fact MS is liable to make lots of money if HD DVD wins. Remember, MS designed HDi.

ie. Michael Bay is repeating rumours that were debunked months ago.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by Eug 

As others have said, it maximizes compatibility. It works in both HD DVD players and with legacy DVD players as well. Sure, DVDs work in HD DVD players as well, but the quality sucks in comparison.

BTW, which movie?

That makes sense. I'm not really a special feature/bonus material kind of guy, so as long as the main featured movie plays, it's fine for me. Of course, I have never experienced anything on the HD-DVD camp, I cannot tell at this time for things like downloading extra content, P-in-P, etc.

The movie is The Bourne Supremacy.

[brassplayersrock²]

that is a great movie on hd

[mrtew]

Well, I got my HDTV and DVR and Xbox360 a year ago for Xmas but decided to wait for a HD winner before investing in a HDplayer and HDmovies. I'm kinda glad I did because last year it looked like HD was going to prevail, but now I'm ready to call it for BluRay.

I'm thinking of getting a PS3 because of the 'free' game console but since we've always been an Xbox family I don't know too much about it. Is there any reason NOT to get a PS3 if you're going to buy a BluRay player? And is there any reason to get the 80gig model over the 40gig model? (what are all those gigs even for; extra cars and tracks?)

P.S. If for some reason I change my mind at the last minute and go for HD-DVD would there be any reason to get the Xbox add-on rather than a standalone player?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Well, I got my HDTV and DVR and Xbox360 a year ago for Xmas but decided to wait for a HD winner before investing in a HDplayer and HDmovies. I'm kinda glad I did because last year it looked like HD was going to prevail, but now I'm ready to call it for BluRay.

I'm thinking of getting a PS3 because of the 'free' game console but since we've always been an Xbox family I don't know too much about it. Is there any reason NOT to get a PS3 if you're going to buy a BluRay player? And is there any reason to get the 80gig model over the 40gig model? (what are all those gigs even for; extra cars and tracks?)

P.S. If for some reason I change my mind at the last minute and go for HD-DVD would there be any reason to get the Xbox add-on rather than a standalone player?

Amazon, Toys R Us discount Xbox 360 HD DVD to $129

Amazon.com, Toys R Us brick and mortar locations and Toysrus.com now sell the peripheral for $129.99, price cut from an MSRP of $179.99.

The current Xbox 360 HD DVD SKU includes a copy of King Kong on HD DVD, Media Remote, and a mail-in rebate for five free HD DVD discs.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

I'm thinking of getting a PS3 because of the 'free' game console but since we've always been an Xbox family I don't know too much about it. Is there any reason NOT to get a PS3 if you're going to buy a BluRay player? And is there any reason to get the 80gig model over the 40gig model? (what are all those gigs even for; extra cars and tracks?)

I'd say the PS3 is still the best bet for a Blu-ray player at the moment. It's *slightly* less user friendly than a standalone when it comes to playing movies, and you do have to get the remote control if you want to control them confortably, but otherwise it works very well. And the PS3 is finally starting to get some good games.

P.S. If for some reason I change my mind at the last minute and go for HD-DVD would there be any reason to get the Xbox add-on rather than a standalone player?

My experience with the 360 is that while it's a very good gaming console, it has pretty serious noise and reliability problems, so I would be reluctant to use it as my primary movie viewing machine, especially since the price difference between the add-on and a standalone player isn't so huge anymore.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The funny part is that Microsoft has already gone on record to say this isn't the case, and that Toshiba has also gone on record to say that any such incentives came from Toshiba..

Because PR releases really say such things don't they. Funny part is how people conveniently forget how MS did this during the 80s and 90s to spread Windows and oppress competition by giving money and offering incentives to system manufacturers and software developers to stay away from alternatives.

Games are now filling up DVD-9 discs. Completely. What is going to happen next year to all those 360s when games hit 20GBs + and MS says they won't ever allow games to load from the external HD-DVD drive? Now that was one hell of a lack of foresight. Congrats MS. Constantly proving that they try to buy the future because they can't innovate for the future.

[Montezuma58]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

I'm thinking of getting a PS3 because of the 'free' game console but since we've always been an Xbox family I don't know too much about it. Is there any reason NOT to get a PS3 if you're going to buy a BluRay player? And is there any reason to get the 80gig model over the 40gig model? (what are all those gigs even for; extra cars and tracks?)

The 40 gig P33 does not have backwards compatibility for PS2 games.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Because PR releases really say such things don't they. Funny part is how people conveniently forget how MS did this during the 80s and 90s to spread Windows and oppress competition by giving money and offering incentives to system manufacturers and software developers to stay away from alternatives.

MS offered incentives to PROMOTE Windows... You somehow think MS is offering incentives to STALL HD DVD, a format they help develop and one they make significant royalties off of? That makes zero sense at all. It's especially laughable when Toshiba itself already said it was they who offered incentives to Paramount, not MS. It was amusing seeing all the Blu-ray fanboy sites squirm after this, because they had claimed as fact that MS did that, despite having no proof of this whatsoever. However, Michael Bay seems oblivious and continues to make the same unsubstantiated claims, when even Blu-ray fanboy sites don't anymore.

Games are now filling up DVD-9 discs. Completely. What is going to happen next year to all those 360s when games hit 20GBs + and MS says they won't ever allow games to load from the external HD-DVD drive? Now that was one hell of a lack of foresight. Congrats MS. Constantly proving that they try to buy the future because they can't innovate for the future.

What does this have to do with Michael Bay's comments? But since you brought it up... The Wii is the best-selling game console, and the Xbox 360 is the 2nd best. Console costs do matter. Oh and judging by the reviews... the Xbox 360's games are better than those on the PS3.

Nobody says having extra storage space is a bad thing. However, forcing everyone to pay significantly more for the extra storage space in a price-conscious market is definitely a bad thing, especially when your games don't seem to justify that added cost... as is evidenced by the poor overall PS3 sales. The PS3 is dead last in the console war, with less than half the total sales of either of the competing consoles.

-----

BTW... For the DD+ naysayers: Home Media Magazine HD Awards

A panel of critics and bloggers determined the best titles in 11 categories, with eligibility dating back to the inception of each high-def format — HD DVD in April 2006 and Blu-ray Disc in June 2006.

High Def Title of the Year: 300 (Blu-ray), Warner Home Video
Best Live-Action Blu-ray: Casino Royale, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment
Best Live-Action HD DVD: Hot Fuzz, Universal Studios Home Entertainment
Best Animated: Ratatouille (Blu-ray), Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment
Best Picture Quality: Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man’s Chest (Blu-ray), Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment
Best Audio Quality: Transformers (HD DVD), Paramount Home Entertainment
Best Bonus Feature: 300 (HD DVD), Bluescreen Picture-in-Picture, Warner Home Video
Most Innovative Use of New Technology: HD DVD U-Shop feature (Internet purchase ability), Universal Studios Home Entertainment
Best Long-Form Music Video: Dave Mathews & Tim Reynolds: Live at Radio City Music Hall (Blu-ray), Sony BMG
Best Catalog: Kingdom of Heaven: Director’s Cut, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
Best Collection/Multidisc Set: Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment

[Kevin]

You know who is winning? Just regular DVD players. Most consumers only care that they can watch their Movies.

[icruise]

Did we ever get sales numbers for Cars and Ratatouille?

[ort888]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Because PR releases really say such things don't they. Funny part is how people conveniently forget how MS did this during the 80s and 90s to spread Windows and oppress competition by giving money and offering incentives to system manufacturers and software developers to stay away from alternatives.

Games are now filling up DVD-9 discs. Completely. What is going to happen next year to all those 360s when games hit 20GBs + and MS says they won't ever allow games to load from the external HD-DVD drive? Now that was one hell of a lack of foresight. Congrats MS. Constantly proving that they try to buy the future because they can't innovate for the future.

Well, while Sony was busy preparing for the future, they completely destroyed their present by pricing their console $200 above the competition. So far we have yet to see a single game that shows the significant advantage of Blu-ray. Not a single one. Meanwhile, 360 hardware is outselling the PS3 about 2.5 to 1 and 360 games are outselling PS3 games about 5 to 1. So who had lack of foresight again?

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Well, while Sony was busy preparing for the future, they completely destroyed their present by pricing their console $200 above the competition.

You mean, like they did with the PSX and PS2? Gosh, you mean a product like the PS3 should sell for the same price as a Wii? Or how about speccing a 360 to match a PS3 and then do a price comparison. **** me sideways with a broom. Hasn't your stupid point been beaten to death already......

So far we have yet to see a single game that shows the significant advantage of Blu-ray.

So far we have yet to see a single application that shows the signicant advantage of Leopard. Let's switch to Windows then. Gosh, yo. The future is not coming.

Meanwhile, 360 hardware is outselling the PS3 about 2.5 to 1 and 360 games are outselling PS3 games about 5 to 1.

And Dells are still outselling Macs by bazillions too. If you're so hung up on figures and how convincing they are why ignore Blu-ray movie sales figures which are now 3:1 over HD DVD?

It's that kind of crapocrisy that I just can't figure out about HD DVD fans. It's like they're ****ing thick in the head or wearing three sets of blinds.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

You know who is winning? Just regular DVD players. Most consumers only care that they can watch their Movies.

You know who is winning? Just regular CD players. Most consumers only care that they can listen to their Music.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

You mean, like they did with the PSX and PS2? Gosh, you mean a product like the PS3 should sell for the same price as a Wii? Or how about speccing a 360 to match a PS3 and then do a price comparison. **** me sideways with a broom. Hasn't your stupid point been beaten to death already......

Huh? The PS2 was released at $299 in the US, which happened to be the same price as the Xbox the following year. In other words, the PS2 came out well BEFORE the Xbox, at the same price, not $200 more.

And the reason people keep bringing this up is because it's totally obvious, yet some here refuse accept such obvious logic. When the price announced, all the gamer geeks said the PS3 cost too much... because of the Blu-ray drive. Sony said it wasn't too expensive, because it was a good value for what you get. When it came to actual sales numbers... Guess what? Sony's sales numbers sucked, because the PS3 cost too much. It was amusing to watch Sony tell its own customers that the price was not too high, when those same customers were saying the price was too high. I mean, come on, that's just plain stupid and arrogant.

Now the PS3 is starting to sell better. Why? Cuz they dropped the price into gamer console territory.

Anyways, if you keep repeating Sony's misguided logic which history has already proven wrong, we'll keep repeating the actual facts on the matter.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

You mean, like they did with the PSX and PS2? Gosh, you mean a product like the PS3 should sell for the same price as a Wii? Or how about speccing a 360 to match a PS3 and then do a price comparison. **** me sideways with a broom. Hasn't your stupid point been beaten to death already......

Why the hell would you "spec" a gaming console? Here are the specs that matter: to play games on the 360 I only need to pay $279. To play games on the PS3 I need to pay $399.

That's it.