[Seaking]

Hi there.. I'm new to the Mac World of things with a late model 2.4 Ghz 20" iMac. My primary reason for picking up this iMac is for video editing and photo editing.

I'm at a bit of a loss over the firewire setup on the iMac. I understand there is a FW400 port (larger port) and the FW800 port (smaller).

I also understand that though you can indeed use a USB2 external HDD as a scratch disk, I was planning on picking up a LaCie USB2/FW800/400 external HDD for portability and for video editing.

I tried hooking up my Panasonic DVC30 video camera via 4 pin to 6 pin cable (larger port on the iMac) but the camera isn't seen or acknowledged what so ever to the system, either with iVideo or FCE. A bit of a downer as I can't find anything in the literature that would point me in the right direction as to why its not being seen.

Am I right to assume that you would hook up a FW800 HDD to the smaller 9 pin FW port and the camera to the larger FW400 port? Or am I hooped from the starting gate with the wrong system or setup?

I've no probs editing on any of the PCs in the house but the iMac is where I am hoping to get things rolling soon.

Any suggestions?

Cheers

[Big Mac]

You're right that the camera should be recognized by the Firewire 400 port. You can also get an adapter to connect it to the Firewire 800 port, but if it's not seen by the 400 port you've got some problem you have to look into. You open iMovie or Final Cut with the camera connected and on and you can't control the camera or have it import anything?

[Seaking]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

You're right that the camera should be recognized by the Firewire 400 port. You can also get an adapter to connect it to the Firewire 800 port, but if it's not seen by the 400 port you've got some problem you have to look into. You open iMovie or Final Cut with the camera connected and on and you can't control the camera or have it import anything?

I've tried it several ways. Hooked up everything while everything is OFF. Then switch on the iMac, let it warm up and then switch on the camera in VCR/Play mode. Launch iMovie and all I get is that silly little webcam showing some silly ugly git that looks overly familiar to me.. But no dice on the DVC30 video camera. I've tried several 4 to 6 pin cables and nuttin.

Hopefully just a silly little problem I'm missing.. hopefully resolved soon.

Cheers

[analogika]

It doesn't show up in the camera popup menu that appears when you're distracted by that weird guy you meet in the bathroom every morning?

[Seaking]

Originally Posted by analogika 

It doesn't show up in the camera popup menu that appears when you're distracted by that weird guy you meet in the bathroom every morning?

Nothing happens when the video camera is turned on while attached to the FW400 port. Could it be a dead FW port?! I have an older FW external CD drive I can try tonight to see if that is seen, at least it will let me know if the port is alive or not..


Cheers

[analogika]

Does the System Profiler see it?

[Seaking]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Does the System Profiler see it?

When I checked with System Profiler it only showed the firewire port but nothing attached to it. On a PC you may sometimes have to load drivers and such but what about a mac product?

2nd edit: I did find this interesting tidbit: Unable to locate the following external devices Apple FireWire NTSC (720x480) iMac

I'll have to try this when I get home tonight. However what is different is that the camera (Panasonic DVC30) is powered by AC outlet and not by the firewire port. Other searches this morning stated such things as doing a shut down for 30 mins and restarting to see if the port itself is dead. Apparently there is also a diagnostic app that can be used to look at the system to discover any problems.

I always make sure the iMac and Camera are turned off before connecting or disconnecting the cables, is this really required? Or is FW hot swappable like USB?

Its either a niggly little problem or that the iMac has to go back for repairs/replacement.. Not a promising outlook for someone switching from PC Windblows to Mac products.. the nerd guy look more foolish in this commercial. Everything works fine with the PC but the Mac is incapable of doing the basic video work. erk!

[MacPino]

That's one frustrating problem! Some things you might try & answers:

* "drivers" (the windows kind) are normally not necessary on the mac. There are exceptions, but firewire DV cams are not.
* Is your camera on the official iMovie compatibility list? It's a list somewhere on the apple site (knowledge base). A lot of camera's that are not on the list work fine, but it's easier if you know it should work.
* maybe a stupid one: My camcorder (a simple sony) has playback and record modes. iMovie doesn't recognize it as long as it is in rec mode. So maybe your Panasonic has something similar?

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Seaking 

I always make sure the iMac and Camera are turned off before connecting or disconnecting the cables, is this really required? Or is FW hot swappable like USB?

It's hot swappable. Did you try connecting that Firewire drive instead?

[Seaking]

Hi MacPino, thanks for the reply.. I hadn't been able to find a 'compatability list' for cameras on the iMac but I'm guessing that the Panasonic DVC30 won't be on it. Its not a NEW camera but it's a popular prosumer vidcam.

The DVC30 has a record and playback mode like all video cameras. When connected to the PC, to recorded your edited video back to tape (export video to tape), the camera goes on Play mode to record (weird one that).. But I did try the video camera in both modes while booting up, restarting etc etc.. nada...

I'll be trying the FW400 DVD burner tonight when I get home.

Are you able to run your Sony on the FW400 AND a HDD on the FW800? I'm finding out through various forums that this isn't possible etc.. However, I did find some info about doing certain resets on the PMR and VMC?! (can't remember which) but it entailed shutting down the iMac, disconnect everything for 30 mins and giving her a shot again.. But couldn't find anyone claiming to be successfully running a vid cam and hdd at the same time.

Originally Posted by MacPino 

That's one frustrating problem! Some things you might try & answers:

* "drivers" (the windows kind) are normally not necessary on the mac. There are exceptions, but firewire DV cams are not.
* Is your camera on the official iMovie compatibility list? It's a list somewhere on the apple site (knowledge base). A lot of camera's that are not on the list work fine, but it's easier if you know it should work.
* maybe a stupid one: My camcorder (a simple sony) has playback and record modes. iMovie doesn't recognize it as long as it is in rec mode. So maybe your Panasonic has something similar?

[Seaking]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

It's hot swappable. Did you try connecting that Firewire drive instead?

Ho swappable, thanks.. I'll be trying the FW drive tonight when I get home.

Cheers

[MacPino]

Originally Posted by Seaking 

I'll be trying the FW400 DVD burner tonight when I get home.

Sure do. I'm beginning to suspect a faulty (hardware) firewire port. Did you already use another cable? (the simplest things....)

Originally Posted by Seaking 

Are you able to run your Sony on the FW400 AND a HDD on the FW800? I'm finding out through various forums that this isn't possible etc..

I Don't have an iMac anymore, I've got a MacBook (which only has one FW400, no FW800) so I can't tell directly, but that really shouldn't be the problem. I regularly have a USB2disk, my camera, and maybe one or two random flashdrives connected at the same time, no problem.

One other thing: I don't know where you are located, but could it be a PAL/NTSC problem? For example the camera on NTSC output with the iMac expecting PAL? just thinking out loud.

[Seaking]

Yep tried 3 cables that work on the PC, nothing happening on the iMac. Faulty FW port, on a brand new out of the box iMac, doesn't bode well for the Mac products.. : /

yep, checked the NTSC / PAL thing on both. I'm on the east coast of Canada, so it's NTSC.. I tried all the settings.. However, seeing how FW doesn't show up on Profiler, it won't show up on the software either..

Thinking out loud is good, you never know.. however I don't do it too often as I can't stand the screaming inside my head ; )

[Big Mac]

Sorry about that, Seaking. **** happens.

[Seaking]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Sorry about that, Seaking. **** happens.

no probs M8.. I have a video shoot tonight that I will have to process on the PC. Hopefully before long I will be able to switch the work load over the iMac if I can get these problems resolved.

its gotta be a simple little thing I'm missing in the setup..

i'll let y'alls know how it goes.

Cheers M8

[Seaking]

Bugger.. I'm at home now and tried doing the reset thing (unplug everything for 30 mins) and no device on firewire though it reports "speeds up to 800 etc"..

Shut it down, hooked up FW DVD drive and same deal.. is this a dead FW400 port? I haven't a 9 pin cable to test it out on, at this point not sure if I'm gonna spend money on a dead system.. grrr. Frustrating.

Now gotta find the docs on the Quicktime files removal after updates.. apparently that kills some FW ports until certain files are removed (sorry, can't remember the whole story on that one right now) BUT I shall report later if anything develops.

[MacPino]

Originally Posted by Seaking 

However, seeing how FW doesn't show up on Profiler, it won't show up on the software either..

What doesn't show up: the devices or the ports? If the ports don't show up (no "Firewire" on left list), go pack and back to the store: it's definitely hardware.

If the ports do show up, but no devices, it could be software, so you could keep on trying some stuff. On the other hand, I would have been back to my store already, but I guess that also depends on distance; it's a 15 minute drive for me and I heard distances in Canada are somewhat longer than Holland . This shouldn't be happening on a brand new iMac.

If you're desperate, just shift-F9 (slow exposé) to get your mac fix

edit: I'm really leaning toward a faulty firewire controller (the chip managing both the 400 and the 800 port):
your devices work (checked on pc)
your cables work (3 should be enough...)
leaves only your mac to be faulty (bugger, but DOA happens on the best hardware)

[Seaking]

You know, it JUST occured to me (blame it on being unfamiliar with the system)..

When looking at profiler, on the left side it says "firewire" and when you click on it, the right side shows "FW800" and maximum speed.. but there is no mention of FW400 at all.. HEy wait a tic.. that's the issue at hand. I haven't been able to attach anything to the FW800 port for lack of cables.. If I surmise this properly, when you open profiler and click on 'firewire', should you not see BOTH a line saying FW800 AND FW400, indicating both ports?

if you could also confirm something else about the firewire on these iMacs: Some people are saying these are 'shared ports', in other words, if I have a FW800 HDD attached by itself I get the full fw800 speeds but as soon as I hook up a FW400 video camera, the whole 'shared' bus drops down to the 400 speeds.. I saw an article on another forum saying this is indeed the case while another says it's not.. you'll enjoy each port's rated speeds. At least that's encouraging once I get this working.

I called the tech shop last night after giving everything a try last night when I got home (nothing worked) and they suggested I try a 'hold the power button down on start' which will cause the system to reset and get the FW to work.. of course this didn't work so the iMac goes back to the shop. Forget about getting a replacement.. "once an iMac goes online, its registered to you" was the reply I got.. And to think I paid for a serviceable iMac.

Not knowing what a SHIFT 9 does, I'll wait lol..

So for all intended purposes, this does look like a hardware issue. Its not an issue of distance as much as timing to get to the shop, I work days and by the time I get off work and travel to the far side of the city, their shop is closed long before I get there, and they aren't open on the weekend.. So I have to give up a day of work to get this thing fixed.. The shop I bought it from is closer but can't fix it. Talk about drustrating..

But lets see what they say.. gonna be talking to them today and set something up for repairs.. Luckily a major repair centre is in the city here and I have a 3 yr APP with the iMac. I didn't think I would need it so soon!!

At least the MBP I bought at the same time is working 100%, maybe I should have bought two of them?

[MacPino]

(disclaimer: things might be different in Canada)

I would just go back and ask politely/demand a different one.

You bought a completely new iMac only a few days ago, and an (important) aspect of it doesn't work. That's what I call a DOA (dead on arrival). Because it likely never worked in the first place, they should replace it. It's not my problem they have a system in place for registering or whatever.

If it worked for some time but dies on you, it's a warranty case. That's different.

In the Netherlands, stores would normally accept a line of thought like that, but as said before: NL is not CA

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Seaking 

You know, it JUST occured to me (blame it on being unfamiliar with the system)..

When looking at profiler, on the left side it says "firewire" and when you click on it, the right side shows "FW800" and maximum speed.. but there is no mention of FW400 at all.. HEy wait a tic.. that's the issue at hand. I haven't been able to attach anything to the FW800 port for lack of cables.. If I surmise this properly, when you open profiler and click on 'firewire', should you not see BOTH a line saying FW800 AND FW400, indicating both ports?

No I think System Profiler is reporting correctly. I'm pretty sure that's how it reports on my G5, and I know my Firewire ports are working. There is only one Firewire bus, and its max speed is 800mb.

[Seaking]

i just dropped off the iMac to the shop for 'repairs' under warranty. However, I did make it clear to them that I did spend big money for a working iMac I expect a working iMac out of the box. I had to go to the other shop across the city as the shop (same small chain) where I bought it from doesn't do repairs, the mac expert is across town. However, speaking with him on the phone this morning left me feeling that at least 'someone' knows what they are talking about over there and he assured me he would give it priority attention to get it back to me in 100% working condition to make me a 'believer in macs'.

However, when I was able to get over there during lunch hour, the individual was out and his co-workers took the iMac in and did up the paper work.. Thank croid the other guy I spoke to knew what he was talking about because those two clowns certainly didn't! When they asked what the work order was for, I responded "dead FW400 port".. they looked at me and said "Macs only come with one FW800 port, I must be mistaken".. Uh huh.. Needless to say my response back was less than kinder that they should at least give me the impression that they were clueless and not say anything to confirm that suspicion.. (shakes head in disgust).. I have to say I have less than warm fuzzy feelings about this whole buying a mac to replace a PC ordeal. Its been nothing but a 3 ring circus thus far. The only bright side of it was to meet learned individuals online like you gents. I do thank you for your patience and helpfulness.

Hopefully the repaired iMac comes back within a few days and not weeks. I'll be giving them a week.. then raise a lot of noise.. and then I'm gonna hunt down that mac vs PC "mac geek" and give him a wedgie..

Originally Posted by MacPino 

(disclaimer: things might be different in Canada)

I would just go back and ask politely/demand a different one.

You bought a completely new iMac only a few days ago, and an (important) aspect of it doesn't work. That's what I call a DOA (dead on arrival). Because it likely never worked in the first place, they should replace it. It's not my problem they have a system in place for registering or whatever.

If it worked for some time but dies on you, it's a warranty case. That's different.

In the Netherlands, stores would normally accept a line of thought like that, but as said before: NL is not CA

[Seaking]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

No I think System Profiler is reporting correctly. I'm pretty sure that's how it reports on my G5, and I know my Firewire ports are working. There is only one Firewire bus, and its max speed is 800mb.

Hmmm

Change of reply: Just heard back from the tech guy reporting back that there isn't anything wrong with the firewire port what so ever, mind you he only tested it by hooking up a MBP via firewire to it.. I'll be going over there tomorrow with my DVD drive and video cameras to see if HE can get them to work.

And yes, he DID confirm that yes, it is ONE FW800 BUS shared between the FW800 and FW400 port, so that as soon as you hook up a FW400 device to the ports the whole thing drops down to FW400 speeds.

Still.. annoying can't get my FW peripherals to be seen by the system like this.. works on any of the PCs in the house, new or old.. Anyway, I'll let you know what new discoveries after he has a look at it tomorrow with the vid-camera

[MacPino]

One more question: Do your camera (and HD) work on your MBP? That would give you an extra edge:

You've got devices working on an almost identical mac (sic). They don't work on your new iMac. new iMac is broken. simple logic.

About being a mac user: I've been one since the late os 8 days ('98): It has it's ups and downs, don't let anyone tell you macs are perfect, they aren't. they're great, they're (arguably) better dan pc's, but they're not perfect.
Don't think I wasn't mad at apple when my two week old MacBook had to be replaced, or when I had to wait two extra months for dutch language updates in y'olde os9 days.
Especially Apple (as a company) has it's faults. The whole ecosystem, however, is great.

[Seaking]

Hi MacPino.. don't get me wrong, it's that I am a bitter pissed off I hate Macs because of this little problem, its more that everytime I see those Pc vs Mac tv commercials I want to choke out the geek. All the commercial do is show you what is so horribly wrong with the PC (vista etc) but yet they don't say ANYTHING about the Mac.. except make fun of PC. Weird.. shyte advertising gimmick.. Yeah OK I'm bitter because I made the switch and have those 'regret pangs' already, for now.

Anyway, getting back to the issue at hand with the FW thing. I did hook my video camera to my daughter's new MBP and hmm it works on that.. took it to the shop this morning as buddy was verrrrry confident that there is nothing wrong with the iMac what so ever cause he did hook up a MBP to it.. but alas, no camera - nuttin. I suggested I hook it up to another iMac in the shop but he didn't balk at it, but brought another MBP out and yep sure enough, it worked on that too.. So with egg on his face he suggested that he'll wipe the HDD and reinstall the OS (leopard) and see if THAT makes any difference.

And he was advised to make sure there is another new iMac ready to go home with me if all that fails cause you know, I paid big bucks for an iMac (not to mention the MBP 17") and I expect a serviceable iMac.. not one that has to be in the shop more than it's been on my desk.. Too much to ask for? not really.. If Apple is going to hype these nice pretty machines with dumb commercials, they had better pony up with the downfall.

In retrospect, those Mac Pros are looking nice.. ; ) But then again.. one problem at a time.. sigh..

Hopefully I will be able to go for a 2nd round of testing tonight or tomorrow morning and ALL will be back to 100% the way it should have been, right out of the box.

Oh dear, this broke out into a mild rant, didn't it.. my bad.

Won't happen again.. much.

Originally Posted by MacPino 

One more question: Do your camera (and HD) work on your MBP? That would give you an extra edge:

You've got devices working on an almost identical mac (sic). They don't work on your new iMac. new iMac is broken. simple logic.

About being a mac user: I've been one since the late os 8 days ('98): It has it's ups and downs, don't let anyone tell you macs are perfect, they aren't. they're great, they're (arguably) better dan pc's, but they're not perfect.
Don't think I wasn't mad at apple when my two week old MacBook had to be replaced, or when I had to wait two extra months for dutch language updates in y'olde os9 days.
Especially Apple (as a company) has it's faults. The whole ecosystem, however, is great.

[analogika]

The first test our guys do is to boot the machine in question from an external drive with a known good system.

Have you tried Vidi? Vidi 0.4.7 - MacUpdate

[Seaking]

Hi Anag, sorry but no, didn't have a chance to get to this message to try it out.. The iMac was in the shop for a couple of days where the mac expert there tried everything to make the iMac see my video camera and we discovered a lot of things about this machine.. There seems to be a serious problem with all the newer intel based iMacs seeing my DVC30 video camera as we tested it against a couple of other same type iMacs... But to make sure, we hooked the camera to all the other floor products being MBP, older gen iMacs, Mac Pros, etc etc and they all loved the DVC30, bringing it up right away without even having to try anything.. So, the problem lies with the Intel Based iMAcs having a weird FW problem. Now I'm sure that after a ton of complaints filter back to Apple there will be a firmware, software or recall? to rectify this FW problem but I wasn't going to wait months (years) to find out. I purchased this iMac solely for video editing and it simply isn't suited for the task what so ever..

So in short, the aluminum Intel Based iMacs have a real FW problem. Before purchasing one for video editing, take your camera in to the shop as test it there, instead of going through I just went through.. (but I've met some nice people in the meantime

Luckily the tech is also the manager and made me a sweet deal on a new Mac Pro Quad.266, 4G mem and 1Tb Raid10 system with extra goodies which I will pick up next week. He was so concerned that I not give up on the mac, that he wanted me to be a happy customer. And yes, what a deal and what a machine. Gotta like it.. and in retrospect, this should have been what I should have gotten into instead of the iMac but I didn't appreciate it until after so much research this past week on Macs (which I thought I did enough of prior to the iMac purchase)

So the iMac is gone and now awaiting the Mac Pro. I'll be seeing some of you over in the other Forum later.

Cheers and thanks to all who offered advice and suggestions.

Originally Posted by analogika 

The first test our guys do is to boot the machine in question from an external drive with a known good system.
Have you tried Vidi? Vidi 0.4.7 - MacUpdate