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Help with IMAP
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jeff k
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Aug 14, 2014, 12:57 AM
 
I'M Finally going to dive into IMAP 100%. I'm a pop guy for 12 years or so with Entourage and Outlook 2011 for mac.

I've tried IMAP before and always had issues, but now I have to do it as I'm using the laptop more and getting my first iphone.

Questions: with pop, all my folders reside on the desktop, unless I move my identity to the laptop for vacations. With imap, what happens to all my folders? Where do they live?

2) With contacts I think I remember from trying imap before that Outlook cannot really add new contacts on the fly like Apple Mail can? When I get my first iphone I want to be able to add contacts and have the update across devices from the cloud. Can only Mail to this seamlessly. If so then maybe I'll finally bail on Outlook. Thanks
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 14, 2014, 12:59 PM
 
(1) That depends, because with IMAP you have server-stored and local folders. For simplicity, I assume you will have an iCloud IMAP account and use Mail. On the left when you scroll down, you first have your Inboxes, VIPs, Flagged, etc. Then Smart Mailboxes, On My Mac mailboxes (folders) and iCloud mailboxes (folders). When you press + on the bottom-left to create a new folder, you're asked where it should reside in the pop-up above. You can choose local folders and IMAP folders.

If you want to sync mailboxes across machines, you should move your mails from the local onto a server-side mailbox, e. g. by creating a new mailbox on your iCloud account, say business. Then you can move any mail (i. e. not just mail you've received on your iCloud account) to this mailbox. Special mailboxes such as Sent are treated slightly differently. If you want to use an IMAP mailbox for sent mails, select the folder in the sidebar and choose Mailbox > Use This Mailbox As > Sent from the menu. Rinse and repeat for things like Trash.

(2) I don't use Outlook, so I can't help you. But if all these issues are fixed by moving to Mail, why don't you move to Mail?
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jeff k  (op)
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Aug 15, 2014, 12:31 PM
 
Ok Oreo, did not understand that much since I am on Outlook. But lets start with Mail, and if I use Mail one day.

Do both the contacts and folders, change on the fly, and sync across all devices if you use iphone, laptop, desktop, even tablet? (in fact, is mail even on an iphone or tablet?)

i.e. if you add, subtract, delete folders, and/ or contacts. thanks.

thanks.
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 15, 2014, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
Ok Oreo, did not understand that much since I am on Outlook. But lets start with Mail, and if I use Mail one day.
Outlook also supports IMAP, but since I don't use it, I can't give you step-by-step directions. However, anything I write about IMAP also applies to Outlook.
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
Do both the contacts and folders, change on the fly, and sync across all devices if you use iphone, laptop, desktop, even tablet? (in fact, is mail even on an iphone or tablet?)
Contacts are synced anyway if you use OS X's Address Book and Apple devices, for instance. Regarding mail folders, only folders in the IMAP server are synced, local folders are not. And yes, that includes any device whose mail client supports IMAP, e. g. an iPhone, an iPad or Android devices. Everything is kept in sync.
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jeff k  (op)
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Aug 15, 2014, 12:56 PM
 
Thanks Oreo, as a moderator know this site still makes me log in on every post, very draining. Macnn used to not do that a few years ago, cookies are in place. only this site does this.

Anyway, thanks for helping and bear with me on this hairy ordeal, hopefully some Outlook folks and jump in here.

I'm thinking of going to Mail, even though I'm totally comfortable and happy with Outlook for many years, because, and hopefully others will confirm: Outlook is a disaster for doing everything we are discussing without a paid, professional, expensive business account.

So if anyone else an also help here:

1) I did try to once import all my folders into Mail (about 3 years ago), and Mail completely choked and crashed every time I tried after about 25 folders ( I have 600 folders). Will I have the same experience today?
2) Am I correct? Outlook does not sync contacts well as Mail does? and I should move to Mail?
3) All my hundreds of folders are on POP, as I've only been on POP for 10 years. What do I do? (being that I want to be now IMAP.
4) Same question with Contacts, If I should go to Mail, will I have issues getting all my contact to import to Mail perfectly? THANKS!
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 15, 2014, 01:59 PM
 
[QUOTE=jeff k;4287662]Thanks Oreo, as a moderator know this site still makes me log in on every post, very draining. Macnn used to not do that a few years ago, cookies are in place. only this site does this.

Anyway, thanks for helping and bear with me on this hairy ordeal, hopefully some Outlook folks and jump in here.

I'm thinking of going to Mail, even though I'm totally comfortable and happy with Outlook for many years, because, and hopefully others will confirm: Outlook is a disaster for doing everything we are discussing without a paid, professional, expensive business account.

So if anyone else an also help here:

Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
1) I did try to once import all my folders into Mail (about 3 years ago), and Mail completely choked and crashed every time I tried after about 25 folders ( I have 600 folders). Will I have the same experience today?
I have helped people migrate, but in my experience, Outlook isn't very friendly to migration. In comparison, you can export mailboxes in Mail in a variety of commonly understood formats.
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
2) Am I correct? Outlook does not sync contacts well as Mail does? and I should move to Mail?
Personally, I disliked Entourage and I dislike Outlook, I find the UI to be hideous. But that's my preference, and if you're happy, I wouldn't advise you to move just based on my preference. Objectively speaking, Microsoft Office tries to have commonalities across platforms -- which is why it has partly replicated the ribbon interface and uses its own proprietary data formats. Microsoft eschews platform standards (e. g. OS X's Address Book) for cross-plattform compatibility.

In the past, the best bet to move from Entourage/Outlook was to do that with the help of a utility. I'm not sure if that's still true, but given that Microsoft hasn't shown any inclination to help people move away from their products, I guess it still is. Just on the off-chance, have you tried these instructions?
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
3) All my hundreds of folders are on POP, as I've only been on POP for 10 years. What do I do? (being that I want to be now IMAP.
No, your folders are not »on POP«, they are all local folders. POP doesn't know anything about folders. All you need to do is create folders on your IMAP account and start moving mails. That's it. Note that moving a lot of mails takes a lot of time and you should watch your mailbox quota so that you don't exceed the maximum storage capacity.
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
4) Same question with Contacts, If I should go to Mail, will I have issues getting all my contact to import to Mail perfectly? THANKS!
You don't import your contacts to Mail, but Address Book. I don't think you'll have any real issues making the switch here.

I would really like to dig deeper and help you out, but unfortunately, I can no longer register Outlook after my update. It dismisses my registration key.
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jeff k  (op)
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Aug 15, 2014, 07:23 PM
 
Thanks Oreo, still have to log in for each reply.

Ok good info. I'm still not sure I need to switch to Mail, I'll wait till more Outlook people jump in here, hopefully.

What is the quota? You Imap, there are limits on folders and folders and email within folders?

Also, I don't think Outlook Contacts is tied to address book. In fact, where is address book, I don't see in in my applications folder.
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 15, 2014, 08:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
What is the quota? You Imap, there are limits on folders and folders and email within folders?
A quota is just a storage limit set by your e-mail provider. Some, like GMail are very generous and give you 15 GB, Apple gives you 5 GB, but there are other services which give you much less. Note that these 15 or 5 GB are shared across all of your Google and Apple services. There are also other quota (e. g. maximum number of e-mails you can send or receive per day), but these are usually so generous that they are utterly irrelevant.
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
Also, I don't think Outlook Contacts is tied to address book. In fact, where is address book, I don't see in in my applications folder.
No, it's not, but you can export Outlook contacts to Address Book Contacts (which you can find in /Applications/). (Address Book was renamed Contacts, but I still refer to it by the old name, sorry about the confusion.)
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jeff k  (op)
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Aug 15, 2014, 09:01 PM
 
Thanks O,
well I think the Outlook identity is 3GB so 5GB would hold all those folders on IMap? Kind of pointless to only have the folders on one place if then you want to refer to them at the other place right? Agree?

I would be super tedious to create all those folders from scratch..

As I remember, Outlook unlike Mail does not have the ability to deal with contact with Imap? If it did then mabye I would not need to move to Mail..??
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 16, 2014, 01:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
well I think the Outlook identity is 3GB so 5GB would hold all those folders on IMap? Kind of pointless to only have the folders on one place if then you want to refer to them at the other place right? Agree?
I don't know what your quota is, as I said, that depends on your e-mail provider. As for storing all mail? No, you don't necessarily need to keep all mail on your IMAP server, many people I know move old mails, say, 5 years and older, off the server. It also speeds up syncing.
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
I would be super tedious to create all those folders from scratch..
You don't need to recreate all folders, only the ones you need. By the way, in Mail.app you can just move folder using drag & drop (pick up the folder/mailbox and move it down to the IMAP account, that's it). Of course, you can select several folders at once. There is no reason to create a folder on IMAP, move all mails manually and delete the empty folder. It's a Mac

So if you have enough space, moving the mails will take a few seconds. Note that it will take quite a while for your mail to sync to the server.
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
As I remember, Outlook unlike Mail does not have the ability to deal with contact with Imap? If it did then mabye I would not need to move to Mail..??
Contacts are not synced via IMAP, they are synced via iCloud, Exchange and Google (as well as a few other services). So if you have a gmail account, Contacts can sync all your contacts via GMail -- if you want (maybe you don't want to give Google all that data …). So if you use Contacts and one of the services mentioned above, it'll sync just fine.

Microsoft has chosen not to implement the industry standard CalDAV that iCloud uses. Nor did they choose to implement support for OS X's Contacts. So I don't think you'll be able to sync your Outlook contacts across devices. Only if you use an Exchange-based e-mail account in Outlook instead of IMAP can you sync contacts across devices. Sorry.
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jeff k  (op)
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Aug 16, 2014, 03:57 PM
 
Thanks Oreo, ok you confirmed what my research told me a few years ago, and I gave up and just stayed with Outlook (easy) and stayed with POP.

Now I want to enter the 21st century like everyone else an be mobile fully, and do not want to pay/ trust an exchange service.

So I will finally go to Mail, I think you are correct. I'm used to having my zillion folders at my fingertips for reference, but I'll just try to import them into Mail, and if they don't all move there so be it. Just use Outlook as an archive container, and start over with Mail folder wise. You concur?

That said what do I do now? Just make sure I have the most current Mail on both desktop and laptop, try an import, then manually add the main email accounts if the import did not work, test, be with Mail and close shop on Outlook.

Critical thing: How do I export contacts from Outlook to Apple contacts? I hope that can be done.
Basically I need clear out Apples contacts as what's in there was frozen in time a couple of years ago, and the real updated contacts are in Outlook.
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 16, 2014, 05:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
So I will finally go to Mail, I think you are correct. I'm used to having my zillion folders at my fingertips for reference, but I'll just try to import them into Mail, and if they don't all move there so be it. Just use Outlook as an archive container, and start over with Mail folder wise. You concur?
How about this: you add the IMAP account to both, Outlook and Mail, and you start small. This way you can still go back if you wanted to, but you could just continue working in Outlook if you prefer. On the other hand, if you never happen to launch Outlook again, then so be it.
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
That said what do I do now? Just make sure I have the most current Mail on both desktop and laptop, try an import, then manually add the main email accounts if the import did not work, test, be with Mail and close shop on Outlook.
Apple's Mail updates with OS X. So just make sure you're on the latest version and that's that. You will have to add the IMAP mail account, of course. You could go with an iCloud account (in case you're still looking for a free service).
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
Critical thing: How do I export contacts from Outlook to Apple contacts?
You select all contacts and export it as a vcard. You can import the vcard into Contacts.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
jeff k  (op)
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Aug 16, 2014, 05:34 PM
 
Thanks Oreo, I see Outlook does an export process, you check a bunch of things and do an export, and it's an .olm file whatever that is. So maybe you don't even bother updating Macs contacts, Just import this olm into Mail. Would you import into both the laptop and desktop or just one or the other?

If I go Imap, then those contacts will see each other (laptop / desktop)

Ah, you were saying contacts update via the cloud, so maybe then don't import contacts into mail? Just get them into Mac's contacts and include that for my icloud account? Yes I have an icloud account, only used it for Calendar so far.
     
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Aug 16, 2014, 07:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
Thanks Oreo, I see Outlook does an export process, you check a bunch of things and do an export, and it's an .olm file whatever that is.
.olm is a proprietary Microsoft file format, Contacts won't be able to read it. Try Alternative Step 1 to export everything in vCard format. Do it on one computer first, iCloud (once it is enabled) should take care of the rest. If your data in OS X address book (in the Contacts app) is stale, I'd delete it before import.
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
If I go Imap, then those contacts will see each other (laptop / desktop)
No, contacts are synced via iCloud, meaning you need to sign in on both machines using the same Apple ID and enable contact syncing in the iCloud panel of the system preferences. You don't import contacts into Mail, but Contacts.
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
Ah, you were saying contacts update via the cloud, so maybe then don't import contacts into mail? Just get them into Mac's contacts and include that for my icloud account? Yes I have an icloud account, only used it for Calendar so far.
You have to enable Contact sharing in the iCloud pane of the System Prefs.
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jeff k  (op)
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Aug 18, 2014, 01:21 AM
 
Thanks O,
is there an option for V format in Outlook? Remember, the contacts in Outlook are the ones that are up to date, so I have to get them out of Outlook.

Also, help me get my head around contacts and Mail.
With Outlook, there is a section called contacts. It has nothing to do with Mac Contacts.

With Mail, II get the impression that it somehow pulling contacts from Mac's Contacts on the fly.
Is this correct? And further, pulling it from the cloud.

And it's also hard for me to get my head around, when I get my first smartphone (iphone), what happens when someone calls me and I can add them to contacts and that will be integrated with Mail.

This is the core why I'm moving out of Outlook.
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 18, 2014, 09:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
is there an option for V format in Outlook? Remember, the contacts in Outlook are the ones that are up to date, so I have to get them out of Outlook.
I have already linked to step-by-step instructions in my previous post.
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
With Outlook, there is a section called contacts. It has nothing to do with Mac Contacts.
Nope, they have nothing to do with one another.
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
With Mail, II get the impression that it somehow pulling contacts from Mac's Contacts on the fly.
Is this correct? And further, pulling it from the cloud.
Contacts is a service of OS X, any app (which asks the user for permission) can access Contacts. One such app is mail, and in principle, Microsoft can add support for Contacts to its next version of Outlook. But don't hold your breath. And it's synced over iCloud (if you enable contact syncing).
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
And it's also hard for me to get my head around, when I get my first smartphone (iphone), what happens when someone calls me and I can add them to contacts and that will be integrated with Mail.
You worry too much. Enable iCloud syncing for contacts, calendars and everything else you want and it'll just work. It'll just sync. Contacts you add on one device will appear on all of your other devices.
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jeff k  (op)
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Aug 18, 2014, 09:56 PM
 
PS, I tried to launch Mail, it ask for ilcould useer/ pass, I put that in, click ok,and app closes! And this goes in a circle, tried 2x.

Thanks O for bearing with me, we are almost there!
( Last edited by jeff k; Aug 18, 2014 at 11:05 PM. )
     
badidea
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Aug 19, 2014, 08:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by jeff k View Post
PS, I tried to launch Mail, it ask for ilcould useer/ pass, I put that in, click ok,and app closes! And this goes in a circle, tried 2x.

Thanks O for bearing with me, we are almost there!
Try it more often than 2x! 3x should be enough ... happened to me as well and I think it's because of the .mac, .me and .icloud accounts!
***
     
jeff k  (op)
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Aug 19, 2014, 12:25 PM
 
Thanks B, did not understand that. I'm locked out, and it's a loop, I enter user / pass and then Mail quits.

Also, anyone have other options to get Contacts from Outlook Mac 2011 to Mail. That link has a dropdown that only list Windows software. thanks.
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 19, 2014, 05:43 PM
 
Sorry, I had missed that the instructions are for the Windows version of Outlook. What happens when you drag and drop contacts into an email. That should create a vCard file. Then send it to your new mail address.
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jeff k  (op)
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Aug 19, 2014, 11:35 PM
 
Thanks O, I don't know what that means to drag and drop and email. Remember my contacts are pretty complicated, they have multiple emails, phone numbers, and lots of notes in the notes section. Would that work? Do I have to repeat it 600 times?

Anyway, I can't start anything because of the Mail issue described.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 20, 2014, 07:07 PM
 
Both Mail and Outlook are usually fine when it comes to creating and syncing IMAP folders.
Mail is good at importing and exporting folders too but make sure you get them in the right places first time because when it comes to larger folders Mail will time out if you try to move them.

I had a customer who had an IMAP folder for every work day of the year for five years and his IMAP server blew a hard drive. Had to rebuild those folders one by one because it would time out at random points when you tried to move a whole folder, particularly one with subfolders. Took me 12 hours non stop work.

You can very easily get contacts from Outlook 2011 into Apple Contacts. Command-J will attach any highlighted Outlook contacts to an email as an attachment in vcard format. The attachment can be dragged onto your desktop and from there dragged into Contacts. Unfortunately Outlook will create a separate vcard file for each contact you highlight. You might find it easier to go the second way which is to choose Export from the File menu then choose the "Contacts to a list (tab delimited text)" option. This will generate a single .txt file which you can then import into the Apple Contacts app using Command-O. It will then alls you to set or customise the variables for you cards (Probably not required unless they have lots of extra information or they were previously imported from another system) and you can then preview the cards to make sure everything is in the right place before you hit the import button.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 20, 2014, 07:09 PM
 
Do you have separate mail folders for each contact?

You can do that with smart mailboxes in Apple Mail, or be a lazy ******* like me and just use the search filter. I don't use mail folders at all.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
jeff k  (op)
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Aug 21, 2014, 12:31 PM
 
Thanks Waring,
I heard of those ideas for importing contacts and will try, I hope the tab delimited includes everything!

Folders, not sure there is any way to get them into imap folders all ok, will see...I will not do hundreds of folders manually, take months!

First, I cannot even open Mail, I launch, I enter my icloud user pass, and then it quits.
     
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Aug 24, 2014, 09:00 AM
 
Sounds like there's something seriously borked in your Mail installation, and it's time to reinstall Mail... I do not know how to do that for just Mail, but it should be a workable fix.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
jeff k  (op)
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Aug 24, 2014, 06:19 PM
 
MADE A genius bar apt. All I needed to do was click "other", not icloud and set up the email accounts...
     
ghporter
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Aug 25, 2014, 07:36 AM
 
So the Mail problem was because of Apple's "anti-intuitive" options for iCloud-based mail accounts?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
jeff k  (op)
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Aug 25, 2014, 04:11 PM
 
G, I totally agree. To the layman like me, I have a lot of things going on with the cloud, so I thought to choose that.

But in reality I was supposed to choose other, because, in fact, I'm using a 3rd party hoster.

I don't think the cloud could host my email accounts correct? The email was created and has a url in the name of it, which is hosted by a company I've been with for awhile.
     
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Aug 26, 2014, 07:26 AM
 
"The" cloud and "iCloud" are easy to confuse. But Mail does other goofy stuff sometimes too. Adding accounts to Mail usually goes the way it looks like it should go, but sometimes Mail will mess up with a GMail account, or skip some important bit like special ports and the setup just fails.

Trying to make account setup simple for users is a good thing, but taking all the variations of server and account setup into account is complex; it's hard to get it right and still make it simple to use. So far in my experience, Mail gets about 75% on "it just works."

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
jeff k  (op)
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Aug 26, 2014, 03:29 PM
 
GH, IT'S on another thread, but with contacts, I added 600 to laptop and the desktop synced to 444, so I'm just going to clear the desktop and add the 600 there. But what worried me now is that P, moderator says that contacts will merge contacts, which I would never want. Any ideas on that? Very ominous issue. Can I prevent that?

http://forums.macnn.com/82/applicati...y/#post4288806

What is icloud mailing? a competitor to gmail?
     
   
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