[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

There is also the best of both worlds.

I see more use of Serato out in the clubs than I do Final Scratch.

http://scratchlive.net/djs/

[starman]

I'd have to hear that to be sure it's worth the money. Jeez...

[IceEnclosure]

Serato? It plays your MP3s and you manipulate them on special vinyl. Sounds as brilliant as it.. sounds.

[analogika]

Same concept as Final Scratch, except the latter's endorsed by Richie Hawtin?

[IceEnclosure]

I dunno. Serato users:


45 KING > The King of the Beats

?UESTLOVE > The Roots drummer and DJ

A-SIDES > D&B Producer & DJ

A-TRAK > DMC, ITF and Vestax Champ

AFRIKA BAMBAATAA > Zulu Nation, Planet Rock

AKUFEN > Does things his way

AL3 > 2005 & 1998 National DJ Champion

ALLAN BANFORD > DJ / Producer / Remixer

DJ AM > The US Entertainment Industry's Premier DJ

BEAT JUNKIES > International beat phenomenon

BENI G > Mixologists

DJ BIJAL > Mr Everywhere

DJ BIZNIZZ > The En4cers!

BJOERN WILKE > Level Non Zero Records

DJ BOMBASTICO > Ghosttown DJs

BONOBO > It came from the sea

BOOZOO BAJOU > Dust My Broom

C2C > 4 x DMC Team World Champs

CAPITAL J > The Natural Born Killer

CUT KILLER > Pioneer of the French hip hop movement

CUTCANNIBALZ > Beatwars and Da Kid

DJ CXL > 2003 NZ DMC Champion

DAMON WILD > Rave Generator!

DAVE CLARKE

DAVE TARRIDA > Sativae Records

DJ DEBONAIR > Arena Rocking DJ - Producer - DJ for Country Super - Coming Soon!

DIPLO > Renaissance Man meets Bart Simpson down South

DJ EMPRESS > - Coming Soon!

DJ ENFERNO > Live Remix Project

EVIL EDDIE RICHARDS > Britan's godfather of house and techno

DJ FAB > Hip Hop Resistance Paris

FATBOY SLIM

FELIX DA HOUSECAT > One of the most creative artists in music today - Coming Soon!

DJ FLAME > Freesouls co-founder and Indonesian Club DJ

FUNKMASTER FLEX

DJ GERO > Double French DMC Champion

GROOVERIDER

HAUL & MASON > Four turntable beatdown

HEIKO LAUX > Kanzleramt Records

DJ I-DEE

IG CULTURE > New Sector Movements

ILL INSANITY > Rob Swift, Precision & Total Eclipse - Coming Soon!

DJ JAM > Snoop Dogg's & Dr. Dre's Official DJ

JAY DABHI > "Mumbai after dark"

JAZZY JAY > Def Jam founder, DMC DJ Hall of Fame

JAZZY JEFF > The Magnificent

JEFF MILLIGAN > Minimal Techno Producer

JEREMY P CAULFIELD > Dumb-Unit

JOHN TEJADA > Prolific Techno & House Producer

JUNIOR SANCHEZ > DJ/Producer/Remixer

JUST DIZLE > Le Champion

K-N-S > Founder of Diwrek Hit Entertainment

DJ KAI > Rising star of the New York house scene

KID FRESH > Lordz of Fitness

KILMORE > Incubus

KING BRITT > Vibrationoligist

KLUTE > Drum & Bass producer extraordinaire

KUTMASTA KURT > Dr. Dooom

L.E.S. > DJ / Producer - Nas's DJ

DJ LEN SWANN > Tech Mob, Revolution champ

MAKOTO > Good Looking, Human Elements

MARCO PASSARANI > the Finalfrontier

MARK DE CLIVE-LOWE > Broken-Beat Producer

DJ MARKY > Innerground Records from Brazil

MARTYN > Get the funk down

MAX GRAHAM > Producer, Composer, DJ

MISSILL > DJ/Graffiti Writer/Producer

MIXMASTER MIKE > Beastie Boys

MONK > Halluci-nation

NEIL ARMSTRONG > 5th Platoon

DJ NU-MARK > Plays on Sound

OLLIE TEEBA > The Herbaliser

PEANUT BUTTER WOLF > Stones Throw Records

PLASTICIAN > Terrorhythm Recordings

DJ POISON IVY > Queen Of Dirty South

PRINCE PAUL > Legendary Hip Hop Producer

QUANTIC > Tru Thoughts Records

DJ RECTANGLE > DMC Champ, battle record master

DJ RIZ > One half of Crooklyn Clan

ROB SWIFT > X-ecutioner, DMC East Coast champion

DJ ROCKID > 5 x Dutch DMC champ

RONI SIZE > Mercury Award Winner

SAM ROUANET > a.k.a. Reynold

SASHA > One of the World's Best DJs

SATOSHI TOMIIE > Saw Recordings

SCRAPE TACTICIANS > DJ / Turntablizm Crew

SHAWN TULSI > A mish-mash of funky house and dark disco

DJ SHORTEE > 'Queen of the Scratch World' - DJ Times

DJ SHORTY > - Coming Soon!

SIR-VERE > The face of NZ Hip Hop

DJ SKRIBBLE > Diversify your soul

DJ SOLOMON > DJ for the Golden State Warriors

DJ SPINBAD > Technical master

DJ SPINNA > Producer, DJ, Remixer

STEVE AOKI > Founder of Dim Mak Records

STRETCH ARMSTRONG > Plant Music

STRICTLY KEV > The public face of DJ Food

DJ SWIFT > French DMC Finalist

THE NEXTMEN > Motherf**king International Superstar DeeJays

DJ TOMEKK > Tomasz Kuklicz

DJ VADIM > The Art of Listening

DJ VAJRA > 4 Time DMC USA Finalist. 2002 WSTC world champion

DJ WOODY > 2X World Champ

YES KING > Adams.Rae.Productions

DJ YODA > No ordinary scratch DJ

Z-TRIP > Party-rocking DJ

[analogika]

Yes, I can read the website, too.

I'll repeat: They're pretty much the same concept, except that Final Scratch is endorsed by Richie Hawtin?

This was an indirect way of asking whether anybody can weigh in on the differences, not whether anybody can repost the e-penis from the web page.

[IceEnclosure]

I don't know the differences, I just know the DJs I go see are usually using Serato.

[- - e r i k - -]

Dude. I only linked to Final Scratch because they were FIRST.

[analogika]

And I only asked because - gasp! - I'm actually interested in the differences (Final Scratch is the only one I've encountered so far).

[- - e r i k - -]

Just goes to show that anything can start a holy war at the 'NN

[starman]

Vinyl was the only physical music medium to have growth in 2008. I'm looking for a solid link, this was mentioned on Twitter this morning.

EDIT: Not the link I was looking for, but a nice read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/fashion/31vinyl.html

[alligator]

I picked up a Project Debut III this year, and have loved getting into vinyl again. I used to have a few records when I was a kid, but that was in the 70's. My last album was U2, and before that, Guns & Roses. My wife's Chicago album also sounds good. I really enjoy listening to music this way.

[starman]

I just got "Appetite For Destruction" on vinyl the other day. Something's odd about the sound. I have to crank it few dB more than my other albums.

Found Yaz' "Upstairs At Eric's" and Joolz Holland's "Millionaire" this weekend.

I also picked up a Tool album. They do as much cool stuff with their vinyl as they do with their CDs. I'll have to take pics.

I stupidly didn't bid on NIN's "With Teeth" last week and wound up not getting it.

[starman]

Interview with Trent Reznor talking about how his assistant is getting into vinyl at the age of 26 (I think?). He likes it for the same reason I do - you sit WITH the music instead of listening to it in the background.

I think the vinyl part is at the 4:00 mark.

http://pinkisthenewblog.com/home/200...-trent-reznor/

[alligator]

The only thing I forgot about vinyl is that you can't leave it playing for very long. It seems like you get 15 minutes per side, at the most.

[andi*pandi]

22 min per side is what I remember. hence 90 min tapes could do one album per side.

[CreepDogg]

I love music. I love it so much I spent a lot of my younger years at bars and venues listening to live music. With the minor hearing damage from that, I can't tell the difference in sound, nor do I care. I just appreciate the convenience of being able to click on a song and hear it, and make playlists and shuffle when appropriate (and listen to sequence as the artist or playlist creator intended when appropriate). I also appreciate the convenience of being able to acquire new music easily and readily in the comfort of my home (or wherever I am...). I basically never by CDs, much less vinyl, anymore.

I'm old enough to remember when vinyl was the top game in town (8-tracks and cassettes notwithstanding), but I don't miss it at all. It's not like I don't get sentimental about such things either - I also love wine, and even though there are more and more good wines with screw cap bottles, I still love the cork - the sound it makes when the bottle opens, the smell of the cork and the wine on it, and the general 'pageantry' around it. But for some reason I've never felt the same way about vinyl. I am more of an 'album' listener than a 'singles' listener - but you don't need vinyl for that.

Originally Posted by starman 

...He likes it for the same reason I do - you sit WITH the music instead of listening to it in the background.

I can't see how this makes any sense. You can put a vinyl record on and listen in the background (as long as you flip it every 22 min or so). You can also sit WITH the music playing on an iMac. It has more to do with your intent and what you like to do with music than the medium.

All that said - to each his own! If anyone can hear the difference, or even if not, and has a preference - so be it! I just think some of the rationalizations people put on their preference are amusing.

[starman]

Originally Posted by alligator 

The only thing I forgot about vinyl is that you can't leave it playing for very long. It seems like you get 15 minutes per side, at the most.

Huh? No. 99% of the time it would fit on one side of a 90-minute tape, but some albums went over 45 minutes.

[starman]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

I can't see how this makes any sense. You can put a vinyl record on and listen in the background (as long as you flip it every 22 min or so). You can also sit WITH the music playing on an iMac. It has more to do with your intent and what you like to do with music than the medium.

All that said - to each his own! If anyone can hear the difference, or even if not, and has a preference - so be it! I just think some of the rationalizations people put on their preference are amusing.

You can't sit "with" music on an iMac. That's preposterous. Albums most likely come with lyrics, books, liner notes. When you buy music online, you get nothing except track numbers and MAYBE lyrics if you're lucky. You also have no connection with the music like you do when you buy it digitally. It's like this etherial stuff that makes music, but you don't really OWN it. It's been devolved into a file.

But if you think that rationalization is "amusing", so be it. Just remember what medium had a growth in 2008.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by starman 

You can't sit "with" music on an iMac. That's preposterous. Albums most likely come with lyrics, books, liner notes. When you buy music online, you get nothing except track numbers and MAYBE lyrics if you're lucky. You also have no connection with the music like you do when you buy it digitally. It's like this etherial stuff that makes music, but you don't really OWN it. It's been devolved into a file.

But if you think that rationalization is "amusing", so be it. Just remember what medium had a growth in 2008.

I didn't realize that sitting and reading lyrics and liner notes with a vinyl record playing in the background was 'sitting with the music'. Color me amused.

When I buy a digital track, I can play it at my leisure, just as I can with a vinyl record or CD. The act of listening to the music works pretty much the same. Trust me, I've had them all. If you have a preference for one vs. the other, that's great, but I think it's silly to relate everyone's ability to appreciate music with the medium on which it's presented.

[starman]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

I didn't realize that sitting and reading lyrics and liner notes with a vinyl record playing in the background was 'sitting with the music'. Color me amused.

When I buy a digital track, I can play it at my leisure, just as I can with a vinyl record or CD. The act of listening to the music works pretty much the same. Trust me, I've had them all. If you have a preference for one vs. the other, that's great, but I think it's silly to relate everyone's ability to appreciate music with the medium on which it's presented.

Why is it silly? Listening to a compressed-to-hell file on your Mac with sh*t speakers is supposed to be the same as sitting in a listening room with 4' speakers DESIGNED for listening to music?

Um, if that's what you think is equal, well, color ME amused.

[alligator]

What I enjoy about vinyl that I don't get with my iPod is the tactile feedback. Pulling out the record, cleaning it, carefully placing the needle on it, and having to flip it over is a very hands-on process. On the other hand, one click in iTunes gets me a month of music without stopping. That's nice, but not as fun. I enjoy both for different reasons.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by starman 

Why is it silly? Listening to a compressed-to-hell file on your Mac with sh*t speakers is supposed to be the same as sitting in a listening room with 4' speakers DESIGNED for listening to music?

Um, if that's what you think is equal, well, color ME amused.

My soundsticks work just fine, thank you very much. Are they the best speakers in the world? No. But I can clearly tell, even on an iTunes file, that a guitar is a guitar, drums are drums, and I can hear the timbre of a voice and clearly hear what's going on in a piece of music. I'm telling you - that's good enough for me. I don't need $40K reference amps and speakers with gold-plated cables to enjoy a piece of music. If you can hear the difference and it's worth it to you - great! But it doesn't mean you appreciate a piece of music any more than I do.

I have a friend that has all that - carefully chosen audiophile equipment. Separate amp and pre-amp, special cables, super-expensive speakers, etc. I think he spent $1500 on the POWER STRIP. I've heard music on his system and my reaction was 'meh'. He loves it and can hear a difference for him - that's great! I think I'm lucky I can get by with much cheaper equipment that allows me to enjoy the music just as much.

And anyway, I thought this was about vinyl, not about speakers. This is why watching the rationalizations gets amusing.

[fhoubi]

Funny my "sound-system" is mostly USA branded: WTRP turntable, Grado pick-up, original RCA and Western Electric tubes WE310A & 300B from the fourties to drive 2 self-build monoblock amplifiers 4 Watt each f.e..

I am only p!ssed because I only discovered last month my vinyl of Johnny Cash's American IV has a couple more songs than the CD I lazily listened so far...

And the re-issues of the RCA Living Stereo's on vinyl from appr. a decade are still imcomparable.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

My soundsticks work just fine, thank you very much. Are they the best speakers in the world? No. But I can clearly tell, even on an iTunes file, that a guitar is a guitar, drums are drums, and I can hear the timbre of a voice and clearly hear what's going on in a piece of music. I'm telling you - that's good enough for me. I don't need $40K reference amps and speakers with gold-plated cables to enjoy a piece of music. If you can hear the difference and it's worth it to you - great! But it doesn't mean you appreciate a piece of music any more than I do.

I have a friend that has all that - carefully chosen audiophile equipment. Separate amp and pre-amp, special cables, super-expensive speakers, etc. I think he spent $1500 on the POWER STRIP. I've heard music on his system and my reaction was 'meh'. He loves it and can hear a difference for him - that's great! I think I'm lucky I can get by with much cheaper equipment that allows me to enjoy the music just as much.

And anyway, I thought this was about vinyl, not about speakers. This is why watching the rationalizations gets amusing.

Get the **** out of this thread and troll somewhere else.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by fhoubi 

And the re-issues of the RCA Living Stereo's on vinyl from appr. a decade are still imcomparable.

And even they don't compare to the original first pressings...oh boy.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

22 min per side is what I remember. hence 90 min tapes could do one album per side.

Used to be 15 minutes per LP side. Then, mastering engines started varying the distance between the grooves depending on the waveform (i.e. louder passages had more widely-spaced grooves). This got around twenty to twenty-five minutes per side. Standard album length was around 42 minutes for a couple of decades.

They pushed capacity to about 30 minutes per side, but that comes noticeably at the expense of sound quality - reduced dynamics and interference from adjacent grooves.

[fhoubi]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

And even they don't compare to the original first pressings...oh boy.

According to Bernie Grundman, the mastering genius: (Image Hifi 3/95 eleven pages) not always. But the original tapes still kick butt to the original pressings.

"Wir wollen, verdammt noch mal, nicht, dass unsere Umschnitte wie die Original-LPs klingen. Wir orientieren uns am Masterband und nicht am Vinyl."

"Solange auf den Tapes viel mehr Information drauf ist als auf LP, halte ich das Gerede von Bandverschleiss fuer ausgemachten Bullshit."

[zro]

I absolutely love the sound on NoMeansNo's Small Parts Isolated And Destroyed.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by fhoubi 

According to Bernie Grundman, the mastering genius: (Image Hifi 3/95 eleven pages) not always. But the original tapes still kick butt to the original pressings.

"Wir wollen, verdammt noch mal, nicht, dass unsere Umschnitte wie die Original-LPs klingen. Wir orientieren uns am Masterband und nicht am Vinyl."

"Solange auf den Tapes viel mehr Information drauf ist als auf LP, halte ich das Gerede von Bandverschleiss fuer ausgemachten Bullshit."

Makes sense. I didn't realize that the pressings fell so short of what might be possible - I'd *really* love to hear what's there: the original Living Stereos are

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

My soundsticks work just fine, thank you very much.

At his point I stopped reading.

You really should listen to a fine pressing on a well designed system, you'd never look at music the same way again.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

At his point I stopped reading.

You really should listen to a fine pressing on a well designed system, you'd never look at music the same way again.

before that, he wrote this, which basically tells you to ignore him:

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

I love music. I love it so much I spent a lot of my younger years at bars and venues listening to live music. With the minor hearing damage from that, I can't tell the difference in sound, nor do I care.

Following that with everything he wrote then is simply trolling.

My post may have come off as harsh, and perhaps even deserved the infraction somebody conferred upon me for it, but really, it's just compressing a curt response to three posts of inflammatory bullshit into a single line.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

My post may have come off as harsh, and perhaps even deserved the infraction somebody conferred upon me for it, but really, it's just compressing a curt response to three posts of inflammatory bullshit into a single line.

Bah, I see. Oh well, some people can't be reached.


Oh, I almost forgot! I received a Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood and a Dynavector 17D3 for Christmas. The differences between the two are huge, so I'll have quite a bit of listening to do for some time. The girls knew I've been looking at new carts, seems they read my audio notes and talked to some of my audiophile buddies behind my back.

Eventually I will get around to a "premium" cart, probably a XV-1s or a ZYX UNIverse. No rush though.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Get the **** out of this thread and troll somewhere else.

Thanks for confirming my point.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

Thanks for confirming my point.

If a deaf guy says that there's no difference, and that anybody who can hear a difference is fooling themselves and wasting money, that's kind of a self-confirming point.

Don't flatter me: Your tautological universe doesn't need me. Or reality, for that matter.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

If a deaf guy says that there's no difference, and that anybody who can hear a difference is fooling themselves and wasting money, that's kind of a self-confirming point.

Don't flatter me: Your tautological universe doesn't need me. Or reality, for that matter.

WTF are you talking about? If you actually read my posts, instead of thumping your chest and claiming you can't get past the first sentence, you'd see I said that I can't tell the difference, but if you can, great! What I challenged was the notion that vinyl listeners must somehow be more critical listeners than others. If that's too much for you to handle, well, then, you're just confirming my point. Just an observation, not flattery.

The fact that you read something into my post that wasn't there tells me that deep down, you have some serious insecurities about your own position on the matter. Maybe you can't tell the difference and are just a poseur wanker who likes to impress others with your BS. Or maybe you can tell a difference and think that somehow makes you better than others who can't. Either way, I don't give a toss.

[Cold Warrior]

Let's try to stay on track here everyone. Some stuff can go to PM if needed.

[BadKosh]

ClearAudio! OOOOOOOO!! AAAAAHHHHH!!

How is it?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

ClearAudio! OOOOOOOO!! AAAAAHHHHH!!

How is it?

Don't know yet. I've been playing with the Dynavector.

[fhoubi]

Spheric you got a PM.

[Shaddim]

Gotta love those long listening sessions.

I did have one of "those" moments, though, with a Classic Records 200g pressing of Quadrophenia. You know, when the hairs on your arms and neck stand on end? You can feel the rain on your skin and you resonate with the thunder, your body pulses. Would have sworn I was somewhere else. Just, damn.

[malvolio]

I would love to have a really high-quality system including an audiophile-grade turntable, but it ain't economically feasible. So I settle for occasionally dusting off my almost 30-year-old components to listen to some tasty vinyl.
And yes, even on those aging warhorses, I can tell the difference.
After all, sound waves are not digital...

[Phileas]

^ Nothing at all wrong with old, well kept, equipment.

[BadKosh]

Agreed!

My Computer system is a Crown IC150a preamp and D150a poweramp on a pair of JBL 4311B monitors.
My Hobby room system is a DB Systems preamp and poweramp on a pair of JBL 4312 monitors, and a Roku Internet tuner.
My "Big System is a DB Systems preamp,Crown PSA-2 Poweramp, and two pairs of KEF 104aB monitors, Sony 55" Wega SXRD screen, Powerbook 12" as iToons control. Occasionally, a Fons CQ-30 with SME Arm and Grace F9e Super will be hooked up.
I don't think ANY part of my AUDIO equipment is younger than 20 years. !!

[Spheric Harlot]

You might want to invest in a D/A stage for that PowerBook, though - assuming that you're currently using the minijack out.

[starman]

http://www.geekfridge.com/?p=217