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With a sword, the crossguard is in the same plane as the cutting edge of the blade.
Lightsabers don't have a cutting edge along a single plane. They'll cut any which way.
Similar to the point I'm making. It's always bugged me that SW depicts their battles as clumsy two-handed affairs with ancient/basic technique; the usage and technique would be completely different for an actual lightsabre which has a 360-degree cutting plane, allowing for far more clever feints and ripostes.
Of course, as I mentioned claymores/broadswords went extinct 500 years ago because they were so completely unwieldy and impractical - they are impressive, imposing, but terrible weapons.
Originally Posted by Shaddim
Not all claymores have a 45 degree guard, as a Google image search will readily show, and even an amateur can avoid being hit by the crossguard.
I'd say that almost none would have a 45-degree guard, but almost all were angled. 90-degree quillons would have been far more uncommon; they are more likely to catch an opposing blade and less likely to catch your own self when having to fight in close quarters. [Edit: just googled claymore; description actually includes "angled quillons".] And furthermore, almost none of them would be sharpened; in the rare event you used them to attack or riposte it was more likely to be blunt trauma.
An "amateur" can avoid hurting themselves precisely because they're an amateur - fighting one on one with extremely basic attach, parry and riposte technique (much like the original SW haha). No need for sudden twists or defensive scrambles - that's when an already unwieldy weapon became a death sentence. The precise reason that these swords became extinct is that they were essentially useless in any sort of advanced hand-to-hand combat.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
Of course, as I mentioned claymores/broadswords went extinct 500 years ago because they were so completely unwieldy and impractical - they are impressive, imposing, but terrible weapons.
I always thought that they were used because you wanted a nice heavy blade to put all the energy from you and your horse into.
The biggest difference I see between a lightsaber and sword technique wise is even the very tip of the blade is lethal with no force behind it.
I think that's exactly why it quickly fell out of favour as a hand-to-hand weapon - it was eventually used almost exclusively by heavy calvary in a slightly different form. And you'd likely have a full suit of armour to boot.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
Similar to the point I'm making. It's always bugged me that SW depicts their battles as clumsy two-handed affairs with ancient/basic technique; the usage and technique would be completely different for an actual lightsabre which has a 360-degree cutting plane, allowing for far more clever feints and ripostes.
This isn't just Star Wars, that "ancient" technique you see in movies is pretty bullshit.
At least I'm assuming that in ancient times, what you tried to do with your weapon is hit your opponent.
In movies, with rare exceptions, people attack the opponent's weapon.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
This isn't just Star Wars, that "ancient" technique you see in movies is pretty bullshit.
At least I'm assuming that in ancient times, what you tried to do with your weapon is hit your opponent.
In movies, with rare exceptions, people attack the opponent's weapon.
That's actually somewhat more accurate than you might have meant it - in fact in battle, swordfighting was more like wrestling with sharp objects. You know in movies, when you have the fancy guy who twirls around all crazy and shit and then the street-smart guy pokes his eye and punches him in the face or something like that? (If you're into Game of Thrones, that guy is Bronn.)
That's what sword fighting was actually like. You got close, used a wrestling move to trip the guy or just elbowed him in the schnozz, and then stabbed him before he could recover.
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV
The biggest difference I see between a lightsaber and sword technique wise is even the very tip of the blade is lethal with no force behind it.
Errrr....as a weapon, or as used in the SW films? (See our previous comments on technique or lack thereof in the movies.)
As a weapon, the technique would have to be totally different. Swords themselves have different techniques depending on type; but in general you had a pointy end, likely one or two cutting edges, and a flat concussive side. That all makes huge impacts on what you should do with a blade in a particular situation.
Lightsabres are supposed to be razor sharp every which way. Stuff that would never work with a sword would be deadly with a lightsabre.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
That's actually somewhat more accurate than you might have meant it - in fact in battle, swordfighting was more like wrestling with sharp objects. You know in movies, when you have the fancy guy who twirls around all crazy and shit and then the street-smart guy pokes his eye and punches him in the face or something like that? (If you're into Game of Thrones, that guy is Bronn.)
That's what sword fighting was actually like. You got close, used a wrestling move to trip the guy or just elbowed him in the schnozz, and then stabbed him before he could recover.
The problem is they then (usually) fail to show the punches or kicks. It's just cling-clang cling-clang cling-clang... swords are bound... closeup on face with teeth gritted... "HUAAAAH" as one person pushes the other away as far as possible... cling-clang cling-clang cling-clang.
As you say, Instead of the HUAAAH toss, that's when people go for a knee in the groin.
It's just cling-clang cling-clang cling-clang... swords are bound... closeup on face with teeth gritted... "HUAAAAH" as one person is therefore impaled on his own lightsabre crossguard
Amirite? Amirite?
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Last edited by reader50; Dec 3, 2014 at 03:28 PM.
Reason: fixed video tag)
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
As a weapon, the technique would have to be totally different. Swords themselves have different techniques depending on type; but in general you had a pointy end, likely one or two cutting edges, and a flat concussive side. That all makes huge impacts on what you should do with a blade in a particular situation.
Lightsabres are supposed to be razor sharp every which way. Stuff that would never work with a sword would be deadly with a lightsabre.
But even a extremely sharp sword requires some momentum or strength behind it. Something with the weight and balance of a flashlight, that makes even fencing touches fatal? All I see it two guys circling each other with the swords pointed straight at each other.
I think the only thing that makes a lightsaber a usable weapon is the precog powers of the jedi.
But even a extremely sharp sword requires some momentum or strength behind it. Something with the weight and balance of a flashlight, that makes even fencing touches fatal? All I see it two guys circling each other with the swords pointed straight at each other.
I think the only thing that makes a lightsaber a usable weapon is the precog powers of the jedi.
Take the scene in the cantina.
Is it able to sever an arm due to strength, sharpness, or magic?
It always felt to me like sharpness. OWK didn't need to swing it particularly hard.
You'd assume the blade must have weight from watching the movies....otherwise why are they holding it old-school two-handed claymore style? They swing those things like they're 20 pounds....
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
You can't really check the swing of a sword and make a killing blow. The inertia of sword means you'd need to be twice a strong, only use half your strength in the initial swing, or swing twice. With a lightsaber you don't need to put any strength into the swing. At any point the only limit on which way you can change the direction of it is the joints of your body. If you want the fight to be anything other than a 50/50 proposition you need more. I'm proposing that being able to see in all directions and predict the near future would be enough to allow skill to be a factor.
Crappy construction or materials can make one lightsaber superior to another where one could "break" another's beam. ie. Artificial crystals, used in most sith weapons, can vary greatly in quality, more so than those that form naturally.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Crappy construction or materials can make one lightsaber superior to another where one could "break" another's beam. ie. Artificial crystals, used in most sith weapons, can vary greatly in quality, more so than those that form naturally.
Aaaand.... Breathe out. Time to go "outside"
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
You can't really check the swing of a sword and make a killing blow. The inertia of sword means you'd need to be twice a strong, only use half your strength in the initial swing, or swing twice. With a lightsaber you don't need to put any strength into the swing. At any point the only limit on which way you can change the direction of it is the joints of your body. If you want the fight to be anything other than a 50/50 proposition you need more. I'm proposing that being able to see in all directions and predict the near future would be enough to allow skill to be a factor.
Isn't everything you have said above confirming that technique would be all-important? "It's sharper and way lighter than a sword, inertia wouldn't matter nearly as much" - just seems to be an argument for blinding speed sword fights where one wrong move means you've lost at least a hand; in other words, everything comes down to perfect technique. You seem to be drawing the opposite conclusion, but I think I'm missing why...?
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
A non-nerdy talk about Star Wars, on a tech forum? You're in the wrong thread.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Isn't everything you have said above confirming that technique would be all-important? "It's sharper and way lighter than a sword, inertia wouldn't matter nearly as much" - just seems to be an argument for blinding speed sword fights where one wrong move means you've lost at least a hand; in other words, everything comes down to perfect technique. You seem to be drawing the opposite conclusion, but I think I'm missing why...?
Isn't the one wrong move is actually one wrong guess because each person has to many options.
I certainly agree that making a sport faster and more dangerous will increase randomness, but really fail to see how that in any way minimizes the importance of technique. In my view, it would have the opposite effect - if you're off balance or out of position, you're almost certainly guaranteed to lose.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
Then you might want to stay clear of this movie. I read the leaked script on the internet and it goes into vague detail why Tatooine is a desert planet.
Then you might want to stay clear of this movie. I read the leaked script on the internet and it goes into vague detail why Tatooine is a desert planet.
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