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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > A woman's role in the new "raunch" culture

A woman's role in the new "raunch" culture
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UNTeMac
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Dec 19, 2006, 06:16 PM
 
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1220/p01s01-ussc.html

"NEW YORK – If Tara Conner had taken her own advice, she may not have found herself in the full glare of media cameras Tuesday, crying as she owned up to some bad behavior.

During the pageant in April, the aspiring Miss USA was asked if "pop superstars" were positive role models for young people. "I think they're a little bit too risqué," she told the judges. "I think they need to tone it down."

That answer may have helped Ms. Conner win her crown as Miss USA 2006. But subsequent reports of the Kentucky girl's hard partying with other celebrities on the New York club scene almost cost her that prized tiara"
Read the whole article for the full idea. I tend to agree that the "power" women supposedly wield in their sexuality actually ends up limiting them to only those attributes when it comes to contributing to society.
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Dec 19, 2006, 09:11 PM
 
They end up looking silly and in rehab.
     
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Dec 20, 2006, 04:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by UNTeMac View Post
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1220/p01s01-ussc.html

Read the whole article for the full idea. I tend to agree that the "power" women supposedly wield in their sexuality actually ends up limiting them to only those attributes when it comes to contributing to society.
I think that women are like the Democrats. They listen to the wrong people when they make decisions and then find out they were sorely mistaken by trying to cater to sex and drug maniacs.

Women listen to horny guys who want them to do marvelously naughty things. They watch the Hip Hop vids which make it seem as though there is nothing wrong and everything right with bein a Ho, Ho, Ho, having lesbo sex and partying like it's 2099.

So when they emerge from that unwholesome cocoon to the light of day they find that not everyone buys into that version of morality.
     
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Dec 20, 2006, 11:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by marden View Post
Women listen to horny guys who want them to do marvelously naughty things.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
     
marden
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Dec 21, 2006, 12:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
You say that like it's a bad thing.
No, I treated the subject ambiguously. Note, "marvelously naughty."
     
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Dec 21, 2006, 12:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by marden View Post
I think that women are like the Democrats...
Come on mar... no need to bring that in here.
     
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Dec 21, 2006, 12:33 PM
 
I felt it was my duty to post some pictures of the young woman in question:













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Dec 21, 2006, 12:34 PM
 
For some reason I really love the fact that she supposedly made out with Miss Teen USA.
     
design219
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Dec 21, 2006, 01:47 PM
 
For some reason I really love the fact that she supposedly made out with Miss Teen USA.

Oh yeah. Moist dreams tonight.
     
andi*pandi
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Dec 21, 2006, 02:51 PM
 
Just because she's a hypocrite don't paint all women with that brush. Perhaps what it really shows is that pageants are platforms for contestants to insincerely spout what the judges want to hear, whether they believe it or not? It's an artificial environment, populated by artificial people. Who cares.
     
design219
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Dec 21, 2006, 03:12 PM
 
Yeah, sure, whatever, but back to the making out part...
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Dec 21, 2006, 03:13 PM
 
I need cell phone pics.
     
subego
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Dec 21, 2006, 03:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
I need cell phone pics.
Here:

     
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Dec 21, 2006, 03:35 PM
 
Zing
     
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Dec 21, 2006, 03:44 PM
 
Well, I can appreciate a good boob job as much as the next fella, especially if all I'm doing is looking, but those things belong in the produce aisle.
     
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Dec 21, 2006, 03:46 PM
 
Well hopefully Teeny is natural.

Anyway it was the overall action I was more interested in.
     
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Dec 21, 2006, 03:48 PM
 
So, you're asking be to post gross surgery pics?

Be right back...
     
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Dec 21, 2006, 03:50 PM
 
*evacuates thread*
     
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Dec 21, 2006, 03:51 PM
 
Oh God, somebody lock this thread!
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Dec 21, 2006, 04:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Come on mar... no need to bring that in here.
You're right.

These young women too often listen to the wrong people when they make decisions and then find out they were sorely mistaken by trying to cater to sex and drug maniacs.

Women listen to horny guys who want them to do marvelously naughty things. They watch the Hip Hop vids which make it seem as though there is nothing wrong and everything right with bein a Ho, Ho, Ho, having lesbo sex and partying like it's 2099.

So when they emerge from that unwholesome cocoon to the light of day they find that not everyone buys into that version of morality.

In some ways I can see a similarity to the way Democrats make decisions. They surround themselves with extreme special interest groups such as: pro-abortionists, pro-same sex marriage and America's immediate withdrawal from Iraq (at least in 2004 it was an extreme group).

And because they are amongst only people who think as they do they get the mistaken impression that most EVERYONE in the country shares those same values when in fact most people in America look down on those things but are willing to do nothing about it until it's time to vote.

THEN the truth becomes known to the Dems and they were very shaken to understand how wrong they were.

And these girls soon find out that being ho's isn't going to earn them the same adulation they got from the horny guys and they are very shaken to learn the truth.

There. Is that better?
     
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Dec 21, 2006, 04:03 PM
 
Or maybe young women today are just like young men. No longer lashed to sexual double-standards and equally capable of copious amounts of poor decision making.


Originally Posted by marden View Post
They watch the Hip Hop vids which make it seem as though there is nothing wrong and everything right with bein a Ho, Ho, Ho, having lesbo sex and partying like it's 2099.
*imagines marden shaking his cane at the TV*
     
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Dec 21, 2006, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Or maybe young women today are just like young men. No longer lashed to sexual double-standards and equally capable of copious amounts of poor decision making.
Quote for the truth. Though you know it would've been even funnier if it were Mr. America making out with Mr. Teen America.
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Dec 21, 2006, 04:13 PM
 
And because they are amongst only people who think as they do they get the mistaken impression that most EVERYONE in the country shares those same values when in fact most people in America look down on those things but are willing to do nothing about it until it's time to vote
Rush, is that you?

Funny how Dems now have Congress. I guess most of America are non voters.
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Dec 21, 2006, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Though you know it would've been even funnier if it were Mr. America making out with Mr. Teen America.
I now need to go drink that picture out of my head.
     
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Dec 21, 2006, 04:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post












Yea, she looks like she does things she's not supposed to with that expression.
I like my water with hops, malt, hops, yeast, and hops.
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 02:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by marden View Post
In some ways I can see a similarity to the way Democrats make decisions. They surround themselves with extreme special interest groups such as: pro-abortionists, pro-same sex marriage and America's immediate withdrawal from Iraq (at least in 2004 it was an extreme group).
Unlike the Republicans, who would never be caught dead around extreme special interest groups like the NRA, the religious right, defense contractors, Haliburton, missile-rattling military expansionists, or pro-death penalty types?

Why pretend "special interest groups" are a unique feature of Democrats?
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 02:56 AM
 
Oh come on. There are no extremist Republicans. Blowing up abortion clinics are extemist. It's conservatism. Going to war with Iraq without prove of any WMD and killing babies and innocent civilians is not extemist. It's God's will.
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Dec 22, 2006, 05:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Oh come on. There are no extremist Republicans. Blowing up abortion clinics are extemist. It's conservatism. Going to war with Iraq without prove of any WMD and killing babies and innocent civilians is not extemist. It's God's will.
George?
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Dec 22, 2006, 05:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Or maybe young women today are just like young men. No longer lashed to sexual double-standards and equally capable of copious amounts of poor decision making.

*imagines marden shaking his cane at the TV*
You illustrate the point.

You think I'm old fashioned for pointing out the reality that you, much of the "JackAss Generation" and this misinformed young Miss seemed to miss.

There IS going to be a slow acceptance of these naughty values by America.

You can about it. You can about it. You can about it. But the fact remains.

So, you can either, get used to it or just continue
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 06:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by design219 View Post
Rush, is that you?

Funny how Dems now have Congress. I guess most of America are non voters.
Funny how the Dems in Congress allowed this to happen.



Unless it means that America really doesn't embrace these raunchy values?
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 06:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Rumor View Post
Yea, she looks like she does things she's not supposed to with that expression.
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 06:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Unlike the Republicans, who would never be caught dead around extreme special interest groups like the NRA, the religious right, defense contractors, Haliburton, missile-rattling military expansionists, or pro-death penalty types?

Why pretend "special interest groups" are a unique feature of Democrats?
That is the WHOLE CRUX of this matter of liberals and conservatives.

What you call Conservative "special interest groups" are those that specifically exist to defend this Nation, this Constitution, specific constitutional rights and preserve order and help perpetuate future generations of Americans who will enjoy the same rights as we do.

The Liberal special interest groups want the protected rights to indulge in behavior which morally or materially weakens the foundation of America.

And it's just that they act like little whiny kids who want dessert for dinner and who want to stay up late and not brush their teeth and not say their prayers before bed. There may be no immediate or discernible problems with the kids doing this but as time goes by the dangers begin to be known.

It takes good judgment and wisdom to know you shouldn't go there in the first place and that it's better to just say "no."

Here's a good example:

Thalidomide was being widely prescribed in Europe and Canada as an anti-emetic for pregnant women. When a domestic pharmaceutical company applied to the FDA to market the tablets in the USA the case was given to the agency's newest reviewer, who'd been there only one month, Frances Oldham Kelsey.

Still, Kelsey refused to clear Kevadon for sale in the United States until she could review satisfactory studies. She later said that the reports submitted by Grünenthal and Richardson-Merrell were more like testimonials than results of well-designed, controlled studies.[1] (One possible reason for the lack of data could be that Richardson-Merrell's "investigation" of thalidomide for its FDA application was organized and implemented not by scientists, but by the company's sales and marketing division.)[3] It wasn't enough to know how the drug acted in animals – she wanted to know how it worked in humans, and the data was not forthcoming. Kelsey had also heard anecdotal reports of peripheral neuropathy as a side effect of thalidomide, which only made her think more about the possible effects on a fetus. She continued to reject the Kevadon application. In total, the company resubmitted its Kevadon application to the FDA six times, but no new evidence was given in those applications and Kelsey refused to budge...
And eventually reports from all over the globe began to surface of malformed newborns whose mothers had taken Thalidomide and then the horror stories began to multiply by the thousands.

The legal mess caused by the effects of thalidomide, and Chemie Grünenthal's shoddy testing and approval procedures, is still winding its way through courts worldwide even 50 years later. Thalidomide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But American mothers and their children were spared this tragedy because one brave and wise woman just said NO.

America is telling the liberals, NO.

But I guess they just want pie, pie and more pie.
     
marden
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Dec 22, 2006, 06:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Oh come on. There are no extremist Republicans. Blowing up abortion clinics are extemist. It's conservatism. Going to war with Iraq without prove of any WMD and killing babies and innocent civilians is not extemist. It's God's will.
When will you liberals learn to stop going off half-cocked?

The facts of the matter prove that abortion clinic bombings were MUCH higher during the Clinton years than in the Bush administrations on either end of Bill's tenure.

But even at it's height in 1992 there were 32 bombings, resulting in zero deaths. Relatively few by any measure compared to Islamic terrorist violence.

And those numbers decreased during the Bush years. In 2002 there was 1 bombing. In 2003 there were 3 bombings. in 2004 there were 2 bombings. And ZERO deaths.

Violence at US Abortion Clinics

So hyteckit, I'd say you need to STOP spewing ignorance and do some reading. Wouldn't you agree?
( Last edited by marden; Dec 22, 2006 at 08:41 AM. )
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 07:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by marden View Post
When will you liberals learn to stop going off half-cocked?

The facts of the matter prove that abortion clinic bombings were MUCH higher during the Clinton years than in the Bush administrations on either end of Bill's tenure.

But even at it's height in 1992 there were 32 bombings, resulting in zero deaths. Relatively few compared by any measure compared to Islamic terrorist violence.

And those numbers decreased during the Bush years. In 2002 there was 1 bombing. In 2003 there were 3 bombings. in 2004 there were 2 bombings. And ZERO deaths.

Violence at US Abortion Clinics

So hyteckit, I'd say you need to STOP spewing ignorance and do some reading. Wouldn't you agree?
So abortion clinic bombings is all Clinton's fault?
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Dec 22, 2006, 07:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Oh come on. There are no extremist Republicans. Blowing up abortion clinics are extemist. It's conservatism. Going to war with Iraq without prove of any WMD and killing babies and innocent civilians is not extemist. It's God's will.
People who say things like above are extremists. Not all conservatism has to do with religion.

And the blowing up babies part. Really, you should be ashamed of yourself.

BTW Clinton was doing the same here. He "blew up babies" as well I guess. For the SAME reasons. (Actually he claimed he KNEW Iraq had Nuke facilities, LAWL!) Where was the outrage?

"Clinton, Dec. 19, 1998: "Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. . . . Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors. . . . Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons."
( Last edited by Kevin; Dec 22, 2006 at 08:08 AM. )
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 08:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
So abortion clinic bombings is all Clinton's fault?
Yeah, that's what it means.
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 09:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by marden View Post
You illustrate the point.

You think I'm old fashioned for pointing out the reality that you, much of the "JackAss Generation" and this misinformed young Miss seemed to miss.

There IS going to be a slow acceptance of these naughty values by America.

You can about it. You can about it. You can about it. But the fact remains.

So, you can either, get used to it or just continue
No, you miss the point.

I think you're an old man because you keep griping about the hippity-hop and mtv, as if that's the root cause of adolescent immaturity and misguided decisions.

Sure kids today do a whole lot more that would have been considered taboo 50 years ago. Yes, kids do a lot more dumb things than 50 years ago. But there's also alot of stuff that people were doing before like they do now, only 50 years ago no one talked about it and it didn't come out.

You want to talk change in societal norms, I always point to the coverage a known philanderer (JFK) got back in the 60s compared to what one (Clinton) would get now.

Did people change? No. But whether they talked about it did.

(And for the record I don't think everything Miss USA is being chastised for is wrong)
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 09:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by marden View Post
What you call Conservative "special interest groups" are those that specifically exist to defend this Nation, this Constitution, specific constitutional rights and preserve order and help perpetuate future generations of Americans who will enjoy the same rights as we do.

The Liberal special interest groups want the protected rights to indulge in behavior which morally or materially weakens the foundation of America.
Your unrealistic partisan view here is a joke. Get off your high horse and realize both sides are quite corrupt.


Originally Posted by marden View Post
America is telling the liberals, NO.
Were you not around for the first Tuesday in November?
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 09:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Your unrealistic partisan view here is a joke. Get off your high horse and realize both sides are quite corrupt.
While Conservatives are imperfect just as Liberals are imperfect the statement was addressing the nature of their respective special interest groups. The statement remains true.


Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Were you not around for the first Tuesday in November?
Why don't you send her a text message and let her know about the election results and then see what she says.

     
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Dec 22, 2006, 10:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by marden View Post
While Conservatives are imperfect just as Liberals are imperfect the statement was addressing the nature of their respective special interest groups. The statement remains true.
Everything that a conservative has interest in doesn't necessarily have everyone's best interests at stake, no.



Originally Posted by marden View Post
Why don't you send her a text message and let her know about the election results and then see what she says.
Total non-sequitur. America isn't doing a very good job of telling liberals no by electing Democrats.
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 10:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
No, you miss the point.

I think you're an old man because you keep griping about the hippity-hop and mtv, as if that's the root cause of adolescent immaturity and misguided decisions.

Sure kids today do a whole lot more that would have been considered taboo 50 years ago. Yes, kids do a lot more dumb things than 50 years ago. But there's also alot of stuff that people were doing before like they do now, only 50 years ago no one talked about it and it didn't come out.

You want to talk change in societal norms, I always point to the coverage a known philanderer (JFK) got back in the 60s compared to what one (Clinton) would get now.

Did people change? No. But whether they talked about it did.

(And for the record I don't think everything Miss USA is being chastised for is wrong)
Please let's not debate the immaterial and the inconsequential.

The fact is that people always have and always will take cues from others as to what constitutes "normal" or "acceptable" behavior. Whether they get it from MTV or their friends or Magazines or however it might be.

SOMEONE decides to push the envelope and because no one is there to exert any kind of containment force against that envelope pushing act or speak a discouraging word against that daring new outrageous trend, the new unacceptable behavior gains acceptance until a thing like women kissing women and such is believed by a whole segment of (as you say) "hippity-hop"-ing mtv brainwashed youngsters who think such things are acceptable.

But the world around them, the one that still has a say in these things (thank GOD!) says:

No. No! NO!
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 10:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by marden View Post
The fact is that people always have and always will take cues from others as to what constitutes "normal" or "acceptable" behavior. Whether they get it from MTV or their friends or Magazines or however it might be.
Friends, I can agree to very much so.


Originally Posted by marden View Post
SOMEONE decides to push the envelope and because no one is there to exert any kind of containment force against that envelope pushing act or speak a discouraging word against that daring new outrageous trend
Well, who's to blame. I suspect parents.


Originally Posted by marden View Post
a thing like women kissing women and such is believed by a whole segment
What's wrong with a girl kissing another girl?


Originally Posted by marden View Post
of (as you say) "hippity-hop"-ing mtv brainwashed youngsters who think such things are acceptable.
So tell me, does Fox News brainwash you?
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 10:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Everything that a conservative has interest in doesn't necessarily have everyone's best interests at stake, no.
It's about what's good for THE WHOLE. There's a different philosophy that is committed to everyone's personal best interests.

Hedonism can be conjoined with either psychological or ethical egoism to make psychological hedonism: a purely descriptive claim which states that agents naturally seek pleasure, or ethical hedonism, the claim that we should act so as to produce our own pleasure.
It is natural for children to think only of themselves and to want only pleasure at the expense of doing the difficult things that are necessary for long term happiness or survival.

Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Total non-sequitur. America isn't doing a very good job of telling liberals no by electing Democrats.
The recent election was the misinformed American public's way of making a statement about the War in Iraq.

The recent tumult over Tara Conner's naughtiness which jeopardized her Miss USA title came as the result of America's statement about her morals and this drew attention to the fact that she merely reflects the bad judgment of millions of horny young men who will say and do anything to promote a culture of getting your groove on as being natural and the norm.

Ms. Conner now knows differently.

And so do you.
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 10:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by marden View Post
It's about what's good for THE WHOLE. There's a different philosophy that is committed to everyone's personal best interests.
Sounds like a liberal 'communist' BS line conservatives love to rail against.

No, you guys are committed to promoting your philosophy as the best, just like the other side.


Originally Posted by marden View Post
It is natural for children to think only of themselves and to want only pleasure at the expense of doing the difficult things that are necessary for long term happiness or survival.
Which is why we have parents.


Originally Posted by marden View Post
The recent tumult over Tara Conner's naughtiness which jeopardized her Miss USA title came as the result of America's statement about her morals and this drew attention to the fact that she merely reflects the bad judgment of millions of horny young men who will say and do anything to promote a culture of getting your groove on as being natural and the norm.
Uh, getting your 'groove' on is natural, and apparently it is the norm too!

Study: 95% of Americans getting their groove on before marriage
     
Kevin
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Dec 22, 2006, 10:57 AM
 
OMG marden said stuff!11
     
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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
OMG marden said stuff!11
So now I'm not allowed to debate his points at all? (without you considering me trolling him?)
     
marden
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Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Sounds like a liberal 'communist' BS line conservatives love to rail against.
It's called sacrificing personal pleasure or gain in order to do the best for the common good.

Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
No, you guys are committed to promoting your philosophy
Which is to defend this Nation, this Constitution, specific constitutional rights and preserve order and help perpetuate future generations of Americans who will enjoy the same rights as we do.

Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Which is why we have parents.

And unfortunately in too many cases the parents you speak of are Democrats/Liberals.

Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Uh, getting your 'groove' on is natural, and apparently it is the norm too!
Oh, so you would be ok with showing your sister's videotaped activities with toys, instruments and women? Or your dream is marrying a porn actress who specializes in gang bangs and who consumes all the residue?

Of course you would. It's natural and the norm, too!
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 11:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by marden View Post
It's called sacrificing personal pleasure or gain in order to do the best for the common good.
Sounds like high taxes.

Originally Posted by marden View Post
Very mature and full of holiday spirit too. And you know you shouldn't do that, either.


Originally Posted by marden View Post
Which is to defend this Nation, this Constitution, specific constitutional rights and preserve order and help perpetuate future generations of Americans who will enjoy the same rights as we do.
Liberals are doing the same thing, too. You just don't agree with some of those 'rights'


Originally Posted by marden View Post
And unfortunately in too many cases the parents you speak of are Democrats/Liberals.
Yeah, I'm sure it's all on that side. Isn't Kerrigan the one going to school with Fortune 500 children who sound as amoral as the liberals you decry?


Originally Posted by marden View Post
Oh, so you would be ok with marrying a porn actress who specializes in gang bangs and consumes all the residue?
What does such a ridiculous extreme have to do with real life?
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 11:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
Yeah, I'm sure it's all on that side. Isn't Kerrigan the one going to school with Fortune 500 children who sound as amoral as the liberals you decry?
Liberals can be wealthy or successful businesspeople. Fortune 500 doesn't necessarily = Conservative ONLY. Maybe those children sound like amoral liberals because they ARE amoral liberals. Maybe.

Originally Posted by Dakar² View Post
What does such a ridiculous extreme have to do with real life?
That's the point. America is saying that what she did (whatever it was, I don't even know other than the kissing girls and prolly doing them) was too extreme.

Now can we put this issue to rest?
     
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Dec 22, 2006, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by marden View Post
Liberals can be wealthy or successful businesspeople. Fortune 500 doesn't necessarily = Conservative ONLY. Maybe those children sound like amoral liberals because they ARE amoral liberals. Maybe.
Whatever lets you sleep at night.


Originally Posted by marden View Post
That's the point. America is saying that what she did (whatever it was, I don't even know other than the kissing girls and prolly doing them) was too extreme.
I think the major sticking point was the cocaine usage, but let's not forget that the people in charge of these types of pageants tend to look to project more superficially 'wholeome' (i believe in world peace and feeding the poor...) values (than mainstream common ones) while hypocritically flaunting these girls bodies.

Here's the big shocker. Everyone assumed this girl was gonna lose her crown, but she actually managed to keep it, while doing rehab. So obviously they didn't fully reject her, as they might have done in the past.
     
 
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