[surly]

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=15280

[zachs]

Originally posted by surly:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=15280

Maybe you could point out some lies in F9/11?

[CreepingDeth]

But Castro likes it.

You aren't liberal, are you?

[zachs]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
But Castro likes it.

You aren't liberal, are you?

Lies? Anyone? Can anyone point out any lies?

Guess NOT!

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by zachs:
Maybe you could point out some lies in F9/11?

You swallow everything, don't you.

Ok, here's the F9/11 script. Link

I guess you're in the same boat as Castro. Congratulations.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
You swallow everything, don't you.

Ok, here's the F9/11 script. Link

I guess you're in the same boat as Castro. Congratulations.

Oh.

Good'ole rightwingsnews...

[Krusty]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:

I guess you're in the same boat as Castro. Congratulations.

Nice.
zachs: "substantiate anything you're saying"
CD: "You're Castro !! You're Castro !!! You commie !!!"

[zachs]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
You swallow everything, don't you.

Ok, here's the F9/11 script. Link

I guess you're in the same boat as Castro. Congratulations.

Golly gee, you're just a regular comedian!

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
Oh.

Good'ole rightwingsnews...

Couldn't find any other source, and it'd be too big and too boring to post here in the forum.

Here.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Couldn't find any other source, and it'd be too big and too boring to post here in the forum.

Here.

OMG!

You must be BUSH!!!!!

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Krusty:
Nice.
zachs: "substantiate anything you're saying"
CD: "You're Castro !! You're Castro !!! You commie !!!"

If the shoe fits�

Golly gee, you're a regular source of information, Mr. McAuliffe! All of your info comes from a movie the producer said was biased. Golly gee! Thanks for doing your own research and paying attention to the news! Gee willikers!

[zachs]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
If the shoe fits�

Golly gee, you're a regular source of information, Mr. McAuliffe! All of your info comes from a movie the producer said was biased. Golly gee! Thanks for doing your own research and paying attention to the news! Gee willikers!

Care to name any lies? ANY at all?

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by zachs:
Care to name any lies? ANY at all?

Care to name anything that it proves?

Besides�
Bush stole the election being the most obvious right off the bat.

The problem is what he left out.
"Bush went on vacation too much so he didn't care and he knew 9/11 was going to happened but went to his ranch and stuff."

If that's one of his main points he needs to find some new material in Mother Jones. What does he do at the ranch? Besides some work around the place, he also is in contact with his advisors and talks to them about issues. If you've ever heard them reporting, they usually say something like "he's in his ranch meeting with advisors" or something. Not exactly my kind of vacation. Not like going to a secluded mansion or 7 and chilln there.

What's your next 'fact'?

[zachs]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Care to name anything that it proves?

Guess you can't.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by zachs:


Guess you can't.

I guess your style of debate is so messed up you have to rely on links to everything then claim that somebody can't back something up from a movie Moore said himself was biased. You can't hold an argument together without zooming out the window and finding somebody else to do your research.
Congratulations.

Why are you so sure that F911 is the absolute truth? Did you research everything, or did you go to MichaelMoore.com for your info?

[Spliffdaddy]

So you're saying it's all true, zack?

Dude. You're like the only person alive with that opinion.

[zachs]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
So you're saying it's all true?

Dude. You're like the only person alive with that opinion.

I'm saying, show me a lie. That's all. Shouldn't be too hard, right?

[Spliffdaddy]

where have you been hiding the last few months?

I'm not wasting my time trying to reason with a anti-Bush liberal.

believe what you want.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
.. from a movie Moore said himself was biased.

Nobody ever said it wasn't biased. Of course its biased -- even libbies know that. I think he was asking what in the movie was presented as fact that actually was false.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
where have you been hiding the last few months?

I'm not wasting my time trying to reason with a anti-Bush liberal.

believe what you want.

I shouldn't have taken the bait. This is boring. He'll show me another link in a minute�so here's mine.

Show me something you can prove from the movie. If the movie is right then it can be proven and vice versa.

[zachs]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
where have you been hiding the last few months?

Haven't been "hiding" anywhere.

I'm not wasting my time trying to reason with a anti-Bush liberal.

believe what you want.

Um, OK. All I'm asking is for someone to point out a lie.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by zachs:
Haven't been "hiding" anywhere.

Yeah you have. You disappeared after you kept referring to the DNC pages. I think early August. I had to take a week's hiatus cuz I was sick. You had like a month and a half.

[zachs]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
I shouldn't have taken the bait. This is boring. He'll show me another link in a minute�so here's mine.

Show me something you can prove from the movie. If the movie is right then it can be proven and vice versa.

Debunking of that site: one, two, three, four. five, six, seven, eight.

[zachs]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Yeah you have. You disappeared after you kept referring to the DNC pages. I think early August. I had to take a week's hiatus cuz I was sick. You had like a month and a half.

I haven't been here in a while. Doesn't have anything to do with my posts.

And which posts are you referring to?

[aberdeenwriter]

_http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=15280

Iranian Students' reaction:

"A group of 12 university students, for example, composed of both men and women who had seen the film, collectively wrote me and signed an e-mail which said: �Wow, this guy complains that Bush lied once. What would this windbag do if he lived here where our president lies to us once an hour?�
_
Another comment was: �This guy gets to publicly accuse Bush of lying and becomes famous and adored worldwide. We, here, complain about some decrepit and inconsequential government lackey and we not only go to prison but some of us get death sentences. He ought to thank his lucky stars he lives in a country where he�s allowed and even encouraged to be this obnoxious��
_
Someone else quipped: �If he thinks that the U.S. is so bad, he�s welcome to trade places with us�since he�s so forgiving of brutal Middle Eastern dictators!�
_
Another young man said: �They are showing this film to erase from our minds the idea of America being the great liberator; maybe Americans themselves don�t appreciate what they have but we sure do!�
_
Another comment was: �Outside such pathetic ideological schemes, Moore�s fixation to reprimand and castigate his own society is so great that he is BLIND to the fact that our ancient land and society cannot be regarded and dealt with in the same fashion; therefore he has fallen pray to the Mullahs for whom he is nothing more than a tool to discard when his mission for them is completed.�

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by zachs:
Maybe you could point out some lies in F9/11?

* National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice is depicted in the movie telling a reporter, �Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11.�
* The scene deceptively shows the Administration directly blaming Saddam and his regime for the attacks on 9/11 by taking her comments out of context. Now read the entire statement made by Ms. Rice to the reporter:
* �Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11. It�s not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved in 9/11. But if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that led people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York.� (CBS News, November 28, 2003 Interview)

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by zachs:
Lies? Anyone? Can anyone point out any lies?

Guess NOT!

* In the film, Moore leads viewers to believe that members of bin Laden�s family were allowed to exit the country after the attacks without questioning by authorities. o The September 11th commission, on the other hand, reported that 22 of the 26 people on the flight that took most of the bin Laden family out of the country were interviewed and found to be innocent of suspicion. (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, �Analyzing �Fahrenheit 9/11�: It�s Accurate To A Degree,� Seattle Times, 07/05/04)
* The commission reported that �each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure.�

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by zachs:
Care to name any lies? ANY at all?

* Moore claims that James Bath, a friend of President Bush from his time with the Texas Air National Guard, might have funneled bin Laden money to an unsuccessful Bush oil-drilling firm called Arbusto Energy.
* Bill Allison, managing editor for the Center for Public Integrity (an independent watchdog group in Washington, D.C.), on the other hand, said, �We looked into bin Laden money going to Arbusto, and we never found anything to back that up,� (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, �Analyzing �Fahrenheit 9/11�: It�s Accurate To A Degree,� Seattle Times, 07/05/04)

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by zachs:


Guess you can't.

* The movie claims that the Bush administration �supported closing veterans hospitals.� o �The Department of Veterans Affairs did propose closing seven hospitals in areas with declining populations where the hospitals were underutilized, and whose veterans could be served by other hospitals� (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, �Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,� http://i2i.org/ Accessed, 07/11/04)
* But Moore�s film fails to mention that the Department also proposed building new hospitals in areas where needs were growing, and also proposed building blind rehabilitation centers and spinal cord injury centers (News Release, Department of Veterans Affairs, www.va.gov, 10/24/03)

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by zachs:
I'm saying, show me a lie. That's all. Shouldn't be too hard, right?

Conspiracy theories abound about the reasons for the War on Terror, but none is more outlandish than the one propagandized in Moore�s film: that the Afghan war was fought solely to enable the Unocal company to build an oil pipeline (the plan for which was abandoned by the company in 1998).
* Moore �suggests that one of the first official acts of Afghan President Hamid Karzai � was to help seal a deal for � Unocal to build an oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the Indian Ocean. It alleges that Karzai had been a Unocal consultant.� (emphasis added) (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, �Analyzing �Fahrenheit 9/11�: It�s Accurate To A Degree,� Seattle Times, 07/05/04)
* Unocal spokesman, Barry Lane, says unequivocally, �Karzai was never, in any capacity, an employee, consultant or a consultant of a consultant,� and Unocal never had a plan to build a Caspian Sea pipeline. (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, �Analyzing �Fahrenheit 9/11�: It�s Accurate To A Degree,� Seattle Times, 07/05/04)
* Moore mentions that the Taliban visited Texas while President Bush was governor to discuss a potential project with Unocal.
* While Moore implies that then-Governor Bush met with the Taliban, no such meeting occurred. The Taliban delegation did, however, meet with the Clinton Administration on this visit. (Matt Labash, �Un-Moored From Reality; Fahrenheit 9/11 Connects Dots That Aren�t There,� Weekly Standard, July 5-July 12 Issue)

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by zachs:
Haven't been "hiding" anywhere.



Um, OK. All I'm asking is for someone to point out a lie.

* Even readily available figures are exaggerated for effect in Fahrenheit 9/11. The claims have a basis in reality, making them believable, but are false nonetheless. � In the film, Moore asks Craig Unger, author of House of Bush, House of Saud, �How much money do the Saudis have invested in America, roughly?� to which Unger responds, �Uh, I�ve heard figures as high as $860 billion.�
* The Institute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy reports that worldwide Saudi investment approximated $700 billion � a figure much lower than Unger alleges the Saudi government to have invested in the U.S. (Tanya C. Hsu, Institute For Research: Middle Eastern Policy, �The United States Must Not Neglect Saudi Arabian Investment,� www.irmep.org, Accessed 07/11/04)
* The Institute reports that 60 percent of that $700 billion � roughly $420 billion, less than half of what Unger �heard� � was actually invested in the United States by the Saudi government.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by zachs:
Debunking of that site: one, two, three, four. five, six, seven, eight.

* �Moore�s film suggests that [President] Bush has close family ties to the bin Laden family � principally through [President] Bush�s father�s relationship with the Carlyle Group, a private investment firm. The president�s father, George H.W. Bush, was a senior adviser to the Carlyle Group�s Asian affiliate until recently; members of the bin Laden family � who own one of Saudi Arabia�s biggest construction firms � had invested $2 million in a Carlyle Group fund. Bush Sr. and the bin Ladens have since severed ties with the Carlyle Group, which in any case has a bipartisan roster of partners, including Bill Clinton�s former SEC chairman Arthur Levitt. The movie quotes author Dan Briody claiming that the Carlyle Group �gained� from September 11 because it owned United Defense, a military contractor. Carlyle Group spokesman Chris Ullman notes that United Defense holds a special distinction among U.S. defense contractors that is not mentioned in Moore�s movie: the firm�s $11 billion Crusader artillery rocket system developed for the U.S. Army is one of the only weapons systems canceled by the Bush administration.� (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, �Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,� http://i2i.org/ Accessed, 07/11/04)
* �There is another famous investor in Carlyle whom Moore does not reveal: George Soros. But the fact that the anti-Bush billionaire [Soros] has invested in Carlyle would detract from Moore�s simplistic conspiracy theory.� (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, �Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,� http://i2i.org/ Accessed, 07/11/04)


* Not revealing relevant facts is dishonest enough. But to paint the Bush Administration as sympathetic and friendly to the Taliban prior to September 11, is not only dishonest, but maliciously so. � Moore shows film of a March 2001 visit to the United States by a Taliban delegation, claiming that the Administration �welcomed� the Taliban official, Sayed Hashemi, �to tour the United States to help improve the image of the Taliban.�
* But the Administration did not welcome the Taliban with open arms. In fact, the State Department rejected the Taliban�s claim that it had complied with U.S. requests to isolate bin Laden.
* To demonstrate even further the Administration�s contempt for the Taliban and its illegitimacy, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher � on the day of the terrorist regime�s visit � said, �We don�t recognize any government in Afghanistan.�


* Moore does more than simply downplay the threat posed to the U.S. by the former Hussein regime in Iraq. He goes so far as to assert that Saddam �never threatened to attack the United States.�
* If by �attack the United States� one interprets this claim to mean that Saddam never threatened to send troops to the United States, then Mr. Moore has a point. � But Saddam Hussein clearly sought to attack the United States within his own sphere of influence, even though he didn�t have the resources to attack U.S. soil from his side of the world:
* On November 15, 1997, �the main propaganda organ for the Saddam regime, the newspaper Babel (which was run by Saddam Hussein�s son Uday), ordered: �American and British interests, embassies, and naval ships in the Arab region should be the targets of military operations and commando attacks by Arab political forces.�� (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, �Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,� http://i2i.org/ Accessed, 07/11/04)
* In addition, �Iraqi forces fired, every day, for 10 years, on the aircraft that patrolled the no-fly zones and staved off further genocide in the north and south of the country,� (Source: New York Times, 12/1/03).
* Saddam Hussein also provided safe haven to terrorists who killed Americans, like Abu Nidal; funded suicide bombers in Israel who certainly killed Americans; and ran the Iraqi police, which plotted to assassinate former President George Bush.

Anyone Want More (MOORE) Lies?

[ebuddy]

Thank you aberdeenwriter. I'm sure you're beginning to see the frustrating side of MacNN. You'll get challenged. Then you'll respond by absolutely lambasting your opponent in the argument with more information than they can process yet half the information available... then...the...silence...is...deafening.

You know you're in trouble when you're a liberal who gets called a liar by Christopher Hitchens.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by zachs:
Debunking of that site: one, two, three, four. five, six, seven, eight.

This lie is pointed out on your linked site #1 or "one"

"Moore deliberately gives the impression that Florida was called for Gore until Fox called it for Bush, and thereafter the other channels copied Fox for no particular reason.

The initial calls of Florida for Gore (from a VNS update) were quickly retracted when it became clear (to VNS, the organisation who originally issued the update in Gores favour at 7.52pm) it was in fact too close to accurately call. Quite a few hours after the retractions when VNS issued a more accurate update saying Bush had taken it Fox were quickest off the mark in reporting it.

Within 4 minutes the other channels had responded to it - they were not following Fox's lead but responding to the VNS report.

Thus it is clear that Moore in fact was being deliberately deceptive."

Want MOORE Lies?

Or do you give up and concede that the film is a dishonest piece of trash?

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
Thank you aberdeenwriter. I'm sure you're beginning to see the frustrating side of MacNN. You'll get challenged. Then you'll respond by absolutely lambasting your opponent in the argument with more information than they can process yet half the information available... then...the...silence...is...deafening.

You know you're in trouble when you're a liberal who gets called a liar by Christopher Hitchens.

Even while slightly under the weather, the fight goes on.

Thanks ebuddy!

Those damn leftists! They're like the moles in an amusement park, "Whack-a-Mole" game!

You bonk em good but the little fxxers pop up somewhere else, ready to get bonked again!

[Atomic Rooster]

Thread title...

Iranian Citizens Trash Fahrenheit 9/11

Who give a sh!t really...what they think.

hmmm...posted by someone with only a few posts...

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Atomic Rooster:
Thread title...

Iranian Citizens Trash Fahrenheit 9/11

Who give a sh!t really...what they think.

hmmm...posted by someone with only a few posts...

You SHOULD!

They love America, they want freedom and peace and hope Pres. Bush doesn't give up.

You go ahead and rest. You've been talking in your sleep.

[itai195]

I'm not surprised that, in comparison to Iran, they think Moore's complaints are minor. Fortunately, as Americans, we have slightly higher expectations of our government than do Iranians living under an oppressive regime.

[Spheric Harlot]

quoth Spliffdaddy:

Since when do Americans care what foreigners think?

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
quoth Spliffdaddy:

I will admit, you make me chuckle, Spheric. Now if we can only get rid of that elitist attitude, we might be able to get along.


EDIT: don't say things you can't take back, and reserve extreme labels for when they're historically accurate.

[CreepingDeth]

Damn. zachs, you could learn something from aberdeen. Post things in shots 3 point burst. Makes it look very long.

Now, I'd like to see what he says about this.

Originally posted by dcolton:
EDIT: don't say things you can't take back, and reserve extreme labels for when they're historically accurate.

What'd he say? Racist, neonazicon, etc?

[dcolton]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
What'd he say? Racist, neonazicon, etc?

I honestly don't remember! It probably was innapropriate considering who I was responding to...but, Vmarks is probably right and I appreciate his effort.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by dcolton:
I honestly don't remember! It probably was innapropriate considering who I was responding to...but, Vmarks is probably right and I appreciate his effort.

Who said it, Harlot or Rooster? I'm confused. Having a bad day.
But I'm thinking Spheric Harlot.

Where's zachs? Does he only link stuff in the night?

[dcolton]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Who said it, Harlot or Rooster? I'm confused. Having a bad day.
But I'm thinking Spheric Harlot.

Where's zachs? Does he only link stuff in the night?

it was something I said. All is fair and fine. Vmarks was right to delete it. I think I called him (spheric) a nazi or something. Either way, I was wrong and am thankful that he deleted it.

[zachs]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
This lie is pointed out on your linked site #1 or "one"

"Moore deliberately gives the impression that Florida was called for Gore until Fox called it for Bush, and thereafter the other channels copied Fox for no particular reason.

The initial calls of Florida for Gore (from a VNS update) were quickly retracted when it became clear (to VNS, the organisation who originally issued the update in Gores favour at 7.52pm) it was in fact too close to accurately call. Quite a few hours after the retractions when VNS issued a more accurate update saying Bush had taken it Fox were quickest off the mark in reporting it.

Within 4 minutes the other channels had responded to it - they were not following Fox's lead but responding to the VNS report.

Thus it is clear that Moore in fact was being deliberately deceptive."

Want MOORE Lies?

Or do you give up and concede that the film is a dishonest piece of trash?

But can you tell whether they were following Fox, or the VNS? No. Because the first channel to report the VNS update, and retract/call FL for Bush was Fox, followed by the other channels.

Nice try, though.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by zachs:
But can you tell whether they were following Fox, or the VNS? No. Because the first channel to report the VNS update, and retract/call FL for Bush was Fox, followed by the other channels.

Nice try, though.

Doesn't make up for the fact that the state SC's decision was absolutely wrong.

But let's ignore that Mr. Links.

[zachs]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Doesn't make up for the fact that the state SC's decision was absolutely wrong.

But let's ignore that Mr. Links.

Mr. Links? 'Cuz providing sources is bad, huh?

[swrate]

Originally posted by zachs:
Golly gee, you're just a regular comedian!

I think he is a skilled actor, playing the President part.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by swrate:
I think he is a skilled actor, playing the President part.

You have underestimated him. Good! That means his 'portrayal' will work on the enemy as well.

[itai195]

Excuse me, I believe the proper term is 'misunderestimate.' We'll let you off the hook this time.