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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > just saw LOTR and want to discuss only one thing. spoilers.

just saw LOTR and want to discuss only one thing. spoilers.
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scaught
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Dec 23, 2002, 09:50 PM
 
what the hell is up with legolas "surfing" that shield down the stairs firing off arrows? was that in the books??
     
BRussell
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Dec 23, 2002, 09:57 PM
 
Yes, page 567, appendix C, of The Silmarillion.
     
Silky Voice of The Gorn
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Dec 23, 2002, 10:04 PM
 
Originally posted by scaught:
what the hell is up with legolas "surfing" that shield down the stairs firing off arrows? was that in the books??
Did it need to be?
     
OwlBoy
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Dec 23, 2002, 10:11 PM
 
Originally posted by BRussell:
Yes, page 567, appendix C, of The Silmarillion.

Bwahahahahha! Wait... you are jokeing right?

-Owl
     
Leia's Right Bun
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Dec 23, 2002, 10:15 PM
 
I thought it was kinda neat. He is HOT!
     
scaught  (op)
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Dec 23, 2002, 10:20 PM
 
Originally posted by OwlBoy:



Bwahahahahha! Wait... you are jokeing right?

-Owl
im wondering that myself.
     
scaught  (op)
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Dec 23, 2002, 10:22 PM
 
Originally posted by Leia's Right Bun:
I thought it was kinda neat. He is HOT!
neat? NEAT??!!

i dont want "neat". i want a bloody fantasy tale with fiery ****ing dragons and power struggles that end with fields filled with corpses. i dont need one of the main characters surfing a ****ing shield down a flight of stairs. unless somehow tolkien wanted that....i cant imagine it to be true.
     
voodoo
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Dec 23, 2002, 10:22 PM
 
Originally posted by scaught:


im wondering that myself.


I read the Silmarillion once.

Ya, Legolas was a great surfer
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
Silky Voice of The Gorn
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Dec 23, 2002, 10:31 PM
 
Originally posted by scaught:


neat? NEAT??!!

i dont want "neat". i want a bloody fantasy tale with fiery ****ing dragons and power struggles that end with fields filled with corpses. i dont need one of the main characters surfing a ****ing shield down a flight of stairs. unless somehow tolkien wanted that....i cant imagine it to be true.
But your ok with dwarf tossing?
     
MikeM33
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Dec 24, 2002, 12:47 AM
 
neat? NEAT??!!

i dont want "neat". i want a bloody fantasy tale with fiery ****ing dragons and power struggles that end with fields filled with corpses.
And sharks with frikkin laser beams attached to thier heads?

MikeM
     
Emotionally Fragile Luke
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Dec 24, 2002, 01:02 AM
 
Originally posted by scaught:


neat? NEAT??!!

i dont want "neat". i want a bloody fantasy tale with fiery ****ing dragons and power struggles that end with fields filled with corpses. i dont need one of the main characters surfing a ****ing shield down a flight of stairs. unless somehow tolkien wanted that....i cant imagine it to be true.
Well, close your eyes for those 3 seconds of the film.
     
scaught  (op)
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Dec 24, 2002, 01:16 AM
 
Originally posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn:


But your ok with dwarf tossing?
erm. well. a dwarf tossing joke is a bit of comic relief. i guess i can accept that more than the shield surfing thing. so is that really in the book? i know i know, read the book yrself scott.
     
scaught  (op)
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Dec 24, 2002, 01:17 AM
 
Originally posted by MikeM33:


And sharks with frikkin laser beams attached to thier heads?

MikeM
no sharks with laser beams.

at least, not in this movie.
     
iNub
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Dec 24, 2002, 01:29 AM
 
Originally posted by scaught:


erm. well. a dwarf tossing joke is a bit of comic relief. i guess i can accept that more than the shield surfing thing. so is that really in the book? i know i know, read the book yrself scott.
Evidence!
     
mchladek
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Dec 24, 2002, 02:30 AM
 
Originally posted by scaught:


erm. well. a dwarf tossing joke is a bit of comic relief. i guess i can accept that more than the shield surfing thing. so is that really in the book? i know i know, read the book yrself scott.
No, it's not in the book. Of course it doesn't say, "And Legolas gracefully walked down the stairs" either I loved how they put the 'bet' going on between Legolas and Gimli about the number of orcs slain. Very good.

I agree the shield surfing did look a little corny but when he flung himself around that horse (OK, his digital double flung himself around the horse) ... DAMN!
     
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Dec 24, 2002, 02:59 AM
 
Originally posted by mchladek:


No, it's not in the book. Of course it doesn't say, "And Legolas gracefully walked down the stairs" either I loved how they put the 'bet' going on between Legolas and Gimli about the number of orcs slain. Very good.

I agree the shield surfing did look a little corny but when he flung himself around that horse (OK, his digital double flung himself around the horse) ... DAMN!
i agree that horse slinging scene was totally awesome (yeah i know i sound like something from bill n teds adventure). But yeah totally unexpected, and great.
     
Emotionally Fragile Luke
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Dec 24, 2002, 03:01 AM
 
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:


i agree that horse slinging scene was totally awesome.
It was awesome but it seemed to go against the physics we all know and love.
     
motoyen
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Dec 24, 2002, 03:03 AM
 
I think Peter Jackson is trying to get across how nimble and agile the elves are as described in great detail in the book. Just like the first movie when Legolas was walking on the snow.
     
BlackGriffen
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Dec 24, 2002, 03:21 AM
 
Originally posted by Emotionally Fragile Luke:


It was awesome but it seemed to go against the physics we all know and love.
Let's see: an imaginary character from an imaginary race that is fantastically nimble violates the real laws of physics in a fantasy world with dragons, balrogs, wizards, and ents? If you want to talk about violating the laws of physics, you're stepping over hundred dollar bills to pick up dimes .

But I guess that getting the little things is part of how the whole "willing suspension of disbelief" thing works...

My personal take: any dude light or nimble enough to not leave footprints in the snow (he was walking across the surface of the snow in FOTR), and strong enough to fire a long bow could probably do some pretty stunning acrobatics.

Just wait until you see the elvish circus they're adding to the third movie .

BlackGriffen
     
The Dude
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Dec 24, 2002, 07:10 AM
 
Originally posted by Leia's Right Bun:
I thought it was kinda neat. He is HOT!
I think I can hear him screaming in horror right now.
     
scottiB
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Dec 24, 2002, 09:50 AM
 
My personal take: any dude light or nimble enough to not leave footprints in the snow (he was walking across the surface of the snow in FOTR), and strong enough to fire a long bow could probably do some pretty stunning acrobatics.
He did walk across the chain to the cave troll's back in FOTR. Thing is, though, why weren't all the other elves at Helm's Deep equally as dynamic and acrobatic? Was Legolas a supreme Elf warrior?

Eh, I loved the flick--and any movie can be over analyzed. I gotsta go Xmas shopping.
     
nonhuman
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Dec 24, 2002, 09:57 AM
 
Originally posted by motoyen:
I think Peter Jackson is trying to get across how nimble and agile the elves are as described in great detail in the book. Just like the first movie when Legolas was walking on the snow.
He walked on the snow like that in the book as well. It's part of being an elf they're very 'light of foot.'
     
maxelson
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Dec 24, 2002, 10:59 AM
 
Had this conversation with the wife after we tag teamed the movie (hard to get a baby sitter in the middle of the week).

I have different expectations about movie adaptations. There are lots of reasons a movie director will take liberties with a story. Length, plot details, dramatically interesting points, adding flash to scenes. Lots more than I can come up with now.
I am pretty forgiving of it as long as it does not impede a story line or BECOME the story line.
I think the story was served well. He did not hit every TT story line, nor could he. The movie would've been 5 hours long. I don't mind the little added in bits of dialogue- again, as long as they were not out of character. I took issue with Faramir's character- he is developing in a very different way to this point- but I will reserve final judgement until I see the third flick. Maybe Jackson will tie it all up.
As for the action stuff, i.e the surfing- well, I didn't mind. It goes to the nimbleness of the character.

Stuff I had trouble with: The elves showing up at Helms Deep. I see WHY they did it, I'm just not sure it was necessary.

The final decision of the ents- they way they finally decided to go to war. Again, I see WHY they did it, I don't think they needed to do it that way. I am a bit more forgiving on this because I think it was most likely a time saving device. In that one moment, you get the reason they war, a character advancement for Pip, the relationship of the Ents to Saruman and the trees.

Sam's hokey monologue at the end. Bleh.

The decision to end where he did did not surprise me. He wants to save some tasty bits for the last film and I KNOW he wants to get as much life out of Gollum as he can. I would. Gollum is amazing. Love those little brain fights he has with himself. Gollum alone was worth the three hours of my life.

I think Jackson played (deliberately) with fire on this. I mean, this is a story read by millions. There are a LOT of purists out there who will take issue with the liberties Jackson admits to taking. Well, I cannot imagine doing what he did to begin with. The devil is TOTALLY in the details and folks will call him on it. He is counting on the forgiveness and understanding. I think he'll get it. Unless he totally screws up The RotK.
As long as he does well in the last one.
All in all, I liked it a lot. Liked FotR better, but that's as may be.

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scaught  (op)
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Dec 24, 2002, 12:08 PM
 
Originally posted by mchladek:


No, it's not in the book. Of course it doesn't say, "And Legolas gracefully walked down the stairs" either I loved how they put the 'bet' going on between Legolas and Gimli about the number of orcs slain. Very good.

I agree the shield surfing did look a little corny but when he flung himself around that horse (OK, his digital double flung himself around the horse) ... DAMN!
haha. thanks. i can accept the "literary gratuities", but the shield surfing was a bit much. ill just close my eyes for 3 seconds next time i watch it.

ya. the horse part was a bit strange too, if only for the reason that he went up the hard way in the middle of the battle with a damned dwarf behind the reins? seemed he would have gotten up on the horse as quickly and safely as possible. still damned cool though

i love the movie, btw.
     
maxelson
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Dec 24, 2002, 12:10 PM
 
Me too. I'll see it again. Third time, I may actually have to pay for it!

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scaught  (op)
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Dec 24, 2002, 12:20 PM
 
Originally posted by maxelson:
Me too. I'll see it again. Third time, I may actually have to pay for it!
whasthis?

you got some friend at the theatre sneaking you in the back door? i didnt figure a mature man like yrself to be playing these pranks
     
maxelson
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Dec 24, 2002, 12:23 PM
 
Originally posted by scaught:


whasthis?

you got some friend at the theatre sneaking you in the back door? i didnt figure a mature man like yrself to be playing these pranks
Muh- chuuuure. Sure!
Naw. Last year at LoTR, we saw a HORRIBLE screening. unsynced sound, jittery pic, etc. We complained and got 4 free passes. Also, we bought the super supremo deluxe edition of the DVD (with the 5 DVDs, bookends, etc). In it was a free pass to the movie.
Alas, I have given up on such exit door tricks in my olde age.

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Silky Voice of The Gorn
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Dec 24, 2002, 01:40 PM
 
I had no problem with shield surfacing; in fact, I kinna chuckled, as it seemed a mild homage to classic swashbuckling films. Not only that, but the scene where Frodo, Sam and Gollum are looking down at the Mordor gate at the soldiers...it was near identical to the same scene in The Wizard of Oz
     
Emotionally Fragile Luke
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Dec 24, 2002, 01:54 PM
 
Originally posted by The Dude:


I think I can hear him screaming in horror right now.
Ha ha ha ha! I get it! It is because if he knew I thought he was hot he would be scared right!

Comedic genius at work here people.
     
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Dec 24, 2002, 04:54 PM
 
Originally posted by Emotionally Fragile Luke:
Ha ha ha ha! I get it! It is because if he knew I thought he was hot he would be scared right!

Comedic genius at work here people.
It's funny cause it's true.
     
OwlBoy
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Dec 24, 2002, 05:28 PM
 
Originally posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn:
I had no problem with shield surfacing; in fact, I kinna chuckled, as it seemed a mild homage to classic swashbuckling films. Not only that, but the scene where Frodo, Sam and Gollum are looking down at the Mordor gate at the soldiers...it was near identical to the same scene in The Wizard of Oz
Those are some sweet cloaks they have

Later in the movie they mention "Elven cloaks will not hide you" or something, so they are magical?

-Owl
     
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Dec 24, 2002, 06:00 PM
 
Originally posted by The Dude:
It's funny cause it's true.
Ha ha ha! Just like they say on the Simpsons! Ha ha ha ha! You kill me!
     
SirCastor
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Dec 25, 2002, 01:52 AM
 
I had no problem with it. I had read something about it and was very discouraged. It's not like he did any tricks with it. He spent all of 3 seconds going down the stair case.

It was cool in a "This will get me down the Stairs in a quick fashion"

I agree that it was a demonstration of Elven ability which is (for lack of a better term) superhuman. While not entirely necessary, I don't feel it was out of place.

We don't have any reason to believe the rest of the Elves at Helm's Deep were not as agile, we just didn't see it. When you make a film you have to frame your characters, not so much your background. I think any Elf is pretty good at such things, but they were still facing Thousands upon Thousands of Uruk-Hai. No one can stand up to that.
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Dec 25, 2002, 03:02 AM
 
They cut the love scene between Gimli and Legolas out.

"Your supple lips are but the perfect height, master dwarf. How'd you like to mine my Moria?"

Thank, thank you -- I'll be here all week.
     
cheerios
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Dec 25, 2002, 03:43 AM
 
Originally posted by OwlBoy:
Those are some sweet cloaks they have

Later in the movie they mention "Elven cloaks will not hide you" or something, so they are magical?

-Owl
ya, they glossed over that in the first movie, I think. when they were in either rivendel or the other elf place, they were given elven cloaks and brooches. the green leaves. the cloaks blend in w/ their surroundings, i forget what the pins power was. Of course, I may be confused. wouldn't be the first time.
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Dec 25, 2002, 04:13 AM
 
Originally posted by The Dude:
I think I can hear him screaming in horror right now.
laff
     
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Dec 25, 2002, 05:04 AM
 
Originally posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn:
Not only that, but the scene where Frodo, Sam and Gollum are looking down at the Mordor gate at the soldiers...it was near identical to the same scene in The Wizard of Oz
LOL!! That was the first thing I thought when I saw it.
     
cheerios
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Dec 25, 2002, 05:06 AM
 
Originally posted by Leia's Right Bun:
I thought it was kinda neat. He is HOT!
btw: ARagorn was hotter.
The short shall inherit the earth. Just you wait. You won't see us coming. We'll pop out from under tables, beds, and closets in hordes. So you're tall, huh? You won't be so tall when I chew off your ankles. Mofo
     
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Dec 25, 2002, 06:17 AM
 
Originally posted by Emotionally Fragile Luke:
You kill me!
I wish.
     
MikeM33
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Dec 25, 2002, 06:43 AM
 
Since I've never read the books and have summarily decided not to see it in theaters (mostly because it's over 3 hrs long). How the F-ck does Ian McKellans characters come back?!? They show Gandalf in the previews for The Two Towers, but having seen the first one I know he got killed.

WTF?!?

MikeM
     
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Dec 25, 2002, 10:50 AM
 
Originally posted by MikeM33:
[BThey show Gandalf in the previews for The Two Towers, but having seen the first one I know he got killed.

WTF?!?

MikeM [/B]
He came back from the dead, basically. That is why he is Gandalf the White and he is much more powerful then he was when he was Gandalf the Grey.
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Dec 25, 2002, 10:35 PM
 
Originally posted by crazycylon:
He came back from the dead, basically. That is why he is Gandalf the White and he is much more powerful then he was when he was Gandalf the Grey.
Errr... close... he's imortal, in FOTR there was something about him being several hundred years old, and the "powers that be" told him his task or mission was not complete, so back he came.

Now, shield surfing... come on... some of you have problems with this yet have no problem with walking trees! LOL! okay it did seem a bit off.

Since were talking about Elves... if they are imortal (and it's clear in the movie(s), they are) why are they over run during the attack, why didn't they just stand on the wall and shoot the crap out of everything?

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Dec 26, 2002, 12:25 AM
 
Actually werent the Uruk Hai (orcs) described as elves that died a horrible death in FOTR?
     
Silky Voice of The Gorn
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Dec 26, 2002, 12:28 AM
 
Originally posted by MikeM33:
Since I've never read the books and have summarily decided not to see it in theaters (mostly because it's over 3 hrs long). How the F-ck does Ian McKellans characters come back?!? They show Gandalf in the previews for The Two Towers, but having seen the first one I know he got killed.

WTF?!?

MikeM
OK- Stop this thread.

First of all, the film is 179 minutes long- exactly 3hrs, essentially. Second, your reason for not seeing it in the theater is why, because you can't sit still for 3hrs? What, you need to be able to pause, take a dump and stuff yer face to enjoy a movie?

I don't mean to go off on a rant here, but if you don't have the time or patience to go see the film then you shouldn't really be caring about plot points, hmm?
     
cheerios
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Dec 26, 2002, 01:27 AM
 
Originally posted by CyberGreg:

Since were talking about Elves... if they are imortal (and it's clear in the movie(s), they are) why are they over run during the attack, why didn't they just stand on the wall and shoot the crap out of everything?

immortal in the same way vampires are. they never age. But if you cut them, they bleed. If you chop off their head, they die.
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Dec 26, 2002, 01:55 AM
 
Originally posted by KaptainKaya:
Actually werent the Uruk Hai (orcs) described as elves that died a horrible death in FOTR?

Sort of. Sauruman explains that the first Orcs came from Elves who had been taken by dark forces and tortured and twisted into what Orcs are. The Uruk-Hai are a better breed of Orc so-to-speak. They can be active during the day (Orcs don't like the light) and they're bigger/meaner.

There's an excellent site called "The Encyclopedia of Arda"

which has all kinds of information that you want to know regarding LOTR. It answers most of my questions.
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Dec 26, 2002, 08:53 AM
 
Originally posted by OwlBoy:
Those are some sweet cloaks they have

Later in the movie they mention "Elven cloaks will not hide you" or something, so they are magical?

-Owl

Ooop. SOMEONE didn't read the book...

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Dec 26, 2002, 08:59 AM
 
Originally posted by scaught:
what the hell is up with legolas "surfing" that shield down the stairs firing off arrows? was that in the books??
no, i'm sure it wasn't. it seemed so out of place, and i laughed my a$$ off when i saw it.

a small f�ck up in an otherwise very entertaining movie.

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Dec 26, 2002, 09:09 AM
 
Couple of things I gotta point out here:

Elves and Maia (Gandalf, Sauruman) are immortal unless slain. Gandalf, having gone back to the Valar (gods who sent the Maia to contest Sauron) told em about Sauruman. They therefore put him in the place where Sauruman should be.

Elves are noted in the book as being really quick, agile and light. Its hard to say if they were actually better in battle than dwarves or men, but the fact that elves tried not to fight on an open field says something.

The cloaks were made out of a particular material in a particular way so as to camuflage the wearer. For elves this was the norm so they didn't see them as magic. The brooches they got were just gems, no power at all.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but people say that elves were at the battle of helms deep. It also seems that Thjoden sent his people to safety there. Both are of course not in the book. Like why would you send your people closer to the enemy???
-"I don't believe in God. "
"That doesn't matter. He believes in you."

-"I'm not agnostic. Just nonpartisan. Theological Switzerland, that's me."
     
Xtopolop
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Dec 26, 2002, 09:48 AM
 
Regarding the elves, they are immortal in the sense that they do not suffer from old age or from illness. They can, however be slain in battle.

As for the shield surfing incident, I thought it was much more fitting than the way Legolas mounted the horse in the warg battle. I really disliked that part, even though half the audience applauded at this point.

Ooh, the elven cloaks from Lothl�rien! One part that really bugged me was when the Rohirim came riding past Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli and they were crammed in a small crevasse. In the books I was pretty sure they merely covered themselves with their cloaks and waited until the horses were nearly upon them before they called out. If Frodo used his cloak to hide from the Easterlings (?), then why didn't the other three members of the fellowship also conceal themselves with their cloaks? Especially since they actually did that in the book, and Frodo/Sam's fall down the rock face did NOT happen in the book.

A lot of the material PJ added to the film didn't quite sit right with me, especially the played up love story with Aragorn and Arwen. While I absolutely loved the film, I more or less kept a running tally of all the points in which the film deviated from the book.

Now... off to Hawaii for a week.
     
 
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