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Avenir · Jul 27, 2003, 06:37 PM

I have a couple of tattoos already and really want to get another one, only this time itd be in a bit more visible place... namely, on the inside of my right forearm. The design is simple and relatively small... so much that you wont be able to see it if I have my arms on my side, am typing, drafting, etc. And it's non offensive, just a medical/health related symbol, no "death" or bleeding heart tattoos ala Starship Troopers.

However, concern has been raised over how future employers will react to it. I'm 21 and hoping that my skill as an architect will get me a job, not my appearance, and I can always wear long sleeves to interviews (but afterwards I dunno?), but it's still an issue.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Any problems with tattoos and jobs? Just wondering how to go about this.

Apple Pro Underwear · Jul 27, 2003, 07:14 PM

i just want to support you on your tattoo because wherever you end up it will be because they accept you as what your through and through. leading to a better happier employment.

i completely disagree of you getting a tattoo on such a prominent place though. geez...does the tattoo have significant importance to your life or is it something you want because it look cool?

Kilbey · Jul 27, 2003, 07:17 PM

My opinion:

I do not like to see tattoos in the business workplace. I work in a factory with a large office attatched to it. There is only one person with visible tattoos in the office department, but dozens on the factory floor. The guy with visible tatoos (he is full-sleeved on both arms) is an older guy on the lower rungs of the company ladder.

As an architech you will have contact with clients daily. If you have reservations getting visible tattoos, think about what a person who will never get tattoos let alone visible ones will think when dealing with a person who is designing their house/building.

To sum it up, I say don't do it. Keep the tattoos at least above t-shirt sleeve length and below the collar.

Kilbey · Jul 27, 2003, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
i just want to support you on your tattoo because wherever you end up it will be because they accept you as what your through and through. leading to a better happier employment.

Like this guy?

http://www.strangecosmos.com/view.adp?picture_id=8575

Apple Pro Underwear · Jul 27, 2003, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Like this guy?

http://www.strangecosmos.com/view.adp?picture_id=8575

yeah. his job is to sell tickets right?

well when he first got it i remember searching for it for like 10 minutes before finally seeing a pic on espn. it's all about feeding his psycho image and selling tickets for suckers to pay for pay per views.

Avenir · Jul 27, 2003, 07:27 PM

i just want to support you on your tattoo because wherever you end up it will be because they accept you as what your through and through. leading to a better happier employment.

i completely disagree of you getting a tattoo on such a prominent place though. geez...does the tattoo have significant importance to your life or is it something you want because it look cool?

Thanks for the support, those are my thoughts as well. As for the location, the design is definately something that ive put a lot of thought into getting and has great meaning to me. Im getting it largely on my arm because I think thats where the design will look its best (its a long, more slender one)... its not a full sleeve by any means. Cool has nothing to do with it, I definitely wouldnt do that.

I do not like to see tatoos in the business workplace. I work in a factory with a large office attatched to it. There is only one person with visible tatoos in the office department, but dozens on the factory floor. The guy with visible tatoos (he is full-sleeved on both arms) is an older guy on the lower rungs of the company ladder.

As an architech you will have contact with clients daily. If you have reservations getting visible tatoos, think about what a person who will never get tatoos let alone visible ones will think when dealing with a person who is designing their house/building.

To sum it up, I say don't do it. Keep the tatoos at least above t-shirt sleeve length and below the collar.

Thats about what i was worried about... the design is small and wouldnt be always visible but it'd still be seen a bit. I personally have no reservations or dislikes of visible tattoos (if done tastefully... mine will be, and it wont be even close to full sleeve). Your comments are dead-on what I was thinking about as well...

Amyone have or heard of any bad experiences about losing jobs or clients over this sort of thing?

Avenir · Jul 27, 2003, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Like this guy?

http://www.strangecosmos.com/view.adp?picture_id=8575

heh heh, its funny that you brought that up... thats the first thing that my mom said whenn I told her of the new design

"umm no mom, a little more subtle"

Dogma · Jul 27, 2003, 08:02 PM

Yeah, it shouldn't be a problem, but let's face it, (after hearing NASCAR guy) it's gonna be a problem.

Get a tattoo anywhere you want, as long as you can cover it with some form of clothing. Forearm is cool as long as you're happy wearing long sleeve shirts. (And if it's style tips you're after - wearing anything but long sleeved shirts with a suit is wrong)

I've started wearing 'smart' clothing to work...

I wear whatever's the comfiest - which is usually trainers, baggies, t-shirt or jumper. It's "smart" because I'm comforatble all day long and know that suits can be uncomfortable. That, and I'm not really doing anything just now - the odd location security stuff for TV and film, but most stuff is done on studio sets now, so there's another industry going to hell...

Avenir · Jul 27, 2003, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Dogma:
Yeah, it shouldn't be a problem, but let's face it, (after hearing NASCAR guy) it's gonna be a problem.

Get a tattoo anywhere you want, as long as you can cover it with some form of clothing. Forearm is cool as long as you're happy wearing long sleeve shirts. (And if it's style tips you're after - wearing anything but long sleeved shirts with a suit is wrong)

I've started wearing 'smart' clothing to work...

I wear whatever's the comfiest - which is usually trainers, baggies, t-shirt or jumper. It's "smart" because I'm comforatble all day long and know that suits can be uncomfortable. That, and I'm not really doing anything just now - the odd location security stuff for TV and film, but most stuff is done on studio sets now, so there's another industry going to hell...

where I live and work (summers) now is hotter-than-hell-itself Hawaii, but at school its cooler and i can survive cavering it up. add to that that I probably wont be able to afford hawaii after college, I should make it ok with the sleeves, or heck, an ace bandage when meeting clients. Suits I like to wear, and yes, with long sleeves

MacGorilla · Jul 27, 2003, 08:32 PM

While I am supportive of the idea of personal expression, as a manager in a business, I would not hire anyone with visible tattoos or body peircing (except ears) simply because the corporate culture tends to be conservative and I wouldn't want a salesperson showing up in my office with a nose ring.

In the future such attitudes may change but for now, I would think in a conservative dress fashion.

Dogma · Jul 27, 2003, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
While I am supportive of the idea of personal expression, as a manager in a business, I would not hire anyone with visible tattoos or body peircing (except ears) simply because the corporate culture tends to be conservative and I wouldn't want a salesperson showing up in my office with a nose ring.

In the future such attitudes may change but for now, I would think in a conservative dress fashion.

And I think you should be able to sue the ass off anyone that does that if they can't think of a reasonable safety issue why they should not wear body jewellery. As it's illegal to tell a seikh that they cannot wear a turban or some asian women have pierced noses, having facial piercings other than ears can (and is) be part of someones culture. It may not be a religion, but maybe if we made that one of the laws in the Jedi rulebook it would get passed. (if anyone doesn't know - when the census goes round, you should put as your religion "Jedi" - enough people do it and they HAVE to recognise it and it's belief system - hopefully we'll get some great new excuses with it as well)

Kilbey · Jul 27, 2003, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by Dogma:
And I think you should be able to sue the ass off anyone that does that if they can't think of a reasonable safety issue why they should not wear body jewellery. As it's illegal to tell a seikh that they cannot wear a turban or some asian women have pierced noses, having facial piercings other than ears can (and is) be part of someones culture. It may not be a religion, but maybe if we made that one of the laws in the Jedi rulebook it would get passed. (if anyone doesn't know - when the census goes round, you should put as your religion "Jedi" - enough people do it and they HAVE to recognise it and it's belief system - hopefully we'll get some great new excuses with it as well)

As long as it's not medical or religious you can discriminate due to appearance. Perfectly legal as I understand it. Of course, people sue over just about anything these days ... and I think that is sad.

Wiskedjak · Jul 27, 2003, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by Avenir:
However, concern has been raised over how future employers will react to it ... Any problems with tattoos and jobs? Just wondering how to go about this.

If you even have to ask the question, then there probably are problems. If you truly want the tattoo and believe that your skills outweigh your appearance, then you wouldn't even consider asking the question.

Avenir · Jul 27, 2003, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
If you even have to ask the question, then there probably are problems.

yes, thats true, I am aware that there are problems... I just dont have enough experience to know how severe

If you truly want the tattoo and believe that your skills outweigh your appearance, then you wouldn't even consider asking the question.

I do believe that my skills do, and will after graduating, outweigh my appearance, but if there are places, and a lot of them, that will still be reluctant to hire a tattooed individual, then its still something to consider. Right now I am still heavily leaning towards getting it done, because I dont think the risk, though present, is worth not doing it.

As for above, I think long sleeves would be my alternative to bringing a lawsuit

Avenir · Jul 27, 2003, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by Kilbey:
As long as it's not medical or religious you can discriminate due to appearance. Perfectly legal as I understand it. Of course, people sue over just about anything these days ... and I think that is sad.

really? I have no experience in that, but wow, someone could get ditched just for being ugly? if the employer so wished it?

Apple Pro Underwear · Jul 27, 2003, 11:25 PM

avenir...

if i got a tatoo when i was 21... i have changed so much since then that i am positive that i would not be as happy with it anymore. don't you think you might want to save this forearm tattoo as a after graduation gift to yourself? i mean this is serious real estate on your body.

just talking about tatoos...i'm thinking about one that is small and very personal to me that is very conservative yet very expressive on the side of my torso. i am 23 now. yet i am willing to wait a year or so now that i know where and what i want just to mull it over.

Wiskedjak · Jul 27, 2003, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by Avenir:
yes, thats true, I am aware that there are problems... I just dont have enough experience to know how severe

I'm not saying that there are problems, only that if you believe there may be problems, there likely will be.

I do believe that my skills do, and will after graduating, outweigh my appearance, but if there are places, and a lot of them, that will still be reluctant to hire a tattooed individual, then its still something to consider. Right now I am still heavily leaning towards getting it done, because I don�t think the risk, though present, is worth not doing it

Then get the tattoo. Do you want to work for someone who will look at your tattoos before your portfolio? You will face many moral and ethical dilemmas in your career; this is the first. If you would even consider not getting the tattoo in order to increase your chances at getting a job, then you obviously didn�t feel too strongly about the tattoo and shouldn't get it in the first place.

Personally, if I really wanted a tattoo (which I don't, those things are gross!), I would get it and say "screw you" to anyone who wouldn't hire me because of what I choose to do to my body, especially since I'm good enough to get a job at some place that doesn't care about such trivial things as appearance.

DeathMan · Jul 27, 2003, 11:47 PM

It seems to me that it would close doors. It would change the way other people look at you. As a draftsman, no problem. But if you want to work with clients, you'd better have some really impressive skills to get them to overlook something like that. Its not that fact that you have a tatoo that will bother them. Its the fact that you have a visable tatoo.

People who have visible tatoos strike me as people who just aren't thinking ahead. How can you know that you'll want that there forever? It blows my mind. I've never even considered getting one. If I did, though, I'd get it somewhere non-visable, or at least usually covered like on my calf or something.

If you're confident in your skills, though, go for it.

DigitalEl · Jul 28, 2003, 02:29 AM

I think part of it also depends on where you live. If you're in a more freewheeling city, like San Francisco or maybe Seattle, you can get away with more than if you live in some old world, rust belt place.

My opinions on tattoos would offend people, but I can't imagine it wouldn't be an issue. It's such a competitive world nowadays. Why give yourself any disadvantage whatsoever?

On the other hand, would you want to work for someone who wouldn't hire you because of a tattoo? If you're really talented, maybe the tatoo would help you narrow down potential employers. Maybe you're good enough to demand that your workplace is young and hip enough to deal with it.

Lastly, even a young, hip place may end up designing a building for a new Catholic hospital or get the Ronald McDonald House contract. Interacting with conservative clients is likely to be a problem no matter who you work for.

Superchicken · Jul 28, 2003, 03:48 AM

Tatoos may be expression, but in the world you're going into you're tottaly screwing yourself if you get this done. You say I can hide it with a long shirt. OK what happens you get water all over you or you need to roll up your sleves, what if you have a client that suggests you come over and lounge by a pool?
There are all kinds of things where you may at LEAST need a short sleeve, and unless you're fat people will think you're very weird for even wearing a short sleeved shirt at certain things.

Ultimately the idea is not a very good one. You probably really wanna do it, but right now if you have to ask about it, you're probably more looking for someone to show you objectively why it's not a good idea

Mastrap · Jul 28, 2003, 04:12 AM

It will lock doors and it will keep you from exploring all of your potential professional avenues.
Your alternative is of course to leave the mainstream behind and work in markets outside the corporate sector. I suspect that in the green or environmental industries your tattoo could be seen as an asset as you'd be surrounded by people who would feel sympathetic to your values, or even share them.

I have tattoos myself, but all in places easily covered up, shoulder and upper arm. Putting a tattoo on your forearm is projecting a certain image of yourself that I can see a fair few people being highly uncomfortable with.

IceEnclosure · Jul 28, 2003, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Tatoos may be expression, but in the world you're going into you're tottaly screwing yourself if you get this done. You say I can hide it with a long shirt. OK what happens you get water all over you or you need to roll up your sleves, what if you have a client that suggests you come over and lounge by a pool?
There are all kinds of things where you may at LEAST need a short sleeve, and unless you're fat people will think you're very weird for even wearing a short sleeved shirt at certain things.

Ultimately the idea is not a very good one. You probably really wanna do it, but right now if you have to ask about it, you're probably more looking for someone to show you objectively why it's not a good idea

he's asking about it at MacNN, where we all ask about all sorts of crap.

Avenir, I say go for it.. like some have said, wear a long sleeve shirt... if you're there for a while, and show your worth, you can then move down to a short sleeve shirt later on.. Someone's got beef with the tattoo?? show them your portfolio, AND your belief in your tattoo.. it's 2003... they should understand.. and if your work is strong enough, a tattoo is not only NOT a hindrance, but a PLUS, as it shows your individuality.

get it. no regrets.

later man.

drew

lemondrop · Jul 28, 2003, 05:08 AM

I have a Hammer and Sickle on my left forearm on the inside(don't ask). And lots of others on my arms. Wear dark long sleeve shirts and I doubt anyone would notice. Then slowly roll up your sleeves. If you get **** un-roll them. Personally, I would want my architect to have tats.

Shaddim · Jul 28, 2003, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Avenir:
I have a couple of tattoos already and really want to get another one, only this time itd be in a bit more visible place... namely, on the inside of my right forearm. The design is simple and relatively small... so much that you wont be able to see it if I have my arms on my side, am typing, drafting, etc. And it's non offensive, just a medical/health related symbol, no "death" or bleeding heart tattoos ala Starship Troopers.

However, concern has been raised over how future employers will react to it. I'm 21 and hoping that my skill as an architect will get me a job, not my appearance, and I can always wear long sleeves to interviews (but afterwards I dunno?), but it's still an issue.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Any problems with tattoos and jobs? Just wondering how to go about this.

I've had the same thoughts. I have several tatoos, all of a religious/spiritual nature and I plan on getting many more. However, none of mine are in visible places that would conflict with an interview or work. They're all covered when I wear pants and a short sleeved shirt.

I considered getting a couple small tatoos on the inner part of my forearms, until I saw the difficulty a past girlfriend had with interviews and new jobs. She works in the medical field in recordkeeping and she would either get passed over for a job or she would be released after a few months due to "lack of work". Ironically, her tatoos are also related to the medical field, in a sense. One is a caduceus on the inside of one forearm, and the other is an ankh which is in the same place on the other arm.

So, after much thought, I passed on the idea of getting a tat that low on my arm and instead decided to get those particular pieces on the lower part of my legs above my ankles. They're still visible when I wear shorts, but don't cause complications with work.

That's just my experience (I'm 34). Good luck with whatever you choose. Remember, you're the one who has to live with it.

daimoni · 01:03 AM

.

daimoni · 01:04 AM

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scottiB · Jul 28, 2003, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by daimoni:
However, it is 2003, and tattoo's are so retro early-90's. All of the so-called individuals (many of whom are my friends) who went tribal/post human back then don't exactly look very individual these days. Heh.

Just food for thought.

Heh. That description could apply to me, somewhat (not tribal inks). I'm 36 and got tattoed a few times up till 30. I may get another when I'm 40 for mid-life crisis's sake.

Mine are on my bicep and upper-arms and are easily covered, anticipating a time when they might be frowned upon.

I agree with Mastrap's sentiments.

Avenir · Jul 28, 2003, 06:49 PM

Hmmmmmm so much to ponder

Thank you all for the comments, I do appreciate the information.

I actually had a chance to talk with the principal architect at my firm today. He said that he'd still have hired me for the job I'm currently at, tattoo or not. Personally he doesn't like them, but he wouldn't make a hiring deciscion based on that. Though he did say that at client meetings and presentations he would have asked me to wear long sleeves, not for him but for the strangers we'd be working with. He said he knows both architects that would be ok with it, but also those that might be more negative than he would.

I still haven't made up my mind just yet. I feel very strongly about the design I'm getting and I will, no matter what, get it. Having it visible is part of my wish, but just having it as an ever present reminder of what it stands for is most important... even if that means sliding it up under the sleeve.

more comments are definitely still welcome, I'll of course post when I get it done

kmkkid · Jul 28, 2003, 07:47 PM

I have an eyebrow ring, and a full legband tattoo, both fully visable. I havent met any discrimination yet, whether it be office interviews, factory work or just day to day activities. I regret it now of course (band symbol

) and you might too someday. But I think workplace's are really easing up on appearance discrimination. As long as you're clean and tidy there shouldnt be any problems unless it's a 'negative' tattoo, which you already said it wasnt. Just keep it covered during the interview, and once hired if they fire you because of that alone, you could have grounds for a lawsuit. But like the others have said, if you're worried about it, you prolly shouldnt go through with it.

Chris

malvolio · Jul 28, 2003, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by Avenir:
really? I have no experience in that, but wow, someone could get ditched just for being ugly? if the employer so wished it?

Sure.
Just imagine for a moment that famous feminist Andrea Dworkin got a job at Hooters:

Avenir · Jul 28, 2003, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by malvolio:
Sure.
Just imagine for a moment that famous feminist Andrea Dworkin got a job at Hooters:

hahaha awesome... hmmm more to think about

Avenir · Jul 31, 2003, 03:14 PM

Alrighty... got it done on the forearm and I am really happy with it... so far my current boss seems ok with it, and the coworkers like it. While talking to the artist who did it last night, after hed finished, he goes... "hell, with theater makeup these days, you won't even need to wear long sleeves, just patch it over and no one will know." Never thought about that...

Anyway, thanks again to all for the comments and the help... I cant wait until the next design